Worlds & maps in Civ4

> Barbarians are a major pain, which is why I don't disable
> themwhen I set
> up a game. They are an excellent early challenge, and you migth
> get some really experienced troops to fight invading neighbours
> later on. Öjevind

I always make a few extra military units, any type, and leave them
just outside my capital city. When barbarian are sighted (watch
those red messages), send the mobile group to deal with them, and
attack the barbarians -- don't wait for them to trash your farms and
such.

When my mobile group unit count is five, I feel safe from
barbarians. When it grows to 20 units I feel safe from invasion.
When it grows to 30 units, I look around for neighboring nations to
"rescue," and give them (my) better government. Just to help the
little people, of course.
 >> Stay informed about: Worlds & maps in Civ4 

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:45:00 +0100, Jan Hyde
<StellaDrinker RemoveThis @REMOVE.ME.uboot.com> wrote:

>Eddie Grove <eddiegrove RemoveThis @hot.NOSPAM.mail.com>'s wild thoughts
>were released on Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:17:25 -0700 bearing the
>following fruit:
>
>>Jan Hyde <StellaDrinker RemoveThis @REMOVE.ME.uboot.com> writes:
>>
>>> I switch barbarians off, they *always* appear just as I
>>> found a new city, usually the best unit I have by that point
>>> is a bowman, either way they always seem to win and take my
>>> city.
>>>
>>> I just can't seem to develop enough defenses in time.
>>
>>You need to send out archers and fortify them on hills. Barbarians do
>>not spawn in visible areas, and the ones that come from further out
>>may attack the lookouts. If any scouts survive long enough, you can
>>use them as lookouts too.
>
>I tried that and fought them off for a quite a while but
>they just kept coming, from all sides. I was spending all my
>resources replacing the lookouts.
>
>I must be doing something fundamentally wrong I guess, I
>don't tend to play for war prefering other win conditions.

Barbarians are very much map dependent. If the map is filled up
with AI players and you, there is little room for barbarians. If
there is a lot of open space, and you don't have enough units to
secure your territory with lookouts (and that can be hard on a big
map), you're gonna get barbs all over.

Barbarians are also affected by tech research. You can delay their
appearance by not researching military techs. Of course, the AI
players may not delay as you do, so you can't keep them out forever
this way unless you are playing a solo vs barbarians game (one player,
no AI). In fact, such a game is good practice for fighting
barbarians, since no other enemies matter.

The key trick to stop them entirely is expansion. Build enough
units to clear space so you can plant new cities, then claim enough
territory that there is little or no black space to threaten you.
Even if you can't do it entirely, getting an entire region secure to
the sea can make it much easier to fight the barbarians on the other
side.

Going for bronze working, then archery if needed, gives you a better
force to counter the barbarians than just archery. Axemen can defend
against any of the early era barbarians, and you'll need them to stop
barbarian axemen and swordsmen (iron working).
--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>
 >> Stay informed about: Worlds & maps in Civ4 

Jeffery S. Jones wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:45:00 +0100, Jan Hyde
> <StellaDrinker.DeleteThis@REMOVE.ME.uboot.com> wrote:
>
> >Eddie Grove <eddiegrove.DeleteThis@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com>'s wild thoughts
> >were released on Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:17:25 -0700 bearing the
> >following fruit:
> >
> >>Jan Hyde <StellaDrinker.DeleteThis@REMOVE.ME.uboot.com> writes:
> >>
> >>> I switch barbarians off, they *always* appear just as I
> >>> found a new city, usually the best unit I have by that point
> >>> is a bowman, either way they always seem to win and take my
> >>> city.
> >>>
> >>> I just can't seem to develop enough defenses in time.
> >>
> >>You need to send out archers and fortify them on hills. Barbarians do
> >>not spawn in visible areas, and the ones that come from further out
> >>may attack the lookouts. If any scouts survive long enough, you can
> >>use them as lookouts too.
> >
> >I tried that and fought them off for a quite a while but
> >they just kept coming, from all sides. I was spending all my
> >resources replacing the lookouts.
> >
> >I must be doing something fundamentally wrong I guess, I
> >don't tend to play for war prefering other win conditions.
>
> Barbarians are very much map dependent. If the map is filled up
> with AI players and you, there is little room for barbarians. If
> there is a lot of open space, and you don't have enough units to
> secure your territory with lookouts (and that can be hard on a big
> map), you're gonna get barbs all over.
>
> Barbarians are also affected by tech research. You can delay their
> appearance by not researching military techs. Of course, the AI
> players may not delay as you do, so you can't keep them out forever
> this way unless you are playing a solo vs barbarians game (one player,
> no AI). In fact, such a game is good practice for fighting
> barbarians, since no other enemies matter.
>
> The key trick to stop them entirely is expansion. Build enough
> units to clear space so you can plant new cities, then claim enough
> territory that there is little or no black space to threaten you.
> Even if you can't do it entirely, getting an entire region secure to
> the sea can make it much easier to fight the barbarians on the other
> side.
>
> Going for bronze working, then archery if needed, gives you a better
> force to counter the barbarians than just archery. Axemen can defend
> against any of the early era barbarians, and you'll need them to stop
> barbarian axemen and swordsmen (iron working).
> --
> *-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
> ** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
> *Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>

