Time to vent - Brief vent, then back to the games

I stopped leaving feedback all together. My rating is high enough that
I don't have to worry about impressing anyone anymore. If I get the
item within two weeks of paying then it doesn't matter to me if they
leave me feedback.
 >> Stay informed about: Time to vent - Brief vent, then back to the games 

In my opinion the buyer has only done 100% of everything right once
they leave feedback, at which time the seller should respond in kind.
It sucks that it has to be that way, but I've heard of countless cases
where buyers have left negative feedback with little-to-no basis for it
-- "overcharged" on shipping by $1, item took a week to arrive, item
wasn't really what I wanted (even though it was exactly as described in
the auction), etc -- these are real examples that I've seen in the
past, and they're why I'm one of those sellers that ticks you off by
refusing to leave feedback until I've received it. On the flipside,
I've never once heard of a seller leaving negative feedback after a
buyer has left them positive feedback.

I really hate having to take this stance, but it's just my way of
protecting myself from a flawed and easily-abused feedback system.
 >> Stay informed about: Time to vent - Brief vent, then back to the games 

Bobby Conover wrote:
> In my opinion the buyer has only done 100% of everything right once
> they leave feedback, at which time the seller should respond in kind.
> It sucks that it has to be that way, but I've heard of countless cases
> where buyers have left negative feedback with little-to-no basis for it
> -- "overcharged" on shipping by $1, item took a week to arrive, item
> wasn't really what I wanted (even though it was exactly as described in
> the auction), etc -- these are real examples that I've seen in the
> past, and they're why I'm one of those sellers that ticks you off by
> refusing to leave feedback until I've received it. On the flipside,
> I've never once heard of a seller leaving negative feedback after a
> buyer has left them positive feedback.
>
> I really hate having to take this stance, but it's just my way of
> protecting myself from a flawed and easily-abused feedback system.
I have to agree with Scott- When I win an auction and pay within 30
minutes, I am a perfect ebay buyer and should immediately get positive
feedback; otherwise, it is extortion. There is *zero* basis to leave a
buyer like that negative feedback, so the seller must be waiting to see
what feedback they are going to get.

On the other hand, the buyer cannot leave feedback until they get the
item and make sure it is what they bid on. If I get something that was
poorly packaged and have my feedback reflect that, the seller can then
"reciprocate" by giving negative feedback. How do I protect myself
against that?

Sean
 >> Stay informed about: Time to vent - Brief vent, then back to the games 

the only way to make it fare it that no one will get credit for
positive feedback till both parties give feedback.

but yes scott this has pissed me off too i have a perfect feedback but
it should be twice the number due to sellers not leaving me a feedback
in return, it sucks but ebay wont change it due to a system in favor of
the sellers which make ebay work, and the buyers wich will buy no
matter what the feedback system is.

frank


Scott Caldwell wrote:
> Unfortunately, I have no recourse for them refusing to leave me
> feedback even after I leave them positive feedback. Additionally,
> I can't leave negative feedback for them without them leaving it
> for me, even though I did everything right! That is the true
> flaw in the system. Large sellers have virtually no incentive to
> leave "smaller" (less feedback) buyers feedback (I've had a
> couple actually tell me that!). I shouldn't have to beg for
> feedback, but I have!
>
> One example, is a seller sent me some parts that were clearly not
> put in a large enough box. Surprisingly, the parts arrived intact,
> but it was still piss poor shipping and I wanted to state that in
> the feedback. However, I couldn't knowing the seller wouldn't
> leave me feedback first and would definitely give me a negative
> even thought I did everything 100% right. What kind of sense
> does that make for the buyer???
>
> Scott C.
>
> Bobby Conover wrote:
> > In my opinion the buyer has only done 100% of everything right once
> > they leave feedback, at which time the seller should respond in kind.
> > It sucks that it has to be that way, but I've heard of countless cases
> > where buyers have left negative feedback with little-to-no basis for it
> > -- "overcharged" on shipping by $1, item took a week to arrive, item
> > wasn't really what I wanted (even though it was exactly as described in
> > the auction), etc -- these are real examples that I've seen in the
> > past, and they're why I'm one of those sellers that ticks you off by
> > refusing to leave feedback until I've received it. On the flipside,
> > I've never once heard of a seller leaving negative feedback after a
> > buyer has left them positive feedback.
> >
> > I really hate having to take this stance, but it's just my way of
> > protecting myself from a flawed and easily-abused feedback system.
> >
 >> Stay informed about: Time to vent - Brief vent, then back to the games 

/me raises hand

I'm guilty.

