What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest?

>> After Ludios (if it's there), you should try for the isle. you need a
>> blindfold/towel or reflection and levitation/water walking for that. If you
>> don't have reflection, put the blindfold/towel on before you enter the room
>> on the opposite side. You can get reflection in this area if you don't
>> already, just look for a person from greek Mythology.
>
> I'd also go to the Castle before Ludios to get the wand of wishing and
> pick up SDSM; while the statue might provide you with reflection, the
> shield will hurt your spellcasting pretty significantly. All you need
> to get into the Castle is an instrument...

I do have one, but I was planning to try the quest as soon as I get to
XL 14 because of my artifact. Or should I wait?

>>> Now I'm going to dive deeper into the dungeon, eventually trying for
>>> The Eye when I reach Lvl 14 and find the quest portal. However, I'm
>>> noticing killing things takes longer and longer at the moment (but
>>> maybe I'm just biased, #twoweapon +7 Firebrand and +7 silver saber
>>> might make a bad comparison from my last ascension...)--I wonder
>>> whether I should start switching to spell-casting?
>>>
>> Yes. What is your strength? Unless it is over 18, melee is pointless.
>> BTW you should have cold,fire, and sleep resistance, clairvoyance and
>> possibly shock resistance by now. If not get them from "non-animal"
>> corpses. Just don't eat any non-safe fungi or zombies.
>
> By clairvoyance I am guessing chuckcar means telepathy; picking up
> clairvoyance is a fair bit harder Personally I wouldn't worry about
> the damage you are dealing unless it doesn't stack up well against the
> damage you are taking. If you need to hit something five times before
> it falls down but it isn't hurting you, who cares? If it is, consider
> alternate strategies. Personally, I'd enchant my dagger stack, but if
> you have good spells (magic missile, charm monster) it might be worth
> going caster instead.

Hopefully If so, I do have it (except shock). I'm hoping to pick up
clairvoyance with that hat later on if possible, too, but so far I
haven't found one...

Thanks!
Daniel

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 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

On 2008-02-07, Daniel Kraft wrote:
>> I'd also go to the Castle before Ludios to get the wand of wishing and
>> pick up SDSM; while the statue might provide you with reflection, the
>> shield will hurt your spellcasting pretty significantly. All you need
>> to get into the Castle is an instrument...
>
> I do have one, but I was planning to try the quest as soon as I get to
> XL 14 because of my artifact. Or should I wait?

There's nothing wrong with doing the quest when reaching XL14; as you say, the
reward is high, and the wizard quest isn't particularly difficult. But XL14
takes some time to reach, and if you should find yourself short of potions of
gain level or foocubi, there's also nothing wrong with going to the castle
first, although magic resistence and a good AC are very advisable to have
there.

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 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

Doug Freyburger wrote:
> Daniel Kraft <d... RemoveThis @domob.eu> wrote:
>>>> I got lucky to find +3 elven mithril and a +5 orcish helm early on lying
>>>> around in the dungeon, so currently I have good AC (somewhere below -4 I
>>>> think, got some pieces thoroughly rusted/burnt). I got dagger up to
>>>> Expert, and currently I fight with Sting and my stack of daggers; I just
>>>> lost my pet, but didn't depend much on it lately.
>>> The AC is just about OK.
>
> Being a wizard and thus favoring ranged combat, effect on
> spell casting eventually starts to take precedence over
> numerical AC IMO. Around XP 11 I think it's time to start
> trading in armor items for ones that don't interfere.

Ok, this is what I just started. I'm currently looting through all
leather armour I find to see if there's enchanted one.

>> You'll probably want to replace Sting rather sooner
>>> than later, since it isn't really a good melee weapon.
>> Hm, what would be a better choice that is readily available? I suppose
>> Sting is better than any ordinary foo-dagger, isn't it? Should I bother
>> with swords or a weapon other than dagger as wizard and at this stage,
>> or do you simply mean Magicbane?
>
> There are those who say to never unwield Magicbane. It's not
> a bad strategy. As a wizard you're supposed to evolve a
> ranged combat strategy.

