YACD: Second three-rune character in as many days; Where to?

sterjs.DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:
> I've cleared all of the Mines, Lair, Swamp, Snake Pits, Elven Halls,
> Vaults, Hall of Blades, Hive and the main Dungeon down to D: 27.
>
> Should I enter Zot?

Zot 1-4 might be worth a visit; Zot:5 would be best deferred a little
while, primarily because...

> I wanted to improve enchantments/air magic enough
> so that I can cast blink reliably, but the only places left to accrue
> experience are The Crypt(little food is produced here, so I'll rapidly
> burn through my supplies)

....this expectation is too pessimistic. (I'm echoing Johan here, which
I'll be doing in various places below; our views on things are
generally similar (partly because they're a close match for Crawl
"conventional wisdom"), though fortunately not *quite* the same -- no
fun in that.)

The Crypt will be a cakewalk for a character of that power level, with
the exception of curse skulls. Keep a careful eye out for these, and
consider bypassing them unless you're willing to spend resources on
taking them out, as just rushing in probably won't get you anywhere
except dead. They're worth a lot of XP, though, so you might want to
make the investment. Don't forget you have Abjuration on your summoning
rod. (Curse skulls summon. To put it dreadfully lightly.)

If you do decide for a bypassing approach, so be it; the Crypt will
then be, again, entirely a cakewalk. (And thus hungering there will be
negligible.) Keep in mind that, thanks to the Patch, you can mark
"no-travel zones" on the map -- press Ctrl-X while viewing the level
map and then, uh, use my finger memory. Except you can't, heck, even I
can't unless my fingers are doing the talking. Well, try it and it
should be fairly self-evident. Center a no-travel zone on your friendly
neighborhood curse skull, and you're all set.

> and The Hells, Abyss, Pandemonium, Slime Pits
> and the Tomb(All too tough for someone looking for a first YAVP?), so
> I'm not sure I will be able to pull it off.

Hells: What Johan said.
Abyss: What Johan said, mostly. It has other uses than fishing for the
Rune, but I still wouldn't send your guy there on purpose.
Pan: What Johan said, but with a bit more hair standing on end. I've
spent hours and hours in Pan with walking tanks, and it still terrifies
me.
Tomb: Elyvilonites are among the best characters to take to the Tomb.
However, I still wouldn't recommend it for a YAFVP. (Unless you're me,
but I'm nuts.)
Slime Pits: I'd recommend them to you more broadly than Johan did. That
is: I'd recommend them to you even if you have no source of teleport
control. The amount of experience you can whip up for yourself down
there is considerable. Just follow these 4 simple rules:

1. Wear/wield only artifacts. [1]
2. Be cold resistant.
3. Be mutation resistant.

[1] Don't wear throwaways; they'll get corroded down to the point where
they *reduce* your AC fairly quick. If you have no artifact swords, be
ready go barehanded against corroders. (Jellies, acid blobs, brown
oozes, perhaps azure jellies.) You could benefit from some Unarmed
training anyway.

A fourth, optional rule:

4. Use detect creatures.

Since you can, you should. Will give you some advance warning of G's,
which can always be giant eyeballs -- potentially dangerous if they
paralyze you right when an acid blob is approaching. (Rarer than it
sounds, though.)

> Additionally, I can no
> longer call on Elyvilon for greater healing because I burned up a lot
> of piety clearing Vault 8.

No weapons to sac lying around the dungeon? Yes, gather-and-sac is
boring. So is dying and having to restart.

> Any comments on my skill/equipment setup are welcome. I don't have a
> great cache of resources at the Temple, so I have a limited ability to
> make improvements. I have many resistance holes and I haven't found
> much in the way of accessories to improve the situation. I do have a
> gold dragon armour sitting around somewhere, but I think that it would
> not work well with the unarmed, dodging and divinations I've built up.

Divinations need not be cast in the heat of battle. However, you'd
indeed need far more dodging skill to overcome the EV penalty of the GD
armour, and while I'm not sure to this day how aux unarmed interacts
with heavy armour, I'd be worried too.

Your mention does remind me, however, to remind you to carry a course
of electricity resistance to Zot.

> I very much want to get this monkey off my back--I have been playing
> for months and lost hundreds of characters with no victories, though in
> these last few games I have really improved my play a lot by using
> scarce resources more effectively--even simple things like using
> potions, scrolls and wands aggressively instead of conserving them has
> made a big difference.

Absolutely! The first half of learning Crawl is remembering to conserve
resources. The second half is remembering not to conserve resources.

> Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.
>
> Bronco the Swordmaster
>
> Race : Minotaur Res.Fire : + + . See Invis. : .
> Class : Monk Res.Cold : x . . Warding : .

Try to work out a configuration where you're at least non-susceptible
to cold. The farther away from triple-resistance you get, the more each
level counts, and the susceptible level (levels?) is (are?) quite far
indeed.

> Worship : Elyvilon Life Prot.: . . . Conserve : .

He da bomb, huh?

> Level : 24 Res.Poison: . Res.Corr. : .
> Exp : 855082 Res.Elec. : . Gourmand : .
> Next Level : 922599
> Exp Needed : 67517 Sust.Abil.: . Rnd.Telep. : .
> Spls.Left : 19 Res.Mut. : + Ctrl.Telep.: .

Resist Mutation as mainline. Smart.

> Gold : 2420 Res.Slow : . Levitation : .
> Clarity : . Ctrl.Flight: .
> HP : 218
> MP : 32
> Str : 19 Weapon : +8,+7 orc scimitar (slice)

Like Johan said, surprisingly weak ego for an endgame weapon. Probably
not worth it to seek out a speed ego at this point, though; you'll be
hard-pressed to reach +8,+7 again.

