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Related Topics:
| Feedback For Valve - I was thinking it would be nice for us, AGHL to show our to Valve and combine (har har!) our thoughts on and EP1. This came about when Valve mention several times the feedback from their play testing teams. This came
Installing a game I own into Valve folder - If I already own a game that's recently been offered through Steam, can I uninstall and reinstall into my Valve folder to take advantage of auto updates, file integrity checks, file etc? TIA
Half-Life 2, Almost Finished (spoilers for sure) - Well I'm almost to the citadel, I think. I just got past that gate in the the one Alyx hacks open, then she gets or *shrug* Everybody keeps getting Anyway, it has been a fun game. Better than part one, and..
xfer to new computer - I am over half way through HL2 and got a new comp. Which files can I copy over to the new one to continue playing so I don't have to start over? Thanks
Half-Life 2 Deathmatch and firewall - I use Zonealarm as my firewall. I can play HALF-LIFE 2 with it turned on. But the other night, for the first time, I tried running the dedicated server over the Internet, via Steam, so that some buddies could join in on a game. I could see the server
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Next: Half Life: BTW, the rest of the game so far has been freakin' awesome!
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External
Since: Nov 21, 2006
Posts: 283
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Valve + nVidia = LOVE [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>games>action, others (more info?)
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"Shawk" <shawk.RemoveThis@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote in message
news:06adnc7huNz6xnLaRVnyjAA@bt.com...
> McG. wrote:
>
>>
>> I just bought an 8800GTX, will arrive Monday. Why'd I get it? Well,
>> got a 24" widwscreen HD LCD 1920x1200 monitor now. I still play Far Cry,
>> HL, HL2, Doom3, Quake4, Morrowind, Oblivion and several Tombraider games.
>> Sometimes. More, I do a lot of photography and 3D stuff now. Also, the
>> one 8800GTX is quite a bit faster than both my current 7800GTX256 meg
>> cards in SLI. And, I don't have to give up my dual monitor configuration
>> to use the 8800GTX power. Also, it's under $400 now. This same one last
>> year was $697.00
>> But the biggest reason I got it....is cause I wanted it 
>> McG.
>
>
> Hey, good to see you McG. Been a while. You've just reminded me to
> resubscribe to the PSP group.
>
> I was in two-minds recently (Xmas) about the GTX. It was still
> slaughtering the competition even after several new cards had been
> released and was dropping down to a great price. Went for the GTS 512MB
> in the end and that's been great for my normal rez of 1680x1050 but I'm
> still amazed how well the GTX has stood up to the competition for so long.
> I guess it goes to show the lack of competition from ATI... unfortunately.
Good to see you too Shawk! I been playing with 3D stuff a lot lately, plus
using the camera gear. A nearly two year old conversation in both camps,
the ATI and nVidia hardware ng's, about ATI card killers from nVidia and
nVidia card killers from ATI. I think it's pretty damn obvious what the
real outcome was. ATI got smeared. AMD picked up the smelly roadkill and
started cookin it. They've come up with some good stuff under AMD, but not
good enough for the prices.
I've had a hankering for the 8800GTX for a long time now. And the 9xxxGX2
is still two or three hundred more plus it requires a PCI E2 slot. Means
new mobo and cpu. There is a lot the 8800 can do folks don't talk about a
lot. They just play games tho Anyways, I'll find out tomorrow if my
very first BFG card is as good as all the talk has been for over a year.
Besides, I still play HL and HL2 a lot.
McG. |
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External
Since: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 390
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Valve + nVidia = LOVE [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"McG." <McGrandpaNOT RemoveThis @NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:A7udnb9dtKJTUnLanZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> I've had a hankering for the 8800GTX for a long time now. And the 9xxxGX2
> is still two or three hundred more plus it requires a PCI E2 slot.