I reckon the key strategy in this game is flexibility. Because i am
newish i was not doing so well.... what I have started doing is playing
a random player at warlord level. Whats beacome obvious is that there
is no one way to play. Be adaptive! if you find a hut that gives you a
tech or a resource thats well placed exploit the advantage ! Also use
the special abilities of the person youre playing. in fact look for an
advantage in everything that happens eg trading technologies. i end up
with some odd looking civs - Mongolians without horse type things -
grins. With this approach i seem to prosper even if I dont often get
outright victory. [ my best result was with the Malinese - diplomatic
victory in 1934] brag ! oh i dont cheat in any way except to restore if
a real disaster occurs.

The barbarians are like this also... make use of terrain advantages and
faster units also seem to help.
 >> Stay informed about: Worlds & maps in Civ4 

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 12:45:44 +0200, "Öjevind Lång"
<bredband.net.RemoveThis@ojevind.lang> wrote:

>"Craig Richardson" <richardson.RemoveThis@net-venture.com> skrev i meddelandet
>news:vo72f297ufvjiml1i3bhpa3c9qetf8083v@4ax.com...
>
>[snip]
>
>> For some value of "small continent", "Islands" fits the bill. Enough
>> space for six to eight cities. I prefer it, as it's just the right
>> size to avoid barbarian entanglements while still giving you a decent
>> chance of winning a spaceship victory.
>
>What other settings? Normal world size, normal sea level?

All defaults except for difficulty level.

--Craig
 >> Stay informed about: Worlds & maps in Civ4 

"Craig Richardson" <richardson DeleteThis @net-venture.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:vh6nf29sckju5kvro9p0m933ha2kcs1plb@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 12:45:44 +0200, "Öjevind Lång"
> <bredband.net DeleteThis @ojevind.lang> wrote:
>
>>"Craig Richardson" <richardson DeleteThis @net-venture.com> skrev i meddelandet
>>news:vo72f297ufvjiml1i3bhpa3c9qetf8083v@4ax.com...
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>> For some value of "small continent", "Islands" fits the bill. Enough
>>> space for six to eight cities. I prefer it, as it's just the right
>>> size to avoid barbarian entanglements while still giving you a decent
>>> chance of winning a spaceship victory.
>>
>>What other settings? Normal world size, normal sea level?
>
> All defaults except for difficulty level.

Thanks. I must try it. Sounds like a job for Gandhi, or perhaps Rosoevelt.
Öjevind
 >> Stay informed about: Worlds & maps in Civ4 

Jeffery S. Jones <jeffsj.DeleteThis@execpc.com>'s wild thoughts were
released on Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:11:03 -0500 bearing the
following fruit:

>On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:45:00 +0100, Jan Hyde
><StellaDrinker.DeleteThis@REMOVE.ME.uboot.com> wrote:
>
>>Eddie Grove <eddiegrove.DeleteThis@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com>'s wild thoughts
>>were released on Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:17:25 -0700 bearing the
>>following fruit:
>>
>>>Jan Hyde <StellaDrinker.DeleteThis@REMOVE.ME.uboot.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> I switch barbarians off, they *always* appear just as I
>>>> found a new city, usually the best unit I have by that point
>>>> is a bowman, either way they always seem to win and take my
>>>> city.
>>>>
>>>> I just can't seem to develop enough defenses in time.
>>>
>>>You need to send out archers and fortify them on hills. Barbarians do
>>>not spawn in visible areas, and the ones that come from further out
>>>may attack the lookouts. If any scouts survive long enough, you can
>>>use them as lookouts too.
>>
>>I tried that and fought them off for a quite a while but
>>they just kept coming, from all sides. I was spending all my
>>resources replacing the lookouts.
>>
>>I must be doing something fundamentally wrong I guess, I
>>don't tend to play for war prefering other win conditions.
>
> Barbarians are very much map dependent. If the map is filled up
>with AI players and you, there is little room for barbarians. If
>there is a lot of open space, and you don't have enough units to
>secure your territory with lookouts (and that can be hard on a big
>map), you're gonna get barbs all over.

