What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest?

In article <fochti$p8n$1@newsreader1.xoc.utanet.at>,
Daniel Kraft <d.DeleteThis@domob.eu> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I'm finally again trying to ascend my first Wizard... So far I had only
>success with fighter classes. I've just finished Mine's End (Sokoban
>already done), and are a Lvl 11 elven wizard.

Cool. I haven't played a Wiz in a long long long time. But I'll take a
stab at it.

>I got lucky to find +3 elven mithril and a +5 orcish helm early on lying
>around in the dungeon, so currently I have good AC (somewhere below -4 I
>think, got some pieces thoroughly rusted/burnt). I got dagger up to
>Expert, and currently I fight with Sting and my stack of daggers; I just
>lost my pet, but didn't depend much on it lately.

Are you throwing daggers? As a wizard your objective is to melee as
little as possible.

>Now I'm going to dive deeper into the dungeon, eventually trying for The
>Eye when I reach Lvl 14 and find the quest portal. However, I'm
>noticing killing things takes longer and longer at the moment (but maybe
>I'm just biased, #twoweapon +7 Firebrand and +7 silver saber might make
>a bad comparison from my last ascension...)--I wonder whether I should
>start switching to spell-casting?

Absolutely. A high level wizard with Magic Missile is a truly deadly
foe.

>I do have force bolt (of course) and drain life as attack spells,
>together with sleep and healing which seems to me quite a reasonable
>collection; unfortunatelly, my failure rates are about 78% for those
>spells, even after advancing attack-skill to Skilled... I think I must
>get rid of the metallic body armour to raise it.

Don't think. Do. Eventually you'll want to get to dragon scale. But you
have to ditch the mithril because it's absolutely killing your
spellcasting ability.

>This would mean
>switching +3 elven mithril for some studded leather--is it worth it, or
>should I rely on fighting with daggers until I get the Eye?

It's worth it. But you don't need to just sit on that. Two things that
you can pull off that will help is to get a divine AC bump by donating
to the Minetown priest and by getting yourself some blessed enchant
armors. You indicate that you have a magic marker. So use it to your
advantage.

>BTW, how will Magicbane compare to Sting as melee-weapon once I find a
>co-aligned altar?

You can convert an altar at XL11. Magicbane is wonderful.

But remember you should try to melee as little as possible. Step back
and throw highly enchanted daggers and spells as a Wizard.

>Or does it make not much a difference?

Big difference later on because it catches curses. Also its effect work
against everything, not just Orcs. Finally as an athame you can engrave
in a single turn without dulling the blade. Magicbane is definitely
better.

>Also, should
>I try to write a spellbook of magic missile or simply look if I find one
>later in the dungeon?

Enchant armor first, then magic missle. Your objective is to be able to
cast as 0% failure and still have a decent negative AC. You already have
attack spells, so you can wait on magic missle.

>How much good would it do me now compared to force bolt/drain life?

Eventually it's the most powerful attack spell in the game for a Wizard,
spewing tons of damage. But again you need to be able to cast it
reliably. So managing that AC is critical.

Ditch the mithril and divine/enchant yourself back into the -5/-10 AC
range. Step back and throw spells/daggers.

You should be fine then.

BAJ
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

Daniel Kraft <d....DeleteThis@domob.eu> wrote:
>
> >> I got lucky to find +3 elven mithril and a +5 orcish helm early on lying
> >> around in the dungeon, so currently I have good AC (somewhere below -4 I
> >> think, got some pieces thoroughly rusted/burnt).  I got dagger up to
> >> Expert, and currently I fight with Sting and my stack of daggers; I just
> >> lost my pet, but didn't depend much on it lately.
>
> > The AC is just about OK.

Being a wizard and thus favoring ranged combat, effect on
spell casting eventually starts to take precedence over
numerical AC IMO. Around XP 11 I think it's time to start
trading in armor items for ones that don't interfere.

> You'll probably want to replace Sting rather sooner
> > than later, since it isn't really a good melee weapon.
>
> Hm, what would be a better choice that is readily available?  I suppose
> Sting is better than any ordinary foo-dagger, isn't it?  Should I bother
> with swords or a weapon other than dagger as wizard and at this stage,
> or do you simply mean Magicbane?

