Ultra Pin - What it needs to be successful (in my opinion)

> Having said that, my person belief is that an UltraPin for the home
> market needs to be priced no higher than about $4500 with the condition
> that TONS of more games than the original set can be easily downloaded
> at a reasonable price. $4500 may sound steep, but if you can play
> everything from wedgeheads to DMDs and they well done, it starts to
> make alot more sense, at least to me.

Too bad almost all of the pinmame tables have poor physics. The Visual
Pinball engine just isn't up to par with other video pinball games like
the ProPinball series, or the newer FuturePinball program. The biggest
problem, though, is that "official" product like UltraPin will never be
able to have a wide variety of games due to endless licensing issues,
etc.

Your best bet is to make one up yourself. Get a good PC, an
appropriate-sized LCD monitorb buttons and such, then fab up a cab.
Or, buy an Ultrapin just for the core hardware. Then load it up with
everything you'd ever want to play. You can put ALL the VisualPinmame
tables, all the recreations, all the FuturePinball tables, all the
ProPinball games, and even older stuff like Addiction Pinball, Pinball
Fantasies/Dreams, emulators with Devils' Crush and NES Rollerball...
maybe even copy over the licensed UltraPin stuff if you did buy one for
the hardware. You can often find collections of PC pinball games in
the discount racks at software stores, and all the VPM and FP stuff is
online already.


>
> Anyway, my belief is that although it may take awhile to catch on,
> Ultra Pin has the *potential* to be a real hit if they focus on having
> hundreds of titles available.
 >> Stay informed about: Ultra Pin - What it needs to be successful (in my opinion) 

I have very little information on this, but my understanding is that
the table files had to be reformatted for the Ultra Pin system - not
sure if the engine was tweaked though. Maybe someone from Global VR
can chime in if they read this group.

Dan G. wrote:
> Does UltraPin use an updated version of Visual Pinball or is it exactly the
> same version as the one available on the net?
>
> ___Dan
>
> "cpiel" <cpiel.TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:1161359833.133983.21130@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Because of my business travel, I play vpin almost daily and have for a
> > couple years now. I've been very much looking forward to the release
> > of UltraPin, as the table rendering has now evolved into a stunningly
> > realistic experience from colors and audio to ball physics and
> > lighting. Yes, I have 9 real pinballs and understand that UltraPin is
> > a simulation, but if it's anything like some of the recent vpin tables
> > I've played, it's a killer simulation at that. This holds true for
> > 1960s wedgeheads and 1990s DMDs alike.
> >
> > I realize there are many collectors and players that will not be
> > interested in a simulated pin at any price, but there will be others,
> > like myself, who are space limited and love the idea of adding a dozen
> > or more titles in a space where only one title could reside previoulsy.
> >
> >
> > Having said that, my person belief is that an UltraPin for the home
> > market needs to be priced no higher than about $4500 with the condition
> > that TONS of more games than the original set can be easily downloaded
> > at a reasonable price. $4500 may sound steep, but if you can play
> > everything from wedgeheads to DMDs and they well done, it starts to
> > make alot more sense, at least to me.
> >
> > Anyway, my belief is that although it may take awhile to catch on,
> > Ultra Pin has the *potential* to be a real hit if they focus on having
> > hundreds of titles available.
> >
 >> Stay informed about: Ultra Pin - What it needs to be successful (in my opinion) 

cpiel wrote:
> Anyway, my belief is that although it may take awhile to catch on,
> Ultra Pin has the *potential* to be a real hit if they focus on having
> hundreds of titles available.

My prediction? Complete flop.

Wouldn't sell if it was $500, much less $4,500 or $6,500
 >> Stay informed about: Ultra Pin - What it needs to be successful (in my opinion) 

Dan G. wrote:
> Does UltraPin use an updated version of Visual Pinball or is it exactly the
> same version as the one available on the net?
>
>Dan

Dan, UltraPin uses an updated version of Visual Pinball

UltraPin uses a 'top down' view of its recreated tables
Some Visual Pinball tables are not angle independant, so they cannot
easily be 'squeezed' into UltraPins format, eg any tables by the author
'Scapino' can only be veiwed att he angle that he designed the table
at, other authours use other methods and so their tables can be fitted
to the new format with little or no changes

TheManFromPOST
VPF Admin
 >> Stay informed about: Ultra Pin - What it needs to be successful (in my opinion) 

I wonder if the people that wrote the tables are getting the credit for
it or if they are just taking the tables modifying it and sticking the
UltraPin name on it..