OK I'm dumb, what's a PCI E2 slot? I didn't know it took a new type of PCI-E
slot. JLC |
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External
Since: Nov 21, 2006
Posts: 283
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Valve + nVidia = LOVE [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"JLC" <jc@nospam> wrote in message
news:VL-dnVGOh6MrRXLanZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "McG." <McGrandpaNOT.RemoveThis@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:A7udnb9dtKJTUnLanZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>
>> I've had a hankering for the 8800GTX for a long time now. And the
>> 9xxxGX2 is still two or three hundred more plus it requires a PCI E2
>> slot.
>
> OK I'm dumb, what's a PCI E2 slot? I didn't know it took a new type of
> PCI-E slot. JLC
>
The PCI Express slot in my K8-N-SLI mono is a PCIe 1.0 slot, and in the
newer mobos they are PCIe 2.0. The new 9xxx card requires the 2.0 slot.
That's all I know about it so far. Here's some quickies from Gigabytes mobo
site:
http://www.giga-byte.com/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?P...uctID=2
PCI-E 2.0 Graphics Interface
PCI-E 2.0 doubles the bus standard's bandwidth from 2.5 Gbit/s to 5 Gbit/s,
meaning a x32 connector can transfer data at up to 16 GB/s in each
direction. PCI-E 2.0 also features improvements to the point-to-point data
transfer protocol and its software architecture. >> Stay informed about: Valve + nVidia = LOVE |
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External
Since: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 390
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Valve + nVidia = LOVE [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"McG." <McGrandpaNOT.DeleteThis@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fbSdnTlUS5KDQXLanZ2dnUVZ_s2tnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "JLC" <jc@nospam> wrote in message
> news:VL-dnVGOh6MrRXLanZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "McG." <McGrandpaNOT.DeleteThis@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:A7udnb9dtKJTUnLanZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>
>>> I've had a hankering for the 8800GTX for a long time now. And the
>>> 9xxxGX2 is still two or three hundred more plus it requires a PCI E2
>>> slot.
>>
>> OK I'm dumb, what's a PCI E2 slot? I didn't know it took a new type of
>> PCI-E slot. JLC
>>
> The PCI Express slot in my K8-N-SLI mono is a PCIe 1.0 slot, and in the
> newer mobos they are PCIe 2.0. The new 9xxx card requires the 2.0 slot.
> That's all I know about it so far. Here's some quickies from Gigabytes
> mobo site:
> http://www.giga-byte.com/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?P...uctID=2
>
> PCI-E 2.0 Graphics Interface
> PCI-E 2.0 doubles the bus standard's bandwidth from 2.5 Gbit/s to 5
> Gbit/s, meaning a x32 connector can transfer data at up to 16 GB/s in each
> direction. PCI-E 2.0 also features improvements to the point-to-point data
> transfer protocol and its software architecture.
Thanks for the info. JLC >> Stay informed about: Valve + nVidia = LOVE |
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External
Since: Mar 07, 2005
Posts: 953
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Valve + nVidia = LOVE [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:31:53 -0600, "McG." <McGrandpaNOT.DeleteThis@NOThotmail.com>
wrote:
>
>"JLC" <jc@nospam> wrote in message
>news:VL-dnVGOh6MrRXLanZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "McG." <McGrandpaNOT.DeleteThis@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:A7udnb9dtKJTUnLanZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>
>>> I've had a hankering for the 8800GTX for a long time now. And the
>>> 9xxxGX2 is still two or three hundred more plus it requires a PCI E2
>>> slot.
>>
>> OK I'm dumb, what's a PCI E2 slot? I didn't know it took a new type of
>> PCI-E slot. JLC
>>
>The PCI Express slot in my K8-N-SLI mono is a PCIe 1.0 slot, and in the
>newer mobos they are PCIe 2.0. The new 9xxx card requires the 2.0 slot.