There are those who say to never unwield Magicbane. It's not
a bad strategy. As a wizard you're supposed to evolve a
ranged combat strategy.

For melee weapons that hit harder, wizards can get skilled at
polearm. While good for both castles they are overly specialized
weapons otherwise. I generally like to advance my wizards to
skilled once I locate a spetum and ignore all other polearms.
Other than that if your second or third artifact gift is a good one,
it makes sense to use it as an alternate wield and use "x" to
switch between 2 artifacts. Always consider use of melee
combat as a reason to learn a lesson - How could you have
avoided melee by using daggers, wands, spells instead?

> >> I do have force bolt (of course) and drain life as attack spells,
> >> together with sleep and healing which seems to me quite a reasonable
> >> collection; unfortunatelly, my failure rates are about 78% for those
> >> spells, even after advancing attack-skill to Skilled...  I think I must
> >> get rid of the metallic body armour to raise it.  This would mean
> >> switching +3 elven mithril for some studded leather--is it worth it, or
> >> should I rely on fighting with daggers until I get the Eye?

I do think it's worth switching to studded leather armor to get to
low failure rates on good attack spells.

> > That's almost as much of a style question as it is a question of damage
> > figures, IMO. You could certainly switch to spells (btw, what keeps you
> > from taking off the armor to take a peek at your naked failure rates?),
> > but it would require some inventory management to get AC up again. Do
> > you have a wish source? In that case, DSM would help there a lot. Also
> > consider wearing some armor items that raise your failure rates a little
> > and can be removed quickly if desired, eg a small shield.
>
> Without the mithril I get rates near 0%--I haven't yet thought of
> bothering with shields, but I could try finding an enchanted one in the
> loot...  But if I switch to casting as weapon, I'd have to fight without
> it.  Or doesn't a shield raise the failure rates significantly?  I
> thought it does.

Small shield is not so bad until you get G/SDSM.

> > Also, you'll definitely need better attack spells to go caster. So the
> > answer depends mostly on the availability of good armor and magic markers,
> > and your willingness to spend a lot of time acquiring and organizing
> > items and possibly altar dancing for AC and spellbooks.
>
> I do have two cursed markers and saw one (probably uncursed) in a shop,
> so I could try blanking some spellbook (should have double ones) and
> writing magic missile...

Go for writing magic missile ...

> Can I try immediatelly or do I have to raise
> my luck first, as I've just found the luckstone?

... As soon as you've maxed out luck then switch armor types.

> >> BTW, how will Magicbane compare to Sting as melee-weapon once I find a
> >> co-aligned altar?  
>
> > Very favourably. Go for it as soon as possible. Don't wait for a coaligned
> > altar, convert an unattended one.
>
> Unfortunatelly, the only altar I found so far (down to Sokoban) is the
> one in Mine Town, and it is cross aligned...  But I hope I do have
> better luck in the dungeon!

Take every missile weapon and go convert that altar using ranged
combat.
So what that you won't ever enhance dart or rock, have so many
available
there's no doubt the priest will be dead before you've thrown a tenth
of the
ammo you've collected near there.

Maybe you can consider tuned luck methods with altar camping. If you
learn create monster spell you can go into a nearly endless loop of
getting spellbooks and AC. Once you get finger of death it makes
sense
to max out your luck, allow yourself to get crowned for the crowning
weapon you get from keeping the +FoD in your open inventory, then
decide if you want a sacfest for any other artifact. Magicbane plus
Stormy
is all the artifacts I might ever want as a chaotic wizard.
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

