VTES: The eternal rule book

A gazillion? WW seems fixated with adding as much new rules as possible
to the game. Soon it´s ABSOLUTELY impossible to teach a newbie.
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James Coupe wrote:
> In message <1143193217.100992.267100.TakeThisOut@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
> ashur.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com writes:
> >A gazillion? WW seems fixated with adding as much new rules as possible
> >to the game. Soon it´s ABSOLUTELY impossible to teach a newbie.
>
> It's not that bad.
>
(snip)
> Keep the deck they start with simple, and a newbie can still pick things
> up just the same as ever.

NO! I'm going to give my noobs Turbo Tiabelle Tech!

Still though... the rule book IS thick... easy to understand or not.

~SV
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In message <1143193217.100992.267100.DeleteThis@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
ashur.DeleteThis@hotmail.com writes:
>A gazillion? WW seems fixated with adding as much new rules as possible
>to the game. Soon it´s ABSOLUTELY impossible to teach a newbie.

It's not that bad.

Many of them function off card traits, so until such a trait appears
it's entirely irrelevant to the newbie. And a number of the new things
- like dual discipline and three-ways - aren't actually hard to teach
anyone: "You have to meet, or beat, the requirements to the left of the
ability you want to use." Not hard, and applies to mono disciplines,
fallbacks, three-ways etc. Imbued edges function that way too. Black
Hand is just a trait. Seraph is just a trait. Anarch is a bit weird,
but hardly difficult - "They're Indepdendent and Anarchs. You can
become Anarch if you want, but you probably won't bother right now."
Event cards are just another card that can be played at a particular
point. Red List and Trophies can be almost entirely ignored. Reflex
cards can be happily ignored.

Keep the deck they start with simple, and a newbie can still pick things
up just the same as ever.

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
 >> Stay informed about: VTES: The eternal rule book 

> Anyone wanna take bets on how many additional words of rules are being
> added?

More than the number of new cards, that's for sure.
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In message <1143209799.581168.136870 DeleteThis @u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
Screaming Vermillian <alexandernjames DeleteThis @gmail.com> writes:
>Still though... the rule book IS thick... easy to understand or not.

The rulebook has been fairly chunk since V:TES. (The Jyhad one was a
bit thinner, as I recall.)

V:TES is a complex game, and the rules are relatively complicated
compared to some games. That's always been the case, really, and I
don't think anyone could really argue to the contrary. But I don't
think it's become that much more complex to introduce to newbies, even
if you might want to say "Oh, there are a few other things that can be
on vampires, but we'll explain them if they come up, okay?"

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
 >> Stay informed about: VTES: The eternal rule book 

one thing i recommend. take your copy of the most recent rulebook.
take it to your local copy/enlargement center. take out the staple.
using a 2-sided copier, enlarge it enough to fit on 8.5x11 paper, then
re-staple to about 5.5x8.5. pay for your copies (under $3 where i did
it.). if you're anal about it, slightly trim the open edge with the
paper cutter.
open your new rulebook, and relax while reading something that doesn't
give your methuselah a permanent -2 on all effects involving <eyeball>.
it is truly daunting for a anyone, especially a noob, to try to read
50+ pages in a rulebook that looks like it came out of a crackerjack
box. i strongly recommend that WW print these (for less than a dollar,
i assume,) and distribute them for cheap or free. once you read it in
full size, you realize that although complex, the rulebook is actually
fairly understandable.
spore, mage
"the quickness of the eye deceives the mind." - Green Is the Colour,
pink floyd
 >> Stay informed about: VTES: The eternal rule book 

SPORE wrote:
> one thing i recommend. take your copy of the most recent rulebook.
> take it to your local copy/enlargement center. take out the staple.
> using a 2-sided copier, enlarge it enough to fit on 8.5x11 paper, then
> re-staple to about 5.5x8.5. pay for your copies (under $3 where i did
> it.). if you're anal about it, slightly trim the open edge with the
> paper cutter.
> open your new rulebook, and relax while reading something that doesn't
> give your methuselah a permanent -2 on all effects involving <eyeball>.
> it is truly daunting for a anyone, especially a noob, to try to read
> 50+ pages in a rulebook that looks like it came out of a crackerjack
> box. i strongly recommend that WW print these (for less than a dollar,
> i assume,) and distribute them for cheap or free. once you read it in
> full size, you realize that although complex, the rulebook is actually
> fairly understandable.

