U7 vs. Baldur's Gate

"Moscow Dragon" <maxim__s.RemoveThis@mtu-net.ru> wrote in message
news:cv5d34$2mca$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru...
> Is Baldur's Gate worth trying after U7?
>
> Can somebody list the advantages of BG vs U7 and the drawbacks of BG vs
> U7?
>
> I mean - game principles, engine features (like - are NPCs smart or
> not?), plot depth, possibilities of cheating like JPMorris did with U7SI,
> and so on...

We've played the latter, and once started to play the former--the main
drawback, that we saw, was the movement speed. Everything else (graphics
and the like) we could have lived with... but the movement speed, after a
long enough time, was unbearable. Granted, our attempts to uncover as much
about the map that could be covered (up to and including going around
Candlekeep in each direction, as far as we were able) may have contributed
to the acuteness of this disadvantage.

Sadly, in reference to plot depth and the like, we didn't get very far, and
so can't say much--if anything--about it. Sorry.

--
The Triad
User of 'Thingamajig!'
Refractor Dragon -=(UDIC)=-
 >> Stay informed about: U7 vs. Baldur's Gate 

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 >> Stay informed about: U7 vs. Baldur's Gate 

The Triad wrote:

>> Can somebody list the advantages of BG vs U7 and the drawbacks of BG
>> vs U7?
>
> We've played the latter, and once started to play the former--the main
> drawback, that we saw, was the movement speed. Everything else (graphics
> and the like) we could have lived with... but the movement speed, after a
> long enough time, was unbearable.

There's a "run" mode, where the characters race around instead of walking.
It certainly speeds things up, although it takes a bit of the realism away
from the game.

> Granted, our attempts to uncover as
> much about the map that could be covered (up to and including going around
> Candlekeep in each direction, as far as we were able) may have contributed
> to the acuteness of this disadvantage.

I probably spent quite a few minutes on some of the coastal regions trying
to get more of the map exposed

> Sadly, in reference to plot depth and the like, we didn't get very far,
> and so can't say much--if anything--about it. Sorry.

The plot is a little more closed (and linear), there certainly is much
less interaction with the world, but it is purdy. It's also a fairly
involved and interesting storyline so linearity isn't so bad (besides,
most books are linear and I like books).

--
Chris Craig
http://ciotog.net
Life of Siobhana: http://members.fortunecity.com/siobhana
Life of Galen: pending... (Where's the time...)
 >> Stay informed about: U7 vs. Baldur's Gate 

"Chris Craig" <usenet.RemoveThis@ciotog.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.02.22.07.06.54.192452@ciotog.net...
> The Triad wrote:
>
>>> Can somebody list the advantages of BG vs U7 and the drawbacks of BG
>>> vs U7?
>>
>> We've played the latter, and once started to play the former--the main
>> drawback, that we saw, was the movement speed. Everything else (graphics
>> and the like) we could have lived with... but the movement speed, after
>> a
>> long enough time, was unbearable.
>
> There's a "run" mode, where the characters race around instead of walking.
> It certainly speeds things up, although it takes a bit of the realism away
> from the game.

Doesn't that also speed everyone else up, too?

>> Granted, our attempts to uncover as
>> much about the map that could be covered (up to and including going
>> around
>> Candlekeep in each direction, as far as we were able) may have
>> contributed
>> to the acuteness of this disadvantage.
>
> I probably spent quite a few minutes on some of the coastal regions trying
> to get more of the map exposed

*nods; winces*

>> Sadly, in reference to plot depth and the like, we didn't get very far,
>> and so can't say much--if anything--about it. Sorry.
>
> The plot is a little more closed (and linear), there certainly is much
> less interaction with the world, but it is purdy. It's also a fairly
> involved and interesting storyline so linearity isn't so bad (besides,
> most books are linear and I like books).

Hmm.

