Wow after lv80

"nuts" <nuspammed.DeleteThis@re.net> wrote in message
news:hc714i$r27$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>I hope nobody takes this as an offence, but since most of you seems to be
>pretty expert players I wanted to ask why so many players stick to Wow
>after they reach lv80.
> I mean, I can see why somebody would want to start over with a new
> character, or even keep playing until they've seen every corner of the
> "world" but what's the point of sticking to your lv80 after that? Why
> should you play an rpg if you can't level?
>
> At first I thought it was for the social part of the game - I've made some
> "friends" too - or for PvPing, but my old lv80 guildees were running the
> same instance over and over so they could all get (almost) the same
> gear... and then move on to the next instance. I didn't dare ask them at
> the time, but... is this actually fun?
>
> I did understand very little when they spoke about stats and gears (there
> seems to be some heavy calculations involved, but I see the same happening
> on this ng and I don't mean to criticize) and how some DPS/mage/whatever
> they played with sucked, etc. but I left under the impression that lv80
> Wow is like a social sport. They reminded me of my parents when they play
> bridge.

I am in the same boat as you. I reached 80 and quit the game almost
immediately after that. I came back with the last expansion and leveled a
DK to 80... then got bored and quit again. I finally realized, I like the
leveling treadmill, not the end game dungeons or BGs. Sure, I would like to
run some instances that I will never get to see due to my equipment and the
time I am willing to commit to the game. Also, most of the people I leveled
with, either quit or started other characters or moved to other servers. I
just started again with a new character, a class I never played before, and
the game is fun again. For me, it is the RPG / leveling that I like, even
though that is just one aspect of the total game.
 >> Stay informed about: Wow after lv80 

nuts <nuspammed.TakeThisOut@re.net> wrote:
> I hope nobody takes this as an offence, but since most of you seems to
> be pretty expert players I wanted to ask why so many players stick to
> Wow after they reach lv80.
>
> At first I thought it was for the social part of the game - I've made
> some "friends" too - or for PvPing, but my old lv80 guildees were
> running the same instance over and over so they could all get (almost)
> the same gear... and then move on to the next instance. I didn't dare
> ask them at the time, but... is this actually fun?

Hmm, playing at level 80 is, at least for me, very social thing. I
usually only log to my main character to do some instances, chat with
guildies or most importantly to raid. And yeah, all these need someone
else around.

We have a very tight-knit group of about 30 people with whom I raid
3 nights a week. Of course the social aspect of the thing is one thing
that keeps me hooked month after month. I could say many of them are
friends, and I do enjoy spending time with them.

The other part of raiding is the challenge. At least the hard mode
encounters are very challenging and quite complex, and it is quite
fun to formulate tactics for that suit our team for them, and then
learn to execute them flawlessly enough that we can beat them.
(And I'd be lying if I'd claim that the competition aspect of it
wouldn't matter. We're not that fast worldwide, but at least in the
server we're at the moment the best or second best raiding guild,
with only heroic 25-man Anub'arak left.) Of course added to this
gearing usually replaces levels for giving the feeling of progression,
though for me it really is just a means to beat the next, harder,
encounter.

I guess eventually when we beat everything we're toning down the
number of raid days, so we're only gearing people to be ready for
Blizzard to release the next content patch with new encounters to
beat.

Of course this is only one meta-game to enjoy at maximum level,
others can have fun in the pvp side competing with others in
arenas or battlegrounds. Or something else totally. One of my
friend is quite a completionist and she's been having fun with
gathering all the achievements, mounts and pets she can.

As for me, the only solo meta-game I really enjoy at maximum level
is playing with the in-game economy and AH. Though it's quite a
fun pastime in itself too, trying to figure new ways to profit or
to make the profit gaining activities faster and more smooth.

--
"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on
society." -Mark Twain
 >> Stay informed about: Wow after lv80 

Your post is interesting to me because I have the exact opposite feelings
you do. For me, the game begins when you hit level 80. The whole leveling
procedure is like the warm-up before a sporting event. Leveling to me is
incredibly boring (especially after the umpteenth time) and easy. If it were
legal to pay someone to level a new character to escape that tedium, than I
would.