> Int : 7 Armour : +2 dragon armour
> Dex : 22 Shield :
> AC : 24 Helmet :
> Evasion : 15 Cloak : +0 cloak
> Shield : 0 Gloves : +2 pair of gloves
> Boots : +2 pair of boots (run)

Fairly weak armour for the endgame, so you should be a little cautious.
If you can loot the bottom of the Slime Pits (i.e. if you have teleport
control), you might find some missing links. Like a freaking hat!

> Play time : 12:59:03 Amulet : amulet of resist mutation
> Turns : 166547 Ring : +6,+5 ring of slaying
> Ring : +0,+6 ring of slaying

Your evasion is low enough that swapping the pure-damage ring for more
evasion might help. Try it, watch how it goes, decide. I disagree with
Johan on the +hit/+dam ring being possibly outswappable -- you can
never have enough to-hit in a crisis IMO.

> Magical devices
> q - a wand of hasting (11)
> H - a wand of teleportation (7)

You really don't have any attack wands? Yes, there are rods, but rods
can run out of MP...

The wand of hasting is great, though. And considering you have no means
of conservation, the teleportation wand instead of scrolls is a fairly
good idea too.

> Comestibles
> z - 4 royal jellies
> I - 15 honeycombs
> X - a bread ration

Way too much food on your person -- it's just excess weight. Unless
you're afraid of trap-banishment, etc. to the Abyss, which is fair
enough.

> Scrolls
> s - 4 scrolls of identify
> x - 3 scrolls of teleportation
> B - 2 scrolls of remove curse
> Q - a scroll of blinking

What Johan said.

> Jewellery
> b - an amulet of resist mutation (around neck)
> l - an amulet of the gourmand

All the more reason to carry less food if you find yourself bogged down
a lot.

> p - a ring of levitation
> r - a ring of life protection
> u - a ring of protection from cold
> v - the ring "Dodequ"
> (You bought it in a shop on level 7 of the Elven Halls)
> This ring protects its wearer from the loss of their strength,
> dexterity
> and intelligence.
> It protects you from magic.
> It prevents most forms of teleportation.

Stash this, perhaps, but don't lose it. Anti-teleport, while painful,
can save otherwise-lost games.

> y - a ring of see invisible
> A - a +6,+5 ring of slaying (right hand)
> K - a ring of poison resistance
> P - a +5 ring of evasion
> U - a +0,+6 ring of slaying (left hand)
> Z - a ring of sustain abilities

Matches 'v'. Dump this somewhere so it's not occupying brain cells.

> Potions
> f - 4 potions of healing
> C - a potion of invisibility
> G - 2 potions of restore abilities

A bit overcautious (the need to restore abilities in the field is
negligible, and in emergencies you've got Ely for that), but whatever.

If you manage to get any use out of invisibility this late in the game,
please let me know. I'd love to hear that it's useful, but I haven't
had much luck shaking late-game monsters with it. The maintainer says
Nexoqecs can't see invisible, and he should know, and those are
important, but I've had weird results even against them. Maybe I just
don't understand invisibility well enough.

> Magical staves
> h - a rod of summoning
> (You acquired it on level 5 of the Vaults)
> w - a rod of destruction [inacc,magma,cold]
> (You found it on level 16 of the Dungeon)
> L - a rod of destruction [fire]
> (You acquired it on level 27 of the Dungeon)

Awesome. Should make Slime a snap.

> You have 17 experience left.
>
> Skills:
> + Level 17 Fighting
> * Level 27 Long Blades
> - Level 2 Crossbows
> - Level 3 Darts
> - Level 2 Throwing
> + Level 14 Armour
> - Level 14 Dodging

I have a rather controversial opinion that, despite being turn-based,
roguelikes go better if you keep-it-simple-stupid. Therefore, despite
being a huge Evasion lover, I'd recommend you stick to the Dragon
armour for the rest of the game, allowing you to concentrate your gray
matter on things with a higher benefit/rumination ratio than eeking out
another point of EV from Dodging.

> - Level 2 Stealth
> - Level 1 Stabbing
> + Level 17 Unarmed Combat
> + Level 3 Spellcasting
> + Level 2 Enchantments
> - Level 4 Divinations
> + Level 11 Invocations
> + Level 12 Evocations

Keep in mind that the lower a skill, the cheaper it is to increase.
Therefore your spell skills will still be very cost-effective
investments for a while. Enchantments are, LJS, especially useful for a
fighter.

> You have 19 spell levels left.
> You know the following spells:
>
> Your Spells Type Success
> Level
> a - Detect Creatures Divination Good 2
> b - Detect Traps Divination Good 2
> c - Detect Secret Doors Divination Very Good 1
> d - Blink Translocation Very Poor 2

Probably best left alone -- by the time you get it to the point where
the spell is a worthwhile use of a precious turn in a crisis, it'll be
eating serious XP that could better go to other things.

> e - Repel Missiles Air/Enchantment Poor 2

If you find a Book of the Sky, consider coddling this so you can get
Insulation castable. Insulation gives electricity resistance. Zot's
electric golems attack many times per round with high to-hit and
special shock-based bonus damage...

> f - Confusing Touch Enchantment Good 1

Hmm, I dunno. Well, you'll be training Enchantments anyway, so
whatever.

e.
 >> Stay informed about: YACD: Second three-rune character in as many days; Where to? 

sterjs DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:
> I've cleared all of the Mines, Lair, Swamp, Snake Pits, Elven Halls,
> Vaults, Hall of Blades, Hive and the main Dungeon down to D: 27.
>
> Should I enter Zot? I wanted to improve enchantments/air magic enough
> so that I can cast blink reliably, but the only places left to accrue

Blink is a Translocation spell. Enchantments/Air is for Deflect
Missiles, but that is also available in rod form.