-AF


TMFP wrote:
> Dan G. wrote:
> > Does UltraPin use an updated version of Visual Pinball or is it exactly the
> > same version as the one available on the net?
> >
> >Dan
>
> Dan, UltraPin uses an updated version of Visual Pinball
>
> UltraPin uses a 'top down' view of its recreated tables
> Some Visual Pinball tables are not angle independant, so they cannot
> easily be 'squeezed' into UltraPins format, eg any tables by the author
> 'Scapino' can only be veiwed att he angle that he designed the table
> at, other authours use other methods and so their tables can be fitted
> to the new format with little or no changes
>
> TheManFromPOST
> VPF Admin
 >> Stay informed about: Ultra Pin - What it needs to be successful (in my opinion) 

That's interesting input, but I thought Kurt was one of the lead table
authors for Ultra Pin, no?

TMFP wrote:
> Dan G. wrote:
> > Does UltraPin use an updated version of Visual Pinball or is it exactly the
> > same version as the one available on the net?
> >
> >Dan
>
> Dan, UltraPin uses an updated version of Visual Pinball
>
> UltraPin uses a 'top down' view of its recreated tables
> Some Visual Pinball tables are not angle independant, so they cannot
> easily be 'squeezed' into UltraPins format, eg any tables by the author
> 'Scapino' can only be veiwed att he angle that he designed the table
> at, other authours use other methods and so their tables can be fitted
> to the new format with little or no changes
>
> TheManFromPOST
> VPF Admin
 >> Stay informed about: Ultra Pin - What it needs to be successful (in my opinion) 

I've been wonderting about this myself. I don't believe you can set VP
to run in portrait mode. Plus, you'd have to somehow crop out all the
graphics that are always on either side of the table.

If anyone knows of a version that will allow you to display just the
table itself in a portrait mode I'd love to hear about it. Then if you
could send the DMD and Backbox display to a second monitor would be
even better.

What I'd really like to see is an UltraPin kit. I can supply my own
monitors and cabinet and just buy the software and proprietary hardware
to build my own. Maybe for around $400 or so would be reasonable. If
this setup were available I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately,
I'm sure it will never happen if they can get $6500 just by adding a
cab and a couple monitors.

Oh well, any other ideas?

Cheers,

Brad
cpiel wrote:
> I have very little information on this, but my understanding is that
> the table files had to be reformatted for the Ultra Pin system - not
> sure if the engine was tweaked though. Maybe someone from Global VR
> can chime in if they read this group.
>
> Dan G. wrote:
> > Does UltraPin use an updated version of Visual Pinball or is it exactly the
> > same version as the one available on the net?
> >
> > ___Dan
> >
> > "cpiel" <cpiel DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:1161359833.133983.21130@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > Because of my business travel, I play vpin almost daily and have for a
> > > couple years now. I've been very much looking forward to the release
> > > of UltraPin, as the table rendering has now evolved into a stunningly
> > > realistic experience from colors and audio to ball physics and
> > > lighting. Yes, I have 9 real pinballs and understand that UltraPin is
> > > a simulation, but if it's anything like some of the recent vpin tables
> > > I've played, it's a killer simulation at that. This holds true for
> > > 1960s wedgeheads and 1990s DMDs alike.
> > >
> > > I realize there are many collectors and players that will not be
> > > interested in a simulated pin at any price, but there will be others,
> > > like myself, who are space limited and love the idea of adding a dozen
> > > or more titles in a space where only one title could reside previoulsy.
> > >
> > >
> > > Having said that, my person belief is that an UltraPin for the home
> > > market needs to be priced no higher than about $4500 with the condition
> > > that TONS of more games than the original set can be easily downloaded
> > > at a reasonable price. $4500 may sound steep, but if you can play
> > > everything from wedgeheads to DMDs and they well done, it starts to
> > > make alot more sense, at least to me.
> > >
> > > Anyway, my belief is that although it may take awhile to catch on,
> > > Ultra Pin has the *potential* to be a real hit if they focus on having
> > > hundreds of titles available.
> > >
 >> Stay informed about: Ultra Pin - What it needs to be successful (in my opinion) 

> Who cares? I don't mean to sound crass, but when people do work like that
> and put it out for everyone to use for free, the last thing they care about
> is credit. I'd be honored to find work that I did like that in a

Um, actually, that's usually the single thing they *do* want.. credit
for their work, rather than money, Some do the work just to "do it,"
but most appreciate the credit they get for their work. Don't believe
me, check the archives of vpforum and all the fights over mods and
credits for tables over the years...

