How not to Taxi and or land-

On 5/16/2008 12:33 PM, Bill went clickity clack on the keyboard and
produced this interesting bit of text:
> http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/05/15/vo.plane.lands.on.plane.wfaa

I have only one word about this: Oops!

--
Rule of Acquisition number 194: It's always good to know about new
customers before they walk in your door.
 >> Stay informed about: How not to Taxi and or land- 

On Fri, 16 May 2008 15:33:52 -0400, Bill wrote:

> http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/05/15/vo.plane.lands.on.plane.wfaa

The news media always gets it wrong... :- (

"A plane was taxiing into position for takeoff at a Texas airport when
another aircraft landed on top of it."

They're 1/4 of the way down the runway! The stupid red airplane was half
way through his take off roll when the high wing landed on him.

The high wing was lucky he didn't get a prop in his face.

Those both look like nice little aircraft, it's a shame they messed them
up.



--
Dallas
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"Bill" <someone DeleteThis @home.net> wrote in message
news:1klXj.5779$255.5669@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
> http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/05/15/vo.plane.lands.on.plane.wfaa
>
> Was that you Dallas?
>
> Bill

This happened at an airport I used to fly out of quite often. It's a VERY
busy uncontrolled field that gets more traffic than most controlled fields.
 >> Stay informed about: How not to Taxi and or land- 

On Fri, 16 May 2008 20:17:08 GMT, Mike wrote:

> This happened at an airport I used to fly out of quite often. It's a VERY
> busy uncontrolled field that gets more traffic than most controlled fields.

Ah.. I guess I was there on a slow day.
--
Dallas
 >> Stay informed about: How not to Taxi and or land- 

"Dallas" <Cybnorm.RemoveThis@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:gn0x3jetxuqm$.1octs4ua075ky.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 15:33:52 -0400, Bill wrote:
>
>> http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/05/15/vo.plane.lands.on.plane.wfaa
>
> The news media always gets it wrong... :- (
>
> "A plane was taxiing into position for takeoff at a Texas airport when
> another aircraft landed on top of it."
>
> They're 1/4 of the way down the runway! The stupid red airplane was half
> way through his take off roll when the high wing landed on him.
>
> The high wing was lucky he didn't get a prop in his face.
>
> Those both look like nice little aircraft, it's a shame they messed them
> up.
>
>
I know I'm guessing here, but 1/4 down the RW, wouldn't that be about the
stopping distance for the landing plane, using the red one for landing gear?

OK the red plane might not have been at 0 kts at impact, but I don't think
they made a dead stop right at impact, but skated a few yards down the RW
before stopping, otherwise at least one of them would have been more damaged
than the footage shows?

Just my 2 cents worth of guessing /

Any words on casualties? Both planes looks fairly intact, suggesting that
every one could have walked away with only a surprised look on their faces?

Tommy C, Denmark
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"TOCA" <Not.TakeThisOut@valid.com> wrote in message
news:482e086c$0$56772$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
>
> "Dallas" <Cybnorm.TakeThisOut@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:gn0x3jetxuqm$.1octs4ua075ky.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 15:33:52 -0400, Bill wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/05/15/vo.plane.lands.on.plane.wfaa
>>
>> The news media always gets it wrong... :- (
>>
>> "A plane was taxiing into position for takeoff at a Texas airport when
>> another aircraft landed on top of it."
>>
>> They're 1/4 of the way down the runway! The stupid red airplane was half
>> way through his take off roll when the high wing landed on him.
>>
>> The high wing was lucky he didn't get a prop in his face.
>>
>> Those both look like nice little aircraft, it's a shame they messed them
>> up.
>>
>>
> I know I'm guessing here, but 1/4 down the RW, wouldn't that be about the
> stopping distance for the landing plane, using the red one for landing
> gear?

Landing north, that particular runway has a displaced threshold with trees
very close to the end of the runway. It would have been all but impossible
for the Cherokee to land on the Stinson unless the Stinson was on his
takeoff roll.