> experience are The Crypt(little food is produced here, so I'll rapidly
> burn through my supplies) and The Hells, Abyss, Pandemonium, Slime Pits
> and the Tomb(All too tough for someone looking for a first YAVP?), so
> I'm not sure I will be able to pull it off. Additionally, I can no
> longer call on Elyvilon for greater healing because I burned up a lot
> of piety clearing Vault 8.

The Crypt isn't *that* bad for food consumption. It's rather short and
can contain vaults full of undead that have a high XP/food value. Zot
1-4, however, have a much higher XP/food value, but also a much higher
OhShitOhShitOhShit value. If you go into Zot - step carefully. That said
- Zot 1-4 is not an adequate reflection on Zot 5, sort of like Vaults
1-7 not being an adequate reflection of Vaults: 8, only more so.

Also, have you done many runs where you collect useless weapons and
offer them to Elyvilon? Ely is mighty happy about those weapons being
gone from the world, you know.

Also, My First Winning Character Did the Hells and Lived To Tell the
Tale (Enter Hell level - Magic Map - Dig to nearest staircase - wait for
mana to regen - Descend - Repeat), but he was a Deep Elf Conjurer. You
are a rodslinger, though. Maybe that's enough.

> Any comments on my skill/equipment setup are welcome. I don't have a
> great cache of resources at the Temple, so I have a limited ability to

Why haven't you moved your stash to Lair:1? The Lair is much more
accessible from every other place in the game.

> I very much want to get this monkey off my back--I have been playing
> for months and lost hundreds of characters with no victories, though in

Oh, I know exactly how you feel.

> these last few games I have really improved my play a lot by using
> scarce resources more effectively--even simple things like using
> potions, scrolls and wands aggressively instead of conserving them has
> made a big difference. The other constant has been taking advantage of
> Ely's invocations to bail me out when I get into trouble.

Ely - your friendly neighbourhood Deity of Ass-Saving.

> Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.
>
> Bronco the Swordmaster
>
> Race : Minotaur Res.Fire : + + . See Invis. : .
> Class : Monk Res.Cold : x . . Warding : .
Resistance hole? Hell, this is a gaping resistance *pit*. I know those
awesome rings of slaying of yours are super awesome, but you need to not
be susceptible to Cold. At least if you do any area at all where cold
damage can be part of the equation.

Okay, maybe you're the swap-in-resistance type. I can never get that to
work, so I'm biased against it. That's just me, though.

> Str : 19 Weapon : +8,+7 orc scimitar (slice)

Ah, a Minotaur Monk pulling off the Long Blades route. I've tried that a
few times. Couldn't get them past the Midgame Treshold (D:10).

> Play time : 12:59:03 Amulet : amulet of resist mutation
> Turns : 166547 Ring : +6,+5 ring of slaying
> Ring : +0,+6 ring of slaying

You have excellent taste in jewellery. A bit light on the cold
resistance front, but man can your RNG pick them out.

> O - a +0 cloak (worn)

Rotten cloak luck, if this is the best you've got.

> T - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)

Pretty much made up for by these. Boots of Running are *so* nice.

> Magical devices
> q - a wand of hasting (11)

Mmmmm, pretty! Warning: Excessive use of hasting may be hazardous to
your health.

> Comestibles
> z - 4 royal jellies
> I - 15 honeycombs
> X - a bread ration

Why are you carrying this much food? Not that you lack in carrying
capacity, being a Minotaur, but three slots?

> Scrolls
> s - 4 scrolls of identify
> x - 3 scrolls of teleportation
> B - 2 scrolls of remove curse
> Q - a scroll of blinking

Decent scroll sense. Stash more of the Identify ones, though.

> Jewellery
> b - an amulet of resist mutation (around neck)
> l - an amulet of the gourmand
> p - a ring of levitation
> r - a ring of life protection
> u - a ring of protection from cold
> v - the ring "Dodequ"
> (You bought it in a shop on level 7 of the Elven Halls)
> This ring protects its wearer from the loss of their strength,
> dexterity
> and intelligence.
> It protects you from magic.
> It prevents most forms of teleportation.
>
> y - a ring of see invisible
> A - a +6,+5 ring of slaying (right hand)
> K - a ring of poison resistance
> P - a +5 ring of evasion
> U - a +0,+6 ring of slaying (left hand)
> Z - a ring of sustain abilities

Excellent jewellery collection.

> Potions
> f - 4 potions of healing
> C - a potion of invisibility
> G - 2 potions of restore abilities

These *and* Royal Jellies? Overkill, if you ask me. I'd just be carrying
these, until they ran out.

> Magical staves
> h - a rod of summoning
> (You acquired it on level 5 of the Vaults)
> w - a rod of destruction [inacc,magma,cold]
> (You found it on level 16 of the Dungeon)
> L - a rod of destruction [fire]
> (You acquired it on level 27 of the Dungeon)

Nice stuff. You only lack the one with Deflect Missiles on it.

> You have 17 experience left.
>
> Skills:
> + Level 17 Fighting
> * Level 27 Long Blades
> - Level 2 Crossbows
> - Level 3 Darts
> - Level 2 Throwing
> + Level 14 Armour
> - Level 14 Dodging

Whoa, pulling off this is nice. Just one more level of Armour and you
will double all base AC. Then you can go back to light armour for that
excellent dodging thing, plus much easier to cast spells of course. And
Minotaurs need easy when it comes to spells.

You have checked all found robes for being Robes of Resistance, right?

> + Level 17 Unarmed Combat

I bet you're just dishing out the pain in melee

> + Level 12 Evocations

And from range.

>
>
> You have 19 spell levels left.
> You know the following spells:
>
> Your Spells Type Success
> Level
> a - Detect Creatures Divination Good 2
> b - Detect Traps Divination Good 2

You should also have Detect Items, IMO.

> d - Blink Translocation Very Poor 2

See? Translocation. And you don't have a single skill level in
Translocation.

> e - Repel Missiles Air/Enchantment Poor 2

This needs to be better if you don't find that rod.