> used it illegally, that would be different. But true open source software
> can be used in commercial environments without having to "give credit"
> every time you turn around.

Generally the credit is still there, in the README files, startup
output or copyright notices. If nothing else, it's in the code you
compiled to get the binary. Try distributing someone's sourcecode
after stripping out all the references to the original authors and
you'll piss people off pretty quickly. Sure, there's no "credit" being
displayed as a background daemon does it's thing, but that's not
generally where authors seek credit anyway.
 >> Stay informed about: Ultra Pin - What it needs to be successful (in my opinion) 

I disagree completely. This is likely the future of pinball from an
operator's point of view. Low maintenance being the key - and
selection of tables from a single device - easy swaps/upgrades without
having to move a 250lb boxes around.

I operate a few pins - and they really don't make any money compared to
Jukes and Countertop videos. New full-size video pin may help bring
new players into the fold and help bring revenues back to pinball.

I've played a beta version - game physics and ball reaction is what the
designers are focused on fine-tuning - along with table development,
and they are extremely close to the actual pins. Very fun game to
play, very attractive to ops IMHO.

I personally wouldn't buy one for my home - but I can see how it would
be attractive in certain home-market situations (limited space
situations and multiple pin table selections).

cj



pinballjim wrote:
> cpiel wrote:
> > Anyway, my belief is that although it may take awhile to catch on,
> > Ultra Pin has the *potential* to be a real hit if they focus on having
> > hundreds of titles available.
>
> My prediction? Complete flop.
>
> Wouldn't sell if it was $500, much less $4,500 or $6,500
 >> Stay informed about: Ultra Pin - What it needs to be successful (in my opinion) 

I agree.. these would indeed be good for ops, as video pinball is
already popular (look at all the console video pinball games that keep
coming out). The lack of maintenance and ease of changing games is
also great for operators. The physics and gameplay will almost
certainly be good enough for the average Joe on the street, although I
think most people here (those really into pinball) will dismiss them as
"close but no banana". Ultrapin could help expose more people to
pinball in general and help demand for the real thing.. we'll see.

CJ wrote:
> I disagree completely. This is likely the future of pinball from an
> operator's point of view. Low maintenance being the key - and
> selection of tables from a single device - easy swaps/upgrades without
> having to move a 250lb boxes around.
>
> I operate a few pins - and they really don't make any money compared to
> Jukes and Countertop videos. New full-size video pin may help bring
> new players into the fold and help bring revenues back to pinball.
>
> I've played a beta version - game physics and ball reaction is what the
> designers are focused on fine-tuning - along with table development,
> and they are extremely close to the actual pins. Very fun game to
> play, very attractive to ops IMHO.
>
> I personally wouldn't buy one for my home - but I can see how it would
> be attractive in certain home-market situations (limited space
> situations and multiple pin table selections).
>
> cj
>
>
>
> pinballjim wrote:
> > cpiel wrote:
> > > Anyway, my belief is that although it may take awhile to catch on,
> > > Ultra Pin has the *potential* to be a real hit if they focus on having
> > > hundreds of titles available.
> >
> > My prediction? Complete flop.
> >
> > Wouldn't sell if it was $500, much less $4,500 or $6,500
 >> Stay informed about: Ultra Pin - What it needs to be successful (in my opinion) 

Does UltraPin use an updated version of Visual Pinball or is it exactly the
same version as the one available on the net?

___Dan

"cpiel" <cpiel RemoveThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1161359833.133983.21130@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Because of my business travel, I play vpin almost daily and have for a
> couple years now. I've been very much looking forward to the release
> of UltraPin, as the table rendering has now evolved into a stunningly
> realistic experience from colors and audio to ball physics and
> lighting. Yes, I have 9 real pinballs and understand that UltraPin is
> a simulation, but if it's anything like some of the recent vpin tables
> I've played, it's a killer simulation at that. This holds true for
> 1960s wedgeheads and 1990s DMDs alike.
>
> I realize there are many collectors and players that will not be
> interested in a simulated pin at any price, but there will be others,
> like myself, who are space limited and love the idea of adding a dozen
> or more titles in a space where only one title could reside previoulsy.
>
>
> Having said that, my person belief is that an UltraPin for the home
> market needs to be priced no higher than about $4500 with the condition
> that TONS of more games than the original set can be easily downloaded
> at a reasonable price. $4500 may sound steep, but if you can play
> everything from wedgeheads to DMDs and they well done, it starts to
> make alot more sense, at least to me.
>
> Anyway, my belief is that although it may take awhile to catch on,
> Ultra Pin has the *potential* to be a real hit if they focus on having
> hundreds of titles available.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Ultra Pin - What it needs to be successful (in my opinion) 