--
The Triad
User of 'Thingamajig!'
Refractor Dragon -=(UDIC)=-
 >> Stay informed about: U7 vs. Baldur's Gate 

The Triad wrote:

>> There's a "run" mode, where the characters race around instead of
>> walking. It certainly speeds things up, although it takes a bit of the
>> realism away from the game.
>
> Doesn't that also speed everyone else up, too?

Just party members. It's kinda funny to see how each of them scurries
around - but PS:Torment was more fun in this regard.

--
Chris Craig
http://ciotog.net
Life of Siobhana: http://members.fortunecity.com/siobhana
Life of Galen: pending... (Where's the time...)
 >> Stay informed about: U7 vs. Baldur's Gate 

In article <1108998577.76abd8b8184259244d6fa3557736ecbc@teranews>,
macecil DeleteThis @comcast.net says...
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:37:13 -0000, "The Triad" <wanderer DeleteThis @beeb.web> wrote:
>
> >"Moscow Dragon" <maxim__s DeleteThis @mtu-net.ru> wrote in message
> >news:cv5d34$2mca$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru...
> >> Is Baldur's Gate worth trying after U7?
> >>
> >> Can somebody list the advantages of BG vs U7 and the drawbacks of BG vs
> >> U7?
> >>
> >> I mean - game principles, engine features (like - are NPCs smart or
> >> not?), plot depth, possibilities of cheating like JPMorris did with U7SI,
> >> and so on...
> >
> >We've played the latter, and once started to play the former--the main
> >drawback, that we saw, was the movement speed. Everything else (graphics
> >and the like) we could have lived with... but the movement speed, after a
> >long enough time, was unbearable. Granted, our attempts to uncover as much
> >about the map that could be covered (up to and including going around
> >Candlekeep in each direction, as far as we were able) may have contributed
> >to the acuteness of this disadvantage.

*nods* Sometimes it does take a while to completely explore a map. We
did that with all of them (to make perty screenshot maps). At least,
until we discovered a better way to do it. That was much later tho.

> >Sadly, in reference to plot depth and the like, we didn't get very far, and
> >so can't say much--if anything--about it. Sorry.

It is whole bunches of good. That is my one comment on the game in
general. My short list of favorites includes BG/ToSC/SoA/ToB (as well
as Fallout/Fallout2, Planescape: Torment, and Knights of the Old
Republic/The Sith Lords (even if that is a somewhat dorky title after
having finished it), among a few others).

> The most fun thing I remember about it was the way assassins show up in
> various towns to kill you - reminded me a bit of U5 and the way towns
> might not be safe there.

I also enjoyed the way things in the world changed because of your
actions. There is still a ways to go before this is perfected I know,
but to me, this is a pretty big thing, even in small doses.

> There are a lot of side quests. Seems like there is a funny one about a
> chicken...

*nods* Indeed.

> I'd say it would be worth playing. No game yet lives up to U7 but that
> doesn't mean you should eschew all of them.

I enjoyed BG quite a bit, and agree with the worth playing comment.

I do not agree with the 'no game yet lives up to U7' comment. To try
and compare/contrast with U7 is something akin (in my mind) to trying to
compare/contrast a movie with the book it is based on. They are -not-
the same thing, and you will just end up with less hair if you try.

-thehawk
Fallen Angel Dragon, UDIC
 >> Stay informed about: U7 vs. Baldur's Gate 

"Chris Craig" <usenet.TakeThisOut@ciotog.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.02.25.06.50.25.254941@ciotog.net...
> The Triad wrote:
>
>>> There's a "run" mode, where the characters race around instead of
>>> walking. It certainly speeds things up, although it takes a bit of the
>>> realism away from the game.
>>
>> Doesn't that also speed everyone else up, too?
>
> Just party members.

Hmm. Interesting.

> It's kinda funny to see how each of them scurries
> around - but PS:Torment was more fun in this regard.

Ah, now /there's/ a great game. *smiles*

....we have to replay that some day... maybe this time stay as a fighter the
whole way through, instead of constantly switching between the three; could
help with gaining status points (or whatever they were called... argh,
cannot remember).

