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Next: creating from "The Rogue Vade-Mecum" - ..
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Since: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 287
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:43 am
Post subject: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot
Archived from groups: rec>games>roguelike>nethack (more info?)
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Nethack, as is standard for roguelikes, is a game about making due
with what the RNG gives you. But over time, more and more guaranteed
loot has been added to the game. Sokoban always grants either a bag
of holding or an amulet of reflection. Mineend grants a luckstone.
Medusa has a good chance of a shield of reflection or boots of water
walking. Vlad's Tower has a few always-generated items. The quests
also have their own always-present stuffs.
The stuff that's there should be a reward for the player, that much is
certain. I am not suggesting changing that. What I am suggesting is
changing the reward to something that would be randomly selected from
a list of good stuff, to vary the equipment that players proceeding
through the game have.
Ideally, the equipment should nearly always be useful to a player who
has not yet received any wishes. Of course there would be cases where
a player already has satisfied the need the generated item addresses,
but that can already happen.
The list of items I've come up with, provided for suggestions and
comments, is:
shield of reflection
scroll of genocide
1d3 blessed scrolls of identify (a knowledgeable player seeing more
than one scroll basically now knows what scrolls of identify are,
itself useful knowledge)
speed boots
jumping boots
boots of water walking
boots of levitation
ring of levitation
ring of conflict
ring of regeneration
ring of poison resistance
wand of death
wand of cancellation
gauntlets of power
gauntlets of dexterity
luckstone
bag of holding
magic marker
horn of plenty
1d3+1 dilithium crystals (kind of a booby prize, but potentially
useful if gold becomes valuable again)
spellbook of identify
spellbook of magic mapping (always useful for Genhennom)
random dragon scales
amulet of reflection
amulet of life saving
helm of brilliance
blessed unicorn horn
cloak of magic resistance
cloak of displacement
hawaiian shirt
1d3+1 tins of spinach
a random artifact
In addition to this item, in place of the usual guarenteed item, I'd
also suggest putting a 10% chance of an un-ID'd plastic Amulet of
Yendor. Because we don't want to be -too- nice....
I don't pretend the idea is perfect, but I'd like to hear your
thoughts or objections. A good brainstorm on this would be useful.
- John H. |
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Since: Oct 15, 2007
Posts: 53
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:29 pm
Post subject: Re: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>roguelike>nethack, others (more info?)
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John H. wrote:
> Nethack, as is standard for roguelikes, is a game
> about making due
You want "making do" there.
"Making due" would mean something like "making
a loan payment due".
> with what the RNG gives you. But over time, more
> and more guaranteed loot has been added to the
> game. Sokoban always grants either a bag of
> holding or an amulet of reflection. Mineend
> grants a luckstone. Medusa has a good chance of a
> shield of reflection or boots of water walking.
> Vlad's Tower has a few always-generated items.
> The quests also have their own always-present
> stuffs.
> The stuff that's there should be a reward for the
> player, that much is certain. I am not suggesting
> changing that. What I am suggesting is changing
> the reward to something that would be randomly
> selected from a list of good stuff, to vary the
> equipment that players proceeding through the game
> have.
[snip]
> I don't pretend the idea is perfect, but I'd like
> to hear your thoughts or objections. A good
> brainstorm on this would be useful.
I think the idea of having a level keyword to put
"more good stuff" _randomly_ into the game would be
a way to make a "NetHack Lite" for those of us
having trouble ever ascending, and would be a nifty
NetHack control file option to turn on or off, as
long as the score file was appropriately annotated
or perhaps a separate scorefile maintained for Lite
mode games.
However, using random stuff to replace the currently
guaranteed prizes for solving certain difficult
puzzle parts of the game doesn't work for me. It
would throw off the plan of the game too much. Right
now, doing Sokoban and the Quest and Mines End is a
pretty sure way to guarantee that the PC has "the
right stuff" at least to attempt the castle and its
wand of wishing. Three random goodies from your list
instead of the guaranteed ones would come nowhere
close to matching that part of the game's design.