At level 80, you're still improving your character, but instead of doing it
through levels, you do it through gear. There are several options to get the
gear you want (e.g., raiding, PVP), either of which is substnatially more
challenging than regular questing.

I also don't think instancing (even heroics) over and over is any fun,
because it's also very easy. Luckily, that phase of gameplay is usually very
short. If you have a decent guild you can skip it altogether and go right to
raiding.

"nuts" <nuspammed RemoveThis @re.net> wrote in message
news:hc714i$r27$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>I hope nobody takes this as an offence, but since most of you seems to be
>pretty expert players I wanted to ask why so many players stick to Wow
>after they reach lv80.
> I mean, I can see why somebody would want to start over with a new
> character, or even keep playing until they've seen every corner of the
> "world" but what's the point of sticking to your lv80 after that? Why
> should you play an rpg if you can't level?
>
> At first I thought it was for the social part of the game - I've made some
> "friends" too - or for PvPing, but my old lv80 guildees were running the
> same instance over and over so they could all get (almost) the same
> gear... and then move on to the next instance. I didn't dare ask them at
> the time, but... is this actually fun?
>
> I did understand very little when they spoke about stats and gears (there
> seems to be some heavy calculations involved, but I see the same happening
> on this ng and I don't mean to criticize) and how some DPS/mage/whatever
> they played with sucked, etc. but I left under the impression that lv80
> Wow is like a social sport. They reminded me of my parents when they play
> bridge.
 >> Stay informed about: Wow after lv80 

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:54:02 -0400, "Brian C"
<notavalidemail DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>Your post is interesting to me because I have the exact opposite feelings
>you do. For me, the game begins when you hit level 80. The whole leveling
>procedure is like the warm-up before a sporting event. Leveling to me is
>incredibly boring (especially after the umpteenth time) and easy. If it were
>legal to pay someone to level a new character to escape that tedium, than I
>would.

Other way round to me - the game doesn't end at 80 but it sure gets
less interesting. Once you're there what is there to do except
repeating stuff over and over, be it dailies, instances, whatever. At
least achievements give me something to do on my main but my alts just
stop playing soon after 80, it's just not really any fun. Which is why
i didn't really bother levelling many characters this time out, I had
loads of 70s stuck with nothing to do in TBC, so why waste time
getting to the same situation in WotLK :-/

>At level 80, you're still improving your character, but instead of doing it
>through levels, you do it through gear. There are several options to get the
>gear you want (e.g., raiding, PVP), either of which is substnatially more
>challenging than regular questing.

True, that's fun, until you hit the glass ceiling where there's no
further upgrades available in the content type you enjoy. I don't
enjoy raiding and burn out way too fast whenever i try it so once I
was geared out of Naxx and my old guild died before Ulduar, that was
the end of it really. And so far I've not been able to motivate myself
to pug-farm heroics for badge gear, guess at least that is now an
option but for several months I had nothing at all available.

>I also don't think instancing (even heroics) over and over is any fun,
>because it's also very easy. Luckily, that phase of gameplay is usually very
>short. If you have a decent guild you can skip it altogether and go right to
>raiding.

But raiding is still doing the same instance over and over, which is
equally boring to me It's nice for the first time, if you don't
spend weeks banging your head off a brick wall on the same boss, but
once it's completed, having to do it over and over and over again to
gear everyone up is mind numbing.
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (80 Undead Priest)
Tairbh (80 Tauren Druid)
Buinne (77 Troll Shaman)
Eilnich (70 Blood Elf Warlock)
Ruire (70 Blood Elf Paladin)
 >> Stay informed about: Wow after lv80 

Catriona R <catrionarNOSPAM.RemoveThis@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:54:02 -0400, "Brian C"
> <notavalidemail.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Your post is interesting to me because I have the exact opposite feelings
>>you do. For me, the game begins when you hit level 80. The whole leveling
>>procedure is like the warm-up before a sporting event. Leveling to me is
>>incredibly boring (especially after the umpteenth time) and easy. If it were
>>legal to pay someone to level a new character to escape that tedium, than I
>>would.
>
> Other way round to me - the game doesn't end at 80 but it sure gets
> less interesting. Once you're there what is there to do except
> repeating stuff over and over, be it dailies, instances, whatever. At
> least achievements give me something to do on my main but my alts just
> stop playing soon after 80, it's just not really any fun. Which is why
> i didn't really bother levelling many characters this time out, I had
> loads of 70s stuck with nothing to do in TBC, so why waste time
> getting to the same situation in WotLK :-/
>