> Mutations & Other Weirdness
> Your digestive system is specialised to digest meat.

Um. And you were carrying that bread ration why, exactly?

All in all an excellent character with a good chance to pull it through
to the win. Good luck!
--
A good signature is a concise and original summary of personality. This
is not a good signature.
 >> Stay informed about: YACD: Second three-rune character in as many days; Where to? 

> > Inventory:
> > Hand weapons
> > e - a +8,+7 orcish scimitar of slicing (weapon)
>
> Weapons of speed are generally deemed to be the best. Katanas are
> really nice for blades + unarmed, but they're really rare.

There might be a long blade of speed lying around somewhere...once my
scimitar was enchanted up, I stopped wield-IDing unless the weapon was
runed/glowing/etc..

I actually found two katanas lying around in Swamp: 1, but by the time
I found them my scimitar was already +7,+7(started at +1,+2). Early on,
I debated whether I should conserve my enchant weapon scrolls until I
found something better, but I worried that hesitancy might kill me in
the short run, and my hope was that the difference between the scimitar
and whatever better weapons I might find in the future would not be
enough to get me killed in the endgame. I've since used about 9 scrolls
trying to get the damn thing to >+8,+7 with no success. I could have
just enchanted up a katana and vorpalized it by this time.

I probably won't play another long blades character if I ascend this
guy, but in the future, how long do I wait to find a good weapon before
I start using the EW scrolls? If I were not using Unarmed, and was
using Long Blades, Maces or Axes, I'd go with a Great Sword, Great Mace
or Battle Axe respectively. For Short Blades and Quarterstaves I'd want
a quick blade or staff of speed and I'd have to worship Okawaru or
Trog. I'm not sure about what I'd wait for if I were using Unarmed+1 or
1.5 Handed weapon or Polearms in general.

>
> > Armour
> > D - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
> > O - a +0 cloak (worn)
>
> Nothing better?
>
> > T - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
>
> Nice.
>
> You know that minotaurs can wear hats and caps?

Yeah. The Dragon Armour and Boots of Running are nice, but it would
have been nice to find some better gloves and cloak(or, god forbid, a
cap/hat). I believe I have identified every pair of gloves and cloak in
the dungeon, but I'll check again when I play again.

> No other wands? Fire and cold shouldn't be underestimated.

I took your advice and scrounged up the last fire and cold wands with
any charges left.

> > P - a +5 ring of evasion
>
> I'd wear this, or the ring of cold resistance.
>
> > U - a +0,+6 ring of slaying (left hand)
>
> +11 to damage is really nice, but I'd switch out one of them and see
> how that works. If you find you mostly hit, go with U, otherwise A.

Because of how much damage I do each hit, I can't see it being worth it
to give up +6 to hit for +1 to damage. If I do 30 avg damage for
example(I have no idea what the actual number is), I only have to hit
an extra 1 time in 30 to justify using the +6,+5 ring.

> > Magical staves
> > h - a rod of summoning
> > (You acquired it on level 5 of the Vaults)
>
> This can provide useful distractions.
>

Yeah but I don't want to use it unless absolutely necessary because
Elyvilon gets pissed when your summoned creatures die.

> > w - a rod of destruction [inacc,magma,cold]
> > (You found it on level 16 of the Dungeon)
>
> Bolt of inaccuracy is really good, provided you can hit what you're
> aiming at.

What is it useful for? I have really only used it to kill curse skulls,
dancing weapons and skeletal dragons so far, but I noticed it
slaughtered undead like pigs when I aimed it at the curse skull.

>
> > Skills:
> > + Level 17 Fighting
> > * Level 27 Long Blades
> > - Level 2 Crossbows
> > - Level 3 Darts
> > - Level 2 Throwing
> > + Level 14 Armour
>
> Try to get this to level 15.
>

I'm trying, hehe. I guess I've been too efficient at pumping experience
into Invocations/Evocations.

> > + Level 3 Spellcasting
> > + Level 2 Enchantments
>
> I'm not sure how useful it will be to raise these, with your int score
> and your skill aptitudes. OTOH, some of the enchantments are really
> nice, and it's fairly cheap to raise them.

My goal was to be able to cast Repel Missiles(I've since found a rod of
warding though so this is unimportant). I do have Silence now...I'll
post a dump.

>
> > e - Repel Missiles Air/Enchantment Poor 2
>
> Staffs of enchantment can buff your failure rates. Perhaps not worth
> switching around for repel missiles, but something to remember for the
> future.
>

Unfortunately, none of the staves in the dungeon are enchantment, air
or wizardry. This game has been a strange equipment wise...on the one
hand I found two great rings of slaying, 6 scrolls of acquirement,
amulet of the gourmand and boots of running. On the other hand I have a
lot of resistance holes, no useful magical staves, etc...
 >> Stay informed about: YACD: Second three-rune character in as many days; Where to? 

> > Should I enter Zot? I wanted to improve enchantments/air magic enough
> > so that I can cast blink reliably, but the only places left to accrue
>
> Blink is a Translocation spell. Enchantments/Air is for Deflect
> Missiles, but that is also available in rod form.

Yep, I meant to say Repel/Deflect Missiles instead of Blink(I edited
after realizing that I should probably just forget Blink).

> Also, have you done many runs where you collect useless weapons and
> offer them to Elyvilon? Ely is mighty happy about those weapons being
> gone from the world, you know.
> Why haven't you moved your stash to Lair:1? The Lair is much more
> accessible from every other place in the game.

I took your advice on both points...I carted all the weapons from the
Hall of Blades to the Temple and then moved my stash to the Hall. In
the future, I will move my stashes to the Lair sooner...though with
Elyvilon there is a lot of benefit to just walking around the dungeon
and wasting time because that builds piety.

> Ely - your friendly neighbourhood Deity of Ass-Saving.

