U9: mirror in LB's bedroom

> AFAIK it doesn't affect the game at all, except that you gain some karma
> (and mana) by breaking it. Like a number of the other cutscenes it

Any karma in U9? What gameplay stuff is dependent on karma? Mana ceiling
value?

--
Max
 >> Stay informed about: U9: mirror in LB's bedroom 

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> doesn't quite make sense. I think it's supposed to be scaring LB with a
> scene of Armageddon to come or some such.

Also more questions.

The movie which is shown after entering the moongate on Earth. Blackthorn
talking to the Guardian about the Avatar.

Am I correct that the Guardian was too busy with some magical plan to
enslave Britannia, so busy so he assigned Blackthorn a task of dispatching
the Avatar?

What was the Guardian's plan? The columns?

When did Guardian enter Britannia? On Avatar's return from Pagan? Or just
after tossing the Avatar from Serpent Isle to Pagan?

How the scene with a dragon (with Wyrmguard mounted) spitting flames on the
Avatar at the top of the peak is connected to the rest? How could Avatar
survive this?

--
Max
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Moscow Dragon wrote:

>> AFAIK it doesn't affect the game at all, except that you gain some karma
>> (and mana) by breaking it. Like a number of the other cutscenes it
>
> Any karma in U9? What gameplay stuff is dependent on karma? Mana ceiling
> value?
>

Yes. While it's fun to go around slagging people off or beating them up,
it will quickly eat away your ability to cast spells.

There's a blind woman on the road to Paws who will illuminate you further.
(In my screenshot gallery she became stuck inside one of the trees)

When I first examined the mirror in LB's bedroom, I didn't have the
movies configured properly, so the avatar simply smashed LB's mirror and
gained a whole load of brownie points for doing it. This had me scratching
my head for quite a while.

I was even afraid LB would find out about the vandalism and order my head
off or something.

Remember:

1. Killing children is OK (Uh..?)
2. Killing the gardener types is also OK, but only if you use arrows.
3. Killing the broom woman isn't OK (even though she's pretty evil)
4. You can purchase karma from the beggar guy (Please Sir.. Please Sir..)
but this only works once.

--
JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- jpm.DeleteThis@it-he.org
Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org
Reign of the Just - An Ultima clone http://rotj.it-he.org
d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KAW u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
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 >> Stay informed about: U9: mirror in LB's bedroom 

"Michael Cecil" <macecil DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:n65741p1orbb6p9q1l88n5f92osiu1m5u2@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 07:01:04 +0300, "Moscow Dragon" <maxim__s DeleteThis @mtu-net.ru>
> wrote:
>
>>> doesn't quite make sense. I think it's supposed to be scaring LB with a
>>> scene of Armageddon to come or some such.
>>
>>Also more questions.
>>
>>The movie which is shown after entering the moongate on Earth. Blackthorn
>>talking to the Guardian about the Avatar.
>>
>>Am I correct that the Guardian was too busy with some magical plan to
>>enslave Britannia, so busy so he assigned Blackthorn a task of dispatching
>>the Avatar?
>>
>>What was the Guardian's plan? The columns?
>>
>>When did Guardian enter Britannia? On Avatar's return from Pagan? Or just
>>after tossing the Avatar from Serpent Isle to Pagan?
>>
>>How the scene with a dragon (with Wyrmguard mounted) spitting flames on
>>the
>>Avatar at the top of the peak is connected to the rest? How could Avatar
>>survive this?

A brief note: that's explained in the aforementioned conversation between
Blackthorn and the Guardian. Blackthorn thinks/claims that the Avatar must
have been killed, as he was engulfed in flames and the Mirror of Darkness
ceased to show his location... but he was actually teleported to Stonegate
(or so that Guardian rightly guesses) by (depending on whether or not you
have the Dialogue Patch) Hawkwind or Shamino, probably/presumably before he
suffered any severe burns. Also, healing magic may have been involved after
the teleportation. Not certain.

> I don't think you can really fit the cutscenes into the game too well. If
> you read Bob White's account of what the original plot was supposed to be
> <http://members.aon.at/hacki-ultima/english/articles_orig_plot.htm> then
> they start to make more sense. IIRC, the cutscenes were all done before
> they threw out the original script and we got Tomb Raider Avatar but they
> just crammed the existing cutscenes in there anyhow.

--
The Triad
User of 'Thingamajig!'
Refractor Dragon -=(UDIC)=-
 >> Stay informed about: U9: mirror in LB's bedroom 

> you read Bob White's account of what the original plot was supposed to be
> <http://members.aon.at/hacki-ultima/english/articles_orig_plot.htm> then

Very interesting, for instance, this place:

"He then indicates that LB and the Avatar must make a final journey to
Stonegate to confront the Guardian for it was from there that he cast forth
the runes to form the columns."