This is where I usually note that we're in no danger of running out of
oatmeal.[1]

One of the marvelous things about WoW, and the reason it appeals to so many
people, is that there are a variety of different games all packaged inside
the world of Azeroth. If you like the levelling game, you make a bunch of
alts. If you like endgame raiding, there's a lot of endgame raiding
options. If you like PVP, there's a number of PVP options.

I, for one, *hate* arenas. I love battlegrounds, but arenas to me are a
pointless waste of time. I have friends who think arenas are the most fun
you can have with your gear on. Different strokes, differen't folks.

If you don't enjoy raiding, don't raid. If you don't enjoy arenas, don't
do arenas. If running dailies is tedious and soul-destroying, don't.

Find the part of the game you enjoy, and enjoy it. If you run entirely out
of things you enjoy, go do something else.

[1] in-joke from else-usenet. "Oh, what a blessing it is we don't all like
the same things," the Scotsman said, "or what a precious shortage of
oatmeal there'd be!"

--
Rob Wynne / The Autographed Cat / doc.RemoveThis@america.net
http://www.autographedcat.com/ / http://autographedcat.livejournal.com/
Gafilk 2010: Jan 8-10, 2010 - Atlanta, GA - http://www.gafilk.org/
Aphelion - Original SF&F since 1997 - http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/
 >> Stay informed about: Wow after lv80 

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:46:41 +0100, nuts wrote:
> I hope nobody takes this as an offence, but since most of you seems to
> be pretty expert players I wanted to ask why so many players stick to
> Wow after they reach lv80.
> I mean, I can see why somebody would want to start over with a new
> character, or even keep playing until they've seen every corner of the
> "world" but what's the point of sticking to your lv80 after that? Why
> should you play an rpg if you can't level?

I think the secret is in your last paragraph.

You think the lack of levelling is a lack of progression. However, at 80
progression is done through gear, so a lot of people play at 80 to improve
their gear (and while raiding is the route that gets you the best available
gear, there are other options, too: reputation, crafting, PvP).

Then there are those who raid not so much for gear but for the challenge,
for these people the progression is reaching the next, harder boss.

Then, what do you consider "having seen every corner of the world"? I'd say
this is the completionists motivation to play (and personally I belong to
this camp

I enjoy doing all available quests, maxing out reputations, learning all
professional recipes (as far as possible without raiding , getting as many
achievments as possible.

Then there are those that enjoy PvP (which I don't much) and like pitting
themselves against others in BGs or Arenas. Progression here may be a
certain amount of honour, specific PvP gear or arena ranking.

As you see, just because you can't level any more, doesn't mean that there
no longer is progression.

And despite this, there are those like you who don't see any fun in playing
a level 80 char (and there are quite a few of those in this group, too) and
who have an army of levelling alts instead, greatly enjoying themselves.

> At first I thought it was for the social part of the game - I've made
> some "friends" too - or for PvPing, but my old lv80 guildees were
> running the same instance over and over so they could all get (almost)
> the same gear... and then move on to the next instance. I didn't dare
> ask them at the time, but... is this actually fun?

For some it is. For some it isn't but they put up with it in order to gear
up so they can start raiding which is their ultimate goal. For some raiding
is again just running the same instance over and over, so these people won't
bother...

For myself, I don't have enough time to run instances over and over again
too close together for that to become a "job" so I don't mind running the
odd heroic I have run before, but I certainly wouldn't run them repeatedly
even if I had the time.

I like going on the occasional 10 man fun raid, but the few times I have been
able to get a spot in a 25 man progression run I found there was far too
much pressure to be my best, not to screw up etc that I doubt I would find
competitive raiding fun (and hence it is a good thing I don't have time for
it

> I did understand very little when they spoke about stats and gears
> (there seems to be some heavy calculations involved, but I see the same
> happening on this ng and I don't mean to criticize) and how some
> DPS/mage/whatever they played with sucked, etc. but I left under the
> impression that lv80 Wow is like a social sport. They reminded me of my
> parents when they play bridge.

