Uber Jackals?

Oh wow, did not know that. I don't have a problem with monsters
leveling up as the player levels up, it just seemed to me that the
jackals leveled up so much faster than any other monster it must be a
bug.

I've been having so other problems with ADOM (actual bugs) so I think
I'll just wait until the next update comes out.

Thanks for the info!
 >> Stay informed about: Uber Jackals? 

On Feb 4, 4:12 pm, Murg <ScotCarl... RemoveThis @verizon.net> wrote:
> Oh wow, did not know that. I don't have a problem with monsters
> leveling up as the player levels up, it just seemed to me that the
> jackals leveled up so much faster than any other monster it must be a
> bug.
>
> I've been having so other problems with ADOM (actual bugs) so I think
> I'll just wait until the next update comes out.
>
> Thanks for the info!

They level up so much faster because of jackalweres - you encounter
one jackalwere, and you fight 20-30 jackals usually. It's even worse
in a wilderness fight; you probably have to kill upwards of 100
jackals in one of those fights, if in includes jackalweres (about 20
otherwise) (note: I haven't quantitized these numbers. They're just
guesses. Except for the last one, which I just checked.)
 >> Stay informed about: Uber Jackals? 

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"Murg" <ScotCarlson RemoveThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
news:c88ed114-13e8-4c74-936d-8131a4f67965@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> So I'd heard vague rumors of uber jackals before, but this was my
> first time encountering them.
>
> I lost a very promising level 17 archer in the Pyramid to a horde of
> uber-jackals, and looking back on the sequence of events, there was
> nothing I did wrong. There was no flaw with my character: She was
> cleaving through all the opposition with ease up until she met the
> uber-jackals. I'm using ADOM 1.1.1. which is apparently the latest
> ADOM version, and there are no new versions expected any time soon?
>
> I was having fun with ADOM up until now, and I don't want to have to
> put the game away because of this bug. What solutions are available to
> fix it?
>
> Thanks,

As far as I know, uber-jackal( there are some other monsters that also
produce uber effect) problem is not a bug. And even if it is a bug, I
wouldn't want it removed because it increases the excitement of the game and
it also makes you think. ADOM and a lot of other RPG rely heavily on random
effect. So it doesn't matter that you did everything right, there is always
a chance that something unpredictable will happen( there could be a vortex,
a gorgon, a ghost lord, a ki-rin, a emperor lich etc.( all from my personal
experiance), just waiting behind a closed door for you to open them and
before you could do anything, you are already dead). While this is
frustrating( I bashed few keyboards in my time), I wouldn't want it any
other way.

If you don't like this things happening to you, than maybe ADOM is not for
you. I hope you don't give up on ADOM and continue to play it. This things
will continue to happen but it's up to you to learn from them and use this
experience in the future games( next time you see a lonely jackalware in a
room, you'll think twice before charging in and maybe you'll just lock that
damn beast in). Don't be spoiled by quick fixes, they ruin the experience of
this great game.

And now to answer your last question. Yes, there is a patch that *fixes*
your problem. I think it's called windows patch or windows patcher. It's
been discussed here before so google it if you really want it.
 >> Stay informed about: Uber Jackals? 

On Feb 4, 9:29 am, coppro <ride....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 4, 7:19 am, Murg <ScotCarl....TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > So I'd heard vague rumors of uber jackals before, but this was my
> > first time encountering them.
>
> > I lost a very promising level 17 archer in the Pyramid to a horde of
> > uber-jackals, and looking back on the sequence of events, there was
> > nothing I did wrong. There was no flaw with my character: She was
> > cleaving through all the opposition with ease up until she met the
> > uber-jackals. I'm using ADOM 1.1.1. which is apparently the latest
> > ADOM version, and there are no new versions expected any time soon?
>
> > I was having fun with ADOM up until now, and I don't want to have to
> > put the game away because of this bug. What solutions are available to
> > fix it?
>
> > Thanks,
>
> It's not a bug. Monsters get stronger the more you kill. Granted, it
> can be extremely annoying to find yourself killed by a rat or jackal
> when you're a high-level character, but it's a game mechanic that we
> all have to live with.
>
> My #1 tip for dealing with it is to never, ever fight a jackal
> encounter in the wilderness if you can help it, and to always kill
> jackalweres, wererats, etc. ASAP

I thought it was a bit of both, bug and feature. The feature is them
getting stronger. The bug was them getting strong real fast.