But only because I have been slandered in the past by completly
unreasonable buyers that held my feedback hostage as well. It works
both ways guys.

The simple fact is that some people can't be pleased, and some people
are just looking to scam something for free regardless of anything you
do in hopes they will walk away thinking 'this guys alright, I'm just
gonna rip the next one off instead'

The only way out of a hostage crisis is to bargain. So I consider the
action as both parties having a bargaining chip. Each others feedback
is at stake, instead of just one party.

It's actually becoming a mutual silent policy amongst buyers and
sellers. This way both parties *want* (or hopefully do) to try and work
something out before jumping the gun.

What do *I* do with that situation once in it? I try and give the best
reasonable resolution to the issue without losing my own shorts
(assuming i didn't completly screw up and deserve it). And that all
really depends on the situation. I'm a fair guy, so the offer is
usually more then reasonable and the situation is resolved.

In the event that it isn't, it goes both ways. I won't be extorted
either. So go ahead and leave the neg, and I will return it with
something to the effect of 'buyer is unwilling to work things out if
unsatisfied.' and thats reasonable enough.

Sucks. But too many sellers have been burnt just the same.

- Matt

Scott Caldwell wrote:
> I just need to vent for a moment, so everyone look the other
> way...
>
> It really ticks me off that sellers refuse to leave feedback
> for buyers, even when the buyers did 100% of everything right.
> These sellers are either too lazy or they are holding their
> feedback to the seller hostage, so they can blackmail the
> buyer into giving them good feedback. This ultimately
> undermines the ratings system, since sellers can't give
> honest feedback without fear of retaliatory feedback. I
> have two auction like this right now.
>
> Alright, you can look again, since I'm done.
>
> Now, onto the games.
>
> Scott C.
 >> Stay informed about: Time to vent - Brief vent, then back to the games 

I can see it from both points of view. As a new seller on eBay way back
when in 98ish I sold some stuff and left positives as soon as the buyer
completed the transaction by making a payment. Shortly afterwards one of
the buyers neg'd me because of something minor that could have easily been
resolved if he had only asked. After the 3rd time it happened I decided
that I'd had enough and would leave feedback after a sale only after I
received it.

When I buy something and it goes well I always follow up with a positive,
but I'd say only 75% of the sellers follow up. The eBay feedback system is
broken, but since it does not directly increase their revenue stream I doubt
any major changes will occur.

Chris M

<Tmachcinsk.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1158889920.939627.276540@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> I have to agree as a seller I will leave feedback first. As a buyer if
> I pay within minutes of an auction ending my part of the deal is done.
> I have paid quickly while it might take a week or two for me to get my
> item and check it out to make sure it works as described why should I
> leave feedback first when you have had your money and I have completed
> my end of the deal two weeks ago. On the positive side I had to leave
> my first neg in about 5 years. Didnt want to because the seller didnt
> leave feedback but thought it was deserved. The seller email me asking
> about the neg. Emailed him back an explanation. He then refunded some
> of my money asked me to take back my neg and gave me a positive before
> I droped my neg. I would deal with this seller again
> (emtelelectronics) but this is definetly not the norm. Most sellers
> that withhold feedback are holding you hostage. Ted
>
 >> Stay informed about: Time to vent - Brief vent, then back to the games 

As a seller I don't leave it first. Most of the time I get paid
instantly with Paypal. I say to the buyer ok obviously your going to
get good feedback so leave me good feedback and if your not happy then
tell me why and I'll make it right.
 >> Stay informed about: Time to vent - Brief vent, then back to the games 

Unfortunately, I have no recourse for them refusing to leave me
feedback even after I leave them positive feedback. Additionally,
I can't leave negative feedback for them without them leaving it
for me, even though I did everything right! That is the true
flaw in the system. Large sellers have virtually no incentive to
leave "smaller" (less feedback) buyers feedback (I've had a
couple actually tell me that!). I shouldn't have to beg for
feedback, but I have!

