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Since: Aug 07, 2006 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:27 am
Post subject: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) Archived from groups: alt>games>warcraft (more info?)
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Ok, reality check.
This morning I get on with my 39.9 hunter and my wife shows up with her
42 warlock to help me to a quest or two to hit 40. Said hi to the only
person on in the guild I joined last night, we talked, she said she'd
be glad to join. About a 34 Priest, if memory serves me well. We met
up and started killing miners and getting crystals on the side of a
hill in goofy terrain. A Druid shows up and starts doing the same quest
a the same time, so it gets a little confusing as to which hit is
which, etc.
Suddenly, the priest starts asking questions of the Warlock (who
happens to be played by none other than my wife) about why this minion
and not that, etc. Then, slowly, a she dosn't stop I realize she's
starting to tell my wife how to play the thing -- where's your imp, why
not a VW cause it's better, etc. etc. etc. etc. My wife, angel that she
is, ignores it, but is upset to have somebody out of the blue start
offering to play her character for her.
I get the last crystal, the lock and the priest both died, my wife
logged out because she had to go get a daughter registered in school.
Now, I voiced disapproval of somebody spewing out constant advice
without being asked, got some answer back, and promptly /ignored the
person. In comes another wsp from her husband saying I had put the
guild head honcho on ignore. I said I didn't care WHO it was, if a
level 60 in Epic showed up and started pontificating about how a
certain character SHOULD be playing his character, they're out of
there. I promptly quit the guild.
This guy and I talked, and thought we had it more or less settled, he
told me how difficult his wife can be, but then he flared up at me
again, so I just signed off and went to work.
Now, as the "group leader" or as the "husband" or as a "concerned
co-player", am I wrong? I hunt up level 60s, let's say, and ask
permission to ask them questions about their builds, pets, etc, and
usually find some insanely nice people. I wouldn't ever personally
think of suddenly setting up a class on playing a party member's
character by remote control or constant, unending suggestions.
Anyway, I'm still bewildered and, frankly, pissed. My wife? She's in
line over at the school.
Best, >> Stay informed about: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) |
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Since: Dec 15, 2005 Posts: 221
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:59 am
Post subject: Re: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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You'll run into these types of people from time to time. At lvl 60,
it's especially annoying to have people telling you what you should
have put your talent points into (yes I'm a frost mage and don't have
Improved Blizzard. Sue me.).
Luckily my guild generally is pretty good about this and the only
complaints I've gotten have been from people in PUG's (which is why I
very, very rarely do PUG's anymore).
BTW, why not post the guild name and server? It would help others get
a better picture of the guilds in general. No sense making somebody
else find out about their attitude on their own.
Mike
BRob239.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> Ok, reality check.
>
> This morning I get on with my 39.9 hunter and my wife shows up with her
> 42 warlock to help me to a quest or two to hit 40. Said hi to the only
> person on in the guild I joined last night, we talked, she said she'd
> be glad to join. About a 34 Priest, if memory serves me well. We met
> up and started killing miners and getting crystals on the side of a
> hill in goofy terrain. A Druid shows up and starts doing the same quest
> a the same time, so it gets a little confusing as to which hit is
> which, etc.
>
> Suddenly, the priest starts asking questions of the Warlock (who
> happens to be played by none other than my wife) about why this minion
> and not that, etc. Then, slowly, a she dosn't stop I realize she's
> starting to tell my wife how to play the thing -- where's your imp, why
> not a VW cause it's better, etc. etc. etc. etc. My wife, angel that she
> is, ignores it, but is upset to have somebody out of the blue start
> offering to play her character for her.
>
> I get the last crystal, the lock and the priest both died, my wife
> logged out because she had to go get a daughter registered in school.
