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Vengeance and creature untapped before it resolves

 
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Author Message
Maciej Zalewski

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Since: Jan 28, 2008
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:57 am
Post subject: Vengeance and creature untapped before it resolves
Archived from groups: rec>games>trading-cards>magic>rules (more info?)

Hi,

I have a question that occured during casual play with my friends:

The Vengeance is played on a tapped creature. Then this creature is
untapped before before Vengeance resolves (for example by someone playing
Twiddle). Then Vengeance resolves. Does it fizzle (since the creature is no
longer tapped) or is the creature destroyed? Thank you for help in advance!


Card Name: Vengeance
Card Color: White
Mana Cost: 3W
Type & Class: Sorcery
Card Text: Destroy target tapped creature.


--
Maciej Zalewski
(to contact me by email remove 'g' from the beginning of my address)

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David DeLaney

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Since: Jun 19, 2004
Posts: 996



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:57 am
Post subject: Re: Vengeance and creature untapped before it resolves [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Maciej Zalewski <gmaciejzal RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>The Vengeance is played on a tapped creature. Then this creature is
>untapped before before Vengeance resolves (for example by someone playing
>Twiddle). Then Vengeance resolves. Does it fizzle (since the creature is no
>longer tapped) or is the creature destroyed? Thank you for help in advance!
>
>Vengeance >3W >Sorcery
>Destroy target tapped creature.

The Vengeance gets countered for illegal target (which used to, 12 years ago
by now, be called 'fizzles'), because when it goes to resolve and checks its
target for legality the second time? The target is no longer legal. Since it
gets countered, none of its effect occurs, and the creature continues along,
undestroyed and humming annoyingly.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd RemoveThis @vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

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Dan Bressler

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Since: Aug 01, 2005
Posts: 37



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:22 am
Post subject: Re: Vengeance and creature untapped before it resolves [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Maciej Zalewski <gmaciejzal.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1j9k5hmxcdhuz$.176vc4t2hmmr6$.dlg@40tude.net:

> Hi,
>
> I have a question that occured during casual play with my friends:
>
> The Vengeance is played on a tapped creature. Then this creature is
> untapped before before Vengeance resolves (for example by someone
> playing Twiddle). Then Vengeance resolves. Does it fizzle (since the
> creature is no longer tapped) or is the creature destroyed? Thank you
> for help in advance!
>
>
> Card Name: Vengeance
> Card Color: White
> Mana Cost: 3W
> Type & Class: Sorcery
> Card Text: Destroy target tapped creature.
>
>

Legality of targets is checked twice: on announcement, and on
resolution. Since the creature is no longer a legal target, Vengeance
will be countered on resolution. The same thing would have happened if
the creature was given Protection from White in response to the spell.



Dan

"You keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it
means."
--Inigo Montoya
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Zoe Stephenson

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Since: Mar 30, 2006
Posts: 124



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Vengeance and creature untapped before it resolves [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Maciej Zalewski <gmaciejzal.RemoveThis@gmail.com> sent:
> Hi,

> I have a question that occured during casual play with my friends:

> The Vengeance is played on a tapped creature.

Vengeance {3}{W} Sorcery
/ Destroy target tapped creature.

> Then this creature is
> untapped before before Vengeance resolves (for example by someone playing
> Twiddle). Then Vengeance resolves.

The Comprehensive Rulebook says, in its description of resolution:

413.2a If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether
the targets are still legal. A target that's moved out of the zone it
was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game
state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its
characteristics may have changed or an effect may have changed the
text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it
was in, its last known information is used during this process to
determine its characteristics. The spell or ability is countered if
all its targets, for every instance of the word "target," are now
illegal. If the spell or ability is not countered, it will resolve
normally, affecting only the targets that are still legal. If a
target is illegal, the spell or ability can't perform any actions on
it or make the target perform any actions.

> Does it fizzle (since the creature is no
> longer tapped) or is the creature destroyed? Thank you for help in advance!

The targeting specification on Vengeance is "tapped creature". This is
the only sort of thing that's a legal target for Vengeance. Therefore,
Vengeance is countered because it tried to resolve without any legal
target.

--
-- Zoe Stephenson, NetRep rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules
Group FAQ: http://www.daeghnao.com/magic/faq/ --
--
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