Type 1 Lich Deck.. feasible?

"John Gordon" <gordon.DeleteThis@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cp22bv$mi2$1@reader1.panix.com...
> In <B%isd.36161$kI6.1737842@news20.bellglobal.com> "Erich Leibrock"
> <eleibrock.DeleteThis@symDELETETHECAPSpatico.ca> writes:
>
>> Thanks for any suggestions.. Rogue decks can be SO MUCH FUN!
>
> A friend pf mine made a very good T1 Lich deck based around Eureka and
> Illusions of Grandeur.

Yeah.. I was thinking last night of a Trix-style deck with Lich in it. And a
buddy of mine stopped by and suggested Solitary Confinement. A Confined
Illusionary Lich.. am I throwing too much at it? Could always run Replenish
(like the first deck) maybe with Intuition (like the second) to get them all
into play at the same time..

Erich
 >> Stay informed about: Type 1 Lich Deck.. feasible? 

wouldn't stifle be useful?

On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 08:32:13 -0500, "Erich Leibrock"
<eleibrock RemoveThis @symDELETETHECAPSpatico.ca> wrote:

>Lich
>BBBB
>Enchantment
>As Lich comes into play, your life total becomes 0.
>You don't lose the game for having 0 or less life.
>If you would gain life, draw that many cards instead.
>Whenever you're dealt damage, sacrifice that many permanents.
>When Lich leaves play, you lose the game.
>
>I've been wanting to come up with a deck for this for quite some time now..
>ever since I got one in a game on Shandalar some time ago So I whipped up
>two deck ideas while I was at work. Here they are.. I'd love to see at least
>ONE of them be something useable! Both decks are completely untested as of
>yet, but I like the idea of using them.. maybe moreso than Zur's Weirding
>
>Deck 1: Black/Green/White
>
>3 Lich
>2 Platinum Angel
>2 Replenish
>2 Feldon's Cane
>4 Wellwisher
>4 Healing Salve
>4 Nourish
>3 Sterling Grove
>4 Gaea's Blessing
>3 Disenchant
>3 Swords to Plowshares
>
>1 Black Lotus
>1 Mox Emerald
>1 Mox Jet
>1 Mox Pearl
>1 Mox Ruby
>1 Mox Sapphire
>1 Sol Ring
>1 Strip Mine
>4 Wasteland
>4 Savannah
>4 Bayou
>3 Scrubland
>3 Gemstone Mine
>
>Deck 2: Black/Red/Blue
>
>2 Lich
>3 Form of the Dragon
>2 Gravity Sphere
>3 Feldon's Cane
>1 Timetwister
>1 Time Spiral
>1 Ancestral Recall
>1 Time Walk
>4 Misdirection
>4 Force of Will
>4 Mana Drain
>1 Demonic Tutor
>1 Yawgmoth's Will
>4 Accumulated Knowledge
>2 Intuition
>4 Dark Ritual
>
>1 Black Lotus
>1 Mox Emerald
>1 Mox Jet
>1 Mox Pearl
>1 Mox Ruby
>1 Mox Sapphire
>1 Sol Ring
>1 Strip Mine
>3 Wasteland
>4 Underground Sea
>3 Badlands
>2 Volcanic Island
>2 Gemstone Mine
>
>Thanks for any suggestions.. Rogue decks can be SO MUCH FUN!
>
>Erich
>
 >> Stay informed about: Type 1 Lich Deck.. feasible? 

> On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 08:32:13 -0500, "Erich Leibrock"
> <eleibrock RemoveThis @symDELETETHECAPSpatico.ca> wrote:
>
>>Lich
>>BBBB
>>Enchantment
>>As Lich comes into play, your life total becomes 0.
>>You don't lose the game for having 0 or less life.
>>If you would gain life, draw that many cards instead.
>>Whenever you're dealt damage, sacrifice that many permanents.
>>When Lich leaves play, you lose the game.

