Tier questions

corection of typo:

There is also epic armor Sets and pieces from
Pvp ranks but they are called Tier sets.>>>>>>>>>





make that "NOT called Tier sets."

dc





"Yelps" <birdsnestsoup DeleteThis @worldya.net> wrote in message
news:IeGdnYgLNpNIS9rZRVn-rA@adelphia.com...
>
> "NarKoMechBass" <NarkoMechBass DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1145557530.670914.106240@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>A SuperUltraIperMega n00b question:
>> i'm in prox of 60, and i would like 2 understand how it works about
>> TIERs... it would be great a website, i'm not asking to write me here
>> ALL the human knowledge about
>> TYTYTYTYTYTYTY!
>
> Tier 0 is the nice blue class sets that drop from UBRS, STRAT, Scholo etc.
> PRE-MC such as Warlocks Dreadmist
>
> Tier 1 is the purple class sets that drop from MC such as the Warlocks
> Felheart set
>
> Tier 2 is the purple class Sets that drop from MC, Onyxia and Black Wing
> Lair such as the Warlock Nemesis Set.
>
> Tier 3 is the purple Class sets that drop from AQ 40. Such as the Warlock
> 5 piece set Doomcaller Set.
>
> Now as of last patch there is a Tier .5 which is an upgrade from Tier 0
> and those you can get in various way....such as the 45 minute Baron run.
> such as the Warlock Deathmist set
>
> I dont know always remember all the other set names for other
> classes ---just Google it for your class.
>
> There is also epic armor Sets and pieces from
> Pvp ranks but they are called Tier sets.
>
>
> dc
>
>
> dc
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Tier questions 

In article <20060420145110.154$GO@newsreader.com>,
Rene <invalid RemoveThis @email.addr> wrote:

> "Yelps" <birdsnestsoup RemoveThis @worldya.net> wrote:
> > "NarKoMechBass" <NarkoMechBass RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1145557530.670914.106240@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > >A SuperUltraIperMega n00b question:
> > > i'm in prox of 60, and i would like 2 understand how it works about
> > > TIERs... it would be great a website, i'm not asking to write me here
> > > ALL the human knowledge about
> > > TYTYTYTYTYTYTY!
> >
> > Tier 0 is the nice blue class sets that drop from UBRS, STRAT, Scholo
> > etc. PRE-MC such as Warlocks Dreadmist
> >
> > Tier 1 is the purple class sets that drop from MC such as the Warlocks
> > Felheart set
> >
> > Tier 2 is the purple class Sets that drop from MC, Onyxia and Black Wing
> > Lair such as the Warlock Nemesis Set.
>
> Right
>
> >
> > Tier 3 is the purple Class sets that drop from AQ 40. Such as the
> > Warlock 5 piece set Doomcaller Set.
> >
>
> That is wrong, I am afraid. T3 is either rumored or expected to appear in
> Naxxramas with patch 1.11. There is currently no T3. The smaller (5 piece)
> set in AQ40 is a non-T2 build replacement. Meaning for priests for example
> the T1 and T2 is geared towards a heal/disc build, while the AQ40 pieces
> are more appealing to a shadow priest. They are "equivalent" to T2 though.
>
> Also since 1.10 you can upgrade your T0 to the T0.5 set.
>
> CU
>
> Rene


Where do the Zul Gurub pieces fit in?

I'm more interested in them than the .5 set, I'm just not that impressed
for the effort involved. Same with the Cenarian Circle pieces, it's just
not worth the grind. The ZG stuff, I just like a whole lot, and learning
the place has been a blast.
 >> Stay informed about: Tier questions 

>The problem occurs that in todays marketing saturated world - everyone
>firmly believes they deserve everything. And that means people who don't
>need top end gear want it regardless and actively pursue a playstyle they do
>not like and which frustrates them, just to get the leet gear.