If you want to take gearing up as progression to replace levelling
progression you will need to know which item is an upgrade to what you have
(unlike levelling it is not just "1 level higher than before" so you need
to learn a little about the game mechanics.

Some take this relatively easy (I know my hunter wants +hit to the cap, then
+AP, +crit, +AGI, the order may be debatable; I don't care about +str, +spi
etc; +int and +sta is debatable) while others take this to the extreme (they
would know if +4 agi is better than +7 crit). Again, if this is not fun to
you, there is no need to do it.


As others mentioned, the success of WoW comes from the fact that the game
offers so many different things to do according to your preference and time
budget. Do what is fun and if it isn't fun do something elese. If nothing is
fun, stop playing, that is a valid choice, too

Cheers
Urbin
--
Dun Morogh-EU (PvE)
Urbin (80), Dwarven Hunter | Surana (64), Draenei Mage
Mymule (80), Gnomish Warlock | Kordosch (65), Human Death Knight
Sunh (7, Nightelven Priest | Juran (33), Nightelven Druid
 >> Stay informed about: Wow after lv80 

nuts <nuspammed.TakeThisOut@re.net> wrote:
> I hope nobody takes this as an offence, but since most of you seems to
> be pretty expert players I wanted to ask why so many players stick to
> Wow after they reach lv80.
> I mean, I can see why somebody would want to start over with a new
> character, or even keep playing until they've seen every corner of the
> "world" but what's the point of sticking to your lv80 after that? Why
> should you play an rpg if you can't level?
>

It's not all about levelling! For me it's about several things.

First and foremost is the challenges of the raid bosses. Even now
after almost a year of being level 80 there are some raid bosses that
I and my guild haven't conquered (Yogg Saron in Ulduar 25-man, Some
ToC-25 heroic, some of the Ulduar hard-mode bosses).

There is a great feeling of accomplishment when your team of raiders
finally gets a boss down after weeks of trying, and this is the main
thing that keeps me playing, and I suspect it's the same for a
majority of raiders out there.

Then there's the social aspect - over the almost 5 years I've been
playing I've gained some good online friends.

In addition to that is the attraction of better gear - there are
always gear upgrades to be found on those harder raid bosses! There
is something oddly motivating about more powerful items.

--
Zil, Level 80 NE Priest, Aman Shan're, Stormrage Europe
 >> Stay informed about: Wow after lv80 

Urbin <urbin.TakeThisOut@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>And despite this, there are those like you who don't see any fun in playing
>a level 80 char (and there are quite a few of those in this group, too) and
>who have an army of levelling alts instead, greatly enjoying themselves.

And there are some who try to do both. I didn't start playing until TBC.
When I hit 70, my rogue was my "main" in Karazhan, etc. He was also my
first 80. Oddly, when we got into Naxx, I took my warlock since he was
slightly better geared at the time. Lately I've been gearing my death
knight to tank, although I haven't made it to anything other than OS10 with
him.

And from my sig, it's probably obvious that I've got a few more up and
coming as time permits. I do like to try out different classes and
mechanics as well.


--
Mertuka - Rogue (80) : Mallan - Priest (4 : Medanu - Druid (55)
Ralinth - Warlock (80) : Magorg - Hunter (4 : Ralethian - Paladin (60)
Rakhalga - DK (80) : Meedak - Mage (60) : Rahuraluna - Shaman (60)
Relikag - Warrior (10)
 >> Stay informed about: Wow after lv80 

I'm motivated more as a completionist - I want to get all the
professions leveled to 450 and all the recipes and do all the quests and
get all the achievements


Brian
 >> Stay informed about: Wow after lv80 

Fvert wrote:
> I'm motivated more as a completionist - I want to get all the
> professions leveled to 450 and all the recipes

I'd love it if you *could* do that, learn all the recipes for all the
professions, and keep them when you drop that profession. You'd still
have a long and expensive grind to level a profession back up, of
course, so it wouldn't *totally* destroy the economy. Just mostly...
 >> Stay informed about: Wow after lv80 

On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:19:54 +0000, Cradok <iantait DeleteThis @eircom.net> wrote:

>Fvert wrote:
>> I'm motivated more as a completionist - I want to get all the
>> professions leveled to 450 and all the recipes
>
>I'd love it if you *could* do that, learn all the recipes for all the
>professions, and keep them when you drop that profession. You'd still
>have a long and expensive grind to level a profession back up, of
>course, so it wouldn't *totally* destroy the economy. Just mostly...