I think I'll do it probably like this... Doesn't Magicbane provide
magic resistance? If I pick up SDSM, could I swap the CoMR for
displacement (maybe, if I don't really want MC3) and rely on Magicbane,
or is this a bad idea?

>>> Also, you'll definitely need better attack spells to go caster. So the
>>> answer depends mostly on the availability of good armor and magic markers,
>>> and your willingness to spend a lot of time acquiring and organizing
>>> items and possibly altar dancing for AC and spellbooks.
>> I do have two cursed markers and saw one (probably uncursed) in a shop,
>> so I could try blanking some spellbook (should have double ones) and
>> writing magic missile...
>
> Go for writing magic missile ...
>
>> Can I try immediatelly or do I have to raise
>> my luck first, as I've just found the luckstone?
>
> ... As soon as you've maxed out luck then switch armor types.

Thanks, I'll try.

>>>> BTW, how will Magicbane compare to Sting as melee-weapon once I find a
>>>> co-aligned altar?
>>> Very favourably. Go for it as soon as possible. Don't wait for a coaligned
>>> altar, convert an unattended one.
>> Unfortunatelly, the only altar I found so far (down to Sokoban) is the
>> one in Mine Town, and it is cross aligned... But I hope I do have
>> better luck in the dungeon!
>
> Take every missile weapon and go convert that altar using ranged
> combat.
> So what that you won't ever enhance dart or rock, have so many
> available
> there's no doubt the priest will be dead before you've thrown a tenth
> of the
> ammo you've collected near there.

What about casting drain life? I think this lowers his max HP and thus
he can not fully recover from this? Or do priests resist such spells?

On the other hand, I'm not sure whether I'll need him later for
protection... Haven't found any other temple so far, or would you think
the conversion is more important?

BTW, unforunatelly I just got a -15 alignment hit from killing my pet by
accident... How can I assure I've positive alignment again? Can I pray
with negative alignment and/or negative luck to find out (assuming
prayer timeout is zero, of course)?

Daniel

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 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

In article <foenv2$thk$1@newsreader1.xoc.utanet.at>,
Daniel Kraft <d RemoveThis @domob.eu> wrote:
>Doug Freyburger wrote:
>> Daniel Kraft <d... RemoveThis @domob.eu> wrote:
>>>>> I got lucky to find +3 elven mithril and a +5 orcish helm early on lying
>>>>> around in the dungeon, so currently I have good AC (somewhere below -4 I
>>>>> think, got some pieces thoroughly rusted/burnt). I got dagger up to
>>>>> Expert, and currently I fight with Sting and my stack of daggers; I just
>>>>> lost my pet, but didn't depend much on it lately.
>>>> The AC is just about OK.
>>
>> Being a wizard and thus favoring ranged combat, effect on
>> spell casting eventually starts to take precedence over
>> numerical AC IMO. Around XP 11 I think it's time to start
>> trading in armor items for ones that don't interfere.
>
>Ok, this is what I just started. I'm currently looting through all
>leather armour I find to see if there's enchanted one.

Have you come across enchant armor yet? How about holy water? I know
that you can't make it yet, but sometime shops have a vial.

>> There are those who say to never unwield Magicbane. It's not
>> a bad strategy. As a wizard you're supposed to evolve a
>> ranged combat strategy.
>
>I think I'll do it probably like this... Doesn't Magicbane provide
>magic resistance? If I pick up SDSM, could I swap the CoMR for
>displacement (maybe, if I don't really want MC3) and rely on Magicbane,
>or is this a bad idea?

Bad idea IMHO. The CoMR with MC3 and MR is the right garment.

