Ultimate Tivo Unit - When? Thoughts please.

On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 06:59:57 -0500 "Bill Kearney" <wkearney99.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

BK> "Art" <art.TakeThisOut@myantiqueradio.com> wrote in message
BK> news:rISdnfOUL4rktDTanZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> I do a lot of DVD burning to pass shows on to in-laws who have no cable and
>> to son who can't afford cable.

BK> So you, in essense, steal the programming. I'd imagine that's chief among
BK> the many reasons such a device DOESN'T get shipped.

That's not theft, though it does possibly infringe copyrights. See for example

http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2003/09/20/riaa-collects-f...s-doesn

QUOTE:
The notion of copyright infringement as theft was clearly addressed in
the 1985 Supreme Court decision of Dowling v. United States. While this
case involved hard goods (phonograph records), Justice Harry Blackmun
was most certainly speaking of abstract property (copyrights) when he
wrote these words in his majority decision overturning Dowling's
conviction of interstate transport of stolen property: "(copyright
infringement) does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or
fraud... The infringer invades a statutorily defined province guaranteed
to the copyright holder alone. But he does not assume physical control
over copyright; nor does he wholly deprive its owner of its use."
END QUOTE

Ted
 >> Stay informed about: Ultimate Tivo Unit - When? Thoughts please. 

Art wrote:
> I do a lot of DVD burning to pass shows on to in-laws who have no
> cable and to son who can't afford cable.
>
>

In that case look at the many DVR (Digital Video recorders) that do exactly
that, and do NOT use the tivo software... (search on dvd recorders with hard
disk)

Here's an elcheapo one from walmart
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8054241

or look at these from toshiba (make sure you only look at the ones with hard
disks)
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvr/dvdrecorder.asp

I have one of these
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvr/product.asp?model=rd-xs35 but it's about
$399......
 >> Stay informed about: Ultimate Tivo Unit - When? Thoughts please. 

Ted Zlatanov <tzz.DeleteThis@lifelogs.com> wrote:

> That's not theft, though it does possibly infringe copyrights.

Correct, but not really relevant to Bill's main point that what Art does
-- "sharing" programming without even moving it out of the digital
domain -- is precisely what content providers have been trying to
prevent, or at least retard, for years. They browbeat Replay into
eliminating Internet program sharing and have forced the consumer
electronics industry to accept DRM schemes like encryption for DVDs and
HDCP for HDMI. There's no way they'd sit still if TiVo made it easy for
technically unsophisticated consumers to distribute bit-perfect copies
of recorded programs to anybody with a DVD player.
 >> Stay informed about: Ultimate Tivo Unit - When? Thoughts please. 

On 2008-02-06, Neill Massello <neillmassello.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Ted Zlatanov <tzz.TakeThisOut@lifelogs.com> wrote:
>
>> That's not theft, though it does possibly infringe copyrights.
>
> Correct, but not really relevant to Bill's main point that what Art does
> -- "sharing" programming without even moving it out of the digital
> domain -- is precisely what content providers have been trying to
> prevent, or at least retard, for years. They browbeat Replay into
> eliminating Internet program sharing and have forced the consumer
> electronics industry to accept DRM schemes like encryption for DVDs and
> HDCP for HDMI. There's no way they'd sit still if TiVo made it easy for
> technically unsophisticated consumers to distribute bit-perfect copies
> of recorded programs to anybody with a DVD player.

That's rather silly.

Any PC with an HD tuner can enable "mass pervassive piracy" for
any content that's been shown over an OTA channel. The output from
an ATSC/QAM card is ready made for this sort of thing.

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 >> Stay informed about: Ultimate Tivo Unit - When? Thoughts please. 

"JEDIDIAH" <jedi.DeleteThis@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
news:slrnfqkt5s.ncp.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
> On 2008-02-06, Neill Massello <neillmassello.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Ted Zlatanov <tzz.DeleteThis@lifelogs.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That's not theft, though it does possibly infringe copyrights.
>>
>> Correct, but not really relevant to Bill's main point that what Art does
>> -- "sharing" programming without even moving it out of the digital
>> domain -- is precisely what content providers have been trying to
>> prevent, or at least retard, for years. They browbeat Replay into
>> eliminating Internet program sharing and have forced the consumer
>> electronics industry to accept DRM schemes like encryption for DVDs and
>> HDCP for HDMI. There's no way they'd sit still if TiVo made it easy for
>> technically unsophisticated consumers to distribute bit-perfect copies
>> of recorded programs to anybody with a DVD player.
>
> That's rather silly.
>
> Any PC with an HD tuner can enable "mass pervassive piracy" for
> any content that's been shown over an OTA channel. The output from
> an ATSC/QAM card is ready made for this sort of thing.