Sooo true. I would definitely be dead right now if I had gone with
Makhleb, Okawaru or Trog. I don't know why they're more popular than
Ely, who seems to be clearly superior for fighters in the long run.

> > Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.
> >
> > Bronco the Swordmaster
> >
> > Race : Minotaur Res.Fire : + + . See Invis. : .
> > Class : Monk Res.Cold : x . . Warding : .
> Resistance hole? Hell, this is a gaping resistance *pit*. I know those
> awesome rings of slaying of yours are super awesome, but you need to not
> be susceptible to Cold. At least if you do any area at all where cold
> damage can be part of the equation.
>
> Okay, maybe you're the swap-in-resistance type. I can never get that to
> work, so I'm biased against it. That's just me, though.

Yeah, I swap the cold resistance ring in when I am facing frosty bad
guys(the key IMO is to use macros to swap out the rings--i.e. / key =
RaPb, * Key = RbPa). It's also something you have to practice to
remember to do it. It doesn't hurt that I've done this in both my last
games with the Resist Mutation/Gourmand Amulet dance.

> Why are you carrying this much food? Not that you lack in carrying
> capacity, being a Minotaur, but three slots?

I'm paranoid about being banished to the Abyss.

> > Magical staves
> > h - a rod of summoning
> > (You acquired it on level 5 of the Vaults)
> > w - a rod of destruction [inacc,magma,cold]
> > (You found it on level 16 of the Dungeon)
> > L - a rod of destruction [fire]
> > (You acquired it on level 27 of the Dungeon)
>
> Nice stuff. You only lack the one with Deflect Missiles on it.

Not any more! I am a lucky bastard and used my 6th scroll of
acquirement(I forgot that it was in a Shop in the swamp and I now had
enough $ to purchase it) to obtain the rod of warding shortly after I
started playing. I used to think that rod of destruction [ice] was the
best rod...I changed my mind--warding is the best.

>
> > You have 17 experience left.
> >
> > Skills:
> > + Level 17 Fighting
> > * Level 27 Long Blades
> > - Level 2 Crossbows
> > - Level 3 Darts
> > - Level 2 Throwing
> > + Level 14 Armour
> > - Level 14 Dodging
>
> Whoa, pulling off this is nice. Just one more level of Armour and you
> will double all base AC. Then you can go back to light armour for that
> excellent dodging thing, plus much easier to cast spells of course. And
> Minotaurs need easy when it comes to spells.
>
> You have checked all found robes for being Robes of Resistance, right?

Nope. My plan is to just stick with the Dragon Armour, as I can cast
Divinations while wearing it and it gives me good AC/EV. I doubt I'll
mess around with levelling up dodging either. Armour is still stuck at
14 and the only places left to gain experience are too dangerous to
mess with.

>
> > + Level 17 Unarmed Combat
>
> I bet you're just dishing out the pain in melee

Yeah, when I have the rings of slaying on I can kill pretty much
anything in 2-3 hits.

> You should also have Detect Items, IMO.

What is that useful for? I explore every level until it is completely
mapped.

> All in all an excellent character with a good chance to pull it through
> to the win. Good luck!

Thanks! I hope I can pull out a win here. I cleared the Crypts and
Slime Pits per the advice in this thread and I'm in even better shape
as I acquired the superstar rod of warding and an amulet with
Electricity resistance(the only other source I have is Storm Dragon
Armour) that I can swap in.
 >> Stay informed about: YACD: Second three-rune character in as many days; Where to? 

> > Should I enter Zot? I wanted to improve enchantments/air magic enough
> > so that I can cast blink reliably, but the only places left to accrue
>
> Blink is a Translocation spell. Enchantments/Air is for Deflect
> Missiles, but that is also available in rod form.

Yep, I meant to say Repel/Deflect Missiles instead of Blink(I edited
after realizing that I should probably just forget Blink).

> Also, have you done many runs where you collect useless weapons and
> offer them to Elyvilon? Ely is mighty happy about those weapons being
> gone from the world, you know.
> Why haven't you moved your stash to Lair:1? The Lair is much more
> accessible from every other place in the game.

I took your advice on both points...I carted all the weapons from the
Hall of Blades to the Temple and then moved my stash to the Hall. In
the future, I will move my stashes to the Lair sooner...though with
Elyvilon there is a lot of benefit to just walking around the dungeon
and wasting time because that builds piety.

> Ely - your friendly neighbourhood Deity of Ass-Saving.

Sooo true. I would definitely be dead right now if I had gone with
Makhleb, Okawaru or Trog. I don't know why they're more popular than
Ely, who seems to be clearly superior for fighters in the long run.

> > Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.
> >
> > Bronco the Swordmaster
> >
> > Race : Minotaur Res.Fire : + + . See Invis. : .
> > Class : Monk Res.Cold : x . . Warding : .
> Resistance hole? Hell, this is a gaping resistance *pit*. I know those
> awesome rings of slaying of yours are super awesome, but you need to not
> be susceptible to Cold. At least if you do any area at all where cold
> damage can be part of the equation.
>
> Okay, maybe you're the swap-in-resistance type. I can never get that to
> work, so I'm biased against it. That's just me, though.

Yeah, I swap the cold resistance ring in when I am facing frosty bad
guys(the key IMO is to use macros to swap out the rings--i.e. / key =
RaPb, * Key = RbPa). It's also something you have to practice to
remember to do it. It doesn't hurt that I've done this in both my last
games with the Resist Mutation/Gourmand Amulet dance.

> Why are you carrying this much food? Not that you lack in carrying
> capacity, being a Minotaur, but three slots?

I'm paranoid about being banished to the Abyss.