On Feb 6, 9:30 am, Doug Freyburger <dfrey... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> Daniel Kraft <d... DeleteThis @domob.eu> wrote:
>
> > >> I got lucky to find +3 elven mithril and a +5 orcish helm early on lying
> > >> around in the dungeon, so currently I have good AC (somewhere below -4 I
> > >> think, got some pieces thoroughly rusted/burnt).  I got dagger up to
> > >> Expert, and currently I fight with Sting and my stack of daggers; I just
> > >> lost my pet, but didn't depend much on it lately.
>
> > > The AC is just about OK.
>
> Being a wizard and thus favoring ranged combat, effect on
> spell casting eventually starts to take precedence over
> numerical AC IMO.  Around XP 11 I think it's time to start
> trading in armor items for ones that don't interfere.
>
> > You'll probably want to replace Sting rather sooner
> > > than later, since it isn't really a good melee weapon.
>
> > Hm, what would be a better choice that is readily available?  I suppose
> > Sting is better than any ordinary foo-dagger, isn't it?  Should I bother
> > with swords or a weapon other than dagger as wizard and at this stage,
> > or do you simply mean Magicbane?
>
> There are those who say to never unwield Magicbane.  It's not
> a bad strategy.  As a wizard you're supposed to evolve a
> ranged combat strategy.
>
> For melee weapons that hit harder, wizards can get skilled at
> polearm.  While good for both castles they are overly specialized
> weapons otherwise.  I generally like to advance my wizards to
> skilled once I locate a spetum and ignore all other polearms.
> Other than that if your second or third artifact gift is a good one,
> it makes sense to use it as an alternate wield and use "x" to
> switch between 2 artifacts.  Always consider use of melee
> combat as a reason to learn a lesson - How could you have
> avoided melee by using daggers, wands, spells instead?
>
> > >> I do have force bolt (of course) and drain life as attack spells,
> > >> together with sleep and healing which seems to me quite a reasonable
> > >> collection; unfortunatelly, my failure rates are about 78% for those
> > >> spells, even after advancing attack-skill to Skilled...  I think I must
> > >> get rid of the metallic body armour to raise it.  This would mean
> > >> switching +3 elven mithril for some studded leather--is it worth it, or
> > >> should I rely on fighting with daggers until I get the Eye?
>
> I do think it's worth switching to studded leather armor to get to
> low failure rates on good attack spells.
>
> > > That's almost as much of a style question as it is a question of damage
> > > figures, IMO. You could certainly switch to spells (btw, what keeps you
> > > from taking off the armor to take a peek at your naked failure rates?),
> > > but it would require some inventory management to get AC up again. Do
> > > you have a wish source? In that case, DSM would help there a lot. Also
> > > consider wearing some armor items that raise your failure rates a little
> > > and can be removed quickly if desired, eg a small shield.
>
> > Without the mithril I get rates near 0%--I haven't yet thought of
> > bothering with shields, but I could try finding an enchanted one in the
> > loot...  But if I switch to casting as weapon, I'd have to fight without
> > it.  Or doesn't a shield raise the failure rates significantly?  I
> > thought it does.
>
> Small shield is not so bad until you get G/SDSM.
>
> > > Also, you'll definitely need better attack spells to go caster. So the
> > > answer depends mostly on the availability of good armor and magic markers,
> > > and your willingness to spend a lot of time acquiring and organizing
> > > items and possibly altar dancing for AC and spellbooks.
>
> > I do have two cursed markers and saw one (probably uncursed) in a shop,
> > so I could try blanking some spellbook (should have double ones) and
> > writing magic missile...
>
> Go for writing magic missile ...
>
> > Can I try immediatelly or do I have to raise
> > my luck first, as I've just found the luckstone?
>
> ... As soon as you've maxed out luck then switch armor types.
>
> > >> BTW, how will Magicbane compare to Sting as melee-weapon once I find a
> > >> co-aligned altar?  
>
> > > Very favourably. Go for it as soon as possible. Don't wait for a coaligned
> > > altar, convert an unattended one.
>
> > Unfortunatelly, the only altar I found so far (down to Sokoban) is the
> > one in Mine Town, and it is cross aligned...  But I hope I do have
> > better luck in the dungeon!
>
> Take every missile weapon and go convert that altar using ranged
> combat.
> So what that you won't ever enhance dart or rock, have so many
> available
> there's no doubt the priest will be dead before you've thrown a tenth
> of the
> ammo you've collected near there.
>
Just make sure you don't self-convert before the quest!
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

>> I got lucky to find +3 elven mithril and a +5 orcish helm early on lying
>> around in the dungeon, so currently I have good AC (somewhere below -4 I
>> think, got some pieces thoroughly rusted/burnt). I got dagger up to
>> Expert, and currently I fight with Sting and my stack of daggers; I just
>> lost my pet, but didn't depend much on it lately.
>
> The AC is just about OK. You'll probably want to replace Sting rather sooner
> than later, since it isn't really a good melee weapon.