One example, is a seller sent me some parts that were clearly not
put in a large enough box. Surprisingly, the parts arrived intact,
but it was still piss poor shipping and I wanted to state that in
the feedback. However, I couldn't knowing the seller wouldn't
leave me feedback first and would definitely give me a negative
even thought I did everything 100% right. What kind of sense
does that make for the buyer???

Scott C.

Bobby Conover wrote:
> In my opinion the buyer has only done 100% of everything right once
> they leave feedback, at which time the seller should respond in kind.
> It sucks that it has to be that way, but I've heard of countless cases
> where buyers have left negative feedback with little-to-no basis for it
> -- "overcharged" on shipping by $1, item took a week to arrive, item
> wasn't really what I wanted (even though it was exactly as described in
> the auction), etc -- these are real examples that I've seen in the
> past, and they're why I'm one of those sellers that ticks you off by
> refusing to leave feedback until I've received it. On the flipside,
> I've never once heard of a seller leaving negative feedback after a
> buyer has left them positive feedback.
>
> I really hate having to take this stance, but it's just my way of
> protecting myself from a flawed and easily-abused feedback system.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Time to vent - Brief vent, then back to the games 

Well said Matty I totaly agree.I had a guy who purchased a small
antique print years ago it only went for I think 10.00 and he left me a
neutral because he thought the item was larger and I didnt represent it
correctly.I told him he should have asked more questions and not expect
allot for next to nothing.I did have the measurements on the add but he
didnt notice them.
On the shipping thing allot of people have a different idea of what a
nicely packaged item looks like just like allot of collectors have a
different idea of what a clean mint arcade game looks like.Some of you
who didnt like how something was shipped well maybee he thought he did
a nice job on it.Bottom line it got to you in one piece, you got the
part you need,leave a good feed back and call it a day.Dont expand so
much energy on something that isnt worth it.Now if you got it damaged
or broken thats a different story.But I to leave feedback after the
buyer recieves his item.I think a trans action isnt complete untill all
partys have there items.Anyway everyone have a nice
weekend.....Later.....Dave


Matty-t wrote:
> /me raises hand
>
> I'm guilty.
>
> But only because I have been slandered in the past by completly
> unreasonable buyers that held my feedback hostage as well. It works
> both ways guys.
>
> The simple fact is that some people can't be pleased, and some people
> are just looking to scam something for free regardless of anything you
> do in hopes they will walk away thinking 'this guys alright, I'm just
> gonna rip the next one off instead'
>
> The only way out of a hostage crisis is to bargain. So I consider the
> action as both parties having a bargaining chip. Each others feedback
> is at stake, instead of just one party.
>
> It's actually becoming a mutual silent policy amongst buyers and
> sellers. This way both parties *want* (or hopefully do) to try and work
> something out before jumping the gun.
>
> What do *I* do with that situation once in it? I try and give the best
> reasonable resolution to the issue without losing my own shorts
> (assuming i didn't completly screw up and deserve it). And that all
> really depends on the situation. I'm a fair guy, so the offer is
> usually more then reasonable and the situation is resolved.
>
> In the event that it isn't, it goes both ways. I won't be extorted
> either. So go ahead and leave the neg, and I will return it with
> something to the effect of 'buyer is unwilling to work things out if
> unsatisfied.' and thats reasonable enough.
>
> Sucks. But too many sellers have been burnt just the same.
>
> - Matt
>
> Scott Caldwell wrote:
> > I just need to vent for a moment, so everyone look the other
> > way...
> >
> > It really ticks me off that sellers refuse to leave feedback
> > for buyers, even when the buyers did 100% of everything right.
> > These sellers are either too lazy or they are holding their
> > feedback to the seller hostage, so they can blackmail the
> > buyer into giving them good feedback. This ultimately
> > undermines the ratings system, since sellers can't give
> > honest feedback without fear of retaliatory feedback. I
> > have two auction like this right now.
> >
> > Alright, you can look again, since I'm done.
> >
> > Now, onto the games.
> >
> > Scott C.
 >> Stay informed about: Time to vent - Brief vent, then back to the games 

> > I really hate having to take this stance, but it's just my way of
> > protecting myself from a flawed and easily-abused feedback system.
> I have to agree with Scott- When I win an auction and pay within 30
> minutes, I am a perfect ebay buyer and should immediately get positive
> feedback; otherwise, it is extortion. There is *zero* basis to leave a
> buyer like that negative feedback, so the seller must be waiting to see
> what feedback they are going to get.

