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[40k] VDR for a chaos Hind vtol

 
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cheezhankrn

External


Since: Dec 07, 2007
Posts: 14



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:07 pm
Post subject: [40k] VDR for a chaos Hind vtol
Archived from groups: rec>games>miniatures>warhammer (more info?)

I recently found the box of my old airplane models and decided to
convert a 1/32 mil24 Hind to chaos.
I chopped off the blades (I hate helicopters, flimsy things), replaced
the stub wings with bigger wings from a 1/72 bomber. The engines are
getting greenstuffed look like a flamers fungus feet with an osprey
like VTOL configuration.
Weapons are the chin turret. Which looks tiny compared to a 40k
weapon. So i might replace.
It can transport I guess 6 guys.
and whatever I hang off the wings. It had 4 bombs but I think I'll
replace them with missiles or rocket multi pods.

What are the present legal VDR rules? Is the ones in apoc the same as
the old ones?
I'm not too concerned about the rules, this model is more for display
and just the fun of creation. But I do want whatever I make able to be
used legally and sensibly if I do play some Apoc.

Any suggestions for armaments etc while I'm still in early stages?
I'll post pics if anyone cares and everyone hasn't just killfiled
google posts. Smile

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Playa

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Since: May 24, 2007
Posts: 70



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:03 am
Post subject: Re: VDR for a chaos Hind vtol [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Hey,

On Dec 7, 10:07 pm, cheezhan....RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:

> What are the present legal VDR rules?

Rules for Flyers:

http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/gaming/flyers/download.htm?/gam...40k/gam


Playa

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Playa

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Since: May 24, 2007
Posts: 70



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:20 am
Post subject: Re: VDR for a chaos Hind vtol [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Hey,

On Dec 8, 9:30 am, "Spack" <n... DeleteThis @worldofspack.co.uk> wrote:
> Those aren't much use without the rest of the VDR -

With respect, "Use the Aquila rules" is of limited use, too.

The pdf covers Attack Runs, and the rules for Flyer Weapons.
Also, Orbital landers and an example Bomber are included.

See also:

ttp://www.warbozz.dk/warhr40k/VDR_Help.html

> In Apocalypse which the OP asked about they're useless anyway - Apocalypse
> has it's own flyer rules.

Yes, rules with which all 40kA players will already be familiar -
You can't play Apocalypse without having the rule book, right?
Also, these discussions are archived, and so not just 'for' the OPs.

Therefore, for all interested parties -

+++

Flyer Basics


Your Skin Is Thin

Just like modern aircraft, Flyers of the 41st millennium are not
heavily armored. They can't carry the weight of armor plating and
still be able to fly - even the most well-armored attack plane of
today has weak armor compared to even a half-track vehicle. This thin
skin is reflected in the Armor Values of the Flyers in the Imperial
Armour books. Even the Super-Heavy, 680-point Thunderhawk Gunship only
has a maximum AV of 12 - less than a Space Marine Predator tank. The
average fighter has an AV of 10, which is nothing to brag about. Which
brings us to the next point...

Speed Is Your Ally

Aircraft and spacecraft rely on speed and maneuverability to survive
the trials of combat. This fact is reflected in the rules - your
Flyers are moving so fast that you can only be hit on a 6 regardless
of BS (unless the shooter has an anti-aircraft mount). Plus, the very
nature of the Attack Run system requires you to keep moving after you
shoot, which is a wise tactic in the first place. The exceptions to
this system are craft with Vertical Take-Off and Landing (VTOL)
capability, which allows them to loiter over the battlefield. You
should only use this ability when it will get you closer to winning
the mission or when you can mow down Troops with insufficient Armor
Penetration weapons. Otherwise, VTOL can turn your precious Flyer into
a listless, floating bulls eye.

Stay out of Reach

Though Flyers can cruise over any intervening forces or terrain
features, that doesn't mean you should just draw a bee-line from the
table edge to your target. During the Attack Run, you can pivot the
Flyer up to 45 degrees after its initial move onto the board. That
means you can move along an unoccupied flank and turn to make your
attack, or turn after your attack. Also don't forget that the shooters
have to add 12" to their range measurements to account for your
Flyer's height above the field. Combine this extra distance with your
pivot ability to stay as far out of the enemy's range for as much of
your Attack Run as you can.