Although it makes sense to make it harder to scum for XP, I don't
really think it's so good an idea to make you DIE from it. Why not,
as an alternative, perhaps have the XP gain fall off the more monsters
of a given type you kill? This way it would make it more difficult
to scum for XP, but you wouldn't have to DIE, especially when
you're _forced_ by breeders and stuff to kill common creatures
en masse.
 >> Stay informed about: Uber Jackals? 

On Feb 4, 10:05 am, "TragicTheGarnerer"
<tragicthegarnererMA....TakeThisOut@email.t-com.hr> wrote:
<snip>
> As far as I know, uber-jackal( there are some other monsters that also
> produce uber effect) problem is not a bug. And even if it is a bug, I
> wouldn't want it removed because it increases the excitement of the game and
> it also makes you think. <snip>

Hmm. So what do you do once the jackals have gotten uber, anyway?

And furthermore, why just jackals, why not every type of monster? Or
is it just because jackals are so common?
 >> Stay informed about: Uber Jackals? 

coppro wrote:
> They level up so much faster because of jackalweres - you encounter
> one jackalwere, and you fight 20-30 jackals usually. It's even worse
> in a wilderness fight; you probably have to kill upwards of 100
> jackals in one of those fights, if in includes jackalweres (about 20
> otherwise) (note: I haven't quantitized these numbers. They're just
> guesses. Except for the last one, which I just checked.


Personally, I hate blinkdogs far more (at least after I've eaten one
corpse). At least with jackals, rats and spiders, you know what to kill
first. Blinkdogs will summon themselves and once they appear on a level
are likely to blink in again. Besides, they are tougher to begin with,
so those levels they gather start to really hurt. If you're unlucky
enough to have them spawn in SMC, well bye bye (recent painful
memories). I've never had much problem with jackals, but than again, i
avoid killing them as if they are cats

s.
 >> Stay informed about: Uber Jackals? 

"Murg" wrote...
> So I'd heard vague rumors of uber jackals before, but this was my
> first time encountering them.
>
> I lost a very promising level 17 archer in the Pyramid to a horde of
> uber-jackals, and looking back on the sequence of events, there was
> nothing I did wrong. There was no flaw with my character: She was
> cleaving through all the opposition with ease up until she met the
> uber-jackals. I'm using ADOM 1.1.1. which is apparently the latest
> ADOM version, and there are no new versions expected any time soon?
>
> I was having fun with ADOM up until now, and I don't want to have to
> put the game away because of this bug. What solutions are available to
> fix it?

There is an unofficial patch called ToGu's patch which limits the uberjackal
effect and makes a few other changes to the game. I personally don't use it
because it means making the game easier in several ways, but I'd recommend
you use it if the uberjackal effect annoys you to the point of wanting to
not play the game. There will not be any bugfixes of ADOM in the near
future, and even if there are they may not remove this feature of the game.
Your only choices are to deal with the problem (ie not kill too many of one
type of monster) or use ToGu's patch. I find it's not trouble at all to
simply avoid racking up too much of any one kind of kill, and have completed
numerous games without suffering the uberjackal effect from any monsters.
It's just another tactic to the game - one of many

--
Darren Grey
 >> Stay informed about: Uber Jackals? 

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"mike3" <mike4ty4.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:df17b9dd-d186-4541-aa24-ed118fcc468d@c23g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> Hmm. So what do you do once the jackals have gotten uber, anyway?

That's the whole point when I say it makes you think. The point is that you
prevent them ever becoming uber.

How?
Sneak up or teleport to jackalwere and kill him right away or transform him
or just lock him in the room or ... Think.

> And furthermore, why just jackals, why not every type of monster? Or
> is it just because jackals are so common?