I have to disagree here. I just had a huge fiasco with a guy who paid
'instantly' but then wanted to return the PCB because it had some dust
on it and one of the corners was slightly rounded (like an old baseball
card). He tried to dispute the payment, wanted a refund before he sent
the board back, etc. etc. etc. Luckily this wasn't eBay, but if it was
and I had instantly left him positive after he paid, not only would he
have a positive he didn't deserve (he definitely wasn't a 'good buyer')
but I'm sure he would have given me a negative as well even though I
offered an immedate refund (the guy wasn't reasonable at all, he
eventually sent the PCB back and got a prompt refund but not without
making the situation 10x harder than it needed to be, and my items are
always 'no refund unless DOA' so i really should have told him to cram
it..).

So I never leave positive for buyers until they've left me feedback
first. There are many ways a deal can go bad after money has changed
hands.

= numsix
= http://tac.villagebbs.com [Florida Arcade Collectors]
 >> Stay informed about: Time to vent - Brief vent, then back to the games 

Steve Phillips wrote:
> ...
> Avoid listings with inflated shipping/handling charges...

I've made it a habit of reporting inflated shipping charges for auctions
that I run across. Easy to do, and I'm really sick and tired of $20 s/h
for a postcard-sized items.
 >> Stay informed about: Time to vent - Brief vent, then back to the games 

As far as I am concerned the buyer completes their obligation at the time of
payment. I leave feedback at the same time I send the buyer a 'payment
received' email.

I suppose the closest analogy would be when you go to Macys and buy a suit,
the clerk says thank you when you pay for it, rather than waiting to see
what you tell your family about the suit and the store's service.


--
Art
"Bobby Conover" <bobbyconover.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1158887273.375712.3550@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> In my opinion the buyer has only done 100% of everything right once
> they leave feedback, at which time the seller should respond in kind.
> It sucks that it has to be that way, but I've heard of countless cases
> where buyers have left negative feedback with little-to-no basis for it
> -- "overcharged" on shipping by $1, item took a week to arrive, item
> wasn't really what I wanted (even though it was exactly as described in
> the auction), etc -- these are real examples that I've seen in the
> past, and they're why I'm one of those sellers that ticks you off by
> refusing to leave feedback until I've received it. On the flipside,
> I've never once heard of a seller leaving negative feedback after a
> buyer has left them positive feedback.
>
> I really hate having to take this stance, but it's just my way of
> protecting myself from a flawed and easily-abused feedback system.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Time to vent - Brief vent, then back to the games 

for every one of you're given reasons there are sellers who do the same:
ship the wrong merchandise, take 2 months to ship, etc...

e-bay feedback is broken.

The only way to fix it is to NOT make the feedback public until either both
parties leave feedback or the time allowed for feedback passes....

still, even then there'll be a-holes who give neg's just for the hell of
it... but that's just the way the world is...

"Bobby Conover" <bobbyconover DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1158887273.375712.3550@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> In my opinion the buyer has only done 100% of everything right once
> they leave feedback, at which time the seller should respond in kind.
> It sucks that it has to be that way, but I've heard of countless cases
> where buyers have left negative feedback with little-to-no basis for it
> -- "overcharged" on shipping by $1, item took a week to arrive, item
> wasn't really what I wanted (even though it was exactly as described in
> the auction), etc -- these are real examples that I've seen in the
> past, and they're why I'm one of those sellers that ticks you off by
> refusing to leave feedback until I've received it. On the flipside,
> I've never once heard of a seller leaving negative feedback after a
> buyer has left them positive feedback.
>
> I really hate having to take this stance, but it's just my way of
> protecting myself from a flawed and easily-abused feedback system.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Time to vent - Brief vent, then back to the games