No, its because that's how Blizzard designed the game. Most people
like to see their character levelling up and going into new areas. You
can do that sub 59 but once you hit 60 the game suddenly changes in
ways some people don't like.

If you want to progress, and most people do, you are forced to chase
after the best gear. And if you don't have it can affect your
enjoyment, ie you can't solo PvE mobs other can do, you get ganked in
PvP with people with way better gear then you. Sub 60 you could just
lvl up and come back. You can't do that at 60. Your only option is to
chase all the best gear. Thus it leads to a lot of frustration.
Blizzard needs to come up with top quality gear that's isn't locked
away in dungeons most people can't get at. Then people will stop
complaining and getting frustrated with the game.
 >> Stay informed about: Tier questions 

>A SuperUltraIperMega n00b question:
> i'm in prox of 60, and i would like 2 understand how it works about
> TIERs... it would be great a website, i'm not asking to write me here
> ALL the human knowledge about
> TYTYTYTYTYTYTY!

Be aware that lusting after leet gear is what leads you down the road to
frustration. The good thing about WoW is that your play style determines
what sort of gear you both need and get. Ie: if you are not hard core, you
don't need hard core gear. If you are hard core, the hard core gear will
naturally come to you.

The problem occurs that in todays marketing saturated world - everyone
firmly believes they deserve everything. And that means people who don't
need top end gear want it regardless and actively pursue a playstyle they do
not like and which frustrates them, just to get the leet gear.

Using world drop items does not make your peeny smaller. Honest.
 >> Stay informed about: Tier questions 

>> If you want to progress, and most people do, you are forced to chase
>> after the best gear. And if you don't have it can affect your
>> enjoyment, ie you can't solo PvE mobs other can do, you get ganked in
>> PvP with people with way better gear then you. Sub 60 you could just
>> lvl up and come back. You can't do that at 60. Your only option is to
>> chase all the best gear. Thus it leads to a lot of frustration.
>> Blizzard needs to come up with top quality gear that's isn't locked
>> away in dungeons most people can't get at. Then people will stop
>> complaining and getting frustrated with the game.

>Wrong. Even twice wrong. First fault: Blizzard has listened to
>the crowd with the tier 0.5 pieces. Second fault: When people
>have the full tier 0.5 set, they'll still look at those players
>with BWL/AQ gear and drool.

Well like you suggested it a good start but it still based on random
drops. And once you got that what next? MC raids are not an option for
most people, so Blizzard needs and alternative that is. Tier 0.5 is a
start but it not the solution.

>I wrote it a hundred times before: Content is not endless. So
>when you hit 60 there are two choices: Either stop playing
>(with that char) or do some pseudo-content that involves
>massively repeated very hard stuff. Epic instances to call it
>by its name.

>Your suggestion is to put "top quality gear" somewhere where
>every casual player can get it. If you mean by "top quality
>gear" stuff like the tier 0.5 sets, see the consequences above.
>People will get it, people will see there's something even
>l33ter, people will want that.

Because that's how the game end game designed. You can't build a
game that designed on getting better gear, which only the minority can
get then complaining when the majority of people get annoyed because
they can't get it.

>If you mean by "top quality gear" equipment like the tier 2/3
>sets from BWL/AQ, then people would not do BWL/AQ anymore.
>They'll go the easy way to assemble the top gear, in only
>a fracture of time. And what when they have it? They cry
>out that there's nothing left to do.

Where did I say it has to be easy to get? Just achievable, and not
based on random drops that require 40 odd people

I'll probably get most of my gear from PvP. It will take a while to
get but it totally achievable if you like PvP. I obviously do. But no
everyone does, so they need an option

I would like to see epic quest line that takes like 100 hours to get
one piece, and involve quest all over the place. You don't have to
make totally new content either. You could send people to the current
dungeons to kill bosses, complete quest lines they quit etc. At the end
of 100 odd hours work there's a guaranteed top whack epic.