Yes, because they are so common. Theoretically, uber effect can be produced
by any monster type that can be randomly generated in the dungeon. But
rarely will you in a single game kill more than a hundred or so monsters of
the same type( even orcs or goblins or kobolds) unless there are some
summoner that summons them or they are breeders( the only exception would be
blue dragons that I can think of right now). But like coppro said before, in
a single random wilderness encounter, you could be surrounded by dozens or
even a hundred of jackals. Jackalwares are the most common but you have to
look out for all kinds of summoners and breeders.

In almost 10 years of playing the game, I don't remember having a big
problem with uber-jackals. Like sandra said, blink dogs can become a pain
especially in the early game. Long time ago, I had a major problem with
worms in the big room so I'm still *allergic* to them and I 'shoot them on
sight'. Giant bee warriors get my vote for being the most annoying monsters
in the game, they can produce some serious uber-giant bee warriors. The
biggest uber effect, as I remember, create chaos servants. That is why I
wouldn't want the uber effect removed because without it, the mana temple
and the final level would be a totaly different experience.
 >> Stay informed about: Uber Jackals? 

"Murg" <ScotCarlson.RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:c88ed114-13e8-4c74-936d-8131a4f67965@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> So I'd heard vague rumors of uber jackals before, but this was my
> first time encountering them.
>
> I lost a very promising level 17 archer in the Pyramid to a horde of
> uber-jackals, and looking back on the sequence of events, there was
> nothing I did wrong. There was no flaw with my character: She was
> cleaving through all the opposition with ease up until she met the
> uber-jackals. I'm using ADOM 1.1.1. which is apparently the latest
> ADOM version, and there are no new versions expected any time soon?
>
> I was having fun with ADOM up until now, and I don't want to have to
> put the game away because of this bug. What solutions are available to
> fix it?
>
> Thanks,

Section 0.9.7 of the IGB discusses the effects.
---
http://sweb.cz/adomgb
 >> Stay informed about: Uber Jackals? 

Murg <ScotCarlson DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote in news:c88ed114-13e8-4c74-936d-
8131a4f67965 DeleteThis @i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

> So I'd heard vague rumors of uber jackals before, but this was my
> first time encountering them.
>
> I lost a very promising level 17 archer in the Pyramid to a horde of
> uber-jackals, and looking back on the sequence of events, there was
> nothing I did wrong. There was no flaw with my character: She was
> cleaving through all the opposition with ease up until she met the
> uber-jackals. I'm using ADOM 1.1.1. which is apparently the latest
> ADOM version, and there are no new versions expected any time soon?
>
> I was having fun with ADOM up until now, and I don't want to have to
> put the game away because of this bug. What solutions are available to
> fix it?
>
> Thanks,

Consider using an older version. ADOM 1.0.0.
seems to me to have many advantages over
ADOM 1.1.1. No uber jackels and more
stability (at least it seems to me) are
two of the nicer ones. I also consider it
to be a somewhat 'easy' version of the game,
in many ways. It means no 'talent' system
though.
 >> Stay informed about: Uber Jackals? 

TragicTheGarnerer wrote:

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> "mike3" <mike4ty4.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:df17b9dd-d186-4541-aa24-ed118fcc468d@c23g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>> Hmm. So what do you do once the jackals have gotten uber, anyway?
>
> That's the whole point when I say it makes you think. The point is that
> you prevent them ever becoming uber.
>
> How?
> Sneak up or teleport to jackalwere and kill him right away or transform
> him or just lock him in the room or ... Think.
>
>> And furthermore, why just jackals, why not every type of monster? Or
>> is it just because jackals are so common?
>
> Yes, because they are so common. Theoretically, uber effect can be
> produced by any monster type that can be randomly generated in the
> dungeon. But rarely will you in a single game kill more than a hundred or
> so monsters of the same type( even orcs or goblins or kobolds) unless
> there are some summoner that summons them or they are breeders( the only
> exception would be blue dragons that I can think of right now). But like
> coppro said before, in a single random wilderness encounter, you could be
> surrounded by dozens or even a hundred of jackals. Jackalwares are the
> most common but you have to look out for all kinds of summoners and
> breeders.

