Vanguard

On Oct 2, 9:35 pm, Faeandar <mr_casta... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:53:08 +1000, "Geoff" <fyreby... RemoveThis @dodo.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> >I have been given Vanguard as a present and was wondering if it is worth
> >playing. I have been playing everquest for a number of years and have been
> >enjoying it but lately have felt like i need a rest from it. so i was
> >wondering if i should give Vanguard a go and if anyone could tell me
> >something about it.


I tried Vanguard briefly and found that most of the innovations set to
distinguish it from EQ were just ... not impressive. So i returned to
EQ. But then i tried EQ2, and i think all sony really did was remove
all the things people complained about from EQ1 (corpse runs, looking
for a group, and anything "serious" or "tedious," depending on your
perspective). And it looks fantastic. I also think it's nice to be
around the familiar - lore of Al'Kabor, the music in kelethin, and the
idea of twists on original EQ (which i resisted at first). I'd
recommend trading in vanguard for EQ2 (both are $39.99 at most
retailers), assuming you haven't opened it. For a long time (7yr) EQ
player, EQ2 seems to be new-enough to work. Sorry i i'm gushing.
 >> Stay informed about: Vanguard 

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:44:28 -0000, c <smalltalkingchicken.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Oct 2, 9:35 pm, Faeandar <mr_casta....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:53:08 +1000, "Geoff" <fyreby....DeleteThis@dodo.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I have been given Vanguard as a present and was wondering if it is worth
>> >playing. I have been playing everquest for a number of years and have been
>> >enjoying it but lately have felt like i need a rest from it. so i was
>> >wondering if i should give Vanguard a go and if anyone could tell me
>> >something about it.
>
>
>I tried Vanguard briefly and found that most of the innovations set to
>distinguish it from EQ were just ... not impressive. So i returned to
>EQ. But then i tried EQ2, and i think all sony really did was remove
>all the things people complained about from EQ1 (corpse runs, looking
>for a group, and anything "serious" or "tedious," depending on your
>perspective). And it looks fantastic. I also think it's nice to be
>around the familiar - lore of Al'Kabor, the music in kelethin, and the
>idea of twists on original EQ (which i resisted at first). I'd
>recommend trading in vanguard for EQ2 (both are $39.99 at most
>retailers), assuming you haven't opened it. For a long time (7yr) EQ
>player, EQ2 seems to be new-enough to work. Sorry i i'm gushing.
>

I've played EQ for many years and tried EQ2, far too much of a
knock-off imo. If you want something new, get something new. EQ2 is
not new.

I think you underestimate the differences between VG and EQ, they are
pretty vast.
Crafting? Hands down VG has it over EQ and EQ2.
Diplomacy? The EQ's do not have this concept, and it's quite
entertaining.
Adventuring? EQ still owns this imo. EQ2 kinda sucked comparitively,
I like VG better than EQ2.

~F
 >> Stay informed about: Vanguard 

In article <1191422668.466787.281910.DeleteThis@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>,
c <smalltalkingchicken.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> EQ. But then i tried EQ2, and i think all sony really did was remove
> all the things people complained about from EQ1 (corpse runs, looking
> for a group, and anything "serious" or "tedious," depending on your
> perspective). And it looks fantastic. I also think it's nice to be
> around the familiar - lore of Al'Kabor, the music in kelethin, and the
> idea of twists on original EQ (which i resisted at first). I'd

How's the scale of the environment? When I played EQ2, a long time ago,
things seemed off. That is, buildings seemed too large in cities, and
outdoor zones seemed bigger than they had been in EQ1.

It's set later than EQ1, so I'd expect some changes, but these didn't
feel like those kind of changes.