Actually that's not strictly true. My motherboard has no PCI-E2 slots. The
specs. for PCI-E2 state that it is backwards compatible so it will work on
older v1 boards. It works for me. I don't know if it is ever likely to max it
out and I have some kind of bottleneck here but from what I have seen in
Crysis, if there is a bottleneck I don't need to worry about it as it flies. >> Stay informed about: Valve + nVidia = LOVE |
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External
Since: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 390
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Valve + nVidia = LOVE [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Memnoch" <memnoch.TakeThisOut@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:dr10v3hl8du5jnimql65firgpn34ri0bbf@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:31:53 -0600, "McG." <McGrandpaNOT.TakeThisOut@NOThotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"JLC" <jc@nospam> wrote in message
>>news:VL-dnVGOh6MrRXLanZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "McG." <McGrandpaNOT.TakeThisOut@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:A7udnb9dtKJTUnLanZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>
>>>> I've had a hankering for the 8800GTX for a long time now. And the
>>>> 9xxxGX2 is still two or three hundred more plus it requires a PCI E2
>>>> slot.
>>>
>>> OK I'm dumb, what's a PCI E2 slot? I didn't know it took a new type of
>>> PCI-E slot. JLC
>>>
>>The PCI Express slot in my K8-N-SLI mono is a PCIe 1.0 slot, and in the
>>newer mobos they are PCIe 2.0. The new 9xxx card requires the 2.0 slot.
>
> Actually that's not strictly true. My motherboard has no PCI-E2 slots. The
> specs. for PCI-E2 state that it is backwards compatible so it will work on
> older v1 boards. It works for me. I don't know if it is ever likely to max
> it
> out and I have some kind of bottleneck here but from what I have seen in
> Crysis, if there is a bottleneck I don't need to worry about it as it
> flies.
That's what I thought. It's seems to be another marking ploy to get gamers
to shell out money on new MB's. Thanks for the info, I'm so green I think
I'm gonna need to puke! Oh well the price on that monster of yours will come
down to my price range some day.
On a side note have you heard about the new Nvidia MB's that have onboard
graphics that run with your card? The idea is to save power and heat build
up by having the main graphic card shut down when not running games and just
use the onboard chip for 2D. Read about it on Gamespot. JLC >> Stay informed about: Valve + nVidia = LOVE |
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External
Since: Mar 07, 2005
Posts: 953
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Valve + nVidia = LOVE [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:21:08 -0700, "JLC" <jc@nospam> wrote:
>
>"Memnoch" <memnoch.TakeThisOut@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>news:dr10v3hl8du5jnimql65firgpn34ri0bbf@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:31:53 -0600, "McG." <McGrandpaNOT.TakeThisOut@NOThotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"JLC" <jc@nospam> wrote in message
>>>news:VL-dnVGOh6MrRXLanZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>> "McG." <McGrandpaNOT.TakeThisOut@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:A7udnb9dtKJTUnLanZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I've had a hankering for the 8800GTX for a long time now. And the
>>>>> 9xxxGX2 is still two or three hundred more plus it requires a PCI E2
>>>>> slot.
>>>>
>>>> OK I'm dumb, what's a PCI E2 slot? I didn't know it took a new type of
>>>> PCI-E slot. JLC
>>>>
>>>The PCI Express slot in my K8-N-SLI mono is a PCIe 1.0 slot, and in the
>>>newer mobos they are PCIe 2.0. The new 9xxx card requires the 2.0 slot.
>>
>> Actually that's not strictly true. My motherboard has no PCI-E2 slots. The
>> specs. for PCI-E2 state that it is backwards compatible so it will work on
>> older v1 boards. It works for me. I don't know if it is ever likely to max
>> it
>> out and I have some kind of bottleneck here but from what I have seen in
>> Crysis, if there is a bottleneck I don't need to worry about it as it
>> flies.
>
>That's what I thought. It's seems to be another marking ploy to get gamers
>to shell out money on new MB's. Thanks for the info, I'm so green I think
>I'm gonna need to puke! Oh well the price on that monster of yours will come
>down to my price range some day.