"Gareth Pye" <gareth RemoveThis @gpsatsys.com.au> wrote in message
news:nsm9r0ledffob60imjr5aehkgfa7e0s4rk@4ax.com...
> wouldn't stifle be useful?

I can't see Stifle being really useful, except maybe to save on sacrificing
permanents. If Lich didn't have that last line (When Lich leaves play, you
lose the game.) in there, you'd still lose, as your life total is 0 or less,
so you'd lose as a state-based effect. The only way around this that I can
see is to use Platinum Angel (which reads, in part, "You can't lose the game
and your opponents can't win the game."). Although that's not to say Stifle
would be useless; I don't know if it would fit the deck is all.

Erich
 >> Stay informed about: Type 1 Lich Deck.. feasible? 

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 07:37:12 -0500, "Erich Leibrock"
<eleibrock RemoveThis @symDELETETHECAPSpatico.ca> wrote:

>> On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 08:32:13 -0500, "Erich Leibrock"
>> <eleibrock RemoveThis @symDELETETHECAPSpatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>Lich
>>>BBBB
>>>Enchantment
>>>As Lich comes into play, your life total becomes 0.
>>>You don't lose the game for having 0 or less life.
>>>If you would gain life, draw that many cards instead.
>>>Whenever you're dealt damage, sacrifice that many permanents.
>>>When Lich leaves play, you lose the game.
>
>"Gareth Pye" <gareth RemoveThis @gpsatsys.com.au> wrote in message
>news:nsm9r0ledffob60imjr5aehkgfa7e0s4rk@4ax.com...
>> wouldn't stifle be useful?
>
>I can't see Stifle being really useful, except maybe to save on sacrificing
>permanents. If Lich didn't have that last line (When Lich leaves play, you
>lose the game.) in there, you'd still lose, as your life total is 0 or less,
>so you'd lose as a state-based effect. The only way around this that I can
>see is to use Platinum Angel (which reads, in part, "You can't lose the game
>and your opponents can't win the game."). Although that's not to say Stifle
>would be useless; I don't know if it would fit the deck is all.
>
>Erich
>
forgot the 0 life bit
 >> Stay informed about: Type 1 Lich Deck.. feasible? 

"Erich Leibrock" <eleibrock DeleteThis @symDELETETHECAPSpatico.ca> wrote in message
news:B%isd.36161$kI6.1737842@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Lich
> BBBB
> Enchantment
> As Lich comes into play, your life total becomes 0.
> You don't lose the game for having 0 or less life.
> If you would gain life, draw that many cards instead.
> Whenever you're dealt damage, sacrifice that many permanents.
> When Lich leaves play, you lose the game.

OK.. Let's try this from scratch.

1. Cards that go well with Lich that aren't part of the win condition.
So far I've seen Replenish and Oath of Druids both suggested, Replenish to
get into play easier (W3 is so much easier to pay than BBBB unless you're
running Dark Rituals or something..), and perhaps with Oath to get it into
the graveyard sooner to be Replenished. The only other option I can think of
involves - egads - HARDCASTING IT!! (Does anyone ever hardcast cards CMC>2
in Type 1??)
Apart from that, we'd be looking at lifegaining. Healing Salve can stave off
some good beats early or become an unrestricted Ancestral once Lich is in
play. Wellwisher - well we all know what kind of headache THAT can be as a
lifegainer, even on its own. Once a Lich is in play.. well, it's pretty easy
to draw four cards a turn, with just a pair of them.

2. Cards that go well with Lich that are part of the win condition.
I've got Platinum Angel, Form of the Dragon (draw five at the end of
turn..), Exalted Angel (draw four when it hits..), or Mirror Universe all
thrown at me as ideas.

3. Protective cards.
If we're running white, green would make for a good splash for Sterling
Grove. Alternatively, Blue (with or without the white) for cards like
Meddling Mage, the typical Counters (Mana Drain, MisD, Force of Will..), and
it has good draw and reasonable search - especially if you're looking to
dump cards to Replenish
Since we're running Black, discard is also an option, and it mixes well with
red for board resource denial, needing only a splash of green or white to
remove some enchantments.