--
--Tim Smith
 >> Stay informed about: Vanguard 

On Oct 3, 8:34 pm, Tim Smith <reply_in_gr....RemoveThis@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>
> How's the scale of the environment? When I played EQ2, a long time ago,
> things seemed off. That is, buildings seemed too large in cities, and
> outdoor zones seemed bigger than they had been in EQ1.
>

Err...i dunno, doesn't bother me. Do you mean "scale" in relation to
EQ1, or relative to itself? The zones are *huuuuge* but i never got
the feeling there was a scale issue. Maybe you're thinking qeynos?
There are a lot of buildings there, it can be sort of overwhelming.
Kelethin is spread out a lot more, it's less dense. Freeport is
ginormous, split into several zones. But they feel fine to me.
However, if you mean relative to EQ1, then yes the commonlands became
monstrous. 500 years is *not* enough time, geologically, for any of
the stuff that's happened to the world to happen. Look at all the
pangea~

Not perfect by any means. Sort of silly at times. Hell, mobs are
grouped by level, clustered together, almost in a set path you could
follow to non-stop play through all the levels of content offered by
the zone (this is true for most big, outdoor zones). EQ2 is just
*simple* EQ1, but it's fresh and that's where most ex-EQ1 people
ended up (the ones that went to WoW are dead to me...).

> It's set later than EQ1, so I'd expect some changes, but these didn't
> feel like those kind of changes.
>

I hear you. Again, silly stuff they did, and i'm not loving it the way
i loved EQ1. I'll probably get tired of the easy, value-less feel of
accomplishments, but for now it's actually something i look forward to
playing with my crew.

> --
> --Tim Smith

c
 >> Stay informed about: Vanguard 

On Oct 3, 2:44 pm, Faeandar <mr_casta....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:44:28 -0000, c <smalltalkingchic....DeleteThis@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Oct 2, 9:35 pm, Faeandar <mr_casta....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >I tried Vanguard briefly and found that most of the innovations set to
> >distinguish it from EQ were just ... not impressive. So i returned to
> >EQ. But then i tried EQ2, and i think all sony really did was remove
> >all the things people complained about from EQ1 (corpse runs, looking
> >for a group, and anything "serious" or "tedious," depending on your
> >perspective). And it looks fantastic. I also think it's nice to be
> >around the familiar - lore of Al'Kabor, the music in kelethin, and the
> >idea of twists on original EQ (which i resisted at first). I'd
> >recommend trading in vanguard for EQ2 (both are $39.99 at most
> >retailers), assuming you haven't opened it. For a long time (7yr) EQ
> >player, EQ2 seems to be new-enough to work. Sorry i i'm gushing.
>
> I've played EQ for many years and tried EQ2, far too much of a
> knock-off imo. If you want something new, get something new. EQ2 is
> not new.
>

Well ... i was saying the fact that it's a knock-off is good. I mean,
it's EQ-*two* for a reason. It's a knock-off of EQ. My point was that
i think it's new enough to be entertaining. I'm happy you disagree; i
would hate to think i could persuade you or anyone with a mere 6
sentences.

> I think you underestimate the differences between VG and EQ, they are
> pretty vast.
> Crafting? Hands down VG has it over EQ and EQ2.

I plead ignorance. I haven't played either enough to know my ass from
my elbow, and if i were uber i would still not craft unless my real
life depended on it. Except fletching, i like the idea of a ranger
getting by on his own...but haven't done it.

> Diplomacy? The EQ's do not have this concept, and it's quite
> entertaining.

Well...if you think it's entertaining, great. I think it's a card
game. And now both EQ1 and EQ2 have a card game. I think it's cash-cow
orientated bullshit. When i think, "boy, i sure would like to pretend
i'm part of a fellowship that defeats a dragon" i am never thinking,
"i want to emulate highschool nerds who play magic: the gathering." I
realize there's a distinction between the EQs' tacking-on of the card
game mechanism and Vanguard's contextual integration of it, but it's
still a !#*(&'ing card game. Why not just make the entire experience
minigames? Yes, in a way it already is, but i argue they fit an
aesthetic of role-playing and card games absolutely do not. Magic: the
gathering can be fun - but it's not a card game. And by "can" i
mean ... i believe some people that have played it actually enjoyed
it. Boy, i must sound like someone pissed in my wheaties.