Hm, what would be a better choice that is readily available? I suppose
Sting is better than any ordinary foo-dagger, isn't it? Should I bother
with swords or a weapon other than dagger as wizard and at this stage,
or do you simply mean Magicbane?

>> I do have force bolt (of course) and drain life as attack spells,
>> together with sleep and healing which seems to me quite a reasonable
>> collection; unfortunatelly, my failure rates are about 78% for those
>> spells, even after advancing attack-skill to Skilled... I think I must
>> get rid of the metallic body armour to raise it. This would mean
>> switching +3 elven mithril for some studded leather--is it worth it, or
>> should I rely on fighting with daggers until I get the Eye?
>
> That's almost as much of a style question as it is a question of damage
> figures, IMO. You could certainly switch to spells (btw, what keeps you
> from taking off the armor to take a peek at your naked failure rates?),
> but it would require some inventory management to get AC up again. Do
> you have a wish source? In that case, DSM would help there a lot. Also
> consider wearing some armor items that raise your failure rates a little
> and can be removed quickly if desired, eg a small shield.

Without the mithril I get rates near 0%--I haven't yet thought of
bothering with shields, but I could try finding an enchanted one in the
loot... But if I switch to casting as weapon, I'd have to fight without
it. Or doesn't a shield raise the failure rates significantly? I
thought it does.

> Also, you'll definitely need better attack spells to go caster. So the
> answer depends mostly on the availability of good armor and magic markers,
> and your willingness to spend a lot of time acquiring and organizing
> items and possibly altar dancing for AC and spellbooks.

I do have two cursed markers and saw one (probably uncursed) in a shop,
so I could try blanking some spellbook (should have double ones) and
writing magic missile... Can I try immediatelly or do I have to raise
my luck first, as I've just found the luckstone?

>> BTW, how will Magicbane compare to Sting as melee-weapon once I find a
>> co-aligned altar?
>
> Very favourably. Go for it as soon as possible. Don't wait for a coaligned
> altar, convert an unattended one.

Unfortunatelly, the only altar I found so far (down to Sokoban) is the
one in Mine Town, and it is cross aligned... But I hope I do have
better luck in the dungeon!

Thanks for all the hints!

Daniel

--
Got two Dear-Daniel-Instant Messages
by MSN, associate ICQ with stress--so
please use good, old E-MAIL!
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

In article <focl5q$2ln$1@newsreader1.xoc.utanet.at>,
Daniel Kraft <d.RemoveThis@domob.eu> wrote:
>>> I got lucky to find +3 elven mithril and a +5 orcish helm early on lying
>>> around in the dungeon, so currently I have good AC (somewhere below -4 I
>>> think, got some pieces thoroughly rusted/burnt). I got dagger up to
>>> Expert, and currently I fight with Sting and my stack of daggers; I just
>>> lost my pet, but didn't depend much on it lately.
>>
>> The AC is just about OK. You'll probably want to replace Sting rather sooner
>> than later, since it isn't really a good melee weapon.
>
>Hm, what would be a better choice that is readily available? I suppose
>Sting is better than any ordinary foo-dagger, isn't it?

Only enchantments because it's an artifact. And against Orcs of course.

But melee isn't a Wizard's strength anyway. It's an only when necessary
activity. And with sleep you can get out of a lot of melee situations.

>Should I bother
>with swords or a weapon other than dagger as wizard and at this stage,
>or do you simply mean Magicbane?

Magicbane. It's guaranteed to be given to you. So find an altar and get
to sacrificing.

>>> I do have force bolt (of course) and drain life as attack spells,
>>> together with sleep and healing which seems to me quite a reasonable
>>> collection; unfortunatelly, my failure rates are about 78% for those
>>> spells, even after advancing attack-skill to Skilled... I think I must
>>> get rid of the metallic body armour to raise it. This would mean
>>> switching +3 elven mithril for some studded leather--is it worth it, or
>>> should I rely on fighting with daggers until I get the Eye?
>>
>> That's almost as much of a style question as it is a question of damage
>> figures, IMO. You could certainly switch to spells (btw, what keeps you
>> from taking off the armor to take a peek at your naked failure rates?),
>> but it would require some inventory management to get AC up again. Do
>> you have a wish source? In that case, DSM would help there a lot. Also
>> consider wearing some armor items that raise your failure rates a little
>> and can be removed quickly if desired, eg a small shield.
>
>Without the mithril I get rates near 0%--I haven't yet thought of
>bothering with shields, but I could try finding an enchanted one in the
>loot...