>On a side note have you heard about the new Nvidia MB's that have onboard
>graphics that run with your card? The idea is to save power and heat build
>up by having the main graphic card shut down when not running games and just
>use the onboard chip for 2D. Read about it on Gamespot. JLC
Yeah, I was reading about those yesterday. The plan for Nvidia now appears to
be no more discrete chipsets, instead including an onboard VGA solution
allowing what you describe. The idea is to save power by not using the plugin
accelerator when it is not needed. As one forum member stated though, if you
can afford the high end cards, why would you be worrying about power
consumption!? >> Stay informed about: Valve + nVidia = LOVE |
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External
Since: Nov 21, 2006
Posts: 283
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:25 am
Post subject: Re: Valve + nVidia = LOVE [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Memnoch" <memnoch DeleteThis @nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:dr10v3hl8du5jnimql65firgpn34ri0bbf@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:31:53 -0600, "McG." <McGrandpaNOT DeleteThis @NOThotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"JLC" <jc@nospam> wrote in message
>>news:VL-dnVGOh6MrRXLanZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "McG." <McGrandpaNOT DeleteThis @NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:A7udnb9dtKJTUnLanZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>
>>>> I've had a hankering for the 8800GTX for a long time now. And the
>>>> 9xxxGX2 is still two or three hundred more plus it requires a PCI E2
>>>> slot.
>>>
>>> OK I'm dumb, what's a PCI E2 slot? I didn't know it took a new type of
>>> PCI-E slot. JLC
>>>
>>The PCI Express slot in my K8-N-SLI mono is a PCIe 1.0 slot, and in the
>>newer mobos they are PCIe 2.0. The new 9xxx card requires the 2.0 slot.
>
> Actually that's not strictly true. My motherboard has no PCI-E2 slots. The
> specs. for PCI-E2 state that it is backwards compatible so it will work on
> older v1 boards. It works for me. I don't know if it is ever likely to max
> it
> out and I have some kind of bottleneck here but from what I have seen in
> Crysis, if there is a bottleneck I don't need to worry about it as it
> flies.
I've read some more on the specs for PCIe2. Seems that v.2 can allow x16
bi-directionally, for their "total bandwidth" figure of x32. That fits the
definition of 'full duplex', or simultaneous bi-direction. So in v1 it's
8+8 full duplex and v2 is 16+16 full duplex. Backward compatibility to v1
is maintained, so the 9xxx cards will work fine in the v1 slots.
McG. >> Stay informed about: Valve + nVidia = LOVE |
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External
Since: Mar 07, 2005
Posts: 953
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Valve + nVidia = LOVE [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 05:25:26 -0600, "McG." <McGrandpaNOT RemoveThis @NOThotmail.com>
wrote:
>
>"Memnoch" <memnoch RemoveThis @nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>news:dr10v3hl8du5jnimql65firgpn34ri0bbf@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:31:53 -0600, "McG." <McGrandpaNOT RemoveThis @NOThotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"JLC" <jc@nospam> wrote in message
>>>news:VL-dnVGOh6MrRXLanZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>> "McG." <McGrandpaNOT RemoveThis @NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:A7udnb9dtKJTUnLanZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I've had a hankering for the 8800GTX for a long time now. And the
>>>>> 9xxxGX2 is still two or three hundred more plus it requires a PCI E2
>>>>> slot.
>>>>
>>>> OK I'm dumb, what's a PCI E2 slot? I didn't know it took a new type of
>>>> PCI-E slot. JLC
>>>>
>>>The PCI Express slot in my K8-N-SLI mono is a PCIe 1.0 slot, and in the
>>>newer mobos they are PCIe 2.0. The new 9xxx card requires the 2.0 slot.
>>
>> Actually that's not strictly true. My motherboard has no PCI-E2 slots. The
>> specs. for PCI-E2 state that it is backwards compatible so it will work on
>> older v1 boards. It works for me. I don't know if it is ever likely to max
>> it
>> out and I have some kind of bottleneck here but from what I have seen in
>> Crysis, if there is a bottleneck I don't need to worry about it as it
>> flies.
>
>I've read some more on the specs for PCIe2. Seems that v.2 can allow x16
>bi-directionally, for their "total bandwidth" figure of x32. That fits the
>definition of 'full duplex', or simultaneous bi-direction. So in v1 it's
>8+8 full duplex and v2 is 16+16 full duplex. Backward compatibility to v1
>is maintained, so the 9xxx cards will work fine in the v1 slots.
>McG.