> Adventuring? EQ still owns this imo. EQ2 kinda sucked comparitively,
> I like VG better than EQ2.
>
> ~F

That's what you think? Great. I think if you have a good group of
people you can have just as much fun anywhere. If your good group went
to VG, then you should be there - that's what's most fun. Ditto any
other universe. If that's not a factor, i think EQ2 is great for
people tired of EQ1.
 >> Stay informed about: Vanguard 

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 14:57:53 -0000, c
<smalltalkingchicken DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
]Kelethin is spread out a lot more, it's less dense. Freeport is
]ginormous, split into several zones. But they feel fine to me.

Freeport is now 2 zones, revamp some months ago.

I played Vanguard and WoW. I prefer EQ 1.

JimP.
--
http://www.linuxgazette.net/ Linux Gazette
http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/blog/ Oct 1, 2007 1E AD&D blog
http://www.drivein-jim.net/ Oct 2, 2007: Drive-In movie theatres
http://poetry.drivein-jim.net/ poetry blog July 9, 2007
 >> Stay informed about: Vanguard 

"Faeandar" <mr_castalot RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:n1n5g39cdchth33s3hc42tflerfv9ddbm8@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:53:08 +1000, "Geoff" <fyrebyrd1 RemoveThis @dodo.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> >I have been given Vanguard as a present and was wondering if it is worth
> >playing. I have been playing everquest for a number of years and have
been
> >enjoying it but lately have felt like i need a rest from it. so i was
> >wondering if i should give Vanguard a go and if anyone could tell me
> >something about it.
> >
>
>
> It depends on what you like. If you like killing bozos then nothing
> beats EQ still.
>
> If you think you may be interested in crafting, VG beats EQ hands
> down. it also has things like harvesting (my personal second favorite
> after killing bozos) and diplomacy. harvesting is akin to bone chip
> collecting for necros but on a much grander scale. All crafters need
> raw materials, which are supplied by harvesters. Wood, metal, stone,
> skins, and plants. You get to pick a primary and secondary, not all
> of them.
> Actually you don't get to pick all of crafting either. One area of
> focus, thats it. For example, I'm an artificer and cannot be a
> blacksmith. But as an artificer I can do carpentry and stonework as
> sub-skills.
> VG promotes alot of cooperation, partiulcaly in crafting. For
> instance, to make a boat you need the skills of a carpenter,
> blacksmith, and tailor for the boat and mast(s), rigging and
> fasteners, and the sails. It's quite a production in some cases but
> in the end it's a sense of accomplishment.
>
> The performance still leaves alot to be desired unless you have a high
> end machine. At 2.8GHz HT, 1GB RAM, and an 8x AGP ATI card (old I
> realize but the top end AGP I could get) it drops to 3-4 FPS in some
> places. Usually high particle effect and multiple mob areas but still
> brutal.
> Supposedly there is a fix on some broken spells that recapture about
> 15 FPS in those instances so we'll see.
>
> The world is huge and very cool to look at, but high end content is
> supposedly lacking. Personally it's not an issue as my highest toon
> is 31 Adventuring so I've not had an issue finding fun places with
> bozos in them.
>
> I would not have left EQ for VG if not for my guild, all RL friends.
> Now that I'm there I like it and have adapted to new aspects of play.
> I still like EQ and will always feel that it was the greatest computer
> game ever made, but that's how I am.
>
> ~F

I have levelled to 70 in EQ2 and 49.3 in VG.
I enjoyed both but I prefer VG over EQ2 even with the issues it has.

I like the non-instanced stuff.
I like being able to buff people out of group.
I love our guildhall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9xsIZRJ2b4#GU5U2spHI_4 (gratuitous plug)

Alot of people say there isn't any content at the end as raiding is not in
yet (within the next month).
There is still plenty to do, I think the majority of the claims are from
those who powered through the content and didn't enjoy it.

Crafting is fun, different from EQ2 in that you can get up to get a coffee
and come back to where you were.
You're given complications which hamper your progress and can be downright
annoying sometimes.

I really enjoy diplomacy too, the bunch of people in channel are really
helpful and you learn alot of lore from doing the quests and parleys.