As for the BWL etc sets. Well you still could have that as the best.
You need the best gear somewhere. But there's still a too big-a-gap
between that and the none raid stuff. Blizzard need to plug that hole
and make more end game content for everyone and not just the few who
raid BWL etc.
 >> Stay informed about: Tier questions 

"Doppleganger" wrote
> Where do the Zul Gurub pieces fit in?
>
> I'm more interested in them than the .5 set, I'm just not that impressed
> for the effort involved. Same with the Cenarian Circle pieces, it's just
> not worth the grind. The ZG stuff, I just like a whole lot, and learning
> the place has been a blast.

the tier 0, tier0.5 and the AQ40 set are "allround" based IMO. so they fit
best if u PVP much
tier1, tier2 and ZG are more PVE raid based. the ZG setitems are anywhere
between tier 0.5 and tier2 IMO.
For me as a druid (and my playstyle = resto, +healing items > all):
ZG trinket, neck - no comparison as tier dont have trinkets and necks. But
trinket is very usefull and neck isnt (for resto!)
ZG bracers - better then tier0, 0.5 and 1, worse then tier2
ZG breast - better then tier0, 0.5 and 1 worse then tier2
ZG belt - better then tier 0 (dont know tier 0.5 atm , worse then tier1
(and 2 ofc).
 >> Stay informed about: Tier questions 

"BombayMix" <bombaymix.RemoveThis@altavista.co.uk> wrote:

> If you want to progress, and most people do, you are forced to chase
> after the best gear. And if you don't have it can affect your
> enjoyment, ie you can't solo PvE mobs other can do, you get ganked in
> PvP with people with way better gear then you. Sub 60 you could just
> lvl up and come back. You can't do that at 60. Your only option is to
> chase all the best gear. Thus it leads to a lot of frustration.
> Blizzard needs to come up with top quality gear that's isn't locked
> away in dungeons most people can't get at. Then people will stop
> complaining and getting frustrated with the game.

Wrong. Even twice wrong. First fault: Blizzard has listened to
the crowd with the tier 0.5 pieces. Second fault: When people
have the full tier 0.5 set, they'll still look at those players
with BWL/AQ gear and drool.

I wrote it a hundred times before: Content is not endless. So
when you hit 60 there are two choices: Either stop playing
(with that char) or do some pseudo-content that involves
massively repeated very hard stuff. Epic instances to call it
by its name.

Your suggestion is to put "top quality gear" somewhere where
every casual player can get it. If you mean by "top quality
gear" stuff like the tier 0.5 sets, see the consequences above.
People will get it, people will see there's something even
l33ter, people will want that.
If you mean by "top quality gear" equipment like the tier 2/3
sets from BWL/AQ, then people would not do BWL/AQ anymore.
They'll go the easy way to assemble the top gear, in only
a fracture of time. And what when they have it? They cry
out that there's nothing left to do.

By all means, the game *is* over somewhere, and the epic
instances are nothing but a virtual extension of the content,
which is very hard to "finish". That's the whole purpose
of those instances.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (60) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Horace - Demonic Forsaken (36) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Gwaith - Short beastmaster (40) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Maethor - Best friend (39) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
 >> Stay informed about: Tier questions 