> > Magical staves
> > h - a rod of summoning
> > (You acquired it on level 5 of the Vaults)
> > w - a rod of destruction [inacc,magma,cold]
> > (You found it on level 16 of the Dungeon)
> > L - a rod of destruction [fire]
> > (You acquired it on level 27 of the Dungeon)
>
> Nice stuff. You only lack the one with Deflect Missiles on it.

Not any more! I am a lucky bastard and used my 6th scroll of
acquirement(I forgot that it was in a Shop in the swamp and I now had
enough $ to purchase it) to obtain the rod of warding shortly after I
started playing. I used to think that rod of destruction [ice] was the
best rod...I changed my mind--warding is the best.

>
> > You have 17 experience left.
> >
> > Skills:
> > + Level 17 Fighting
> > * Level 27 Long Blades
> > - Level 2 Crossbows
> > - Level 3 Darts
> > - Level 2 Throwing
> > + Level 14 Armour
> > - Level 14 Dodging
>
> Whoa, pulling off this is nice. Just one more level of Armour and you
> will double all base AC. Then you can go back to light armour for that
> excellent dodging thing, plus much easier to cast spells of course. And
> Minotaurs need easy when it comes to spells.
>
> You have checked all found robes for being Robes of Resistance, right?

Nope. My plan is to just stick with the Dragon Armour, as I can cast
Divinations while wearing it and it gives me good AC/EV. I doubt I'll
mess around with levelling up dodging either. Armour is still stuck at
14 and the only places left to gain experience are too dangerous to
mess with.

>
> > + Level 17 Unarmed Combat
>
> I bet you're just dishing out the pain in melee

Yeah, when I have the rings of slaying on I can kill pretty much
anything in 2-3 hits.

> You should also have Detect Items, IMO.

What is that useful for? I explore every level until it is completely
mapped.

> All in all an excellent character with a good chance to pull it through
> to the win. Good luck!

Thanks! I hope I can pull out a win here. I cleared the Crypts and
Slime Pits per the advice in this thread and I'm in even better shape
as I acquired the superstar rod of warding and an amulet with
Electricity resistance(the only other source I have is Storm Dragon
Armour) that I can swap in.
 >> Stay informed about: YACD: Second three-rune character in as many days; Where to? 

> The Crypt will be a cakewalk for a character of that power level, with
> the exception of curse skulls. Keep a careful eye out for these, and
> consider bypassing them unless you're willing to spend resources on
> taking them out, as just rushing in probably won't get you anywhere
> except dead. They're worth a lot of XP, though, so you might want to
> make the investment. Don't forget you have Abjuration on your summoning
> rod. (Curse skulls summon. To put it dreadfully lightly.)

I have the rod with bolt of inaccuracy and I find Curse Skulls go down
in 2-3 blasts of that, but I'm sure you know that and just didn't read
that I had that rod yet.

I cleared the crypts per the advice in this thread. They were very
easy...I guess I was a bit gunshy as I've lost a very promising
character to a curse skull before(but he didn't have Bolt of
Inaccuracy).

> Slime Pits: I'd recommend them to you more broadly than Johan did. That
> is: I'd recommend them to you even if you have no source of teleport
> control. The amount of experience you can whip up for yourself down
> there is considerable. Just follow these 4 simple rules:
>
> 1. Wear/wield only artifacts. [1]
> 2. Be cold resistant.
> 3. Be mutation resistant.
> A fourth, optional rule:
>
> 4. Use detect creatures.
>
> Since you can, you should. Will give you some advance warning of G's,
> which can always be giant eyeballs -- potentially dangerous if they
> paralyze you right when an acid blob is approaching. (Rarer than it
> sounds, though.)

Thanks for the advice, these rules(along with a serendipitous rod of
warding find) helped me clear the Slime Pits for the first time with
ease even with just an artifact ring mail(greatly protects from cold
though) and unarmed+rods.

>
> > Additionally, I can no
> > longer call on Elyvilon for greater healing because I burned up a lot
> > of piety clearing Vault 8.
>
> No weapons to sac lying around the dungeon? Yes, gather-and-sac is
> boring. So is dying and having to restart.

You're right, I am back exalted again.

> Your mention does remind me, however, to remind you to carry a course
> of electricity resistance to Zot.

Luckily I found an artifact amulet with electricity resistance in the
slime pits. Too bad I have to swap out Resist Mutation out for it, but
I have 2 Potions of Cure Mutation cached in case I catch something
nasty.

> > Race : Minotaur Res.Fire : + + . See Invis. : .
> > Class : Monk Res.Cold : x . . Warding : .
>
> Try to work out a configuration where you're at least non-susceptible
> to cold. The farther away from triple-resistance you get, the more each
> level counts, and the susceptible level (levels?) is (are?) quite far
> indeed.

My only sources of cold resistance are a ring(of same name) and a +2
artifact ring mail that greatly protects from cold. I guess my
conundrum is that I have three very useful rings - +5 Evasion, +6, +5
Slaying and Protection from Cold, and I need to figure out which
mainline combination of the three is least likely to get me killed.

>
> > Worship : Elyvilon Life Prot.: . . . Conserve : .
>
> He da bomb, huh?
>

Yep, hands down my favorite god.

> > Str : 19 Weapon : +8,+7 orc scimitar (slice)
>
> Like Johan said, surprisingly weak ego for an endgame weapon. Probably
> not worth it to seek out a speed ego at this point, though; you'll be
> hard-pressed to reach +8,+7 again.

Well, it sounds like I screwed up on this...it started at +1, +2 and I
just went with it when I didn't find any good weapons in the lair or
mines and it was already enchanted to +3,+4 or so from scroll-IDing at
that point. If I do long blades again, I'll probably wait till I've
cleared Hall of Blades and/or Elven Halls to decide to stick with a
weapon.

I do have two +0 katanas(after and a scroll of vorpalize weapon...but
I've burned all my EW scrolls trying to inmprove my weapon from +7, +7
so I don't know if it's worth it to mess around at this point.