I doubt they care very much about what's available via OTA. It's more
likely the ability to make a direct digital transfer of HD content from HBO
and the like.
 >> Stay informed about: Ultimate Tivo Unit - When? Thoughts please. 

Humax still sells their DRT400 and DRT800 models but they're definitely
Series 2 standard definition boxes, however. I bought the 40 hr model a
couple of years ago and immediately upgraded the drive. I occasionaly burn
movies from HBO or other channels that air shows sans commercials. Once in
a great while there'll be a documentary on Discovery that I want to
archive commercial free -- in that case I'll download it to my Mac so I
can edit out the commercials prior to authoring a disc. The occasion is
pretty rare, though, since it's a lot more time investment than just
burning straight from the Humax.

I don't expect to see a unit with a built-in Blu-ray burner until the
price of media and burners comes down significantly. The price of the
newer Series 3 is a step in the right direction, though. Does anyone know
what size hard drive ships stock in these units? The specs say they record
up to 20 hrs. HD and 180 hrs. SD so I'm guessing only a 150-200 GB drive?

-Gary
 >> Stay informed about: Ultimate Tivo Unit - When? Thoughts please. 

JEDIDIAH <jedi.TakeThisOut@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

> That's rather silly.
>
> Any PC with an HD tuner can enable "mass pervassive piracy" for
> any content that's been shown over an OTA channel. The output from
> an ATSC/QAM card is ready made for this sort of thing.

And such a device is being marketed by TiVo or some other consumer
electronics company? If so, please provide a link.

I'm quite aware that it's possible to do what Art is doing, just as it's
possible to "share" TV shows via Usenet and P2P and to duplicate CDs and
DVDs. I'm not aware of anybody marketing an optical disc duplicator to
consumers, but I am aware that Replay was bullied into removing a
similar capability from their products more than four years ago, even
though they had far fewer customers than TiVo. If the IP lobby objected
to what Replay was providing for their tiny number of customers, they'd
surely go after a company that did something similar for the much larger
universe of DVD.

It may be silly, but that's the way the IP lobby seems to work. They
don't go after Hauppage, but they would go after TiVo or any other
well-known company that tried to make it easy to do in the living room
what can already be done with a computer.
 >> Stay informed about: Ultimate Tivo Unit - When? Thoughts please. 

On 2008-02-07, Neill Massello <massello DeleteThis @newsguy.com> wrote:
> JEDIDIAH <jedi DeleteThis @nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>
>> That's rather silly.
>>
>> Any PC with an HD tuner can enable "mass pervassive piracy" for
>> any content that's been shown over an OTA channel. The output from
>> an ATSC/QAM card is ready made for this sort of thing.
>
> And such a device is being marketed by TiVo or some other consumer
> electronics company? If so, please provide a link.

Are you kidding?

Go to bestbuy.com, frys.com or newegg.com and do a search on QAM.

[deletia]

--


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 >> Stay informed about: Ultimate Tivo Unit - When? Thoughts please. 

JEDIDIAH <jedi.DeleteThis@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

> Go to bestbuy.com, frys.com or newegg.com and do a search on QAM.

Best Buy and Fry's: no matches found.

Newegg: 182 hits, mostly TV sets, wireless gear, and Hauppage cards, but
nothing that fits the description of a DVR with digital tuner and DVD
recorder.

Of course you can put a digital tuner card in a computer, as I
acknowledged in the portion of my post that you deleted. But that's not
the kind of user-friendly set-top device that the OP was referring to,
nor is downloading a file from a TiVo to a computer and then burning to
DVD. Yes, you can go from DVR to DVD while staying digital, but it
requires a computer and isn't particularly easy for technically
unsophisticated consumers.
 >> Stay informed about: Ultimate Tivo Unit - When? Thoughts please. 