Also however, you've nuked the whole "lots of what
the PC finds is worthless, the good stuff is rare"
part of the game, exactly what would make the game
"NetHack Lite" instead of "NetHack (dark and
dangerous)", removing much of the attractiveness of
the game, [the puzzle of "solving how to get by
without the stuff your ascension kit is missing"
part], leaving instead a "Monty Haul" "munchkin"
game in its place.
The munchkinization, the "make sure I can win easily
without the effort of first bothering to learn how"
alteration of NetHack is constantly re-proposed here
in many forms. I hope the DevTeam never listens.
IMO
xanthian. |
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Since: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 287
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:59 pm
Post subject: Re: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>roguelike>nethack, others (more info?)
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On Dec 30, 4:29 pm, Kent Paul Dolan <xanth... RemoveThis @well.com> wrote:
> I think the idea of having a level keyword to put
> "more good stuff" _randomly_ into the game would be
> a way to make a "NetHack Lite" for those of us
> having trouble ever ascending, and would be a nifty
> NetHack control file option to turn on or off, as
> long as the score file was appropriately annotated
> or perhaps a separate scorefile maintained for Lite
> mode games.
The idea is, indeed, to replace some of the hard-coded items in some
of the special levels.
It would also make it easier to add new special levels, since they
could then have random, but mostly-guarenteed good loot at the end.
As it is, there are already too many guarantees or virtual
guarantees. If the player does all the special levels then he's got a
good amount of stuff just from that. He doesn't have to rely on the
RNG much at all as it is, and if a new special branch were added, a
reward for completing it would have to be another good item, which
would make the game even LESS random. That, ultimately, is what I'm
trying to address here.
> However, using random stuff to replace the currently
> guaranteed prizes for solving certain difficult
> puzzle parts of the game doesn't work for me. It
> would throw off the plan of the game too much. Right
> now, doing Sokoban and the Quest and Mines End is a
> pretty sure way to guarantee that the PC has "the
> right stuff" at least to attempt the castle and its
> wand of wishing.
I don't think any of that stuff, except for the Bell of course, is
essential. Nethack can be won with surprisingly little. It's hard,
but it can be done. So in a way, every extra item makes it easier.
The core of my idea is to make those items different every time, so
the game experience is diversified more between games.
> Three random goodies from your list
> instead of the guaranteed ones would come nowhere
> close to matching that part of the game's design.
Sometimes it seems to me that Nethack has a great design, but other
times it seems wholly lacking any design! Reading through the history
of the game at Wikia makes it clear that there's a lot of serendipity
here. There's some wonderful systems of item interrelations, but
there's also a lot just happened, without a clear plan, and has been
shoehorned into something that kind of looks like a design.
> Also however, you've nuked the whole "lots of what
> the PC finds is worthless, the good stuff is rare"
> part of the game, exactly what would make the game
> "NetHack Lite" instead of "NetHack (dark and
> dangerous)", removing much of the attractiveness of
> the game, [the puzzle of "solving how to get by
> without the stuff your ascension kit is missing"
> part], leaving instead a "Monty Haul" "munchkin"
> game in its place.
I whole-heartedly disagree with your assessment, and I think I've
explained my reasoning well enough now to make that clear.
(And anyway, it's best if even the bad items have one or two clever
good uses.)
- John H. >> Stay informed about: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot |
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Since: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 287
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:03 pm
Post subject: Re: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>roguelike>nethack (more info?)
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On Dec 30, 1:23 pm, Michiel Helvensteijn <nom... RemoveThis @please.com> wrote:
> There are reasons for most items being where they are:
Yeah, I know all of those reasons. They work from an expository
standpoint, but not so well from a game mechanical one. I say the
latter is the more important of the two.
- John H. >> Stay informed about: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot |
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Since: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 42
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:23 pm
Post subject: Re: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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John H. wrote:
> Nethack, as is standard for roguelikes, is a game about making due
> with what the RNG gives you. But over time, more and more guaranteed
> loot has been added to the game. Sokoban always grants either a bag
> of holding or an amulet of reflection. Mineend grants a luckstone.