Its true. I do find the online rulebook sightly less daunting than the
crackjack rulebook.

Heheh. I said cracker.

~SV
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Screaming Vermillian wrote:
> Anyone wanna take bets on how many additional words of rules are being
> added?

The last one threw out the index to have place for the new rules. Maybe
the next gets rid of the table of contents?

Frank
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x5mofr DeleteThis @gmx.de wrote:
> Screaming Vermillian wrote:
> > Anyone wanna take bets on how many additional words of rules are being
> > added?
>
> The last one threw out the index to have place for the new rules. Maybe
> the next gets rid of the table of contents?

?
LoB rulebook has a seven-page index. (pp. 57-63)
 >> Stay informed about: VTES: The eternal rule book 

LSJ wrote:
> ?
> LoB rulebook has a seven-page index. (pp. 57-63)

Ok, take that as an excuse.

I hadn't noticed that after KMW the index was put back into the
rulebook. I very appreciate that.

Frank
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i gotta add my 2 cents here. I started playing Jyhad in Jan 1842 cos it
seemed to be a game about mad bombers or something. Then i realised it
was about vampires. AND I WAS HOOKED!!!!! Now WW are seeming to want to
dilute this by adding a whole bunch of martal allies. What next,
werewolfs? Oh, hang on, that was "Rage". Cool game and all, but if I
wanna play a game vampires, well then i knida wanna see vampires, you
know? So please please please stick to the vampires. If you guys are
running out of ideas as to what to do with vampires, and somehow you
have to turn a buck, cool. Reprint Sabbat. Multiple adavntages as in
you don't have to pay R&D a cent, it will definitely sell like crck
cocaine, and.... Hm well apart from me going bankrupt as I will spend
my incomwe for the next three years buing more Sabbat, I cannot see any
disadavntages. So please, cool it on the major changes. The reason i
play V:TES and not magic, is that the rules from Jyhad and the New
rules are still fairly similar. Please don't mess with that, cos
inevitably it leads to banned cards, massive amounts of errata, etc.
 >> Stay informed about: VTES: The eternal rule book 

Blooded Sand wrote:
> i gotta add my 2 cents here. I started playing Jyhad in Jan 1842 cos it
> seemed to be a game about mad bombers or something. Then i realised it
> was about vampires. AND I WAS HOOKED!!!!! Now WW are seeming to want to
> dilute this by adding a whole bunch of martal allies. What next,
> werewolfs? Oh, hang on, that was "Rage". Cool game and all, but if I
> wanna play a game vampires, well then i knida wanna see vampires, you
> know? So please please please stick to the vampires. If you guys are
> running out of ideas as to what to do with vampires, and somehow you
> have to turn a buck, cool. Reprint Sabbat. Multiple adavntages as in
> you don't have to pay R&D a cent, it will definitely sell like crck
> cocaine, and.... Hm well apart from me going bankrupt as I will spend
> my incomwe for the next three years buing more Sabbat, I cannot see any
> disadavntages. So please, cool it on the major changes. The reason i
> play V:TES and not magic, is that the rules from Jyhad and the New
> rules are still fairly similar. Please don't mess with that, cos
> inevitably it leads to banned cards, massive amounts of errata, etc.

No, I'm pretty sure they're not going to ban cards because of this next
set... and also... um... about the whole hunter thing. Get over it?
Hunters are integral to the whole 'vampire' genre. They're an important
part (or should have played an important part) in the old world of
darkness. Hunters still fit the theme pretty well. I don't really see a
problem with it.
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