Good idea. Just remember that it affects spell failure rates badly so
you need to take it off before you cast.

The other good thing is that you can enchant it so that you get a better
AC.

>But if I switch to casting as weapon, I'd have to fight without
>it.

You're a wizard. You're not trying to fight. Use spells and daggers for
damage.

>Or doesn't a shield raise the failure rates significantly? I
>thought it does.

It does. You'll have to take it off to cast.

>> Also, you'll definitely need better attack spells to go caster. So the
>> answer depends mostly on the availability of good armor and magic markers,
>> and your willingness to spend a lot of time acquiring and organizing
>> items and possibly altar dancing for AC and spellbooks.
>
>I do have two cursed markers and saw one (probably uncursed) in a shop,
>so I could try blanking some spellbook (should have double ones) and
>writing magic missile... Can I try immediatelly or do I have to raise
>my luck first, as I've just found the luckstone?

Raise your luck first. The attack set that you have can function for
now.

>>> BTW, how will Magicbane compare to Sting as melee-weapon once I find a
>>> co-aligned altar?
>>
>> Very favourably. Go for it as soon as possible. Don't wait for a coaligned
>> altar, convert an unattended one.
>
>Unfortunatelly, the only altar I found so far (down to Sokoban) is the
>one in Mine Town, and it is cross aligned... But I hope I do have
>better luck in the dungeon!

You'll come accross one eventually. But melee isn't your goal anyway.

BAJ
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

"Daniel Kraft" <d.DeleteThis@domob.eu> wrote in message
news:fochti$p8n$1@newsreader1.xoc.utanet.at...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm finally again trying to ascend my first Wizard... So far I had only
> success with fighter classes. I've just finished Mine's End (Sokoban
> already done), and are a Lvl 11 elven wizard.
>
> I got lucky to find +3 elven mithril and a +5 orcish helm early on lying
> around in the dungeon, so currently I have good AC (somewhere below -4 I
> think, got some pieces thoroughly rusted/burnt). I got dagger up to
> Expert, and currently I fight with Sting and my stack of daggers; I just
> lost my pet, but didn't depend much on it lately.
>
> Now I'm going to dive deeper into the dungeon, eventually trying for The
> Eye when I reach Lvl 14 and find the quest portal. However, I'm noticing
> killing things takes longer and longer at the moment (but maybe I'm just
> biased, #twoweapon +7 Firebrand and +7 silver saber might make a bad
> comparison from my last ascension...)--I wonder whether I should start
> switching to spell-casting?
>
> I do have force bolt (of course) and drain life as attack spells, together
> with sleep and healing which seems to me quite a reasonable collection;
> unfortunatelly, my failure rates are about 78% for those spells, even
> after advancing attack-skill to Skilled... I think I must get rid of the
> metallic body armour to raise it. This would mean switching +3 elven
> mithril for some studded leather--is it worth it, or should I rely on
> fighting with daggers until I get the Eye?
>
> BTW, how will Magicbane compare to Sting as melee-weapon once I find a
> co-aligned altar? Or does it make not much a difference? Also, should I
> try to write a spellbook of magic missile or simply look if I find one
> later in the dungeon? How much good would it do me now compared to force
> bolt/drain life?
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel
>
>
Why does everyone say that a wizard's goal is to not melee? I am XL 30+,
AC -36 with a +8 Magicbane and have no trouble smashing heads as a Wiz...



> --
> Got two Dear-Daniel-Instant Messages
> by MSN, associate ICQ with stress--so
> please use good, old E-MAIL!
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

On Feb 6, 8:56 am, Daniel Kraft <d....TakeThisOut@domob.eu> wrote:

> Without the mithril I get rates near 0%--I haven't yet thought of
> bothering with shields, but I could try finding an enchanted one in the
> loot... But if I switch to casting as weapon, I'd have to fight without
> it. Or doesn't a shield raise the failure rates significantly? I
> thought it does.