I always go for large maps with slow tech advancement, I
like a long game.

> Barbarians are also affected by tech research. You can delay their
>appearance by not researching military techs. Of course, the AI
>players may not delay as you do, so you can't keep them out forever
>this way unless you are playing a solo vs barbarians game (one player,
>no AI). In fact, such a game is good practice for fighting
>barbarians, since no other enemies matter.
>
> The key trick to stop them entirely is expansion. Build enough
>units to clear space so you can plant new cities, then claim enough
>territory that there is little or no black space to threaten you.
>Even if you can't do it entirely, getting an entire region secure to
>the sea can make it much easier to fight the barbarians on the other
>side.
>
> Going for bronze working, then archery if needed, gives you a better
>force to counter the barbarians than just archery. Axemen can defend
>against any of the early era barbarians, and you'll need them to stop
>barbarian axemen and swordsmen (iron working).

I always go for archery first, so I'll definitely try bronze
working first.



Jan Hyde (VB MVP)

--
A princess gets her education one knight at a time. (J. A. Mc.)
 >> Stay informed about: Worlds & maps in Civ4 

"Jan Hyde" <StellaDrinker DeleteThis @REMOVE.ME.uboot.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:kqjof2hqppmv56mtq1ikag5ld248fo12v9@4ax.com...

[snip]

>> Going for bronze working, then archery if needed, gives you a better
>>force to counter the barbarians than just archery. Axemen can defend
>>against any of the early era barbarians, and you'll need them to stop
>>barbarian axemen and swordsmen (iron working).
>
> I always go for archery first, so I'll definitely try bronze
> working first.

Let's hope there is any bronze near your capital or other early city;
otherwise you can get truly cooked.

Öjevind
 >> Stay informed about: Worlds & maps in Civ4 

On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 09:57:30 +0200, "Öjevind Lång"
<bredband.net DeleteThis @ojevind.lang> wrote:

>"Craig Richardson" <richardson DeleteThis @net-venture.com> skrev i meddelandet
>news:vh6nf29sckju5kvro9p0m933ha2kcs1plb@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 12:45:44 +0200, "Öjevind Lång"
>> <bredband.net DeleteThis @ojevind.lang> wrote:
>>
>>>"Craig Richardson" <richardson DeleteThis @net-venture.com> skrev i meddelandet
>>>news:vo72f297ufvjiml1i3bhpa3c9qetf8083v@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>> For some value of "small continent", "Islands" fits the bill. Enough
>>>> space for six to eight cities. I prefer it, as it's just the right
>>>> size to avoid barbarian entanglements while still giving you a decent
>>>> chance of winning a spaceship victory.
>>>
>>>What other settings? Normal world size, normal sea level?
>>
>> All defaults except for difficulty level.
>
>Thanks. I must try it. Sounds like a job for Gandhi, or perhaps Rosoevelt.

Fair warning: you're particularly at the mercy of the map generator,
because you can't just skip around a huge swath of desert/tundra, you
have to live there.

OTOH, I'm thinking that it might be a way to take a shot at Deity.
Formerly, I put the "tiny islands" selector at max, and tried a
trading strategy. But now I'm thinking just the opposite - no tiny
islands (which, in reality, means "minimal", not "none at all"). Then
not only am I relatively safe from barbarians (completely safe once
the whole island is in line-of-sight), but I don't have to worry about
an invasion until some enemy both has Galleons and knows where I am,
the AI trading with each other is minimized, and I can have a religion
for centuries without worrying about offending anyone.

--Craig
 >> Stay informed about: Worlds & maps in Civ4 

"Öjevind Lång" <bredband.net RemoveThis @ojevind.lang> skrev i meddelandet
news:4m32r4F4beffU1@individual.net...