Yeah, you have to have a nice collection of alts to be able to do that
though. I've got all but engineering at 440+ now so getting there, but
it's a bit of a nuisance needing umpteen alts to cover them all.
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (80 Undead Priest)
Tairbh (80 Tauren Druid)
Buinne (78 Troll Shaman)
Eilnich (70 Blood Elf Warlock)
Ruire (70 Blood Elf Paladin)
 >> Stay informed about: Wow after lv80 

Catriona R wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:19:54 +0000, Cradok <iantait.DeleteThis@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> Fvert wrote:
>>> I'm motivated more as a completionist - I want to get all the
>>> professions leveled to 450 and all the recipes
>> I'd love it if you *could* do that, learn all the recipes for all the
>> professions, and keep them when you drop that profession. You'd still
>> have a long and expensive grind to level a profession back up, of
>> course, so it wouldn't *totally* destroy the economy. Just mostly...
>
> Yeah, you have to have a nice collection of alts to be able to do that
> though. I've got all but engineering at 440+ now so getting there, but
> it's a bit of a nuisance needing umpteen alts to cover them all.

I'm an altphobic, though. I usually give up somewhere between 10 and 20.
I'm doing a push to get as many up to 20 as possible before Winter Veil,
so I have the best chance of getting all the pets, assuming they don't
change things around.
 >> Stay informed about: Wow after lv80 

On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:27:21 +0000, Catriona R wrote:
>
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:19:54 +0000, Cradok <iantait.DeleteThis@eircom.net> wrote:
>
> >Fvert wrote:
> >> I'm motivated more as a completionist - I want to get all the
> >> professions leveled to 450 and all the recipes
> >
> >I'd love it if you *could* do that, learn all the recipes for all the
> >professions, and keep them when you drop that profession. You'd still
> >have a long and expensive grind to level a profession back up, of
> >course, so it wouldn't *totally* destroy the economy. Just mostly...
>
> Yeah, you have to have a nice collection of alts to be able to do that
> though.

Yes, that is my current motivation to bring my alts to 80. They are unlikely
to ever see a heroic instance from the inside on a regular basis, but I want
them at 80 to max out as much of their professions as possible short of
raiding.

> I've got all but engineering at 440+ now so getting there, but
> it's a bit of a nuisance needing umpteen alts to cover them all.

Hehe, I'm nowhere near close enough.

Herbalism & Alchemy 450/450, got all Northrend alchemy recipes available
outside raids but am missing quite a few vanilla and BC ones (rep + world
drops).

Mining 450/450 & Jewelcrafting 440+/450 but weeks of dailies to do for all
the cuts and then the decision whether to start a second toon in WG for the
PvP cuts. JC is missing a lot of BC recipes.

Tailoring 445/450 & Enchanting 435+/450, still a few zones short of the
Northrend Loremaster dependent cloak and three factions short of exalted for
some recipes. Missing quite a few vanilla and BC recipes (rep & world
drops).

Mining 375/375 & Engineering 371/375, on my level 64 mage, the next to start
her trip to 80 and 450

Herbalism 390+/450 & Inscription 430+/450 on my level 65 DK, currently on
hold due to time constraints

Skinning ~120 & Leatherworking ~30 on my level 14 Rogue, in the far distance

I'm not going to start a blacksmith any time soon but my Worgen Warrior
might try it With two miners he should at least get a good supply to
start with...

Cheers
Urbin
--
Dun Morogh-EU (PvE)
Urbin (80), Dwarven Hunter | Surana (64), Draenei Mage
Mymule (80), Gnomish Warlock | Kordosch (65), Human Death Knight
Sunh (7, Nightelven Priest | Juran (33), Nightelven Druid
 >> Stay informed about: Wow after lv80