> Now, I voiced disapproval of somebody spewing out constant advice
> without being asked, got some answer back, and promptly /ignored the
> person. In comes another wsp from her husband saying I had put the
> guild head honcho on ignore. I said I didn't care WHO it was, if a
> level 60 in Epic showed up and started pontificating about how a
> certain character SHOULD be playing his character, they're out of
> there. I promptly quit the guild.
>
> This guy and I talked, and thought we had it more or less settled, he
> told me how difficult his wife can be, but then he flared up at me
> again, so I just signed off and went to work.
>
> Now, as the "group leader" or as the "husband" or as a "concerned
> co-player", am I wrong? I hunt up level 60s, let's say, and ask
> permission to ask them questions about their builds, pets, etc, and
> usually find some insanely nice people. I wouldn't ever personally
> think of suddenly setting up a class on playing a party member's
> character by remote control or constant, unending suggestions.
>
> Anyway, I'm still bewildered and, frankly, pissed. My wife? She's in
> line over at the school.
>
> Best, >> Stay informed about: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) |
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Caeryn Dryad of Whisperwi
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Since: Sep 09, 2005 Posts: 762
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I think a lot of people can afford to play better. In a long run
knowing what to do can be a bit more rewarding. But this is about
pontification so here's my take.
As long as you're playing solo I don't care how often you die or how
you play or how efficient you are at farming.
But, if we're guildies and you're in a group or a raid with me and your
mistakes are causing me to die then I will be start giving you advice.
I usually won't press the matter but if this keeps up I will just move
on. But if we're on a raid MC + and you're playing playing badly and I
advice you but it is ignored then the gloves come off.
Its basically how much of the group game you impact I think.
Besides, people are way too hung up on positive criticism wrapped in
flowers and candies >> Stay informed about: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) |
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Since: May 03, 2005 Posts: 443
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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BRob239 RemoveThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> Ok, reality check.
> ...
> Now, as the "group leader" or as the "husband" or as a "concerned
> co-player", am I wrong? I hunt up level 60s, let's say, and ask
> permission to ask them questions about their builds, pets, etc, and
> usually find some insanely nice people. I wouldn't ever personally
> think of suddenly setting up a class on playing a party member's
> character by remote control or constant, unending suggestions.
>
> Anyway, I'm still bewildered and, frankly, pissed. My wife? She's in
> line over at the school.
I don't think there is really a "wrong" or "right". As a MMO game,
there is both the upside and downside of having to deal with other
people. And keep in mind that some of these other people are pretty
young too.
Anyway, you were upset by the other players behavior and you did what
you thought was necessary. I can't find fault in that.
If it were me, I'd have just made up an excuse to disband the group...
gone and got a snack... then resumed playing as a Duo. Or if it was
clear this other player was going to be in the area, just mention that
you're a real life couple and just want to play together for a while
(no one wants to be a 3rd wheel).
I probably wouldn't have ever gotten into an argument over it. Nor
would I have looked at it as defending my wife's honor. She's capable
of fighting her own battles, and speaks her mind just fine when someone
pisses her off. >> Stay informed about: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) |
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Since: Jun 09, 2006 Posts: 164
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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jes.t.er DeleteThis @hexduxhmp.org wrote:
> That annoys me. Warlocks and such who bitch about priests taking
> "warlock gear" can talk to my middle finger. Actually, unless an
> item is specifically lableled as being for a particular class I get
> mad when people have very rigid rules about what classes can/should
> roll on a particular item ... who knows, maybe somoene is actually
> trying to break out of the cookie cutter molds.
Well there wasn't a warlock in our group anyhow. I was the only person
who could use +shadow, and lucky for me these +shadow shoulder pads
replaced my grey ones nicely. Incase anyone hasn't realized, a shadow
priest can heal any 5-man instance with ease. A feral druid can also. A
retro pally(I know from experience) can also heal any 5-man instance,
and I'm sure a shammy could too. These healers just have to try a bit
more because they aren't as effective as their holy/resto counterparts.