[SNIP]

>>>>> BTW, how will Magicbane compare to Sting as melee-weapon once I find a
>>>>> co-aligned altar?
>>>> Very favourably. Go for it as soon as possible. Don't wait for a coaligned
>>>> altar, convert an unattended one.
>>> Unfortunatelly, the only altar I found so far (down to Sokoban) is the
>>> one in Mine Town, and it is cross aligned... But I hope I do have
>>> better luck in the dungeon!
>>
>> Take every missile weapon and go convert that altar using ranged
>> combat.
>> So what that you won't ever enhance dart or rock, have so many
>> available
>> there's no doubt the priest will be dead before you've thrown a tenth
>> of the
>> ammo you've collected near there.
>
>What about casting drain life? I think this lowers his max HP and thus
>he can not fully recover from this? Or do priests resist such spells?

Of course they resist such spells. Killing priests is an aggravating
exercise. And I think the point you make below is relevant.

>On the other hand, I'm not sure whether I'll need him later for
>protection...

Yes. And think now instead of later. You only need $4400 to buy 2-4
points. What else are you going to do with money?

Get yourself another familiar and clean out a shop or two.

>Haven't found any other temple so far, or would you think
>the conversion is more important?

I'd go looking for an altar in the main dungeon and leave the priest
(who may theoretically be the only one other than the priest of Moloch
in the VotD.) alone.

>BTW, unforunatelly I just got a -15 alignment hit from killing my pet by
>accident... How can I assure I've positive alignment again?

Kill monsters.

>Can I pray
>with negative alignment and/or negative luck to find out (assuming
>prayer timeout is zero, of course)?

Kill monsters. Enlightnment is a really good spell/wand to have.

Don't overdo it. Keep your AC negative while ditching the mithril. With
a +5 helm it shouldn't be that hard to do.

Work on holy water, enchant armor, and buying some protection.

Find an empty altar. Also get a new familiar.

You should be fine as long as your spellcasting failure rate is low and
you think ranged first.

BAJ
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

Rachel Elizabeth Dillon <rachel.RemoveThis@akrasiac.org> wrote in
news:slrnfql1so.te1.rachel@autumnfox.akrasiac.org:

> On 2008-02-07, chuckcar <chuck.RemoveThis@nil.car> wrote:
>> Daniel Kraft <d.RemoveThis@domob.eu> wrote in
>> news:fochti$p8n$1@newsreader1.xoc.utanet.at:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm finally again trying to ascend my first Wizard... So far I had
>>> only success with fighter classes. I've just finished Mine's End
>>> (Sokoban already done), and are a Lvl 11 elven wizard.
>>>
>>> I got lucky to find +3 elven mithril and a +5 orcish helm early on
>>> lying around in the dungeon, so currently I have good AC (somewhere
>>> below -4 I think, got some pieces thoroughly rusted/burnt).
>>
>> Now is the time to corrode-fix the helm at least. If you know
>> how learn which scrolls are enchant armor, identify, remove curse and
>> enchant weapon. Preferably any external armor, find a tshirt and
>> enchant your armor to around -15 AC if you can. Once you're that high
>> and foo-proofed, you're pretty well safe. Certainly from a surprise
>> melee you can't run from. Did you get reflection? that and your
>> original cloak will really help. Once that's all done, look for a
>> vault with a teleporter in it to clean out Ludios (A *very* long
>> battle that one). You can also a)locate where the quest portal is,
>> but don't bother yet, you're not high enough level yet. I generally
>> leave chests near or next to the stairs every 5 levels at this point
>> - until 15th level. There's really only room for one more in this
>> part of the dungeon.
>
> You don't need to corrode-proof a +5 orcish helm that could only lose
> one point of AC from corrosion and won't necessarily be part of your
> ascension kit. You should definitely ID the scrolls though.
>

Ah, sorry prof, but that's *three* points, making it a +2 minimum.