> Medusa has a good chance of a shield of reflection or boots of water
> walking. Vlad's Tower has a few always-generated items. The quests
> also have their own always-present stuffs.
There are reasons for most items being where they are:
* The luckstone is a gem/stone, so it makes sense you can find it in a mine.
* In legend, the hero Perseus was given the winged sandals of Perseus and
the polished silver shield of Athena to defeat Medusa with. In that legend,
he chopped her head off. In the nethack version, he just wasn't so
successfull. 
* Vlad's tower contains an amulet of life saving because Dracula always
seems to come back from death.
As for Sokoban, it seems like it just contains an item that would be useful
at that stage of the game. It should be something valuable, in any case.
--
Michiel >> Stay informed about: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot |
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Since: Oct 18, 2007
Posts: 49
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:01 am
Post subject: Re: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2007-12-30, John H. <JohnWH DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> Nethack, as is standard for roguelikes, is a game about making due
> with what the RNG gives you. But over time, more and more guaranteed
> loot has been added to the game. Sokoban always grants either a bag
> of holding or an amulet of reflection. Mineend grants a luckstone.
> Medusa has a good chance of a shield of reflection or boots of water
> walking. Vlad's Tower has a few always-generated items. The quests
> also have their own always-present stuffs.
>
> The stuff that's there should be a reward for the player, that much is
> certain. I am not suggesting changing that. What I am suggesting is
> changing the reward to something that would be randomly selected from
> a list of good stuff, to vary the equipment that players proceeding
> through the game have.
At the risk of being a broken record, Crawl does something like this
--- rather than guaranteed items (other than those you need to unlock
the bottom dungeon branch) the reward vaults have random items that
are skewed strongly toward being good. This works pretty well, though
occasionally you find yourself saying "AGH how come I don't have poison
resistance STILL" or something similar. I believe that vaults also let
you specify random items of varying levels of goodness, so that harder
challenges can give out, on average, better items.
My biggest problem with doing this in NetHack is that it would feel out
of place --- in NetHack you can count on a whole lot of milestones and
you do different things because you know what you are going to get. A lot
of the semi-random item generation comes from shops, where item types are
generated rather than random items, and monster inventories. Adding new
things with semi-random loot would make perfect sense to me, but making
Sokoban have a random item at the top? Whoah, that breaks my brain.
On the other hand, maybe it's OK to break my brain; in an ideal world
what you suggest would force the player to work with the items they were
given and be skewed toward giving them items they could work with. I
don't know how well this would work because in my opinion NetHack has
a set of items that you want to collect to win the game, and the early
game is about collecting them. Not giving some of them away guaranteed
might help the early game but I don't think it would change fundamental
playing styles.
It's hard to say without seeing it in action, though, and it's a patch
I might try even if it weren't on someone's dgl server. I think it
merits further consideration and playtesting --- I'm just not sure it
would end up working.
Thanks for sharing the idea though, it's had me thinking all day.
-r. >> Stay informed about: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot |
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Since: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 287
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:26 am
Post subject: Re: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 31, 7:34 am, "Boudewijn Waijers" <kroi....DeleteThis@home.nl> wrote:
> I'm not sure about this idea. The effect this would have is, in my
> opinion, not necessarily that the game would be easier or more
> difficult. I think the game would, in stead, become more random.
Yes, I've said (too many times I think) that Nethack could stand to
get back to being more random.
> After all, one could be lucky and get some very good items that would
> complement one another. This would definately make the game easier. On
> the other hand, one could get a less useful item every time, in which
> case you'd wish that you still had the guaranteed prizes.
Well, lucky starts are already in the game. Magic lamps are
frequently in the lighting store in minetown, for example.
The benefit of having pre-selected treasure is that the player knows
(or can figure out, in Sokoban's case) what the reward is without
having to work through. But the prize items can also be randomly
generated in the main dungeon, making finishing the branch moot.
Perhaps best would be to have unique items at the end of each branch,
but that adds greatly to power inflation, which is one of the things
I'm trying to remedy with this idea in the first place.