I think to get the most out of the game you need to find a good bunch of
people to hang with or guild with.
It's worth reading the forums to make sure you pick a server you'll be happy
on and take it from there.

Don't forget the system requirements are minimum, and there are known issues
with some of the 8800gts cards I think it was, as well as Vista.

Still, a free month is a free month, give it a whirl!

- Floriana / Foxglove Serandon
 >> Stay informed about: Vanguard 

In article <1191509873.336221.258090 DeleteThis @d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
c <smalltalkingchicken DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> > How's the scale of the environment? When I played EQ2, a long time ago,
> > things seemed off. That is, buildings seemed too large in cities, and
> > outdoor zones seemed bigger than they had been in EQ1.
> >
>
> Err...i dunno, doesn't bother me. Do you mean "scale" in relation to
> EQ1, or relative to itself? The zones are *huuuuge* but i never got

Relative to itself. Compared to the size of characters, the buildings
in Qeynos seemed too tall, and the streets too wide.

Old cities should actually feel cramped by our standards. Look at small
towns in Europe, for example. They were built to accommodate foot
traffic and horses, with the occasional cart, and so when you fill them
with cars and buses, it is cramped. Qeynos felt like it was designed
for cars and buses, but in EQ, transportation for most citizens is foot
and horseback.

(And no, I was not playing a short race! ).

--
--Tim Smith
 >> Stay informed about: Vanguard 

it's massive, 17gigs worth of massive p
 >> Stay informed about: Vanguard 

"Pamela Carlton" <lambchop.RemoveThis@whocareswhere.com> wrote in message
news:13gaqbmc7u05gff@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Faeandar" <mr_castalot.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:n1n5g39cdchth33s3hc42tflerfv9ddbm8@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:53:08 +1000, "Geoff" <fyrebyrd1.RemoveThis@dodo.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I have been given Vanguard as a present and was wondering if it is worth
>> >playing. I have been playing everquest for a number of years and have
> been
>> >enjoying it but lately have felt like i need a rest from it. so i was
>> >wondering if i should give Vanguard a go and if anyone could tell me
>> >something about it.
>> >
>>
>>
>> It depends on what you like. If you like killing bozos then nothing
>> beats EQ still.
>>
>> If you think you may be interested in crafting, VG beats EQ hands
>> down. it also has things like harvesting (my personal second favorite
>> after killing bozos) and diplomacy. harvesting is akin to bone chip
>> collecting for necros but on a much grander scale. All crafters need
>> raw materials, which are supplied by harvesters. Wood, metal, stone,
>> skins, and plants. You get to pick a primary and secondary, not all
>> of them.
>> Actually you don't get to pick all of crafting either. One area of
>> focus, thats it. For example, I'm an artificer and cannot be a
>> blacksmith. But as an artificer I can do carpentry and stonework as
>> sub-skills.
>> VG promotes alot of cooperation, partiulcaly in crafting. For
>> instance, to make a boat you need the skills of a carpenter,
>> blacksmith, and tailor for the boat and mast(s), rigging and
>> fasteners, and the sails. It's quite a production in some cases but
>> in the end it's a sense of accomplishment.
>>
>> The performance still leaves alot to be desired unless you have a high
>> end machine. At 2.8GHz HT, 1GB RAM, and an 8x AGP ATI card (old I
>> realize but the top end AGP I could get) it drops to 3-4 FPS in some
>> places. Usually high particle effect and multiple mob areas but still
>> brutal.
>> Supposedly there is a fix on some broken spells that recapture about
>> 15 FPS in those instances so we'll see.
>>
>> The world is huge and very cool to look at, but high end content is
>> supposedly lacking. Personally it's not an issue as my highest toon
>> is 31 Adventuring so I've not had an issue finding fun places with
>> bozos in them.
>>
>> I would not have left EQ for VG if not for my guild, all RL friends.
>> Now that I'm there I like it and have adapted to new aspects of play.
>> I still like EQ and will always feel that it was the greatest computer
>> game ever made, but that's how I am.
>>
>> ~F
>
> I have levelled to 70 in EQ2 and 49.3 in VG.
> I enjoyed both but I prefer VG over EQ2 even with the issues it has.
>
> I like the non-instanced stuff.
> I like being able to buff people out of group.
> I love our guildhall
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9xsIZRJ2b4#GU5U2spHI_4 (gratuitous plug)
>
> Alot of people say there isn't any content at the end as raiding is not in
> yet (within the next month).
> There is still plenty to do, I think the majority of the claims are from
> those who powered through the content and didn't enjoy it.
>
> Crafting is fun, different from EQ2 in that you can get up to get a coffee
> and come back to where you were.
> You're given complications which hamper your progress and can be downright
> annoying sometimes.
>
> I really enjoy diplomacy too, the bunch of people in channel are really
> helpful and you learn alot of lore from doing the quests and parleys.
>
> I think to get the most out of the game you need to find a good bunch of
> people to hang with or guild with.
> It's worth reading the forums to make sure you pick a server you'll be
> happy
> on and take it from there.
>
> Don't forget the system requirements are minimum, and there are known
> issues
> with some of the 8800gts cards I think it was, as well as Vista.
>
> Still, a free month is a free month, give it a whirl!
>
> - Floriana / Foxglove Serandon
>