Ref:

http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/343/armr-343.html#erosion


>> After Ludios (if it's there), you should try for the isle. you need a
>> blindfold/towel or reflection and levitation/water walking for that.
>> If you don't have reflection, put the blindfold/towel on before you
>> enter the room on the opposite side. You can get reflection in this
>> area if you don't already, just look for a person from greek
>> Mythology.
>
> I'd also go to the Castle before Ludios to get the wand of wishing and
> pick up SDSM; while the statue might provide you with reflection, the
> shield will hurt your spellcasting pretty significantly. All you need
> to get into the Castle is an instrument...
>
>>> I got dagger up to
>>> Expert, and currently I fight with Sting and my stack of daggers; I
>>> just lost my pet, but didn't depend much on it lately.
>>>
>> How come no quarterstaff? Much better weapon.
>
> It would do more damage, but at this point I'd be thinking Magicbane
> as a wielded weapon; the thrown daggers will beat the staff for damage
> when damage is your primary concern.
>

Of course *any* artifact is going to be better, but d8 is better than d4
for now.

>>> Now I'm going to dive deeper into the dungeon, eventually trying for
>>> The Eye when I reach Lvl 14 and find the quest portal. However, I'm
>>> noticing killing things takes longer and longer at the moment (but
>>> maybe I'm just biased, #twoweapon +7 Firebrand and +7 silver saber
>>> might make a bad comparison from my last ascension...)--I wonder
>>> whether I should start switching to spell-casting?
>>>
>> Yes. What is your strength? Unless it is over 18, melee is pointless.
>> BTW you should have cold,fire, and sleep resistance, clairvoyance and
>> possibly shock resistance by now. If not get them from "non-animal"
>> corpses. Just don't eat any non-safe fungi or zombies.
>
> By clairvoyance I am guessing chuckcar means telepathy; picking up
> clairvoyance is a fair bit harder

Yeah, only difference is method/range. Effect is the same.

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 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

On 2008-02-07, chuckcar <chuck.DeleteThis@nil.car> wrote:
> Rachel Elizabeth Dillon <rachel.DeleteThis@akrasiac.org> wrote in
> news:slrnfql1so.te1.rachel@autumnfox.akrasiac.org:
>> You don't need to corrode-proof a +5 orcish helm that could only lose
>> one point of AC from corrosion and won't necessarily be part of your
>> ascension kit. You should definitely ID the scrolls though.
>>
>
> Ah, sorry prof, but that's *three* points, making it a +2 minimum.
>
> Ref:
>
> http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/343/armr-343.html#erosion

"Your armor class is reduced by the base amount shown above. However,
if armor is damaged, that amount of reduction is lowered by the greatest
degree of erosion (damaged = 1, very damaged = 2, and thoroughly damaged =
3), but that will not lower the AC reduction beyond zero. "

That's the _base AC reduction_. So a thoroughly damaged plate mail
(base AC reduction of 7) would only provide 4 AC, but a thoroughly
damaged orcish helm will only provide base 0 AC just as it would at just
damaged. The enchantment is considered outside of the base AC here.
Maybe the spoiler isn't entirely clear, but load up wizard mode and
wish for a +5 thoroughly corroded orcish helm; it should provide 5 AC.
(It did for me in a vanilla 3.4.3 build; I checked there but don't have
the cycles to check the source right now.)

I think the spoiler's then saying "Your AC is then further reduced by
the enchantment (e.g., +1) of the armor." is meant to imply that the
enchantment's bonus to AC is calculated after the erosion bit?

So fooproofing is best saved for armor pieces that provide more than one
point of base AC, like robes, cloaks of protection, and larger shields.

-r.
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

Rachel Elizabeth Dillon wrote:

> On 2008-02-07, chuckcar <chuck RemoveThis @nil.car> wrote:
>
>>Rachel Elizabeth Dillon <rachel RemoveThis @akrasiac.org> wrote in
>>news:slrnfql1so.te1.rachel@autumnfox.akrasiac.org:
>>
>>>You don't need to corrode-proof a +5 orcish helm that could only lose
>>>one point of AC from corrosion and won't necessarily be part of your
>>>ascension kit. You should definitely ID the scrolls though.
>>>
>>
>>Ah, sorry prof, but that's *three* points, making it a +2 minimum.
>>
>>Ref:
>>
>>http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/343/armr-343.html#erosion
>
>
> "Your armor class is reduced by the base amount shown above. However,
> if armor is damaged, that amount of reduction is lowered by the greatest
> degree of erosion (damaged = 1, very damaged = 2, and thoroughly damaged =
> 3), but that will not lower the AC reduction beyond zero. "
>
> That's the _base AC reduction_. So a thoroughly damaged plate mail
> (base AC reduction of 7) would only provide 4 AC, but a thoroughly
> damaged orcish helm will only provide base 0 AC just as it would at just
> damaged. The enchantment is considered outside of the base AC here.
> Maybe the spoiler isn't entirely clear, but load up wizard mode and
> wish for a +5 thoroughly corroded orcish helm; it should provide 5 AC.
> (It did for me in a vanilla 3.4.3 build; I checked there but don't have
> the cycles to check the source right now.)
>
> I think the spoiler's then saying "Your AC is then further reduced by
> the enchantment (e.g., +1) of the armor." is meant to imply that the
> enchantment's bonus to AC is calculated after the erosion bit?
>
> So fooproofing is best saved for armor pieces that provide more than one
> point of base AC, like robes, cloaks of protection, and larger shields.

And totally unnecessary for those that provide 0 base defence: T- and
Hawaiian shirts, fedora, dunce cap, mummy wrapping and orcish and
dwarvish cloaks.

Topi 'But fireproof Hawaiian shirt is so cool.' Linkala
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- Bertrand Russell
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 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

On 2008-02-07, hcobb wrote:
>> The shield is protection against surprise melee, when you happen upon a
>> monster. Your game plan is then to step back, unstrap the shield, and cast.
>
> The best response to a surprise melee is to use Magicbane as a tool
> rather than a weapon.

But AC still helps cushion the first hit. I guess the fabled "round a corner
and find yourself face to knee with a mumak" kind of situation is what the
poster you didn't deem worthy to attribute your quote to had in mind.

> Against most @ (and one type of H) you have the sleep spell.

Why the constraint?

> And against elves you will use the most powerful spell in vanilla.
> (In D&D elves resist this spell as well as sleep, but why argue with
> success?)
>
> Once your pet elves make it to the other side of the checkers board
> and get kinged make sure you equip them properly.

I don't get it. Are you advising taming elves and withholding them equipment
before they level up? Whatever for?

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 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

On 2008-02-07, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> "Brian Klein" <wyoma... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Why does everyone say that a wizard's goal is to not melee?  I am XL 30+,
>> AC -36 with a +8 Magicbane and have no trouble smashing heads as a Wiz...
>
> Context matters. By the time Daniel's wizard is XP-30 AC=-36 he
> won't need to care about melee either.
>
> In fact, once in Gehennom I think it's important to be able to melee
> down any critter you might encounter. In the mazes lots of monsters
> appear next to you as the first sign they exist.

Not for a wizard, who will always have a few dozen turns of detect monster
stacked up. But still, being able to melee well is never a bad idea.

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 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

Rachel Elizabeth Dillon <rachel RemoveThis @akrasiac.org> wrote in
news:slrnfqm4pv.te1.rachel@autumnfox.akrasiac.org:

> On 2008-02-07, chuckcar <chuck RemoveThis @nil.car> wrote:
>> Rachel Elizabeth Dillon <rachel RemoveThis @akrasiac.org> wrote in
>> news:slrnfql1so.te1.rachel@autumnfox.akrasiac.org:
>>> You don't need to corrode-proof a +5 orcish helm that could only
>>> lose one point of AC from corrosion and won't necessarily be part of
>>> your ascension kit. You should definitely ID the scrolls though.
>>>
>>
>> Ah, sorry prof, but that's *three* points, making it a +2 minimum.
>>
>> Ref:
>>
>> http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/343/armr-343.html#erosion
>
> "Your armor class is reduced by the base amount shown above. However,
> if armor is damaged, that amount of reduction is lowered by the
> greatest degree of erosion (damaged = 1, very damaged = 2, and
> thoroughly damaged = 3), but that will not lower the AC reduction
> beyond zero. "
>
> That's the _base AC reduction_. So a thoroughly damaged plate mail
> (base AC reduction of 7) would only provide 4 AC, but a thoroughly
> damaged orcish helm will only provide base 0 AC just as it would at
> just damaged. The enchantment is considered outside of the base AC
> here. Maybe the spoiler isn't entirely clear, but load up wizard mode
> and wish for a +5 thoroughly corroded orcish helm; it should provide 5
> AC.