> As said, I'm not really sure what to think... The least I can say is
> that I think it is an interesting idea.
Well, there's that at least. I wonder if Pasi wouldn't mind helping
with figuring out how to add a new compiler keyword?
- John H. >> Stay informed about: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot |
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Posts: 287
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:35 am
Post subject: Re: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 31, 12:04 am, Rachel Elizabeth Dillon <rac....DeleteThis@akrasiac.org>
wrote:
> At the risk of being a broken record, Crawl does something like this
> --- rather than guaranteed items (other than those you need to unlock
> the bottom dungeon branch) the reward vaults have random items that
> are skewed strongly toward being good. This works pretty well, though
> occasionally you find yourself saying "AGH how come I don't have poison
> resistance STILL" or something similar. I believe that vaults also let
> you specify random items of varying levels of goodness, so that harder
> challenges can give out, on average, better items.
I don't think it's necessarily better to do things like Crawl, but
it's an interesting idea.
A theoretical better idea than mine would be to just put extra random
treasure at the end of the branches, but there's already a lot of
random treasure in the game in just the main dungeon, so exploring the
branches loses its import. Also, since lots of Nethack items are
practically useless as the design stands (like 95% of weapons and
armor), there would be a good chance of finding nothing useful even if
lots of loot were generated to compensate.
> My biggest problem with doing this in NetHack is that it would feel out
> of place --- in NetHack you can count on a whole lot of milestones and
> you do different things because you know what you are going to get. A lot
> of the semi-random item generation comes from shops, where item types are
> generated rather than random items, and monster inventories. Adding new
> things with semi-random loot would make perfect sense to me, but making
> Sokoban have a random item at the top? Whoah, that breaks my brain.
>
> On the other hand, maybe it's OK to break my brain; in an ideal world
> what you suggest would force the player to work with the items they were
> given and be skewed toward giving them items they could work with. I
> don't know how well this would work because in my opinion NetHack has
> a set of items that you want to collect to win the game, and the early
> game is about collecting them. Not giving some of them away guaranteed
> might help the early game but I don't think it would change fundamental
> playing styles.
Brain-breaking is what I tend to go for with these YANIs. I am in
favor of making Nethack's play more varied. As it is, every game
tends to be more-or-less the same experience. It's one thing that
Rogue definitely has over the game, that its random look forces the
player to adapt different, sometimes radically different, techniques
each game. Until 3.1 (the birth of the current dungeon scheme),
Nethack was more like that as well.
> It's hard to say without seeing it in action, though, and it's a patch
> I might try even if it weren't on someone's dgl server. I think it
> merits further consideration and playtesting --- I'm just not sure it
> would end up working.
I'll see what I can figure out towards implementing it.
- John H. >> Stay informed about: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot |
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Since: Dec 16, 2005
Posts: 76
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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John H. wrote:
> Ideally, the equipment should nearly always be useful to a player who
> has not yet received any wishes. Of course there would be cases where
> a player already has satisfied the need the generated item addresses,
> but that can already happen.
> In addition to this item, in place of the usual guarenteed item, I'd
> also suggest putting a 10% chance of an un-ID'd plastic Amulet of
> Yendor. Because we don't want to be -too- nice....
> I don't pretend the idea is perfect, but I'd like to hear your
> thoughts or objections. A good brainstorm on this would be useful.
I'm not sure about this idea. The effect this would have is, in my
opinion, not necessarily that the game would be easier or more
difficult. I think the game would, in stead, become more random.
After all, one could be lucky and get some very good items that would
complement one another. This would definately make the game easier. On
the other hand, one could get a less useful item every time, in which
case you'd wish that you still had the guaranteed prizes.
As said, I'm not really sure what to think... The least I can say is
that I think it is an interesting idea.
--
Boudewijn.
--
"Would those who believe in telekinesis please raise my hand?"