> Fairly weak armour for the endgame, so you should be a little cautious.
> If you can loot the bottom of the Slime Pits (i.e. if you have teleport
> control), you might find some missing links. Like a freaking hat!

No such luck unfortunately. Should I burn my 2 remaining ?oEA's on my
vanilla cloak?

> You really don't have any attack wands? Yes, there are rods, but rods
> can run out of MP...

Point taken, I got some wands from my cache.

> > + Level 14 Armour
> > - Level 14 Dodging
>
> I have a rather controversial opinion that, despite being turn-based,
> roguelikes go better if you keep-it-simple-stupid. Therefore, despite
> being a huge Evasion lover, I'd recommend you stick to the Dragon
> armour for the rest of the game, allowing you to concentrate your gray
> matter on things with a higher benefit/rumination ratio than eeking out
> another point of EV from Dodging.

Yeah...I don't have the patience to run around in light armour training
dodging at this point. I *still* am not up to Armour 15 anyway.

>
> > f - Confusing Touch Enchantment Good 1
>
> Hmm, I dunno. Well, you'll be training Enchantments anyway, so
> whatever.

I have only used it to train Enchantments with no glowing...not sure
how useful it is for combat this late in the game.
 >> Stay informed about: YACD: Second three-rune character in as many days; Where to? 

I cleared the Crypts and Slime Pits with ease(Slime Pits were
uneventful with Deflect Missiles+Detect Monsters+Bolt of Fire).

Time to enter Zot? I have tried to fix some of the deficiencies pointed
out in the original dump, but there is only so much I can do given my
equipment--my resistances are inadequate. When should I wear the
lightning resistance amulet? Should I mainline cold protection ring? +5
Evasion seems nice, but I'm not sure whether +0,+6 Slaying or Cold
Protection would be better or not.

I've never been to Zot before. What do I need to watch out for? Any
tactics I should know or preparations I should make?

Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.

Bronco the Swordmaster

Race : Minotaur Res.Fire : + + . See Invis. : .
Class : Monk Res.Cold : x . . Warding : .
Worship : Elyvilon Life Prot.: . . . Conserve : .
Level : 25 Res.Poison: . Res.Corr. : .
Exp : 1037827 Res.Elec. : . Gourmand : .
Next Level : 1050699
Exp Needed : 12872 Sust.Abil.: . Rnd.Telep. : .
Spls.Left : 17 Res.Mut. : + Ctrl.Telep.: .
Gold : 1372 Res.Slow : . Levitation : .
Clarity : . Ctrl.Flight: .
HP : 229
MP : 35
Str : 19 Weapon : +8,+7 orc scimitar (slice)
Int : 7 Armour : +2 dragon armour
Dex : 22 Shield :
AC : 24 Helmet :
Evasion : 20 Cloak : +0 cloak
Shield : 0 Gloves : +2 pair of gloves
Boots : +2 pair of boots (run)
Play time : 14:58:42 Amulet : amulet of resist mutation
Turns : 196254 Ring : +6,+5 ring of slaying
Ring : +5 ring of evasion


You are in the Hall of Blades.
You worship Elyvilon.
Elyvilon is exalted by your worship.
You are full.

Inventory:
Hand weapons
Y - a +8,+7 orcish scimitar of slicing (weapon)
Armour
o - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
V - a +0 cloak (worn)
W - a +2 dragon armour (worn)
Z - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
Magical devices
a - a wand of lightning (3)
i - a wand of fire (5)
G - a wand of hasting (11)
H - a wand of teleportation (3)
N - a wand of digging (5)
X - a wand of cold (7)
Comestibles
z - 2 royal jellies
I - 15 honeycombs
T - 4 meat rations
Scrolls
s - 2 scrolls of identify
x - 3 scrolls of teleportation
B - 4 scrolls of remove curse
Q - 2 scrolls of blinking
Jewellery
b - an amulet of resist mutation (around neck)
l - an amulet of the gourmand
m - the ring of Robustness
(You found it in a Labyrinth)
This ring either protects its wearer from harm or makes them more
vulnerable to injury, to a degree dependent on its power.
It affects your AC (+.
p - a ring of levitation
r - a ring of life protection
u - a ring of protection from cold
v - the ring "Dodequ"
(You bought it in a shop on level 7 of the Elven Halls)
This ring protects its wearer from the loss of their strength,
dexterity
and intelligence.
It protects you from magic.
It prevents most forms of teleportation.

y - a ring of see invisible
A - a +6,+5 ring of slaying (right hand)
D - the amulet of Ug Pitihim
(You found it on level 6 of the Slime Pits)
This amulet protects the armour and weaponry of its wearer from
corrosion
caused by acids, although not infallibly so.
It affects your dexterity (+2).
It makes you susceptible to fire.
It insulates you from electricity.
It protects you from magic.

J - a ring of teleport control
K - a ring of poison resistance
M - an amulet of controlled flight
P - a +5 ring of evasion (left hand)
R - a ring of protection from fire
U - a +0,+6 ring of slaying
Potions
g - a potion of levitation
t - 2 potions of speed
C - 2 potions of might
E - 4 potions of heal wounds
O - a potion of healing
Magical staves
d - a rod of destruction [fire]
(You acquired it on level 27 of the Dungeon)
h - a rod of summoning
(You acquired it on level 5 of the Vaults)
q - a rod of warding
(You acquired it on level 4 of the Swamp)
w - a rod of destruction [inacc,magma,cold]
(You found it on level 16 of the Dungeon)


You have 1 experience left.