"Christian Stauffer" <wildcard666.TakeThisOut@bluewin.ch> wrote in message
news:4448c2e1$0$13566$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch...
> "BombayMix" <bombaymix.TakeThisOut@altavista.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> If you want to progress, and most people do, you are forced to chase
>> after the best gear. And if you don't have it can affect your
>> enjoyment, ie you can't solo PvE mobs other can do, you get ganked in
>> PvP with people with way better gear then you. Sub 60 you could just
>> lvl up and come back. You can't do that at 60. Your only option is to
>> chase all the best gear. Thus it leads to a lot of frustration.
>> Blizzard needs to come up with top quality gear that's isn't locked
>> away in dungeons most people can't get at. Then people will stop
>> complaining and getting frustrated with the game.
>
> Wrong. Even twice wrong. First fault: Blizzard has listened to
> the crowd with the tier 0.5 pieces. Second fault: When people
> have the full tier 0.5 set, they'll still look at those players
> with BWL/AQ gear and drool.
>
> I wrote it a hundred times before: Content is not endless. So
> when you hit 60 there are two choices: Either stop playing
> (with that char) or do some pseudo-content that involves
> massively repeated very hard stuff. Epic instances to call it
> by its name.
>
> Your suggestion is to put "top quality gear" somewhere where
> every casual player can get it. If you mean by "top quality
> gear" stuff like the tier 0.5 sets, see the consequences above.
> People will get it, people will see there's something even
> l33ter, people will want that.
> If you mean by "top quality gear" equipment like the tier 2/3
> sets from BWL/AQ, then people would not do BWL/AQ anymore.
> They'll go the easy way to assemble the top gear, in only
> a fracture of time. And what when they have it? They cry
> out that there's nothing left to do.
>
> By all means, the game *is* over somewhere, and the epic
> instances are nothing but a virtual extension of the content,
> which is very hard to "finish". That's the whole purpose
> of those instances.
>
> Chris


I doubt very much that people are going to stop going to MC, BWL or AQ
because they have the choice to grind solo or in small groups for equivalent
armor, unless they have recognized that the big instances is too schedule
intensive for their lives.

Grinding the rep and getting the gear from factions takes a very long
time, but it is not subject to resetting instances, the necessity of being
in a 40 man raid and following extreme schedules all bunched together.

I don't think it should be easy I just think that it should be possible to
do I also think that Blizzard should set up the game mechanics in such a
way that casual players can go into MC whenever that want to go into MC, by
joing ongoing PUGs ques, that never can have more then 40.

The biggest turnoff for many people is the whole extreme guild thing and all
the drama and stress that happens.

For me I'd like to be able to log on and spend as much time today in BWL or
AQ 40 as I wanted or and return when I want and not be saddled to a guild
schedule. Thats why many people do BG.

dc









>
> --
> [WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (60) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
> Horace - Demonic Forsaken (36) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
> Gwaith - Short beastmaster (40) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
> Maethor - Best friend (39) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
 >> Stay informed about: Tier questions 

"Yelps" <birdsnestsoup DeleteThis @worldya.net> wrote:

> I don't think it should be easy I just think that it should be possible to
> do I also think that Blizzard should set up the game mechanics in such a
> way that casual players can go into MC whenever that want to go into MC, by
> joing ongoing PUGs ques, that never can have more then 40.

> For me I'd like to be able to log on and spend as much time today in BWL or
> AQ 40 as I wanted or and return when I want and not be saddled to a guild
> schedule. Thats why many people do BG.

If MC, BWL, AQ40 were like that - doable by non organised pickup groups,
even when some members stay only 30 minutes or so - they'd have to be
so easy they're no challenge anymore.
*IF* MC/BWL/AQ40 would be changed the way you suggest it, they would
become what Strat/Scholo/UBRS were before 1.10: Spots where you go
with pickup groups to mindlessly right click everything that's red
with little chance of failing.
I don't play MC/BWL/AQ at all, and I most likely never will, but I'd
never want to have those instances changed that way. There are enough
instances that are trivial and doable by pickups at any time of the
day, and it's intended and a good thing that there are instances
which distinct from them.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (60) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Horace - Demonic Forsaken (36) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Gwaith - Short beastmaster (40) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Maethor - Best friend (39) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
 >> Stay informed about: Tier questions 

Christian Stauffer wrote:
> "Yelps" wrote:
>> I don't think it should be easy I just think that it should be
>> possible to do I also think that Blizzard should set up the game
>> mechanics in such a way that casual players can go into MC whenever
>> that want to go into MC, by joing ongoing PUGs ques, that never can
>> have more then 40.

Pickup group MC does exist on my server, much to the amusement
of those of us who have guilds that run it.