- Maarten Pieters, in NRC Handelsblad. >> Stay informed about: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot |
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Since: Nov 28, 2007
Posts: 13
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:57 pm
Post subject: Re: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 30, 11:43 am, "John H." <Joh....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> The list of items I've come up with, provided for suggestions and
> comments, is:
> 1d3 blessed scrolls of identify (a knowledgeable player seeing more
> than one scroll basically now knows what scrolls of identify are,
> itself useful knowledge)
identify is a really common scroll as it is, and i'd be disappointed
if this was my prize, even at the end of soko. knowledgeable players
tend to id these by price the moment they find a store anyway.
> boots of levitation
> ring of levitation
> ring of conflict
(all non-cursed, preferably?)
> blessed unicorn horn
personally, if i've just completely completed a branch, i've probably
had a unicorn or two die just on the way to the end of it.
these are just my thoughts of some of the items that don't quite stack
up to the others. >> Stay informed about: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot |
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Since: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 55
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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John H. <JohnWH DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, there's that at least. I wonder if Pasi wouldn't mind helping
> with figuring out how to add a new compiler keyword?
>
It's not _that_ hard.
So, when normally you have something like
OBJECT:'(',"bag of holding",(x,y)
you want something like
OBJECT:'(', good, (x,y)
or possibly
OBJECT:good, (x,y)
In short (and definitely not tested):
1) Add the keyword to util/lev_comp.l, where the other keywords are,
for example
good return GOOD_ID;
2) add the GOOD_ID to util/lev_comp.y, somewhere among the other tokens,
for example:
%token <i> GOOD_ID
3) edit the object_desc -part in util/lev_comp.y so it allows the GOOD_ID
in the OBJECT definition. You probably want to add one or two fields to
object struct in include/sp_lev.h so you can mark what is supposed to be
a good object...
4) edit create_object() in src/sp_lev.c to create a good object.
--
Pasi Kallinen
paxed DeleteThis @alt.org
http://bilious.homelinux.org/ -- NetHack Patch Database >> Stay informed about: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot |
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:05 pm
Post subject: Re: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>roguelike>nethack, others (more info?)
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XyZZy <EliminateCaliber @ gmail.com> wrote:
> identify is a really common scroll as it is, and
> i'd be disappointed if this was my prize, even at
> the end of soko.
Which brings up the other broken aspect of John's
YANI: lots of NetHackers (not me) hate Sokoban to
death anyway, but do it because the prizes are so
game altering. Who among those players would bother
with Sokoban _at all_ if the prize guarantee were
weakened to merely "some one of John's list"?
The value of NetHack's prizes should continue to
match the difficulty of acquiring them, IMO, as they
do now. Creating some less difficult additional
dungeon branches (say, as replacements for or
additions to the shops of Mines Town), and salting
them with John's prizes at the end, would be
appropriate, but to downgrade the prizes of Sokoban,
Vlad's Tower, the Wizard's tower, the Quest, or
Mines End merely to add variety to the game, seems
wrong-headed to me. NetHack is already rife with
found-object variety, and those found objects don't
especially need enriching for no extra effort
expended.
xanthian, and NetHack in general could use a lot
more patchwriters creating new branches,
particularly to liven up Gehennom's bleak mazes.
Granted, calling Vlad's tower "difficult" is an
outright lie, but that's a problem that needs
solving separately, not by cheapening the prize
there. >> Stay informed about: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot |
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:41 pm
Post subject: Re: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Jan 2, 5:05 pm, Kent Paul Dolan <xanth....TakeThisOut@well.com> wrote:
> Which brings up the other broken aspect of John's
> YANI: lots of NetHackers (not me) hate Sokoban to
> death anyway, but do it because the prizes are so
> game altering. Who among those players would bother
> with Sokoban _at all_ if the prize guarantee were
> weakened to merely "some one of John's list"?
Does it make sense to infallibly provide such a game-altering reward
for completing a branch that amounts to solving sliding-block puzzles?
I think Sokoban is great, but should be ignorable. People who don't
want to mess with it should be able to skip it, but as-is, both prizes
are strong enough that even people who hate it feel compelled to try.
A few of the things on the light might be considered even better items
than a bag of holding or amulet of reflection, but by randomizing the
item, it'd feel less of a duty to complete Sokoban.
