Temple of Elemental Evil -- Is it just me or is this game ..

"Zaghadka" wrote
> The documentation seems a little weak, so I'm wondering if I'm just
> missing
> some obvious, but undocumented, tactics. Any help? (Please no spoilers)

It's been a while but IIRC you need to hire the maximum number allowed of
NPC's right away -- was it three? four? can't remember, except that Elmo was
a really good one to have -- or you'll be going nowhere fast in this game.

It sucks, I know, because not only are they not cheap to hire to begin with
but will also take a good chunk of the loot and money after every dang
fight -- very annoying indeed, but that's the only way to survive.

I also found the beginning the hardest part, if it's any consolation, but it
gets somewhat easier towards the middle (I got bored and never actually
finished the game so I don't know what it's like afterwards).
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On Feb 21, 1:53 am, Zaghadka <zagha....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 20 Feb 2007 14:46:56 -0800, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Justisaur wrote:
>
> >On Feb 20, 8:47 am, Zaghadka <zagha....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> I picked this one up a year or so ago on a bargain bin, and just now have
> >> started to give it a try.
>
> >> Wow is it hard! I *thought* I'd try it at the "Ironman" level, but the combats
> >> just don't seem to scale to a "dead is dead" game dynamic. I can't believe the
> >> first few encounters in the first adventure, fighting creatures with special
> >> attacks and twice my hit dice, it's just too easy to get creamed. And that's
> >> just the front walk!
>
> >The game is plenty hard at normal, I never even tried Ironman. What
> >the hell possessed you to do that right out of the box? (and then
> >complain about it)
>
> (*big grin*)
>
> Well, I'm a Nethack fan, and some of my first CRPGs were the Gold Box series
> and Bard's Tale, so I really enjoy the kind of game where the stakes are high,
> and dead is dead. Unfortunately, I think Ironman's included in this game as an
> *afterthought*, and not implemented by design. The encounters indicate that
> it's designed as a "save anywhere" game.
>
> As for the complaint, the combats I ran into were unfair for *any* first level
> party, "Ironman" mode or no. I'm hypercritical of AD&D CRPGs because I run
> face-to-face games. I would be pilloried if I pulled the kinds of stunts Troika
> does in this game.
>
> So after running through the first encounters, and dying for various random,
> unavoidable reasons (and resultingly having to explore, map, and relabel the
> ENTIRE TOWN because a wipe out is a wipe out), I realized that the Ironman mode
> isn't particularly suited to the game, and now I'm enjoying it.
>

Arg. O.K. It's coming back to me, it has been a year or so... I do
remember trying Ironman. And yes, it's unplayable in Ironman.

> And it's still damned hard! <G>
>

Yep. Still not nethack though (although probably comparable in
ironman).

> Spoiler ROT13ed: Ubjrire, vg'f cerggl pyrne gb zr gung Tltnk arire vagraqrq n
> shyy-ba 3eq Rqvgvba bter gb or bar-uvg chycvat lbhe punenpgref jura ur jebgr
> "Gur Ivyyntr bs Ubzzyrg." (Qb bterf ernyyl trg gur Pyrnir srng va 3eq rq.?!)
> Pna'g gryy lbh ubj znal gvzrf V tbg cnfgrq ol gung guvat!
>

Yes, they are quite nasti with big pointy teeth

>
>
> >> I did get everyone better armor, and I know about the "5-foot-step" system to
> >> avoid AoE's, but did I miss something, or is this game just unbelievably hard?
>
> >> The documentation seems a little weak, so I'm wondering if I'm just missing
> >> some obvious, but undocumented, tactics. Any help? (Please no spoilers)
>
> >Probably not. There are a lot of things you can do to make 'better'
> >characters, but similar to PnP there's an awful lot of different ways
> >you can go.
>
> Yeah, I'm doing particularly well putting a Warrior Priest and a dual-wielding
> Rogue in flanking positions and shredding anything in between. I've also got a
> mage with a 16 strength who has put down numerous surprised critters with her
> quarterstaff. This game rewards thinking outside the box, the way the combat
> system in real D&D does. I love that you can trip your opponents to get them
> prone.
>
> I a few complaints, some bugginess and some sadistic design choices, but it's
> the most fun I've had playing an "official" AD&D product since BG II. NWN 2
> doesn't even come close. This is *fun*, once you get the hang of the game's
> quirks.
>

Make sure you have patch 2. I worked on making that patch a bit more
D&D than it was beforehand too. I was just a bugtester but it seemed
like I was finding a ton of them. Unfortunately City of Heroes
sidetracked me or it might have been even better :/

There's an unoffical patch as well, by Circle of eight, There's also
an official patch 3, but apparently it creates more problems than it
fixes (I'm not sure on that). I didn't really care for the Co8 patch
back in the day as it mostly just created more ways to cheat, but it
might have some actual improvements by now.

- Justisaur
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Oh gosh, my beloved TOEE !!! It's quirky, slightly buggy, slows some lack
of polish, but one of my alltime fave crpg's, and definitely under-rated
/ over-bashed.


There are really only 2 crpg's I like.The party-based ones where you meet
depthy pre-built npc's and have them join yer party (BG: Minsc,Jan,Keldorn),
or party-based ones where you can build an assortment from scratch.The latter
+ D&D rules / Forgotten Realms setting solidifies it, meaning it's HARD enough
on medium difficulty.Since the abovementioned latter is so hard on medium,
it's good to create a versatile party with tanks upfront, and nearly everyone
with CON of 14+.Pause & Quicksave often, move around very slowly, strategically,
and use a hi-DEX character (or invisible/shadow-casted one) to creep around
corners / past doors and LURE the baddies out incrementally.Thoughful deep
combative strategy abounds.


Now, the ideal combo is to play the entire IWD saga (Ultimate Collection)
followed up immediately by TOEE... all on the medium difficulty setting.Milk
those games, as they are classics, over a 3-6 month period.

Some feel they are simply carrying around bags of stats, but such cynicism
can be avoided.These are characters we've created, without elaborate voice
tracks, history and programmed dialogue, but they are certainly characters.It's
not too often (actually never) we have dialogue scripts for the main/central
character we create from scratch for ourselves in BG, KOTOR, Gothic or Morrowind,
and yet we certainly don't consider those primary characters we name after
ourselves and create/develop from scratch merely "bags of stats" being lugged
around.With some genuine, deep, distinctive creativity, you can create a
cast of characters so individually unique and with such collective synergy/chemistry,
that it actually surpasses any crpg experience in regards to party combative
depth and unlimited control/manipulation OF those individual created characters
(contrasted w the part in BG2 when lil gnome Jan had to leave for a few days
due to personal reasons).Less pre-programmed history & dialogue = more universal
party control/manipulation.

OTOH, I am looking forward to DragonAge, Drakensang and The Broken Hourglass
for the pre-built NPC's/hirelings/henchmen, but always a special place in
my Omnibokian heart will be the greatest *CYOPFS-CRPG's of all time... TOEE
and IWD, rated by me, Omnibok, 8.6/10 and 9.0/10 respectively !



[ *Create-Your-Own-Party-From-Scratch ]
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