>> For me I'd like to be able to log on and spend as much time today in
>> BWL or AQ 40 as I wanted or and return when I want and not be saddled
>> to a guild schedule. Thats why many people do BG.

I would rather deal with a guild schedule than 39 misfits and
ne'er-do-wells. The best fights in MC are ones that depend
on having an appropriate mix of the right types of characters,
and it's really important for them to all know where to stand
and what abilities to use. 40 random people recruited from
IF or Org are almost guaranteed to wipe because the people
who know what to do and are smart enough to do it are already
snapped up by raiding guilds. What you get from your random
PUG is people who don't know what to do or how to work together.

I'm envisioning a Lucifron fight with paladins who consider
themselves to be a DPS class rather than curse removers...

> If MC, BWL, AQ40 were like that - doable by non organised pickup groups,
> even when some members stay only 30 minutes or so - they'd have to be
> so easy they're no challenge anymore.
> *IF* MC/BWL/AQ40 would be changed the way you suggest it, they would
> become what Strat/Scholo/UBRS were before 1.10: Spots where you go
> with pickup groups to mindlessly right click everything that's red
> with little chance of failing.

For what it's worth, before I joined my present guild I went on
several 10 man Strat UD raids that wiped even when it was a
group that should have had all the classes and abilities to
keep the situation under control. A single idiot can blow
everything. PUG MC would just be 40 chances of an idiot
rather than 10 or 5.

> I don't play MC/BWL/AQ at all, and I most likely never will, but I'd
> never want to have those instances changed that way. There are enough
> instances that are trivial and doable by pickups at any time of the
> day, and it's intended and a good thing that there are instances
> which distinct from them.
>
> Chris
>
 >> Stay informed about: Tier questions 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Tier questions 

Nate Engle <nathan_engle.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> writes:
>For what it's worth, before I joined my present guild I went on
>several 10 man Strat UD raids that wiped even when it was a
>group that should have had all the classes and abilities to
>keep the situation under control. A single idiot can blow

It's really easy for things to go to pieces in strat, even with a good
group. Eyes sitting in a place where you can't get to them without aggroing
a big group, fast-moving rovers that seem to almost come out of nowhere,
or someone getting feared at just the wrong moment. All that open space can
be scary.

And then there's scholo - "Oops, sorry, I seem to have aggroed 3
summoners, hope you like skeletons". *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
 >> Stay informed about: Tier questions 

Paul Vader wrote:
> Nate Engle <nathan_engle DeleteThis @yahoo.com> writes:
>>For what it's worth, before I joined my present guild I went on
>>several 10 man Strat UD raids that wiped even when it was a
>>group that should have had all the classes and abilities to
>>keep the situation under control. A single idiot can blow

> It's really easy for things to go to pieces in strat, even with a good
> group. Eyes sitting in a place where you can't get to them without aggroing
> a big group, fast-moving rovers that seem to almost come out of nowhere,
> or someone getting feared at just the wrong moment. All that open space can
> be scary.

Good points. I would also add an observation about the bat
rovers (also seems to apply to ones the eyes summon and ones
that are more sedentary) - very simple observation, saves a
lot of trouble if people heed it: if you stun the bats (or
silence or counter-spell them) they do an AoE fear. It
isn't a huge duration effect - basically just long enough
for some clever dick stun-locking rogue or hammer-of-justice
casting paladin to run out across a plaza and aggro 3 or 5
groups. And of course having aggroed those mobs, do they
have the good graces to stay over there and vanish or just
die so that they don't pull their little friends over to
the rest of the party? Oh no. Stupidity and misery both
love company.

> And then there's scholo - "Oops, sorry, I seem to have aggroed 3
> summoners, hope you like skeletons". *

I've been managing better with summoners in scholo now that
the mage "wandering" sheep bug has been fixed. And now that
I'm playing a priest I think I'm going to really enjoy mind
controlling them.
 >> Stay informed about: Tier questions