In article <i2vqj.77023$m_6.75201@fe01.news.easynews.com>, "Seth" <seth_lerman.DeleteThis@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>"JEDIDIAH" <jedi.DeleteThis@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
>news:slrnfqkt5s.ncp.jedi@nomad.mishnet...
>> On 2008-02-06, Neill Massello <neillmassello.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Ted Zlatanov <tzz.DeleteThis@lifelogs.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's not theft, though it does possibly infringe copyrights.
>>>
>>> Correct, but not really relevant to Bill's main point that what Art does
>>> -- "sharing" programming without even moving it out of the digital
>>> domain -- is precisely what content providers have been trying to
>>> prevent, or at least retard, for years. They browbeat Replay into
>>> eliminating Internet program sharing and have forced the consumer
>>> electronics industry to accept DRM schemes like encryption for DVDs and
>>> HDCP for HDMI. There's no way they'd sit still if TiVo made it easy for
>>> technically unsophisticated consumers to distribute bit-perfect copies
>>> of recorded programs to anybody with a DVD player.
>>
>> That's rather silly.
>>
>> Any PC with an HD tuner can enable "mass pervassive piracy" for
>> any content that's been shown over an OTA channel. The output from
>> an ATSC/QAM card is ready made for this sort of thing.
>
>I doubt they care very much about what's available via OTA. It's more
>likely the ability to make a direct digital transfer of HD content from HBO
>and the like.
>

Why would anybody want to anymore. Pretty much everything comes out on a nice
little DVD set 1-3 months later and when you weigh in the cost of blanks, your
time, and hassles of burning the shows, plus the fact that the shows have
screen bugs that take up half the image at times advertising shows coming up
next . why bother.
 >> Stay informed about: Ultimate Tivo Unit - When? Thoughts please. 

Neill Massello wrote:
> JEDIDIAH <jedi.DeleteThis@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>
>> Go to bestbuy.com, frys.com or newegg.com and do a search on QAM.
>
> Best Buy and Fry's: no matches found.
>
> Newegg: 182 hits, mostly TV sets, wireless gear, and Hauppage cards,
> but nothing that fits the description of a DVR with digital tuner and
> DVD recorder.
>

Try a toshiba RDSX35 at
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvr/product.asp?model=rd-xs35
(click on the where to buy icon)

or even at walmart
Magnavox 80GB DVD Recorder w/ Digital Tuner ($198.84)

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8054241
 >> Stay informed about: Ultimate Tivo Unit - When? Thoughts please. 

On 2008-02-07, Neill Massello <massello.DeleteThis@newsguy.com> wrote:
> JEDIDIAH <jedi.DeleteThis@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>
>> Go to bestbuy.com, frys.com or newegg.com and do a search on QAM.
>
> Best Buy and Fry's: no matches found.
>
> Newegg: 182 hits, mostly TV sets, wireless gear, and Hauppage cards, but
> nothing that fits the description of a DVR with digital tuner and DVD
> recorder.

The Hauppauge cards ARE a "digital tuner".

"DVD recorder" is redundant and obsolete.

Any ATSC signal is nothing more than just a container for
MPEG video. Whatever you pull off of the PCI bus is going to
be ready to be shared with friends and familuy.

>
> Of course you can put a digital tuner card in a computer, as I
> acknowledged in the portion of my post that you deleted. But that's not
> the kind of user-friendly set-top device that the OP was referring to,

Actually, it's a lot simpler.

"set top boxes" for things like DVD recording are actually
remarkably bad attempts at that sort of thing. You would be
much better off with a minimac and some USB HDTV tuner.

> nor is downloading a file from a TiVo to a computer and then burning to
> DVD. Yes, you can go from DVR to DVD while staying digital, but it
> requires a computer and isn't particularly easy for technically
> unsophisticated consumers.

And a "DVD recorder" is? Puleeeze.

Tuning into TV with a computer is no more difficult than using
a stereo.

--


The average IT manager is a less effective mentor than a
Spongebob Squarepants cartoon.


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 >> Stay informed about: Ultimate Tivo Unit - When? Thoughts please. 

>>I doubt they care very much about what's available via OTA. It's more
>>likely the ability to make a direct digital transfer of HD content from HBO
>>and the like.
>>
>
>Why would anybody want to anymore. Pretty much everything comes out on a nice
>little DVD set 1-3 months later and when you weigh in the cost of blanks, your
>time, and hassles of burning the shows, plus the fact that the shows have
>screen bugs that take up half the image at times advertising shows coming up
>next . why bother.

Commercial DVDs tend to have unskippable material such as the FBI
warning. That makes viewing the pirated version preferable, even if
you bought and paid for the commercial DVDs.
 >> Stay informed about: Ultimate Tivo Unit - When? Thoughts please.