Ah, *no*. it would provide +2 as it says.

(It did for me in a vanilla 3.4.3 build; I checked there but don't
> have the cycles to check the source right now.)
>

Ok, we all have memory lapses.

> I think the spoiler's then saying "Your AC is then further reduced by
> the enchantment (e.g., +1) of the armor." is meant to imply that the
> enchantment's bonus to AC is calculated after the erosion bit?
>

That's talking about *after* foo-proofing it, when the erosion is gone.

> So fooproofing is best saved for armor pieces that provide more than
> one point of base AC, like robes, cloaks of protection, and larger
> shields.
>
And The OP is talking about a +4 helm. So it applies.

Or Items that are a) external and b) *will* have more than +2
enchantment. Which applies to everything but the "mail" and the shirt
eventually.

I don't see what's so hard about it, the AC is dropped by a maximum of
three unless the enchantment is less than three in which case it's
dropped to AC 0. So if you have a +5 shield, you get a +2 shield if it's
completely rusty/burned. Nothing else matters. And this can only be
fixed by foo-proofing it of course.

> -r.



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(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

On 2008-02-07, chuckcar <chuck.RemoveThis@nil.car> wrote:
> (It did for me in a vanilla 3.4.3 build; I checked there but don't
>> have the cycles to check the source right now.)
>>
>
> Ok, we all have memory lapses.

Yes, but Wizard mode does not have memory lapses:

Armor
g - a thoroughly rusty +5 orcish helm (being worn)
(end)

-------------
|.........<.|
|.........(.|
|........{@d|
|...........|
|...........|
--+----------

Wizard the Hatamoto St:14 Dx:17 Co:18 In:10 Wi:8 Ch:8 Lawful
Dlvl:1 $:0 HP:15(15) Pw:2(2) AC:5 Exp:1

>> I think the spoiler's then saying "Your AC is then further reduced by
>> the enchantment (e.g., +1) of the armor." is meant to imply that the
>> enchantment's bonus to AC is calculated after the erosion bit?
>>
>
> That's talking about *after* foo-proofing it, when the erosion is gone.

No, it isn't.

>> So fooproofing is best saved for armor pieces that provide more than
>> one point of base AC, like robes, cloaks of protection, and larger
>> shields.
>>
> And The OP is talking about a +4 helm. So it applies.
>
> Or Items that are a) external and b) *will* have more than +2
> enchantment. Which applies to everything but the "mail" and the shirt
> eventually.
>
> I don't see what's so hard about it, the AC is dropped by a maximum of
> three unless the enchantment is less than three in which case it's
> dropped to AC 0. So if you have a +5 shield, you get a +2 shield if it's
> completely rusty/burned. Nothing else matters. And this can only be
> fixed by foo-proofing it of course.

What's so hard about it is that you are incorrect; corrosion does not
affect the bonus provided by enchantment in vanilla 3.4.3 NetHack. It's
OK to make the mistake; that you didn't check it in Wizard mode but
instead just repeated your statement is disappointing. I'm correcting
you here for the sake of the OP.

If you still don't believe me, lines 284 and 285 of include/hack.h:

#define ARM_BONUS(obj) (objects[(obj)->otyp].a_ac + (obj)->spe \
- min((int)greatest_erosion(obj),objects[(obj)->otyp].a_ac))

The min(BLAH) means that the erosion malus can never be worse than the
base AC of the item, as I described. If it worked the way you describe,
the code would look like this:

#define ARM_BONUS(obj) (objects[(obj)->otyp].a_ac + (obj)->spe \
- (int)greatest_erosion(obj))

But it doesn't.