Small shield is not so bad, as others have mentioned; I just ascended
a Wizard with one and had 0% failure on every spell, but then I was
also level 30, wearing a helm of brilliance and a robe. If you want to
be thoroughly spoiled, you can consult the following link to check
failure rates based on your intelligence, experience level and armor
choices: http://www.gridbug.de/spells.html

- funcrunch
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

Daniel Kraft <d DeleteThis @domob.eu> wrote in
news:fochti$p8n$1@newsreader1.xoc.utanet.at:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm finally again trying to ascend my first Wizard... So far I had
> only success with fighter classes. I've just finished Mine's End
> (Sokoban already done), and are a Lvl 11 elven wizard.
>
> I got lucky to find +3 elven mithril and a +5 orcish helm early on
> lying around in the dungeon, so currently I have good AC (somewhere
> below -4 I think, got some pieces thoroughly rusted/burnt).

Now is the time to corrode-fix the helm at least. If you know
how learn which scrolls are enchant armor, identify, remove curse and
enchant weapon. Preferably any external armor, find a tshirt and enchant
your armor to around -15 AC if you can. Once you're that high and
foo-proofed, you're pretty well safe. Certainly from a surprise melee you
can't run from. Did you get reflection? that and your original cloak will
really help. Once that's all done, look for a vault with a teleporter in
it to clean out Ludios (A *very* long battle that one). You can also a)locate
where the quest portal is, but don't bother yet, you're not high enough
level yet. I generally leave chests near or next to the stairs every 5
levels at this point - until 15th level. There's really only room for one
more in this part of the dungeon.

After Ludios (if it's there), you should try for the isle. you need a
blindfold/towel or reflection and levitation/water walking for that. If you
don't have reflection, put the blindfold/towel on before you enter the room
on the opposite side. You can get reflection in this area if you don't
already, just look for a person from greek Mythology.

> I got dagger up to
> Expert, and currently I fight with Sting and my stack of daggers; I
> just lost my pet, but didn't depend much on it lately.
>
How come no quarterstaff? Much better weapon.

> Now I'm going to dive deeper into the dungeon, eventually trying for
> The Eye when I reach Lvl 14 and find the quest portal. However, I'm
> noticing killing things takes longer and longer at the moment (but
> maybe I'm just biased, #twoweapon +7 Firebrand and +7 silver saber
> might make a bad comparison from my last ascension...)--I wonder
> whether I should start switching to spell-casting?
>
Yes. What is your strength? Unless it is over 18, melee is pointless.
BTW you should have cold,fire, and sleep resistance, clairvoyance and
possibly shock resistance by now. If not get them from "non-animal"
corpses. Just don't eat any non-safe fungi or zombies.

--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

On 2008-02-07, chuckcar <chuck.DeleteThis@nil.car> wrote:
> Daniel Kraft <d.DeleteThis@domob.eu> wrote in
> news:fochti$p8n$1@newsreader1.xoc.utanet.at:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm finally again trying to ascend my first Wizard... So far I had
>> only success with fighter classes. I've just finished Mine's End
>> (Sokoban already done), and are a Lvl 11 elven wizard.
>>
>> I got lucky to find +3 elven mithril and a +5 orcish helm early on
>> lying around in the dungeon, so currently I have good AC (somewhere
>> below -4 I think, got some pieces thoroughly rusted/burnt).
>
> Now is the time to corrode-fix the helm at least. If you know
> how learn which scrolls are enchant armor, identify, remove curse and
> enchant weapon. Preferably any external armor, find a tshirt and enchant
> your armor to around -15 AC if you can. Once you're that high and
> foo-proofed, you're pretty well safe. Certainly from a surprise melee you
> can't run from. Did you get reflection? that and your original cloak will
> really help. Once that's all done, look for a vault with a teleporter in
> it to clean out Ludios (A *very* long battle that one). You can also a)locate
> where the quest portal is, but don't bother yet, you're not high enough
> level yet. I generally leave chests near or next to the stairs every 5
> levels at this point - until 15th level. There's really only room for one
> more in this part of the dungeon.