Although possibly slower I guess. But then I've never been one to obsess over
benchmarks. If it can play the games I want to play well I don't care if I'm
losing a couple of FPS because I haven't overclocked. >> Stay informed about: Valve + nVidia = LOVE |
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External
Since: Nov 21, 2006
Posts: 283
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:37 am
Post subject: Re: Valve + nVidia = LOVE [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Memnoch" <memnoch.DeleteThis@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:p335v31dp617a3dufobo7u4o2r6jk60era@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 05:25:26 -0600, "McG." <McGrandpaNOT.DeleteThis@NOThotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Memnoch" <memnoch.DeleteThis@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>news:dr10v3hl8du5jnimql65firgpn34ri0bbf@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:31:53 -0600, "McG." <McGrandpaNOT.DeleteThis@NOThotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"JLC" <jc@nospam> wrote in message
>>>>news:VL-dnVGOh6MrRXLanZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "McG." <McGrandpaNOT.DeleteThis@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:A7udnb9dtKJTUnLanZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've had a hankering for the 8800GTX for a long time now. And the
>>>>>> 9xxxGX2 is still two or three hundred more plus it requires a PCI E2
>>>>>> slot.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK I'm dumb, what's a PCI E2 slot? I didn't know it took a new type of
>>>>> PCI-E slot. JLC
>>>>>
>>>>The PCI Express slot in my K8-N-SLI mono is a PCIe 1.0 slot, and in the
>>>>newer mobos they are PCIe 2.0. The new 9xxx card requires the 2.0 slot.
>>>
>>> Actually that's not strictly true. My motherboard has no PCI-E2 slots.
>>> The
>>> specs. for PCI-E2 state that it is backwards compatible so it will work
>>> on
>>> older v1 boards. It works for me. I don't know if it is ever likely to
>>> max
>>> it
>>> out and I have some kind of bottleneck here but from what I have seen in
>>> Crysis, if there is a bottleneck I don't need to worry about it as it
>>> flies.
>>
>>I've read some more on the specs for PCIe2. Seems that v.2 can allow x16
>>bi-directionally, for their "total bandwidth" figure of x32. That fits
>>the
>>definition of 'full duplex', or simultaneous bi-direction. So in v1 it's
>>8+8 full duplex and v2 is 16+16 full duplex. Backward compatibility to v1
>>is maintained, so the 9xxx cards will work fine in the v1 slots.
>>McG.
>
> Although possibly slower I guess. But then I've never been one to obsess
> over
> benchmarks. If it can play the games I want to play well I don't care if
> I'm
> losing a couple of FPS because I haven't overclocked.
What I like about using this particular vid card is it gives me more
performance by itself than both 7800GTX cards in SLI. Means no messing up
my dualview setup coming back from SLI too.
McG. >> Stay informed about: Valve + nVidia = LOVE |
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External
Since: Jan 04, 2005
Posts: 217
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Valve + nVidia = LOVE [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Memnoch wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:21:08 -0700, "JLC" <jc@nospam> wrote:
> if you
> can afford the high end cards, why would you be worrying about power
> consumption!?
Because you heart the environment?
(Or because it's just a thing they put on the laptop chips and has
filtered though to desktop...)
Civilian_Target >> Stay informed about: Valve + nVidia = LOVE |
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External
Since: May 29, 2007
Posts: 47
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Valve + nVidia = LOVE [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jan 11, 2005
Posts: 247
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(Msg. 28) Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Valve + nVidia = LOVE [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 22:13:03 -0800 (PST), Beladi Nasrallah
<nasralla.TakeThisOut@inbox.com> wrote:
> I decided that I would buy a 8800GT only when I am faced with an
> interesting game which requires a performance higher than can be
> provided by 7600GT.
Tried Bioshock yet? It might well be That Game.
I got an 8800GT and am *loving* it. With BioShock, and with the
Half-Life/TF2 games.
--
Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody
Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm
robotech.master.TakeThisOut@gmail.com | Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in
robotech.TakeThisOut@eyrie.org | Yahoo: robotech_master_2000 | a sig file! >> Stay informed about: Valve + nVidia = LOVE |
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