> The value of NetHack's prizes should continue to
> match the difficulty of acquiring them, IMO, as they
> do now. Creating some less difficult additional
> dungeon branches (say, as replacements for or
> additions to the shops of Mines Town), and salting
> them with John's prizes at the end, would be
> appropriate, but to downgrade the prizes of Sokoban,
> Vlad's Tower, the Wizard's tower, the Quest, or
> Mines End merely to add variety to the game, seems
> wrong-headed to me. NetHack is already rife with
> found-object variety, and those found objects don't
> especially need enriching for no extra effort
> expended.
People would still enter the Mines to at least the town because of the
other guarantees there. The Quest and the Wiz's tower already have
its own mega-rewards, and they're entirely suitable. Vlad's Tower has
a couple of items that could be usefully replaced with random loot,
but by that point in the game the player already has most of the stuff
he could want. Really, my suggestion only would really affect Mine
End and Sokoban as it stands.
> xanthian, and NetHack in general could use a lot
> more patchwriters creating new branches,
> particularly to liven up Gehennom's bleak mazes.
But that's the entire reason I suggested it! If someone adds a new
branch to the game, what's going to go at the end of it? Whatever
it is, it'll derandomize the game even more. Putting in a random,
guaranteed-good item would help eliminate the increasing tendency to
give the players guarantees, and help ensure each game is its own
experience instead of just wandering around picking up the known
reward items.
- John H. >> Stay informed about: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot |
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Since: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 287
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>roguelike>nethack (more info?)
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On Dec 31 2007, 7:57 pm, XyZZy <EliminateCali....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> identify is a really common scroll as it is, and i'd be disappointed
> if this was my prize, even at the end of soko. knowledgeable players
> tend to id these by price the moment they find a store anyway.
Price ID is overpowered, I think I've said that before in a previous
message though. Anyway, I've had games in which I didn't find a
scroll of identify until the first demon lord level.
> > boots of levitation
> > ring of levitation
> > ring of conflict
>
> (all non-cursed, preferably?)
Of course.
> > blessed unicorn horn
>
> personally, if i've just completely completed a branch, i've probably
> had a unicorn or two die just on the way to the end of it.
The blessing is the intended reward here. Maybe this one should be
replaced with about d4+1 potions of holy water? Could be useful to
atheists before finding a remove curse scroll.
> these are just my thoughts of some of the items that don't quite stack
> up to the others.
The dilithium crystals are the weakest prize on the list. In the old
days these items were quite nice score awards, now they're just the
most costly of a whole class of nearly useless things. They may not
even be the most valuable anymore, since amethysts can de-boozify.
- John H. >> Stay informed about: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot |
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Since: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 287
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ah, thanks! I may have a go at this later....
- John H.
On Dec 31 2007, 3:47 pm, pa....TakeThisOut@alt.org (Pasi Kallinen) wrote:
> John H. <Joh....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Well, there's that at least. I wonder if Pasi wouldn't mind helping
> > with figuring out how to add a new compiler keyword?
>
> It's not _that_ hard.
>
> So, when normally you have something like
>
> OBJECT:'(',"bag of holding",(x,y)
>
> you want something like
>
> OBJECT:'(', good, (x,y)
>
> or possibly
>
> OBJECT:good, (x,y)
>
> In short (and definitely not tested):
>
> 1) Add the keyword to util/lev_comp.l, where the other keywords are,
> for example
> good return GOOD_ID;
>
> 2) add the GOOD_ID to util/lev_comp.y, somewhere among the other tokens,
> for example:
> %token <i> GOOD_ID
>
> 3) edit the object_desc -part in util/lev_comp.y so it allows the GOOD_ID
> in the OBJECT definition. You probably want to add one or two fields to
> object struct in include/sp_lev.h so you can mark what is supposed to be
> a good object...
>
> 4) edit create_object() in src/sp_lev.c to create a good object.
>
> --
> Pasi Kallinen
> pa....TakeThisOut@alt.orghttp://bilious.homelinux.org/ -- NetHack Patch Database >> Stay informed about: YANI: Level compiler keyword for good (but random) loot |
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