So let's try this one step at a time.. Is there a better win condition for
this deck? And what style of deck should it be? Is Replenish a good option,
or is there a better way to deal with getting Lich into play?

Erich
 >> Stay informed about: Type 1 Lich Deck.. feasible? 

"Erich Leibrock" <eleibrock RemoveThis @symDELETETHECAPSpatico.ca> wrote in message
news:KUgud.62259$l%5.1853410@news20.bellglobal.com...
> "Erich Leibrock" <eleibrock RemoveThis @symDELETETHECAPSpatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:B%isd.36161$kI6.1737842@news20.bellglobal.com...
>> Lich
>> BBBB
>> Enchantment
>> As Lich comes into play, your life total becomes 0.
>> You don't lose the game for having 0 or less life.
>> If you would gain life, draw that many cards instead.
>> Whenever you're dealt damage, sacrifice that many permanents.
>> When Lich leaves play, you lose the game.
>
> OK.. Let's try this from scratch.
>
> 1. Cards that go well with Lich that aren't part of the win condition.
> So far I've seen Replenish and Oath of Druids both suggested, Replenish to
> get into play easier (W3 is so much easier to pay than BBBB unless you're
> running Dark Rituals or something..), and perhaps with Oath to get it into
> the graveyard sooner to be Replenished. The only other option I can think
> of involves - egads - HARDCASTING IT!! (Does anyone ever hardcast cards
> CMC>2 in Type 1??)
> Apart from that, we'd be looking at lifegaining. Healing Salve can stave
> off some good beats early or become an unrestricted Ancestral once Lich is
> in play. Wellwisher - well we all know what kind of headache THAT can be
> as a lifegainer, even on its own. Once a Lich is in play.. well, it's
> pretty easy to draw four cards a turn, with just a pair of them.

After some discussion with someone I know over on #themanadrain on EFnet, we
came up with the idea that, yeah, Replenish is good, but wouldn't it be
easier to get it from the library directly into play? I don't know, maybe
like.. Academy Rector? Same mana cost as Replenish, and the easiest useful
way to get it to go into the graveyard is Cabal Therapy. Oath out a Rector,
then play Therapy to get an enchantment of your choice into play. Solitary
Confinement + Squee is also an option.

So far we're looking at Oath of Druids, Academy Rector, and Cabal Therapy.
Replenish might fit in if necessary, perhaps vs Blue?

> 2. Cards that go well with Lich that are part of the win condition.
> I've got Platinum Angel, Form of the Dragon (draw five at the end of
> turn..), Exalted Angel (draw four when it hits..), or Mirror Universe all
> thrown at me as ideas.

Still haven't come up with a definite here, although since we're already
running Black, White, and Green, adding a fourth colour (Form of the Dragon)
isn't really a viable option. Depending on the number of creatures in the
deck, if we can fit a couple more in then run one of the two Angels
(Platinum or Exalted), and if not then use Mirror Universe, since I don't
think there's another option. If there is, I'd like to hear it.

> 3. Protective cards.
> If we're running white, green would make for a good splash for Sterling
> Grove. Alternatively, Blue (with or without the white) for cards like
> Meddling Mage, the typical Counters (Mana Drain, MisD, Force of Will..),
> and it has good draw and reasonable search - especially if you're looking
> to dump cards to Replenish
> Since we're running Black, discard is also an option, and it mixes well
> with red for board resource denial, needing only a splash of green or
> white to remove some enchantments.

Considering the colour scheme thus far, Sterling Grove would be a good fit.
It protects the enchantments short of a Tranquility effect, and it's also a
tutor for enchantments. Black/White/Green doesn't have a lot that's great
for protective cards I find, short of Swords to Plowshares,
Disenchant/Naturalize effects, and Balance. What am I missing?

Erich
 >> Stay informed about: Type 1 Lich Deck.. feasible?