[snip]
>
>>> Going for bronze working, then archery if needed, gives you a better
>>>force to counter the barbarians than just archery. Axemen can defend
>>>against any of the early era barbarians, and you'll need them to stop
>>>barbarian axemen and swordsmen (iron working).
>>
>> I always go for archery first, so I'll definitely try bronze
>> working first.
>
> Let's hope there is any bronze near your capital or other early city;
> otherwise you can get truly cooked.

Come to think of it, the AI civs always seem to go for Bronze Working as
soon as they can, so perhaps they (or rather, the game's programmers) know
something... Unless it's simply because Bronze Working also entails Slavery:
sacrifing population for warriors/archers.

Öjevind
 >> Stay informed about: Worlds & maps in Civ4 

On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 17:09:32 +0100, Jan Hyde
<StellaDrinker.DeleteThis@REMOVE.ME.uboot.com> wrote:

>Jeffery S. Jones <jeffsj.DeleteThis@execpc.com>'s wild thoughts were
>released on Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:11:03 -0500 bearing the
>following fruit:
>
>>On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:45:00 +0100, Jan Hyde
>><StellaDrinker.DeleteThis@REMOVE.ME.uboot.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Eddie Grove <eddiegrove.DeleteThis@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com>'s wild thoughts
>>>were released on Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:17:25 -0700 bearing the
>>>following fruit:
>>>
>>>>Jan Hyde <StellaDrinker.DeleteThis@REMOVE.ME.uboot.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> I switch barbarians off, they *always* appear just as I
>>>>> found a new city, usually the best unit I have by that point
>>>>> is a bowman, either way they always seem to win and take my
>>>>> city.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just can't seem to develop enough defenses in time.
>>>>
>>>>You need to send out archers and fortify them on hills. Barbarians do
>>>>not spawn in visible areas, and the ones that come from further out
>>>>may attack the lookouts. If any scouts survive long enough, you can
>>>>use them as lookouts too.
>>>
>>>I tried that and fought them off for a quite a while but
>>>they just kept coming, from all sides. I was spending all my
>>>resources replacing the lookouts.
>>>
>>>I must be doing something fundamentally wrong I guess, I
>>>don't tend to play for war prefering other win conditions.
>>
>> Barbarians are very much map dependent. If the map is filled up
>>with AI players and you, there is little room for barbarians. If
>>there is a lot of open space, and you don't have enough units to
>>secure your territory with lookouts (and that can be hard on a big
>>map), you're gonna get barbs all over.
>
>I always go for large maps with slow tech advancement, I
>like a long game.

Slowing the game speed will give you more barbarians, unfortunately.
At least, unless it gets fixed in a patch, the barbarians pop up about
as often in turns in slower games, while you take longer to build
units to fight them. It isn't too bad, but it does require adjusting
for.

>> Barbarians are also affected by tech research. You can delay their
>>appearance by not researching military techs. Of course, the AI
>>players may not delay as you do, so you can't keep them out forever
>>this way unless you are playing a solo vs barbarians game (one player,
>>no AI). In fact, such a game is good practice for fighting
>>barbarians, since no other enemies matter.
>>
>> The key trick to stop them entirely is expansion. Build enough
>>units to clear space so you can plant new cities, then claim enough
>>territory that there is little or no black space to threaten you.
>>Even if you can't do it entirely, getting an entire region secure to
>>the sea can make it much easier to fight the barbarians on the other
>>side.
>>
>> Going for bronze working, then archery if needed, gives you a better
>>force to counter the barbarians than just archery. Axemen can defend
>>against any of the early era barbarians, and you'll need them to stop
>>barbarian axemen and swordsmen (iron working).
>
>I always go for archery first, so I'll definitely try bronze
>working first.

Bronze Working is a major powerup tech. It enables forest chopping
and slavery, both of which let you build units and other things faster
when needed. While archers are decent at city defense, they aren't so
hot at offense. Axemen are quite good offensively, but you must find
copper (or iron) in order to use them. If you don't have a source of
copper you can research iron working, but that beefs up the barbarians
too. Still, some AI is going to do it sooner or later. You may as
well take advantage of the situation, if you need military power, and
get iron as well as copper, plus Swordsmen. Those rock at taking
cities, and put you in a position to conquer a neighbor, or take out
barbarians fairly easily.

--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>
 >> Stay informed about: Worlds & maps in Civ4