Know Your Weapons

The armaments available to Flyers share some similarities with regular
40K vehicles. However, they have access to aircraft-only weapons that
have unique profiles that can make them well worth their points cost.
For example, the Rocket weapon profile has unlimited range, S8, AP3,
Heavy 1 and costs 10 points - that's essentially a Hunter-Killer
Missile for 5-fewer points! Plus, the Bomb, Heavy Bomb, and Smart Bomb
are all great for taking out any infantry squads that are foolish
enough to stay bunched together. That's not even mentioning the
mounted weapons and non-Human armaments. In short, you have many
instruments of destruction available to you with your Flyers - use
them well.

The Dice Giveth...

Unfortunately, you don't really have any control over when your Flyers
appear - they are subject to the Reserves rules (though some armies
have special rules that allow them to roll for Reserves in the 1st
turn, which includes Flyers). If the dice turn against you, your
Flyers can sit out the entire game. However, once they appear, you can
make Second Strikes on a 2+ in subsequent turns.

Air-to-Ground Tactics

Based on the current rules, Flyers excel at air-to-ground strikes more
than anything else. Their speed allows them to attack any target on
the board in relative safety, and their weapons mean they have a good
chance of severely damaging their target.

Bombing Run

One of the best advantages of Flyers is that they can strike anywhere
- you cannot hide from their wrath on the battlefield. Does your
opponent have a squad of sharpshooters that are out of your infantry's
range? Call in the Flyers. Does your opponent have a Basilisk hiding
behind a hill as it pummels your forces with indirect barrage fire?
Call in the Flyers. You can really ruin your opponent's well-laid
plans when you zip over his lines and destroy a unit that he
considered safe. What's more, a Flyer can fire all of its weapons at
once even while moving - ideal for eliminating high-priority targets.

Combined Arms

Air power alone is impressive, but when you coordinate it with actions
on the ground, it can prove unstoppable. Ever heard of the Blitzkrieg?
Use your Flyers to cut a hole in the enemy line for your assault
Troops or vehicles to charge through. Or, if you're in trouble and
your lines are collapsing, drop a few bombs on the enemy's attacking
column to buy your forces some breathing room. Just make sure you
place your strike with care - it will do you no good to wipe out the
enemy in a location where your ground forces can't take advantage of
it.

Tank Hunters

For some time now, the bane of ground vehicles has been the warplane.
Unless a vehicle has an anti-aircraft mount, there's not a lot it can
do to fight off an attack by air. What's more, there are a lot of mean
things that a pilot can do to vehicles. For example, if your opponent
has arranged his vehicles in a column (usually seen on roadways), all
you have to do is take out the first vehicle to block the column's
movement so you can take the rest out easier. Another similar example:
if there's a terrain bottleneck on the field, take out a vehicle while
it's in the chokepoint, and you've just put a stopper in your
opponent's flow of vehicles.

Catch 'Em Napping

If your opponent is foolish enough to land a Flyer on the field to
pick up passengers when you have a Flyer as well, then it's his loss.
One of the best places to take out a Flyer is before it has left the
ground. They are treated as regular vehicles at that point, and with
no anti-aircraft mounts or heavy armor, they are sitting ducks...
literally.

Air Cav

The final and perhaps riskiest way to use your Flyers is in the Air
Cavalry (Air Cav) role. Employing your Flyers as transports for your
forces can offer you unparalleled mobility: you can drop units behind
enemy lines, move units completely across the table in a turn, and
evacuate units if the mission requires it. Some Flyers, especially
those in Imperial service, can enter VTOL mode to hover and provide
sustained fire support much like the attack helicopters of today.
However, as mentioned earlier, Flyers cannot take much punishment
before they crash and burn.

Air-to-Air Tactics

If you use the optional rules from WD301 for Dogfights and Intercepts,
or from Imperial Armour Update 2004 for Fighter-Intercepts, then there
are a few tactics to consider before you get into a dogfight.

Combat Air Patrol

One of other main duties of aircraft is to protect ground forces from
other aircraft. Under the WD301 Intercept and IAU2004 Fighter-
Intercepts rules, instead of starting your Attack Run against ground
targets, you can have your Flyer wait for enemy Flyers to enter the
board and then jump them. This way, you provide air cover for your
groundpounders by forcing your foe to redirect his Flyer attacks
against your Flyers.