--
The Triad
User of 'Thingamajig!'
Refractor Dragon -=(UDIC)=-
 >> Stay informed about: U7 vs. Baldur's Gate 

thehawk wrote:

> compare/contrast a movie with the book it is based on.

Oh, absolutely the book is much better!

--
Chris Craig
http://ciotog.net
Life of Siobhana: http://members.fortunecity.com/siobhana
Life of Galen: pending... (Where's the time...)
 >> Stay informed about: U7 vs. Baldur's Gate 

<snip>
> Still, they're better than any Ultima fan-fiction.

Even Shadow of Light's work? [smiley] o.O [/smiley]

--
The Triad
User of 'Thingamajig!'
Refractor Dragon -=(UDIC)=-
 >> Stay informed about: U7 vs. Baldur's Gate 

I asked questions about Planescape Torment in another thread. Now I want
to ask the same about Baldur's Gate.

Any party in Baldur's Gate?
Any player stats which grow due to training or combat victories?
Are NPCs alive?
Are all items in the world - usable?
How many NPCs to talk are there? U7 has up to 200.

--
Max
 >> Stay informed about: U7 vs. Baldur's Gate 

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 04:43:49 +0300, "Moscow Dragon"
<maxim__s RemoveThis @mtu-net.ru> wrote:

> I asked questions about Planescape Torment in another thread. Now I want
>to ask the same about Baldur's Gate.
>
>Any party in Baldur's Gate?
Yes. You have your main character, plus up to five other NPCs who will
follow you around. From memory, there are about 15 or so NPCs who will
join up with you, so you can configure your party to your taste.

>Any player stats which grow due to training or combat victories?
Baldur's Gate is based on the 2nd Edition AD&D rules system, so your
stats don't go up (unless you find special magic items). It's a
class-based system. You get experience points for completing quests
and defeating monsters; with enough XP you reach the next level and
your skills (e.g., swinging a sword, pickpocketing, or spellcasting)
increase.

>Are NPCs alive?
To some degree, but compared to the standard set by U7 they are pretty
static. Almost all NPC movement and actions are triggered by the PC;
although there are a few exceptions, there are no time-based
schedules. If you meet NPC X in the tavern at the beginning of the
game, there's a high likelihood he'll be in the exact same spot at the
end of the game too.

>Are all items in the world - usable?
Not in the sense that you probably mean, i.e., the incredible world
interaction of Ultima 7. There are a number of items that can be
picked up and put in your inventory (e.g., potions, wands, weapons,
rings, etc.) but there's little other than that. Doors and the
occassional switch, that's pretty much it. The Baldur's Gate engine is
very pretty but, for the most part, it's a static bitmap that your
onscreen avatars walk across.

>How many NPCs to talk are there? U7 has up to 200.
A lot; the NPC count in Baldur's Gate probably equals or very likely
exceeds U7. However, a number of the NPCs (such as a goodly percentage
of the people in most taverns) are "filler" characters that are only
there to make the room look more crowded; they only respond with
1-line "barks". Futhermore, the more talkative NPCs are -for the most
part- all business; they mostly only talked about the various quests
they wanted you to fulfill. I never got the feeling, playing BG, of a
"living world" of the Ultimas, as the NPCs never seemed to have any
sort of life of their own (having said that, some of the
characterizations in BG are quite amusing).

Ultimately, though, Baldurs Gate and Ultima 7 are quite different
games and one really can't compare the two. If you are in the mood for
an RPG set in a "living world", you may be better off with something
like the Gothic series.
 >> Stay informed about: U7 vs. Baldur's Gate 

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On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 06:34:56 -0600, Michael Cecil
<macecil.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>BG uses the same engine as PS:T so everything previously said applies.

No, PS:T uses the same engine as BG!
 >> Stay informed about: U7 vs. Baldur's Gate