VTES 3E news from Gencon...

"Jozxyqk" <jfeuerst RemoveThis @eecs.tufts.edu> wrote in message
news:xqWdnehKrKNzXUHZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> According to a post on vtes.livejournal.com,
>
> =============
> THIRD EDITION CARDS ARE PRINTED WITH UPSIDE DOWN BACKS.
>
> Just thought you should know.

Cool. Now we have to play hanging upside down from
the chandelier.

Fred
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Fred Scott wrote:

> Cool. Now we have to play hanging upside down from
> the chandelier.

Uh, I guess I don't see why it matters that much.

I mean, you're looking at the other side most of the time, right? I
guess it might allow for you to get tricky with only putting
Deflections in from 3E or whatever, but it seems like a long way to go
just to get a slight advantage.


Xian
wrong side up?
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Salem wrote:
> If i arrange my library so that all the card backs are aligned the same
> way, and then place it off to the right where i can reach it easy when i
> draw a card, and then sometimes when i draw a card and out it in my hand
> it's upside down instead of the right way up, it's just going to irk me.

Yeah, see, that's not going to bug me too much, because I'm "one of
those people" (as Ben would have it) where I frequently mix up my card
orientation while shuffling, or collecting my deck after the game or
whatever.

> The next question would be (if true), if third ed gets reprinted, should
> they fix it to make it the same as all the other cards, or leave it so
> that all your third ed cards are the same?

I would think that it will probably be fixed, based on past experience.


Xian
not very experienced
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Xian wrote:
> Yeah, see, that's not going to bug me too much, because I'm "one of
> those people" (as Ben would have it) where I frequently mix up my card
> orientation while shuffling, or collecting my deck after the game or
> whatever.
>

But we can still tell which cards are which based on their orientation.
This is just a conspiracy to let White Wolf to sell card sleeves.

> > The next question would be (if true), if third ed gets reprinted, should
> > they fix it to make it the same as all the other cards, or leave it so
> > that all your third ed cards are the same?
>
> I would think that it will probably be fixed, based on past experience.

Making life amusing for us collectors. Maybe they just made them upside
down for use at GenCon as a promotional item. Now *that* would be
obnoxious to collectors.

--
- Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
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Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote:
> Ssh! They'll think it's some sort of Boston V:tES conspiracy. Let
> Bakija or Fluornoy reply.

Heh. If, in fact, the cards are upsidedown, I can't really see how
it'll make much different, nor really upset that many people.

-Peter
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Fred Scott wrote:
> "Xian" wruote:
> > I mean, you're looking at the other side most of the time, right?
>
> Were it true - and I really have no idea, but just for the sake
> of argument - then it would cause a certain problem when not
> playing with card sleeves.

[lapses into Peter-isms]

Yeah, see, I'm aware of the problems that it could cause, but I really
don't see them as being anything other than minor irritations.

If you "know" your opponent is playing with 3rd Edition cards because
they're oriented upside-down, then maybe you know that he doesn't have
a PTO in his hand or something, but in general, it seems like the
amount of information you could gain from that is pretty limited.

Now, if someone is cheating, by using all 3E versions of card X (and
nothing else), then sure, that's a problem, but it's not necessarily
unique to 3E. It's just easier to spot. There are plenty of people
(apparently...I'm not one of them) that can tell exactly what set a
card is from just by looking at the back. That needs to be addressed
under the general cheating rules, rather than by declaring that the
world is ending because there's a problem with 3E, you know?


Xian
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"Xian" <xian RemoveThis @visi.com> wrote in message
news:1155320922.224221.122700@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> Fred Scott wrote:
>
>> Cool. Now we have to play hanging upside down from
>> the chandelier.
>
> Uh, I guess I don't see why it matters that much.
>
> I mean, you're looking at the other side most of the time, right?

Were it true - and I really have no idea, but just for the sake
of argument - then it would cause a certain problem when not
playing with card sleeves. I think most people play with cards
aligned such that they can read text right side up. This would
show 3E cards from other cards by looking at the back - the only
cards whose card backs were oriented upside down. It would be
nearly as aggravating as the card back change, actually. Except
I would never think White Wolf would do such a thing on purpose,
unlike WotC. If they even did it, of course. And there would
exist the mitigation, irritating though it would be, that you
could orient your 3E cards upside down in your hand so as not
to give them away. And the standing mitigation of using opaque
card sleeves, which didn't exist at the time Jyhad was reprinted.