I wanted to like it. I wanted to love it really but I just couldn't play it
due to the system requirements. This same machine can run most any other
game with settings turned up at least somewhat but with VG I had to run with
them all down so much it looked awful and still lagged so badly as to be
unplayable. I have nothing against creating scalable graphics but either
that is some very badly optimized code or it is just overly ambitious for
the average PC gamer's hardware right now, today. They needed to ship
something that could run decent right then, when it shipped. Not when people
bought new systems, etc. The greatest problem they had at launch was so many
people willing to play it found it ran so badly for them they could not
begin to enjoy it and that killed the launch numbers and the game still
suffers for that bad decision. As a software development project, VG was
very poorly managed and that is no secret today. It's too bad because I am
inclined to think that as a game itself it is probably very good and more
akin to the original EverQuest than EQ2 ever was other than pirated lore.

That said, SOE did a remarkable job in fixing many issues in EQ2 to a point
where many regard it as a very good game today and I hope they can manage
this with Vanguard which as a game deserved better software development than
it got at least up to its ill fated launch.

For what it is worth, this is my gaming PC which I readily acknowlege is
midrange at best by today's standards but again, this computer runs
EverQuest, ran WoW, and all shooters preceding DX10 just fine with settings
up. It ran EQ2 pretty well also on balanced settings. Vanguard often
crawled in single digits fps regardless of how I fiddled with settings.

Intel 3.2 HT (dual core)
ASUS Motherboard
2 Gigs RAM
BFG Nvidia 7600 OC with 256 MB ram (yes I know this is lame for VG)
Soundblaster Audigy 2 into a stereo system with Bose Speakers
Windows XP SP2 with all current patches applied. DirectX 9.0c
* NOTHING else in memory I might add, no utilities, nothing when I am
gaming.

I am approaching time to upgrade but for now, the games I play run great. I
could not see buying a new computer for a game I haven't played long enough
to know I love enough to justify that expense. There would be no other
reason for me to spend the money today as all else I use/play works great.
 >> Stay informed about: Vanguard 

Dear friends,
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Sincerely yours
gm963
 >> Stay informed about: Vanguard 

Dear friends,
Welcome! This is GM963. We have the cheapest gold,the fastest speed, the safest way and the best reputation. To buy 5000G now only cost 170.99$, 2000G only cost 68.99$, and 1000G only cost 34.99$. What's more,we offer other additional services. Your satisfaction is our aim.
Sincerely yours
gm963
 >> Stay informed about: Vanguard 

Dear friends,
Welcome! This is GM963. We have the cheapest gold,the fastest speed, the safest way and the best reputation. To buy 5000G now only cost 170.99$, 2000G only cost 68.99$, and 1000G only cost 34.99$. What's more,we offer other additional services. Your satisfaction is our aim.
Sincerely yours
gm963
 >> Stay informed about: Vanguard