Air Combat Maneuvers

The IAU2004 Fighter-Intercepts rule indicates that if the two Flyers
enter from the same board edge, then the interceptor is assumed to be
on the other Flyer's tail. The rules in WD301 don't negate this
concept, so you can do this maneuver under those rules. Again, don't
forget your 45-degree pivot before or after your Attacks. One of the
unique things about Flyers is that you can deploy them from any board
edge, and you should take advantage of this ability when dogfighting.
You can place your interceptor on a board edge that you think your
opponent will find tempting for Attack Run purposes. You've forced him
to choose between protecting his Flyer from certain doom and making an
Attack Run on that juicy ground target in your lines.

Anti-Aircraft Mounts

Somewhat surprisingly, vehicles with anti-aircraft mounts will have a
statistically better chance of hitting Flyers than just interceptors
will. The only real advantage that interceptors have beyond
maneuvering is the removal of the 12" normally added to range
calculations for height. Interceptors still need 6's to hit, and they
will only cause glancing hits if they manage to hit. Therefore, if you
have a vehicle with an anti-aircraft mount and a Flyer in your force,
you might want to forget about dogfighting for now and let the vehicle
clean the skies.


Flyer optional rules from Imperial Armour Vol. 2, Appendix II:

VTOL HOVER MODE

Some Flyers (such as the Valkyrie and Vulture) are able to hover in
place, remaining over the battlefield rather than flying off after an
Attack Run.

When the Flyer halts, it may declare it is entering VTOL hover mode.
Resolve the enemy Shooting Phase as normal, but the hovering Flyer is
hit using the firer's normal BS. The hovering Flyer may then fire as a
normal Flyer, or disembark passengers. Rather than leave the table as
per the normal Flyer rules, it remains on the table. They Flyer uses
its vectored engines to hover above the ground. It remains stationary
but can turn in any direction to bring its weapons to bear. While
hovering, a Flyer may fire all its weapons.

For the purposes of being fired at, treat the hovering Flyer as a
moving Skimmer while in hover mode. It can be targeted with the
firer's normal BS, but still add 12" to the range. All hits are
treated as glancing hits. If the hovering Flyer is Immobilized, then
it is destroyed. While hovering, it cannot be attacked in close combat
(it is too high off the ground), unless the attacker can fly or has
jump packs, in which case [the Flyer] can be assaulted as if it is a
moving vehicle.

At the end of its own turn, the hovering Flyer may disengage VTOL
hover mode, use its main thrusters and fly off. It now reverts to
being a [normal] Flyer. It will return in the enemy turn on a 2+ as
per the normal Flyer rules. It cannot return in the enemy turn
immediately after it leaves the table, but must miss that turn as it
flies away to gain height and speed for its Attack Run.

Example

A Valkyrie transporting a Storm Trooper Squad arrives from the
Reserves. It is placed on the edge of the board until the enemy's
turn. After the enemy Movement Phase, the Valkyrie moves to the point
it wishes to drop its troops off and declares it is activating VTOL
hover mode. In the enemy Shooting Phase, they can target the Valkyrie,
using there normal BS, adding 12" to the range and only scoring
glancing hits. After the shooting, but before the Assault Phase, the
Valkyrie deploys its troops, who are placed within 2" of the access
points. The Valkyrie then remains on the board, and can fire in its
own Shooting Phase before deactivating VTOL mode and leaving the board
at the end of its turn. The Storm Troopers can move normally in their
turn.

DOGFIGHT

The players place their aircraft on the table for an Attack Run per
the rules for Flyers in Imperial Armor [Vol. 2]. When there is another
Flyer on the table on a turn when a player makes an Attack Run with
his aircraft, he may opt to Dogfight rather than bomb the troops on
the ground.

To initiate a Dogfight, the player nominates which Flyer he is
attacking, moves his aircraft as he would normally, and directs his
Attacks at his opponent's aircraft. The player must roll a 6 to hit as
with all Flyers, though he does not have to add 12" to the range as he
would were he attacking from the ground.

Dogfighting is a risky business. To represent the danger, the other
aircraft may opt to fire back. In a Dogfight, all attacks are resolved
simultaneously, because the two aircraft strafe each other as they fly
by. However, if a player decides to defend himself in this manner,
then he may not make an Attack Run in his own turn. Instead, he moves
his aircraft off the table once his own turn is done.

INTERCEPT

If a player has two or more aircraft on the table at once and one is
attacked in a Dogfight, then he may opt to intercept with another
Flyer. This interceptor must not have been nominated for Dogfighting
by the enemy. On the roll of 4+, the Dogfight is resolved with the
intercepting craft. Landed Flyers and Flyers hovering in VTOL mode are
attacked as normal. As the planes are flying past each other at
enormous speeds, any hits inflicted on them during a Dogfight are
glancing hits.