-r.
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

Rachel Elizabeth Dillon <rachel.DeleteThis@akrasiac.org> wrote in
news:slrnfqmkc7.te1.rachel@autumnfox.akrasiac.org:

> On 2008-02-07, chuckcar <chuck.DeleteThis@nil.car> wrote:
>> (It did for me in a vanilla 3.4.3 build; I checked there but don't
>>> have the cycles to check the source right now.)
>>>
>>
>> Ok, we all have memory lapses.
>
> Yes, but Wizard mode does not have memory lapses:
>
> Armor
> g - a thoroughly rusty +5 orcish helm (being
> worn) (end)
>
> -------------
> |.........<.|
> |.........(.|
> |........{@d|
> |...........|
> |...........|
> --+----------
>
> Wizard the Hatamoto St:14 Dx:17 Co:18 In:10 Wi:8 Ch:8 Lawful
> Dlvl:1 $:0 HP:15(15) Pw:2(2) AC:5 Exp:1
>
>>> I think the spoiler's then saying "Your AC is then further reduced
>>> by the enchantment (e.g., +1) of the armor." is meant to imply that
>>> the enchantment's bonus to AC is calculated after the erosion bit?
>>>
>>
>> That's talking about *after* foo-proofing it, when the erosion is
>> gone.
>
> No, it isn't.
>
>>> So fooproofing is best saved for armor pieces that provide more than
>>> one point of base AC, like robes, cloaks of protection, and larger
>>> shields.
>>>
>> And The OP is talking about a +4 helm. So it applies.
>>
>> Or Items that are a) external and b) *will* have more than +2
>> enchantment. Which applies to everything but the "mail" and the shirt
>> eventually.
>>
>> I don't see what's so hard about it, the AC is dropped by a maximum
>> of three unless the enchantment is less than three in which case it's
>> dropped to AC 0. So if you have a +5 shield, you get a +2 shield if
>> it's completely rusty/burned. Nothing else matters. And this can only
>> be fixed by foo-proofing it of course.
>
> What's so hard about it is that you are incorrect; corrosion does not
> affect the bonus provided by enchantment in vanilla 3.4.3 NetHack.
> It's OK to make the mistake; that you didn't check it in Wizard mode
> but instead just repeated your statement is disappointing. I'm
> correcting you here for the sake of the OP.
>

I was basing my "correction" on armr-3.4.3 and your reading of it. The
fact is that it was another error in the spoilers that we've now found.

> If you still don't believe me, lines 284 and 285 of include/hack.h:
>
> #define ARM_BONUS(obj) (objects[(obj)->otyp].a_ac + (obj)->spe \
> - min((int)greatest_erosion(obj),objects[(obj)->otyp].a_a
> c))
>
> The min(BLAH) means that the erosion malus can never be worse than the
> base AC of the item, as I described. If it worked the way you
> describe, the code would look like this:
>
> #define ARM_BONUS(obj) (objects[(obj)->otyp].a_ac + (obj)->spe \
> - (int)greatest_erosion(obj))
>
> But it doesn't.
>
> -r.
>



--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

On 2008-02-07, chuckcar <chuck DeleteThis @nil.car> wrote:
> Rachel Elizabeth Dillon <rachel DeleteThis @akrasiac.org> wrote in
> news:slrnfqmkc7.te1.rachel@autumnfox.akrasiac.org:
>
>> On 2008-02-07, chuckcar <chuck DeleteThis @nil.car> wrote:
>>> I don't see what's so hard about it, the AC is dropped by a maximum
>>> of three unless the enchantment is less than three in which case it's
>>> dropped to AC 0. So if you have a +5 shield, you get a +2 shield if
>>> it's completely rusty/burned. Nothing else matters. And this can only
>>> be fixed by foo-proofing it of course.
>
> I was basing my "correction" on armr-3.4.3 and your reading of it. The
> fact is that it was another error in the spoilers that we've now found.

The spoiler is correct. Your reading of it was incorrect.

There is no error in the spoiler, although it's possible it could be
rewritten to make this point clearer (perhaps simply with an example).
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest?