Time for Superhero Creation

I'm really looking for ball-park figures. Mostly the major systems-
Hero, M&M, Marvel, SAS, etc. For example, does it take 5 hours with
Hero, but 1/2 with Marvel? I'm just trying to get a feel for the
complexity and time requirements of the different systems.

Sidhain wrote:
> "Aaron Deskins" <ndeskins DeleteThis @ecn.purdue.edu> wrote in message
> news:408D20D9.9010609@ecn.purdue.edu...
>
>>Hello all,
>> I'm wondering if the knowledgable ones can tell me about how long it
>>takes to create a character with all the different super hero rpg
>>systems out there.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>
>
> Too difficult to gauge actually. Time varies with experience. Some take
> longer than others true, but no one persons experience will be identical to
> another's.
>
>


--
Aaron Deskins
Graduate Student
Chemical Engineering
Purdue University
 >> Stay informed about: Time for Superhero Creation 

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:32:37 GMT, "Sidhain" <sidhain RemoveThis @earthlink.net>
wrote:

>
>"Aaron Deskins" <ndeskins RemoveThis @ecn.purdue.edu> wrote in message
>news:408D20D9.9010609@ecn.purdue.edu...
>> Hello all,
>> I'm wondering if the knowledgable ones can tell me about how long it
>> takes to create a character with all the different super hero rpg
>> systems out there.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>
>Too difficult to gauge actually. Time varies with experience. Some take
>longer than others true, but no one persons experience will be identical to
>another's.
>

And decisiveness on the character creator's part.
 >> Stay informed about: Time for Superhero Creation 

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:46:08 -0500, Aaron Deskins
<ndeskins DeleteThis @ecn.purdue.edu> wrote:

>I'm really looking for ball-park figures. Mostly the major systems-
>Hero, M&M, Marvel, SAS, etc. For example, does it take 5 hours with
>Hero, but 1/2 with Marvel? I'm just trying to get a feel for the
>complexity and time requirements of the different systems.

The problem is, even a ballpark is useless unless you're assuming some
specific level of familiarity with the rules. Worse, it depends in
some cases on the complexity of the character. For example, Hero
allows the most mechanical detail of the above listed most likely
(someone can make an argument about SAS I suppose) but putting
together a simple energy projector for an experienced player isn't
particular long at all. Putting together a really complex concept
with a lot of fussy power limitations and advantages is another story,
though. Some other games this is less true for, either because more
of the system is canned (i.e. predefined) in the first place, or just
because it doesn't support that level of fussiness.
 >> Stay informed about: Time for Superhero Creation 

"Aaron Deskins" <ndeskins.TakeThisOut@ecn.purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:408D20D9.9010609@ecn.purdue.edu...
> Hello all,
> I'm wondering if the knowledgable ones can tell me about how long it
> takes to create a character with all the different super hero rpg
> systems out there.

Thinking time can be minutes, hours, or days, and is independent of the
system used. But I assume you mean number-crunching time. I do the stats for
a Champions character in 10-20 minutes, I think. A Golden Heroes character
used to take me 1-2 minutes (one of the many reasons why GH is the best
superhero system). I can't remember how long a GURPS Supers character took
me but I think it was longer than in Champions.


--
David Meadows
Heroes: www.heroes.force9.co.uk/scripts/
A comic book -- without the pictures
 >> Stay informed about: Time for Superhero Creation 

Wayne Shaw wrote:

>
> The problem is, even a ballpark is useless unless you're assuming some
> specific level of familiarity with the rules. Worse, it depends in
> some cases on the complexity of the character. For example, Hero
> allows the most mechanical detail of the above listed most likely
> (someone can make an argument about SAS I suppose) but putting
> together a simple energy projector for an experienced player isn't
> particular long at all. Putting together a really complex concept
> with a lot of fussy power limitations and advantages is another story,
> though.

A major reason I no longer play Champions is that as I became
more experienced with the rules I kept trying more and more
complex characters. A "simple energy projector" loses some
interest after a while. It was taking me more and more time to
build characters the better I knew the system! Yeah, I could
slap together a cliched brick in a few minutes but to stat
an interesting (to me) character or NPC could take hours and that
was just too much time to devote to each bad guys in a large
villian organization that I'd get to use maybe every four games,
playing a game every other weekend or so.

I eventually hit a similar wall with Aberrant,
but may go back to it.

Marval Saga is still my current pick as it's easy to justify creating
a new power as opposed to tweaking the rules to get something
just right.
 >> Stay informed about: Time for Superhero Creation 

"Sorcier" <sNoErMcOier DeleteThis @cavtel.net> wrote in message
news:nKkjc.88$8M3.30492@news.uswest.net...
>
>
> A major reason I no longer play Champions is that as I became
> more experienced with the rules I kept trying more and more
> complex characters. A "simple energy projector" loses some
> interest after a while. It was taking me more and more time to
> build characters the better I knew the system! Yeah, I could
> slap together a cliched brick in a few minutes but to stat
> an interesting (to me) character or NPC could take hours and that
> was just too much time to devote to each bad guys in a large
> villian organization that I'd get to use maybe every four games,
> playing a game every other weekend or so.

So did I. So I stopped bothering to make that effort. Only stat-out an NPC
if you really really need a fully rounded character. Otherwise you just
need a name (for the big bads) or a number (for a faceless minion) with a
short list of combat stats, attacks and defense.
 >> Stay informed about: Time for Superhero Creation 

I hope Sidhain doesn't mind me posting his reply to me. My follow-up
question would be - is the time of character creation proportional to
the complexity of the game system? How do they compare?

Thanks.


His response:

Ye e-mailed me rather than posting. My numbers are
Hero 2 hours
M&M 15 minutes
SAS 45 minutes
Marvel Saga 5 minutes
MURPG (Stone marvel) no idea
Godlike 1 hour



--
Aaron Deskins
Graduate Student
Chemical Engineering
Purdue University
 >> Stay informed about: Time for Superhero Creation 

Sidhain wrote:
> Too difficult to gauge actually. Time varies with experience. Some take
> longer than others true, but no one persons experience will be identical to
> another's.

One must also be mindful of the fact that the simpler the rules
are, the longer one will be debating the contents of the
character sheet with the GM. So as you simplify the rules, you
tend to prolong the argument-with-the-GM over the permissibility
of the chosen stats - convincing the GM to actually let you
*play* the character you've just created.

--
Peter Knutsen
 >> Stay informed about: Time for Superhero Creation 

"Peter Knutsen" <peter.DeleteThis@knutsen.dk> wrote in message
news:c6ls0u$17n6$1@news.cybercity.dk...
>
> Sidhain wrote:
> > Too difficult to gauge actually. Time varies with experience. Some take
> > longer than others true, but no one persons experience will be identical
to
> > another's.
>
> One must also be mindful of the fact that the simpler the rules
> are, the longer one will be debating the contents of the
> character sheet with the GM. So as you simplify the rules, you
> tend to prolong the argument-with-the-GM over the permissibility
> of the chosen stats - convincing the GM to actually let you
> *play* the character you've just created.
>


I know you think that's true.And it may be for you because you make rules so
important.

For me It's not--I've never had a player debate with me /ever/ and I've
used Risus, and Marvel Saga and OTE and AMBER, among many other rules light
games.

I on the other hand actually talk to my players, I interact with them, I
involve them in the process of the campaign creation rather than hand them a
rulebook and say make something.

..
 >> Stay informed about: Time for Superhero Creation 

Aaron Deskins wrote:
> Hello all,
> I'm wondering if the knowledgable ones can tell me about how long it
> takes to create a character with all the different super hero rpg
> systems out there.
>
> Thanks
>

Depending on system, it can range from about half an hour to a
week. Mostly it depends on the players, their experience with the
system, and the preferences of the GM and players in terms of detail.

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
 >> Stay informed about: Time for Superhero Creation 

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:46:49 -0500, Aaron Deskins
<ndeskins.TakeThisOut@ecn.purdue.edu> wrote:

>Hello all,
> I'm wondering if the knowledgable ones can tell me about how long it
>takes to create a character with all the different super hero rpg
>systems out there.
>
>Thanks

That really depends on the player and the system. I can make a
Champions character faster than I can make a character for any other
system. I know how the rulebook is structured, I know all the powers,
and I know what power levels are effective. 10 minutes, easy. I
would need at least 30 minutes with pretty much any other game system,
as I would have to walk through their character building process (most
have a step by step character building checklist in them).

YMMV, (never have I meant that so much)

John Turner
 >> Stay informed about: Time for Superhero Creation 

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:47:16 -0400, Sorcier <sNoErMcOier.TakeThisOut@cavtel.net>
wrote:

>Wayne Shaw wrote:
>
>>
>> The problem is, even a ballpark is useless unless you're assuming some
>> specific level of familiarity with the rules. Worse, it depends in
>> some cases on the complexity of the character. For example, Hero
>> allows the most mechanical detail of the above listed most likely
>> (someone can make an argument about SAS I suppose) but putting
>> together a simple energy projector for an experienced player isn't
>> particular long at all. Putting together a really complex concept
>> with a lot of fussy power limitations and advantages is another story,
>> though.
>
>A major reason I no longer play Champions is that as I became
>more experienced with the rules I kept trying more and more
>complex characters. A "simple energy projector" loses some

I have that problem these days no matter what game system I'm using to
play supers. It had already reached that point a few years back when
I was MUSHing; barring the one feature character I played, all my
characters were pretty baroque in design. And if the system doesn't
support the distinctions I'm making at least to some degree it tends
to just frustrate me (this was one of my issues with MEGS).

>Marval Saga is still my current pick as it's easy to justify creating
>a new power as opposed to tweaking the rules to get something
>just right.

Of course then you're just creating and (trying) to balance new powers
instead. Not much net gain there.
 >> Stay informed about: Time for Superhero Creation 

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:52:16 +0200, Peter Knutsen <peter DeleteThis @knutsen.dk>
wrote:

>
>Sidhain wrote:
>> Too difficult to gauge actually. Time varies with experience. Some take
>> longer than others true, but no one persons experience will be identical to
>> another's.
>
>One must also be mindful of the fact that the simpler the rules
>are, the longer one will be debating the contents of the
>character sheet with the GM. So as you simplify the rules, you

I realize this is your hotspot Peter, but it's not always true at all.
It may be that the simpler rules simply don't permit things outside
their range.
 >> Stay informed about: Time for Superhero Creation