Playa
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Doctor Rock

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Since: Dec 30, 2004
Posts: 372



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:11 pm
Post subject: Re: [40k] VDR for a chaos Hind vtol [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

<cheezhankrn.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:aceecba6-4a3c-41ff-b462-cac8a6c9e676@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> I recently found the box of my old airplane models and decided to
> convert a 1/32 mil24 Hind to chaos.

pics!

> What are the present legal VDR rules? Is the ones in apoc the same as
> the old ones?

there ain't none in apocalypse, so knock yourself out.

> Any suggestions for armaments etc while I'm still in early stages?

if it was me, i'd put a multimelta and/or heavy flamer in the nose at least,
to evoke the whole fire-breathing monster thing. stacks of autocannons
and/or rockets on the wings.
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Spack

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Since: Jan 17, 2005
Posts: 355



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:26 pm
Post subject: Re: [40k] VDR for a chaos Hind vtol [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

<cheezhankrn.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:aceecba6-4a3c-41ff-b462-cac8a6c9e676@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> What are the present legal VDR rules? Is the ones in apoc the same as
> the old ones?

As Doctor Rock points out, there are none in Apocalypse. It just suggests
you come up with a sensible set of options and stats. You might as well use
the existing CA VDR, at least it gives some guidelines and if your opponent
is going to let you use it, that's as good as start as any.

> I'm not too concerned about the rules, this model is more for display
> and just the fun of creation. But I do want whatever I make able to be
> used legally and sensibly if I do play some Apoc.

Why not use the rules for the Aquila Lander (given your 6 passenger
capacity), or a Valkyrie (has a capacity for carrying 10 but has more weapon
options).

--
Dan
http://www.ageofstrife.com
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Spack

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Since: Jan 17, 2005
Posts: 355



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:30 pm
Post subject: Re: VDR for a chaos Hind vtol [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Playa" <hurlgen40k.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2e374fdb-fe2f-4ef0-ac92-f2171ab01635@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Hey,
>
> On Dec 7, 10:07 pm, cheezhan....DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> What are the present legal VDR rules?
>
> Rules for Flyers:
>
> http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/gaming/flyers/download.htm?/gam...40k/gam
>

Those aren't much use without the rest of the VDR - they're only of limited
use in 40k if someone happens to have an existing VDR datasheet and just
needs to know how the flyer movement and shooting works. They are an
appendix to the VDR, not a ruleset in their own right.

In Apocalypse which the OP asked about they're useless anyway - Apocalypse
has it's own flyer rules.

--
Dan
http://www.ageofstrife.com
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Spack

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Since: Jan 17, 2005
Posts: 355



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:49 pm
Post subject: Re: VDR for a chaos Hind vtol [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Playa" <hurlgen40k RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:4982728e-478b-408e-baba-c72c67ade84e@b1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>
> Hey,
>
> On Dec 8, 9:30 am, "Spack" <n... RemoveThis @worldofspack.co.uk> wrote:
>> Those aren't much use without the rest of the VDR -
>
> With respect, "Use the Aquila rules" is of limited use, too.

True, but if the OP is playing Apocalypse chances are good that someone
might have access to the FW rules. Also the FW rules are still in print and
easy to obtain, the CA2004 ones are no longer in print and obtaining a
printed copy is not particularly easy.

> ttp://www.warbozz.dk/warhr40k/VDR_Help.html

That appears to be incomplete - it's doesn't contain any of the tables which
are required to work out the costs of the options and weapons. Do you have a
link for the tables too?

>> In Apocalypse which the OP asked about they're useless anyway -
>> Apocalypse
>> has it's own flyer rules.
>
> Yes, rules with which all 40kA players will already be familiar -
> You can't play Apocalypse without having the rule book, right?

Of course you can - not everyone who plays has their own rulebook, some of
them rely on using one at a club, or a store. Not everybody knows the rules
back to front off by heart, which is why I pointed out that the flyer rules
are in the Apoc rulebook - the OP might not have spotted that yet.

--
Dan
http://www.ageofstrife.com
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Playa

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Since: May 24, 2007
Posts: 70



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:43 am
Post subject: Re: VDR for a chaos Hind vtol [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Hey,

On Dec 8, 12:49 pm, "Spack" <n....RemoveThis@worldofspack.co.uk> wrote:
> That appears to be incomplete

The text I posted is my current (v4) Flyer sheet -
That's everything officially supported by GW, afaik.
Any "presently legal VDR rules" are in there.