Now note the goat-horned demon statues in Stonegate's room with a water pool
which are surely evil. Note the Shadowlord statues which are surely evil
too.

From what I know on Shadowlords, they are very much like Tolkien's Nazgul
(*) in their "physiology" with the name of female Shadowlord being Astaroth
(surely from ancient goddess Astarte who is a female demon of lust in Hebrew
and Christian tradition). Such beings are unlikely to be good.

Also note! The girl statues surrounding the Stonegate tower are holding the
evil glyphs (distorted runes) over their heads! So, the place is surely
evil, and probably connected to Guardian. It is a bit amazing that the
Avatar ended there. Probably this was due to some magical device which
Guardian has forgotten at the top of the mountain where the dragon
incinerated the Avatar.

--
(*) I know (over email) the Russian female writer who recently published a
paper book about Tolkien's Nazgul, how they started this game with Sauron,
trying to challenge this ancient super-human might, and how they failed at
last. Will buy a book in some days, i only know some "spoilers" about it.
The woman is a former co-author of the "Black Book Of Arda" which is "The
Silmarillion" rewritten to impose Melkor as a kind teacher and Valar as evil
Nazi-like rulers.

Max
 >> Stay informed about: U9: mirror in LB's bedroom 

Greetings.

In article <d220r4$lgq$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru>, Moscow Dragon wrote:
> From what I know on Shadowlords, they are very much like Tolkien's Nazgul
> (*) in their "physiology" with the name of female Shadowlord being
> Astaroth (surely from ancient goddess Astarte who is a female demon of
> lust in Hebrew and Christian tradition). Such beings are unlikely to be
> good.

One of the Shadowlords was indeed female, but it wasn't Astaroth; it was
Nosfentor. And what makes you so sure that Astaroth is the Phoenician
goddess Astarte and not the Christian demon Astaroth himself? (Granted,
the name Astaroth is probably a corruption of Astarte, but the two figures
have been distinct for nearly two thousand years.)

Regards,
Tristan

--
_
_V.-o Tristan Miller [en,(fr,de,ia)] >< Space is limited
/ |`-' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= <> In a haiku, so it's hard
(7_\\ http://www.nothingisreal.com/ >< To finish what you
 >> Stay informed about: U9: mirror in LB's bedroom 

"Moscow Dragon" <maxim__s RemoveThis @mtu-net.ru> wrote in
news:d1vn1h$27qt$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru:

> In LB's bedroom in the castle, there is a round mirror which looks
> bloody. Trying to use it shows a movie of some wave of flames
> consuming several people, and, after this, the mirror is broken.
>

It came from the original end, when the Armageddon spell kills everyone in
Britannia. I suspect they had the movie already rendered and didn't feel
like wasting it.
I should note that the mirror is identical to the one that Arcadion was
trapped in.



-==Kensu==-
 >> Stay informed about: U9: mirror in LB's bedroom 

> Nosfentor. And what makes you so sure that Astaroth is the Phoenician
> goddess Astarte and not the Christian demon Astaroth himself?
> the name Astaroth is probably a corruption of Astarte

Either of "Astarte" or of "Astar".

There was the Arabic pre-Muslim god of Astar, worshipped in ancient
pre-Muslim Yemen. There were some notes that Astar and Astarte were brother
and sister, which was to some degree borrowed by Hellenic Greeks as Ares and
Aphrodite (about the equality Aphrodite=Astarte see Herodotus and Freser
"The Golden Branch" or such - sorry, read the latter in Russian translation
only).

The demon couple of Astaroth (male) and Ashtoreth (female) is obviously
about this. BTW - "Astarte" is obviously the Greek spelling. The tail "e" is
the "N with a long leg" Greek glyph, which is usually spelled as "i" in
Greek. Like "Pinelopi" or "Mnimosini" - the names are really spelled like
this.

The Semitic spelling should be other a bit, and "Astaroth" or "Ashtoreth"
fits properly. Compare to "Edioth Ahronoth" (the modern Israeli newspaper
name, Hebrew language is probably the closest one to ancient Phoenician) and
to "Bal Sagoth" (Lord Of multiple of something called "sag").

>, but the two figures
> have been distinct for nearly two thousand years.)

Really? Ever read the Old Testament about the Hebrew and Christian (this
book is sacred for both religions) attitude against Phoenician gods? Astarte
is called nothing else then "scum of Sidon" or such. The attitude was very,
very much negative.

More so. There was one Russian writer of 1800ies who is well-known in Russia
as one of the ideological precursors of the communists. He explicitly uses
the name "Astarte" as the name of the female demon of lust (his text is
anti-sexual a bit, you see, a good old communistic barrack utopia).

--
Max
 >> Stay informed about: U9: mirror in LB's bedroom