IIRC it is so bad with jackals because Adom calculates the uber-effect based
on the creation propability of a monster. However this means just the
propability of a monster being created on a certain level - no wilderness
encounters and summoners are taken into account. Thus this game feature is
far more often perceived with summoned monsters that normally appear quite
rare in dungeons just like jackals.
--
rgra bug list: http://www.geocities.com/adombugs
 >> Stay informed about: Uber Jackals? 

"xhoch3" <xhoch3.RemoveThis@safe-mail.net> wrote in message
news:foadqm$qu2$00$1@news.t-online.com...
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> IIRC it is so bad with jackals because Adom calculates the uber-effect
> based
> on the creation propability of a monster. However this means just the
> propability of a monster being created on a certain level - no wilderness
> encounters and summoners are taken into account. Thus this game feature is
> far more often perceived with summoned monsters that normally appear quite
> rare in dungeons just like jackals.
> --
> rgra bug list: http://www.geocities.com/adombugs

I think you're absolutely right and you provide a great explanation. Like
you said, only creation propability and no summoners or wilderness
encounters are taken into account and no one said that they are. But rarely
will you see a hundred jackals being summoned by a single jackalware or
spiders by a single dark elf in a dungeon level( you'll already manage to
kill him) while it is quite probable that in random encounter you'll end up
with two jackalweres summoning dozens upon dozens of jackals before you'll
even see them because of the huge open area. And you end up with 150 jackals
killed in a single fight. So the next jackal you find, whether he's
generated randomly somewere in the dungeon or he's summoned, will be quite
formidable.

That's probably what bothers new and unexperienced players. They tend to
travel a lot between dungeons through wilderness, not trying to minimize the
time spent in the wild, and end up with more than a few of this encounters.
 >> Stay informed about: Uber Jackals? 

On Feb 5, 9:58 pm, "TragicTheGarnerer" <tragicthegarnererMA....RemoveThis@email.t-
com.hr> wrote:
> "xhoch3" <xho....RemoveThis@safe-mail.net> wrote in message
>
> news:foadqm$qu2$00$1@news.t-online.com...
>
>
>
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>
> > IIRC it is so bad with jackals because Adom calculates the uber-effect
> > based
> > on the creation propability of a monster. However this means just the
> > propability of a monster being created on a certain level - no wilderness
> > encounters and summoners are taken into account. Thus this game feature is
> > far more often perceived with summoned monsters that normally appear quite
> > rare in dungeons just like jackals.
> > --
> > rgra bug list:http://www.geocities.com/adombugs
>
> I think you're absolutely right and you provide a great explanation. Like
> you said, only creation propability and no summoners or wilderness
> encounters are taken into account and no one said that they are. But rarely
> will you see a hundred jackals being summoned by a single jackalware or
> spiders by a single dark elf in a dungeon level( you'll already manage to
> kill him) while it is quite probable that in random encounter you'll end up
> with two jackalweres summoning dozens upon dozens of jackals before you'll
> even see them because of the huge open area. And you end up with 150 jackals
> killed in a single fight. So the next jackal you find, whether he's
> generated randomly somewere in the dungeon or he's summoned, will be quite
> formidable.
>
> That's probably what bothers new and unexperienced players. They tend to
> travel a lot between dungeons through wilderness, not trying to minimize the
> time spent in the wild, and end up with more than a few of this encounters.

Putting aside that newbie does not have map memorized and thus does
not know
shortest routes and eventually spends extra time travelling to find
some locations.

You spend a lot of time travelling wilderness thourghout the in game.
And a LOT
during early stages. Whole "Kranach" quest requires one to roam
wilderness randomly
in hopes of his spawn.

Even if you travel minimal time, you still risk that 100-jackals
encounter anyway so
this is not issue of newbies playing wrong way.

It really seems like design mistake.

UBER effect is in game for reason thou, but there are different
appraches on how to stop
player progressing on easy monsters (if we want to, but only MMO
requires this kind of
player limiting IMO): worse loot drops, less xp/weapon marks, etc..

Another approach would be to cap UBER effect based on danger level:
jackals would be
maximally as strongr as strongest monster you can encounter in that
dungeon level/wilderness tile.
 >> Stay informed about: Uber Jackals?