> not everyone who plays has their own rulebook

Your point is moot as long as there *is* a book used for playing.
Certainly, there's no hurry to cost a model still on the bench.
VDR is consent-only, so the tables are of limited use today.

FWIW, here's my old Dropship sheet:

+++

Dropship Type 1
(The "Ida May" from the _Aliens_ movie.)

Crew: BS3
Armor: 11/11/10
Type: Flyer
Size: Normal
Speed: Fast

Weapons:
1 x Chin Heavy Bolter
2 x Wing Whirlwind Pod
2 x Dorsal H-K Missile

Special Options:
Transport 10
Orbital Lander
VTOL

Vehicle Category:
Heavy Support

Cost: 206pt

+++


Playa
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Borscope

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Since: May 12, 2007
Posts: 42



(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:09 am
Post subject: Re: VDR for a chaos Hind vtol [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Dec 7, 10:07 pm, cheezhan... RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
> I recently found the box of my old airplane models and decided to
> convert a 1/32 mil24 Hind to chaos.
> I chopped off the blades (I hate helicopters, flimsy things), replaced
> the stub wings with bigger wings from a 1/72 bomber. The engines are
> getting greenstuffed look like a flamers fungus feet with an osprey
> like VTOL configuration.
> Weapons are the chin turret. Which looks tiny compared to a 40k
> weapon. So i might replace.
> It can transport I guess 6 guys.
> and whatever I hang off the wings. It had 4 bombs but I think I'll
> replace them with missiles or rocket multi pods.
>
> What are the present legal VDR rules? Is the ones in apoc the same as
> the old ones?
> I'm not too concerned about the rules, this model is more for display
> and just the fun of creation. But I do want whatever I make able to be
> used legally and sensibly if I do play some Apoc.
>
> Any suggestions for armaments etc while I'm still in early stages?
> I'll post pics if anyone cares and everyone hasn't just killfiled
> google posts. Smile

Let's see some pics!
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cheezhankrn

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Since: Dec 07, 2007
Posts: 14



(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:04 pm
Post subject: Re: VDR for a chaos Hind vtol [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Dec 10, 4:09 am, Borscope <donovan_bor....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Dec 7, 10:07 pm, cheezhan....TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > I recently found the box of my old airplane models and decided to
> > convert a 1/32 mil24 Hind to chaos.
> > I chopped off the blades (I hate helicopters, flimsy things), replaced
> > the stub wings with bigger wings from a 1/72 bomber. The engines are
> > getting greenstuffed look like a flamers fungus feet with an osprey
> > like VTOL configuration.
> > Weapons are the chin turret. Which looks tiny compared to a 40k
> > weapon. So i might replace.
> > It can transport I guess 6 guys.
> > and whatever I hang off the wings. It had 4 bombs but I think I'll
> > replace them with missiles or rocket multi pods.
>
> > What are the present legal VDR rules? Is the ones in apoc the same as
> > the old ones?
> > I'm not too concerned about the rules, this model is more for display
> > and just the fun of creation. But I do want whatever I make able to be
> > used legally and sensibly if I do play some Apoc.
>
> > Any suggestions for armaments etc while I'm still in early stages?
> > I'll post pics if anyone cares and everyone hasn't just killfiled
> > google posts. Smile
>
> Let's see some pics!

For some reason my SD card card reader doesn't like ubuntu 7.10, it
was fine with 6.
So I'll have to figure that out or use another partition or machine to
upload them.
Right now it looks like a hind with stubby wings. I havn't really
started on the daemonic bits, just reinforcement and repairs.
But I have found a grey knight termy flamer in my bits box that I'll
replace the chin mount chaingun with.
Or maybe I should give it MultiMelta for assassinating indirect
artillery, but the GK heavy flamer does look nice.

Thanks to all for the VDR notes albeit I'm still not sure if Apoc has
VDR rules in there. Some posts say yes, others no.
I have yet to play Apoc or even see the book but expect someday I
will. 40k is purely about converting for me right now (mostly
vehicles). But I've got enough VDR rules now that even if the points
etc are a bit off for whatever the current rules are I'll have an idea
what this things rules will be.
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Blackheart

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Since: Apr 19, 2007
Posts: 153



(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:42 am
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On Dec 10, 1:04 am, cheezhan... DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks to all for the VDR notes albeit I'm still not sure if Apoc has
> VDR rules in there. Some posts say yes, others no.

there are no VDR in Apoc. anyone that says otherwise is retarded.
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Spack

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Since: Jan 17, 2005
Posts: 355



(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:14 pm
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<cheezhankrn.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:34166b41-6153-4a9e-8255-735491478162@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks to all for the VDR notes albeit I'm still not sure if Apoc has
> VDR rules in there. Some posts say yes, others no.