Fred

speculations running rampant
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Fred Scott wrote:
> This would show 3E cards from other cards by looking at the back - the only
> cards whose card backs were oriented upside down.

Sort of. How many cards can you see the faces of (and by "faces" I mean
"back faces") when your opponent is holding a hand of cards? You can
see most of the back of the topmost one, and of the rest, you can only
see the green edge, which doesn't give away any information. So as long
as you don't have an upsidedown 3rd ed card as you top card in your
fan, your opponents don't get any information. And if you are forced to
make the topmost card of your fan a 3rd ed card, that means your hand
is full of 3rd ed cards, and no information is given away.

A minor inconvinience in that you have to keep track of what your top
most fanned card is. But other than that, hardly strikes me as an
issue.

-Peter
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"Xian" <xian DeleteThis @visi.com> wrote in message
news:1155324627.891951.203450@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> Fred Scott wrote:
>> "Xian" wruote:
>> > I mean, you're looking at the other side most of the time, right?
>>
>> Were it true - and I really have no idea, but just for the sake
>> of argument - then it would cause a certain problem when not
>> playing with card sleeves.
>
> [lapses into Peter-isms]
>
> Yeah, see, I'm aware of the problems that it could cause, but I really
> don't see them as being anything other than minor irritations.

Ah, I can't really work up a good, healthy case of nerd rage about it
either. (I *love* that term by the way! It's my new motto: "Nerd
raging about life's unfair aggravations!") I got pretty outraged
about the changed card back thing between Jyhad and V:tES editions
because it was deliberate and done in the name of politically correct
values of (IMHO) dubious validity. But something like this...eh, the
most I could see putting out is a few deranged mumblings about
incompetent people not keeping track of what they were doing.

Anyway, I don't understand why they'd be drafting 3E at Gencon
anyway. Special pre-pre-releases don't strike me as very disciplined
marketing. Just as likely folks are pulling the legs of us poor
disadvantaged non-attendees so they can have something to chuckle
about over their beers at dinner. Who knows?

Fred
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I wrote:
> A minor inconvinience in that you have to keep track of what your top
> most fanned card is. But other than that, hardly strikes me as an
> issue.

Heh. I just went and checked out the actual card backs, and due to the
stupid "deckmaster" label on the cards, you can, in fact, see which
cards are upsidedown when fanned out in someone's hand. Stupid card
back design.

-Peter
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Orpheus wrote:
> Seriously, don't we all play with opaque sleeves ?

Goodness no. Of my local group, maybe one guy regularly plays with
sleeves on his library (pretty much everyone uses sleeves on the crypt,
though). I can't stand having sleeves on my library--too hard to
shuffle, the deck falls over a lot, just all around inconvinient.

-Peter
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Orpheus wrote:
> > > This would show 3E cards from other cards by looking at the back - the
> > > only cards whose card backs were oriented upside down.
>
> Seriously, don't we all play with opaque sleeves ? Since this was asked of
> us in tournaments if we had Jyhad cards in certain proportions, we all took
> to the habitude, and so if this - probably a joke - thing is true, it only
> would be bothersome while sleeving the cards, to some (very negligible IMO)
> extent...

Actually, I started dismantling a few decks that were lying around, and
discovered that inconsistently sided backs will also be an annoyance
when I'm putting cards away in horizontal card boxes or laying large
stacks out sideways. It would also drive me slightly nuts that it would
be impossible to get all the cards facing the same way(s). Really, I
have to wonder just how this sort of error could have come about. Who
has been checking these cards for quality?

--
- Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
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Salem <salem_christ.geo.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in news:44dce2ad$1
@dnews.tpgi.com.au:

> Fred Scott wrote:
>> I got pretty outraged
>> about the changed card back thing between Jyhad and V:tES editions
>> because it was deliberate and done in the name of politically correct
>> values of (IMHO) dubious validity.
>
> From memory, the 'official' line post-implementation was so that it
> could be more readily identifiable as a game about vampires. Personally,
> I didn't like it much either, or believe that line to be the major
> reason (more just one minor reason among several they had, which was
> chosen as seemingly being the most 'palatable' by the masses).
>


It turns out, that card back change was an Incredibly Smart Move(tm),
regardless of the reasons. Can you imagine trying to play this game and/or
recruit new players Post-9/11, if the cards had Jyhad backs, display boxes
with Jyhad all over them, Jyhad advertisements in Scrye etc etc? The game
would have disappeared in a puff of public outrage, before you could even
have said *boo* in defense of it...

DZ
AW
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