My retro pally healed(using blessing of light on the tank, blessing of
salvation on all others) so far up to ST. The last scholo run I had,
our only healer was a pally. We did fine. A shadow priest can heal a
whole hell of a lot better then retro pally.
I guess people get confused with running something simple like SM or ZF
with end game raids where bosses require perfect planning and the
healer has to heal before the tank even needs it. Oh well..... >> Stay informed about: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) |
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Since: Apr 26, 2006 Posts: 57
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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jes.t.er.DeleteThis@hexduxhmp.org wrote:
> Caeryn Dryad of Whisperwind <tierrie.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> > But, if we're guildies and you're in a group or a raid with me and your
> > mistakes are causing me to die then I will be start giving you advice.
>
> What if 'their mistakes' are simply them not wanting to conform to
> all the standardized cookie cutter-ness that's out there?
>
> Not saying one has to group with them, but my beef is typically with
> the 'learn your role!' and 'learn how to play your class!' people.
I think I'd have to lay the blame down on the guild in the OPs case. It
seems clear the OP walked away feeing they were being lectured for
their 'mistakes'. It's a guild's job, IMO, to train (to fight
cohesively, not to play their class correctly) and further their
members. But when members walk away feeling Blamed for something, the
leaders have failed in their job on two levels. One, people are not
inspired by criticism. If morale is low, it will affect performance.
Two, this Is a game. If you're upsetting people, you're ruining time
they've paid for and set aside in their real lives to enjoy themselves.
When I'm leading a team, I won't hesitate to speak with members if
things are going badly. Perhaps the lock has an odd pick for a demon
that keeps getting killed, maybe the warrior just got a new rifle and
keeps Barny Fife'ing, preempting the hunter pulling, marked mobs keep
getting sheeped in mid attack... Whatever the case, as a guild, we
strive to perform as a Group. To build a synergy, it requires learning
to mesh our talents together. That sometimes requires we learn to do
things differently to compliment one anothers' strengths and
weaknesses. But the words "you're doing it wrong" are never spoken.
Clearly, if they do things a certain way, they've met with success in
the past. It's not for me to second guess how best they should play
their class.
I've always found the best way to approach team members is to explain
things from the team's perspective. Yes, a big blue demon is
outstanding at tanking, but we as a group might be being eaten alive by
caster mobs and the lock could save our skins if they'd be willing to
whip out a fel for us. In lieue of telling someone they're doing
something wrong, it is just as easy and considerably more polite to
point out their particular talents they have that would help their
team.
And I'm sincere in that. It's not a word trick to get someone to
cooperate. Some things only a particular class can provide. And if it
is only explained to people corteously, it is usually more than enough
incentive for everyone to get on the same page. And unless you're
currently under attack, ASK someone if they mind doing something a
particular way. And explain why. Have a dialogue for God's sake instead
of assuming you know how to do things better. It's just as easy to say,
"Hey, if you were to switch to a fel, ya think it could keep those
casters from having our lunch? We're having some serious trouble
surviving them."
If it continues to cause issues and I cannot convince someone to try
something more suitable for the group, I just let it be. Sometimes
groups just don't mesh. If it causing trouble, I just won't work with
them in the future if they're inflexible. I'm not going to demand they
play a certain way, but if it is detrimental to the group, I Will make
sure they don't do it next to me in the future.
~Shayylynn
NE Hunter of Alexstrazsa >> Stay informed about: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) |
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Since: Jun 09, 2005 Posts: 311
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> not a VW cause it's better, etc. etc. etc. etc. My wife, angel that she
> is, ignores it, but is upset to have somebody out of the blue start
> offering to play her character for her.
There is your problem. You wife should have just told the other person
to chill.
I get this sometimes but mostly with my priest - HEAL NOW! Throw
SHIELD! , etc.
I tell them to chill. If they continue, I leave but most people stop
once you tell them to.
Some people think they are being "helpful" and don't realize they are
being asses.