Which posts said yes? I don't see any.

--
Dan
http://www.ageofstrife.com
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cheezhankrn

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Since: Dec 07, 2007
Posts: 14



(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:58 pm
Post subject: Re: VDR for a chaos Hind vtol [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Dec 11, 5:14 am, "Spack" <n....RemoveThis@worldofspack.co.uk> wrote:
> <cheezhan....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:34166b41-6153-4a9e-8255-735491478162@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Thanks to all for the VDR notes albeit I'm still not sure if Apoc has
> > VDR rules in there. Some posts say yes, others no.
>
> Which posts said yes? I don't see any.
>

-- paste --
> You can't play Apocalypse without having the rule book, right?

Of course you can - not everyone who plays has their own rulebook,
some of
them rely on using one at a club, or a store. Not everybody knows the
rules
back to front off by heart, which is why I pointed out that the flyer
rules
are in the Apoc rulebook - the OP might not have spotted that yet.
-- end paste --

but i see that was just the apoc variant flier rules.
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Playa

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Since: May 24, 2007
Posts: 70



(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:31 am
Post subject: Re: VDR for a chaos Hind vtol [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Hey,

On Dec 11, 3:42 am, "Spack" <n....RemoveThis@worldofspack.co.uk> wrote:
> those flyer rules are only as official as the Chapter Approved
> article they were taken from, which is the full VDR

Well, that's as 'official' as VDR get, right? GW's house rules?

> they can't be used in most events, and you need to clear it with your
> opponent first, so they're no more officially supported than the rest

But, that's all that is 'presently legal' to the best of my
knowledge.
GW's failure to include the old tables could mean anything.

> without the tables how do you cost up a model?

Most 40kA players seem to use the Studio's method - WAG.

> Those tables have the
> points costs for all the options and weapons

They -had- the costs for the -then available- options and weapons.
As v4 costing schemes have changed, they're of even less use.
Don't get me started on the old Chaos options . . .

> Without them you have to just pull figures out of thin air.

Though I personally dislike the prospect, that seems to be the favored
approach.

> most players who will allow custom datasheets are probably going to
> prefer one costed using the VDR rather than just something completely made
> up and undercosted

Well, I agree in principle - that's what I would have thought, too.
But, I've seen discussions shut down for daring to suggest it.

FWIW, I have a txt version of the Dec 2000 VDR somewhere.
I think it (JJ's 'Souped Up') is the latest-and-greatest VDR rev.
It's certainly got some ASCII costing tables in there . . .

I'll see if I can find it, and post it in a new thread for comment.


Pla - so many archives, so little time - ya
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Spack

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Since: Jan 17, 2005
Posts: 355



(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:42 am
Post subject: Re: VDR for a chaos Hind vtol [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Playa" <hurlgen40k RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:51c8b2e4-592e-4255-b60c-3f01091f483d@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Hey,
>
> On Dec 8, 12:49 pm, "Spack" <n... RemoveThis @worldofspack.co.uk> wrote:
>> That appears to be incomplete
>
> The text I posted is my current (v4) Flyer sheet -
> That's everything officially supported by GW, afaik.
> Any "presently legal VDR rules" are in there.

If you read the intro at
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/gaming/flyers/default.htm then you'll
see that those flyer rules are only as official as the Chapter Approved
article they were taken from, which is the full VDR. It even says there that
they can't be used in most events, and you need to clear it with your
opponent first, so they're no more officially supported than the rest of the
VDR.

>> not everyone who plays has their own rulebook
>
> Your point is moot as long as there *is* a book used for playing.
> Certainly, there's no hurry to cost a model still on the bench.
> VDR is consent-only, so the tables are of limited use today.

But without the tables how do you cost up a model? Those tables have the
points costs for all the options and weapons. Without them you have to just
pull figures out of thin air. At least the VDR provide a rough guideline,
and most players who will allow custom datasheets are probably going to
prefer one costed using the VDR rather than just something completely made
up and undercosted.

--
Dan
http://www.ageofstrife.com
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