Skills:
+ Level 18 Fighting
* Level 27 Long Blades
- Level 2 Crossbows
- Level 3 Darts
- Level 2 Throwing
+ Level 14 Armour
- Level 14 Dodging
- Level 2 Stealth
- Level 1 Stabbing
+ Level 19 Unarmed Combat
+ Level 3 Spellcasting
+ Level 4 Enchantments
+ Level 4 Divinations
+ Level 12 Invocations
+ Level 14 Evocations


You have 17 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

Your Spells Type Success
Level
a - Detect Creatures Divination Good 2
b - Detect Traps Divination Good 2
c - Detect Secret Doors Divination Very Good 1
d - Blink Translocation Very Poor 2
e - Repel Missiles Air/Enchantment Fair 2
f - Confusing Touch Enchantment Very Good 1
g - Silence Air/Enchantment Very Poor 3
 >> Stay informed about: YACD: Second three-rune character in as many days; Where to? 

sterjs.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:
> I cleared the Crypts and Slime Pits with ease(Slime Pits were
> uneventful with Deflect Missiles+Detect Monsters+Bolt of Fire).
>
> Time to enter Zot? I have tried to fix some of the deficiencies pointed
> out in the original dump, but there is only so much I can do given my
> equipment--my resistances are inadequate.

Fortunately, Crawl is less of a "resistances game" than some other
roguelikes; sheer hitpoints, strategic play, etc. can fill in
resistance holes if all else fails. It really *has* to be that way,
since it's harder to guarantee yourself certain kit, especially
resistances kit, than in other roguelikes.

> When should I wear the
> lightning resistance amulet?

Detect Creatures at least once per level in Zot and wear it when an
electric golem is near. Optionally also when a D is near (could be a
storm dragon), although Deflect Missiles can also handle that in a
pinch.

Note that, should you want to check if creatures have moved since your
initial detect, you can clear the previous detection(s) using a special
shortcut key available in all non-old patches (yours will be fine)... I
think it's Ctrl-C.

> Should I mainline cold protection ring? +5
> Evasion seems nice, but I'm not sure whether +0,+6 Slaying or Cold
> Protection would be better or not.

You seem to be cautious enough about detection and ring-swapping. +Ev
or +Slay might be better choices after all.

Regarding your question in the other post about where to spend your
last two Enchant Armour... yes, the cloak. Body armours have a "soft"
limit of +3, so you might lose the second scroll if you beef up your
dragon armour. You could make an Ice Dragon Armour from a hide in Zot
(you'll almost certainly get one), but you'll only get it to +1 --
counting the better base AC, you'll only be back where you started, and
being fire-susceptible in Zot is worse than being cold-susceptible, due
to Orbs of Fire. So beef the cloak for a net +2.

> I've never been to Zot before. What do I need to watch out for?
> tactics I should know or preparations I should make?

Zot 1-4:

* Potions of ordinary healing are less pitiful than usual, since you
have no source of poison resistance and there will be gold dragons down
there. Also, there are Killer Klowns and it's nice to be able to take
off rotting. Ely can handle all of the above, of course, but it's nice
not to have to dip into your piety buffer.
* Be ready for elves, including demonologists.
* Again, Electric Golems. They have good evasion, so you may want to
+to-hit against them over the +evade, as long as your lightning
resistance is covered. (They won't do much damage while it's covered,
either, but the strategic danger of having your amulet slot "pinned" to
+elec because one survived and ran away is important.)

* Zot:5:

The above, plus:

* Z:5 blocks teleport control, if you happen to have it (I might see it
below), so don't expect to be able to rely on it.
* The truly dangerous key portion of Zot:5 is also undiggable...
* ...and full of open spaces and has ranged attackers and sometimes
summoners...
* ...and start with the lower stroke of a "T", with the T's arms
leading to rather
twinnish open areas...
* ...each of which arms has two traps...
* ...that can only be bypassed by blinking.

Considering that either of these two may be Teleportation or Zot traps,
you'll definitely want to determine their type before stepping on them,
and consider taking the other arm of the T if one of them is. (Or blink
until you bypass them, although a) it's probably too late to get Blink
non-glowably castable in your best armour, and and b) the geometry of
the space makes the spots easiest to blink from also the most dangerous
to blink from, since you'll probably end up deep in the open space and
thus perhaps deep in trouble.)

The more monsters you can lure out of the open space you've chosen into
the fat leg of the T before you begin a full-on attack on that open
space, the better. Being noisy, for example, isn't necessarily a bad
thing.

Make it easy on the fingers to swap in the Rod of Warding during the
final assault. Both Abjuration and Deflect Missiles may prove critical.


e.
 >> Stay informed about: YACD: Second three-rune character in as many days; Where to? 

erisdiscordia wrote:
> sterjs DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:

> > [headed for Zot; things to consider?]
> [things to consider]

A few things I realized I should mention after I hit Send...

* Teleport control becomes possible again on Zot:5 once you have the
Orb.
* Having the Orb in your possession will cause demons, everything from
1's to 5's, to gradually be generated around you as you waltz your way
back home. It's no surprise that I forgot to mention it, though, as
generally it won't be anything unhandlable by someone who could handle
the trip to pick up the Orb.
* To make it perfectly clear: both paths out of the leg of the T lead
(through two big open spaces) to the Orb room. And you can wrap back
around from the Orb room into the other set of open spaces, of course,
though there's really no reason to do so unless you're a walking tank
and you're looking for giggles.
* The Orb room itself is a bit of a letdown. It's got hard-hitters, but
they're still less dangerous than what you'll've gone through to get
there. In a pinch, it's even a bit of a breathing space in a few
special crisis situations (e.g. you've got teleportitis and you landed
in there, you were forced to dash through part of the open space
without fighting, etc.).

There's one special ouchy situation that has a small chance of cropping
up -- undesirable traps (especially teleportation) on both arms of the
T. In that case -- haste up (preferably from a potion source, to reduce
the risk of contamination if you have to renew it quickly and often)
and might up, and have a potion of berserk rage or two ready if you
have any and you have an AoRS handy (can't remember). And bite your
tongue.

e.