Now if we wipe or I let them die then they can tell me what to do... >> Stay informed about: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) |
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Since: Aug 02, 2005 Posts: 2350
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Aug 02, 2005 Posts: 2350
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:11 pm
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Since: Aug 02, 2005 Posts: 2350
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:49 pm
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Since: Aug 02, 2005 Posts: 2350
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:52 pm
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Since: Aug 02, 2005 Posts: 2350
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:01 pm
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Caeryn Dryad of Whisperwi
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Since: Sep 09, 2005 Posts: 762
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Giving people advice.
This is a bit of a tangent but sort of on topic.
I mentioned earlier that if they are in a raid and their performance is
causing me to die or their lack of performance is causing the raid to
fail, then I will speak up.
I am an officer in my guild and I've gotten in a few mess because I
have told certain people that they are underperforming and so forth.
Its not even as wildly tangential as a Warlock wanting to Melee, its
more Paladins wanting to DPS and Druids wanting to go Bear or Owl. And
I admit they are all viable under certain circumstances, stuns from
Paladins are great. Bear and Owl are also awesome for support roles.
But by and large I have often come at odds with some people who want a
more laid back approach.
I am not trying to say I'm right and they are wrong, but I feel that in
certain situation, especially when you are part of a team you are
expected to pull your own weight. Granted, a 5 foot person can be a
linesman but I much much prefer my linesman to be 6 foot + and 300+
lbs. Do what your class is best at, kinda deal.
So in the OT, I would have been the jackass
But I see both sides of the situation, and if the druids wanted to go
bear in UBRS that's fine, but I will not be there with them >> Stay informed about: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) |
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Since: May 04, 2005 Posts: 670
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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pauls2272.DeleteThis@yahoo.com ytrede sig i
<1154986445.120313.195210.DeleteThis@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> med dette:
>> not a VW cause it's better, etc. etc. etc. etc. My wife, angel that she
>> is, ignores it, but is upset to have somebody out of the blue start
>> offering to play her character for her.
>
>There is your problem. You wife should have just told the other person
>to chill.
>
>I get this sometimes but mostly with my priest - HEAL NOW! Throw
>SHIELD! , etc.
>I tell them to chill. If they continue, I leave but most people stop
>once you tell them to.
>Some people think they are being "helpful" and don't realize they are
>being asses.
>
>Now if we wipe or I let them die then they can tell me what to do...
I did it in a little more fun way at a co-guild raid. The raid leader
kept telling us who to heal, and I know most healers get offended by
that after a while, so I just said that it amused me being told that
someone needed healing, especially since he would have died several
times, if I ever waited to start healing him till after I was told.
Most healers laughed, and the raidleader got the point.
--
Allan Stig Kiilerich Frederiksen
"When you try to change a mans paradigm, you must keep in mind that he
can hear you only through the filter of the paradigm he holds."
-Myron Tribus >> Stay informed about: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) |
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Since: Jul 30, 2006 Posts: 399
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 7 Aug 2006 14:34:05 -0700, pauls2272 DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
>> not a VW cause it's better, etc. etc. etc. etc. My wife, angel that she
>> is, ignores it, but is upset to have somebody out of the blue start
>> offering to play her character for her.
>
>There is your problem. You wife should have just told the other person
>to chill.
>
>I get this sometimes but mostly with my priest - HEAL NOW! Throw
>SHIELD! , etc.
>I tell them to chill. If they continue, I leave but most people stop
>once you tell them to.
>Some people think they are being "helpful" and don't realize they are
>being asses.
>
>Now if we wipe or I let them die then they can tell me what to do...
i like the sound of "let them die"... quite fitting for a shadow
priest, mwahahahaha!
seriously though, i was in MC tonight with 2 people from my guild who
have done the dirty on me but something inside me just would not let
me NOT heal them, even though i think they thoroughly deserve it >> Stay informed about: Welcome vs. Unwelcome Advice (?) |
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