You don't need to corrode-proof a +5 orcish helm that could only lose
one point of AC from corrosion and won't necessarily be part of your
ascension kit. You should definitely ID the scrolls though.

> After Ludios (if it's there), you should try for the isle. you need a
> blindfold/towel or reflection and levitation/water walking for that. If you
> don't have reflection, put the blindfold/towel on before you enter the room
> on the opposite side. You can get reflection in this area if you don't
> already, just look for a person from greek Mythology.

I'd also go to the Castle before Ludios to get the wand of wishing and
pick up SDSM; while the statue might provide you with reflection, the
shield will hurt your spellcasting pretty significantly. All you need
to get into the Castle is an instrument...

>> I got dagger up to
>> Expert, and currently I fight with Sting and my stack of daggers; I
>> just lost my pet, but didn't depend much on it lately.
>>
> How come no quarterstaff? Much better weapon.

It would do more damage, but at this point I'd be thinking Magicbane
as a wielded weapon; the thrown daggers will beat the staff for damage
when damage is your primary concern.

>> Now I'm going to dive deeper into the dungeon, eventually trying for
>> The Eye when I reach Lvl 14 and find the quest portal. However, I'm
>> noticing killing things takes longer and longer at the moment (but
>> maybe I'm just biased, #twoweapon +7 Firebrand and +7 silver saber
>> might make a bad comparison from my last ascension...)--I wonder
>> whether I should start switching to spell-casting?
>>
> Yes. What is your strength? Unless it is over 18, melee is pointless.
> BTW you should have cold,fire, and sleep resistance, clairvoyance and
> possibly shock resistance by now. If not get them from "non-animal"
> corpses. Just don't eat any non-safe fungi or zombies.

By clairvoyance I am guessing chuckcar means telepathy; picking up
clairvoyance is a fair bit harder Personally I wouldn't worry about
the damage you are dealing unless it doesn't stack up well against the
damage you are taking. If you need to hit something five times before
it falls down but it isn't hurting you, who cares? If it is, consider
alternate strategies. Personally, I'd enchant my dagger stack, but if
you have good spells (magic missile, charm monster) it might be worth
going caster instead.

Good luck!

-r.
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

> The shield is protection against surprise melee, when you happen upon a
> monster. Your game plan is then to step back, unstrap the shield, and cast.

The best response to a surprise melee is to use Magicbane as a tool
rather than a weapon.

Against most @ (and one type of H) you have the sleep spell.

And against elves you will use the most powerful spell in vanilla.
(In D&D elves resist this spell as well as sleep, but why argue with
success?)

Once your pet elves make it to the other side of the checkers board
and get kinged make sure you equip them properly.

-HJC
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

"Brian Klein" <wyoma....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Daniel Kraft" <d....RemoveThis@domob.eu> wrote in message
>
> > I'm finally again trying to ascend my first Wizard...  So far I had only
> > success with fighter classes.  I've just finished Mine's End (Sokoban
> > already done), and are a Lvl 11 elven wizard.
>
> Why does everyone say that a wizard's goal is to not melee?  I am XL 30+,
> AC -36 with a +8 Magicbane and have no trouble smashing heads as a Wiz...

Context matters. By the time Daniel's wizard is XP-30 AC=-36 he
won't need to care about melee either.

In fact, once in Gehennom I think it's important to be able to melee
down any critter you might encounter. In the mazes lots of monsters
appear next to you as the first sign they exist. Once below the VotD
it is important to be able to face at least a minotaur or balrog in
melee and win. Noting that magic missile at range one counts as
melee because it's face to face. And that some monsters are immune
to magic missile so there's need to have a list of options for combat.
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