It is an improved version of VP. All the info you would ever want and
a lot of junk is here:

http://www.vpforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37470&perpage...&pagenu

I was hot for one until I hear the price and about choked. I would pay
4500 for one, but not 6500.


cpiel wrote:
> Because of my business travel, I play vpin almost daily and have for a
> couple years now. I've been very much looking forward to the release
> of UltraPin, as the table rendering has now evolved into a stunningly
> realistic experience from colors and audio to ball physics and
> lighting. Yes, I have 9 real pinballs and understand that UltraPin is
> a simulation, but if it's anything like some of the recent vpin tables
> I've played, it's a killer simulation at that. This holds true for
> 1960s wedgeheads and 1990s DMDs alike.
>
> I realize there are many collectors and players that will not be
> interested in a simulated pin at any price, but there will be others,
> like myself, who are space limited and love the idea of adding a dozen
> or more titles in a space where only one title could reside previoulsy.
>
>
> Having said that, my person belief is that an UltraPin for the home
> market needs to be priced no higher than about $4500 with the condition
> that TONS of more games than the original set can be easily downloaded
> at a reasonable price. $4500 may sound steep, but if you can play
> everything from wedgeheads to DMDs and they well done, it starts to
> make alot more sense, at least to me.
>
> Anyway, my belief is that although it may take awhile to catch on,
> Ultra Pin has the *potential* to be a real hit if they focus on having
> hundreds of titles available.
 >> Stay informed about: Ultra Pin - What it needs to be successful (in my opinion) 

I can't disagree more.

These simulations don't even come close to the experience of playing a
real pin, whether it be the physics model (which in this case is
rumored to be a tweaked version of VPs) or the visual parts (which are
a very slightly tweaked version of VPs). When that big screen goes out
the operators will have to just wait for a replacement and be
completely down the entire time unlike a real machine were the game can
often be replaced with a much lower dollar part. People who don't like
pins aren't going to be drawn to a simulation of the very thing they
don't like. People who do like pins are mostly going to pass because it
isn't a close enough simulation of the thing they like more. The price
is out of this world compared to many pins or vids.

I like the idea of pinball simulations when the real thing is
unavailable but I frankly can't see any operator motivation to buy
something so highly priced that will take a lot of plays to make it's
money back. This isn't something brand new like DDR, it's a rehash of
an idea that has been tried and tried again (albeit in a somewhat
improved form over the last incarnation seen in an arcade).

Now at a much lower price point than $6500 it might have a chance. But
I would think it would have to fall far below the price of a pinball
machine to have any hope at all.


CJ wrote:
> I disagree completely. This is likely the future of pinball from an
> operator's point of view. Low maintenance being the key - and
> selection of tables from a single device - easy swaps/upgrades without
> having to move a 250lb boxes around.
>
> I operate a few pins - and they really don't make any money compared to
> Jukes and Countertop videos. New full-size video pin may help bring
> new players into the fold and help bring revenues back to pinball.
>
> I've played a beta version - game physics and ball reaction is what the
> designers are focused on fine-tuning - along with table development,
> and they are extremely close to the actual pins. Very fun game to
> play, very attractive to ops IMHO.
>
> I personally wouldn't buy one for my home - but I can see how it would
> be attractive in certain home-market situations (limited space
> situations and multiple pin table selections).
>
> cj
>
>
>
> pinballjim wrote:
> > cpiel wrote:
> > > Anyway, my belief is that although it may take awhile to catch on,
> > > Ultra Pin has the *potential* to be a real hit if they focus on having
> > > hundreds of titles available.
> >
> > My prediction? Complete flop.
> >
> > Wouldn't sell if it was $500, much less $4,500 or $6,500
 >> Stay informed about: Ultra Pin - What it needs to be successful (in my opinion)