On Feb 7, 9:08 am, chuckcar <ch... RemoveThis @nil.car> wrote:
> Rachel Elizabeth Dillon <rac... RemoveThis @akrasiac.org> wrote innews:slrnfqm4pv.te1.rachel@autumnfox.akrasiac.org:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2008-02-07, chuckcar <ch... RemoveThis @nil.car> wrote:
> >> Rachel Elizabeth Dillon <rac... RemoveThis @akrasiac.org> wrote in
> >>news:slrnfql1so.te1.rachel@autumnfox.akrasiac.org:
> >>> You don't need to corrode-proof a +5 orcish helm that could only
> >>> lose one point of AC from corrosion and won't necessarily be part of
> >>> your ascension kit. You should definitely ID the scrolls though.
>
> >> Ah, sorry prof, but that's *three* points, making it a +2 minimum.
>
> >> Ref:
>
> >>http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/343/armr-343.html#erosion
>
> > "Your armor class is reduced by the base amount shown above. However,
> > if armor is damaged, that amount of reduction is lowered by the
> > greatest degree of erosion (damaged = 1, very damaged = 2, and
> > thoroughly damaged = 3), but that will not lower the AC reduction
> > beyond zero. "
>
> > That's the _base AC reduction_. So a thoroughly damaged plate mail
> > (base AC reduction of 7) would only provide 4 AC, but a thoroughly
> > damaged orcish helm will only provide base 0 AC just as it would at
> > just damaged. The enchantment is considered outside of the base AC
> > here. Maybe the spoiler isn't entirely clear, but load up wizard mode
> > and wish for a +5 thoroughly corroded orcish helm; it should provide 5
> > AC.
>
> Ah, *no*. it would provide +2 as it says.
>
>  (It did for me in a vanilla 3.4.3 build; I checked there but don't
>
> > have the cycles to check the source right now.)
>
> Ok, we all have memory lapses.
>
> > I think the spoiler's then saying "Your AC is then further reduced by
> > the enchantment (e.g., +1) of the armor." is meant to imply that the
> > enchantment's bonus to AC is calculated after the erosion bit?
>
> That's talking about *after* foo-proofing it, when the erosion is gone.
>
> > So fooproofing is best saved for armor pieces that provide more than
> > one point of base AC, like robes, cloaks of protection, and larger
> > shields.
>
> And The OP is talking about a +4 helm. So it applies.
>
> Or Items that are a) external and b) *will* have more than +2
> enchantment. Which applies to everything but the "mail" and the shirt
> eventually.
>
> I don't see what's so hard about it, the AC is dropped by a maximum of
> three unless the enchantment is less than three in which case it's
> dropped to AC 0. So if you have a +5 shield, you get a +2 shield if it's
> completely rusty/burned. Nothing else matters. And this can only be
> fixed by foo-proofing it of course.
>
Chuck, you are incorrect. Please start a wizard mode game, wish up a
"thoroughly corroded thoroughly rusty +5 orcish helm" and observe that
it gives an AC of 5.
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest? 

>>>> I do have force bolt (of course) and drain life as attack spells,
>>>> together with sleep and healing which seems to me quite a reasonable
>>>> collection; unfortunatelly, my failure rates are about 78% for those
>>>> spells, even after advancing attack-skill to Skilled... I think I must
>>>> get rid of the metallic body armour to raise it. This would mean
>>>> switching +3 elven mithril for some studded leather--is it worth it, or
>>>> should I rely on fighting with daggers until I get the Eye?
>>> That's almost as much of a style question as it is a question of damage
>>> figures, IMO. You could certainly switch to spells (btw, what keeps you
>>> from taking off the armor to take a peek at your naked failure rates?),
>>> but it would require some inventory management to get AC up again. Do
>>> you have a wish source? In that case, DSM would help there a lot. Also
>>> consider wearing some armor items that raise your failure rates a little
>>> and can be removed quickly if desired, eg a small shield.
>> Without the mithril I get rates near 0%--I haven't yet thought of
>> bothering with shields, but I could try finding an enchanted one in the
>> loot...
>
> Good idea. Just remember that it affects spell failure rates badly so
> you need to take it off before you cast.
>
> The other good thing is that you can enchant it so that you get a better
> AC.
>
>> But if I switch to casting as weapon, I'd have to fight without
>> it.
>
> You're a wizard. You're not trying to fight. Use spells and daggers for
> damage.

Yeah, I'm talking about fighting with spells... I'm planning to switch
to casting if possible, but then I would have to take the shield of for
combat if the rates are too high with it, and then I think the shield
would not be of much use. So I'll try without, I think.

Daniel

--
Got two Dear-Daniel-Instant Messages
by MSN, associate ICQ with stress--so
please use good, old E-MAIL!
 >> Stay informed about: What to do as Wizard between Mine's End and the Quest?