>
> OK the red plane might not have been at 0 kts at impact, but I don't think
> they made a dead stop right at impact, but skated a few yards down the RW
> before stopping, otherwise at least one of them would have been more
> damaged than the footage shows?
>
> Just my 2 cents worth of guessing /
>
> Any words on casualties? Both planes looks fairly intact, suggesting that
> every one could have walked away with only a surprised look on their
> faces?

I heard one of the three people involved had minor injuries.
 >> Stay informed about: How not to Taxi and or land- 

On Sat, 17 May 2008 00:19:33 +0200, TOCA wrote:

> I know I'm guessing here, but 1/4 down the RW, wouldn't that be about the
> stopping distance for the landing plane, using the red one for landing gear?

It's always the same story. The high wing Stinson didn't see the Piper on
base/final because the high wing blocked his view (and he didn't do a
clearing turn).

The Piper likely saw him doing his run up and was unconcerned. (The Piper
has the right-of-way at this point because he's on final.) The Piper turns
final to land. The Stinson, never seeing the Piper thinks he's clear and
takes the runway and pushes the throttle full forward for take off.

The Piper can't see the Stinson under his nose and proceeds to execute a
normal landing.

Meanwhile the Stinson is under him accelerating for take off. Suddenly the
Stinson hears an engine and sees an airplane crush him from above. Both of
them are about the same speed when this happens, so they just coast down
the runway to a stop on top of each other.

At this poignant moment the Stinson pilot realizes that he might be smart
enough to make enough money to buy an airplane, and get a pilot's licence,
but he was stupid enough to forget the basic procedures for taking off at
an uncontrolled airport and he was responsible for two smashed up
airplanes.

It would be the same thing as coming up on an intersection in a car with
your eyes closed and hoping you make it through.



--
Dallas
 >> Stay informed about: How not to Taxi and or land- 

Hi Dallas,
The same thing almost happened to me once. I was on short final to an
uncontrolled airport. I had been making all of my position calls, and on
final I noticed a Rutan Vari-Eze holding at the taxiway to the runway that I
was landing on. Then, about 20 seconds before I touched down, the Vari-Eze
taxiied right out in front of me and took the runway! Needless to say, I was
busy for the next few minutes going around. It turns out that the pilot in
the Vari-Eze was using the wrong CTAF frequency. He was making all of his
radio calls, which I never heard, and I was making all of my radio calls,
which he never heard. He finally got the CTAF frequency straightened out,
and called to apologize. It's too bad that he never bothered to check for
traffic visually before he took the runway though. To this day it is a
mystery to me how anyone flying a mid-wing aircraft like the Vari-Eze could
fail to look down the approach corridor of a runway with their eyeballs
before taxiing onto a runway. It's not like I was in his blind spot. That is
a big reason why I feel much more comfortable flying into and out of
controlled airfields that have TRACON.

Randy L.

--
Remember: Any landing that you can walk away from,
is a landing that you can be fined, sued, or prosecuted for.

"Dallas" <Cybnorm RemoveThis @spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:7q9wn5zpdp5e.1qnyr1opn8el3.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 15:33:52 -0400, Bill wrote:
>
>> Was that you Dallas?
>
> Ha... No I'm not a stupid pilot.
>
> The NTSB report will always fault the pilots for poor communications and
> not clearing the airspace.
>
> The guy in the high wing on the ground should have cleared the pattern by
> making a 180°turn before taking the runway.
>
> I've flown at that airport and because it's slow and sleepy sometimes the
> pilots just assume that it's clear and don't make position calls. DOH!
>
> --
> Dallas
 >> Stay informed about: How not to Taxi and or land- 

You sure can tell it's spring.

Wonder what the babies will look like


"Bill" <someone.RemoveThis@home.net> wrote in message
news:1klXj.5779$255.5669@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
> http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/05/15/vo.plane.lands.on.plane.wfaa
>
> Was that you Dallas?
>
> Bill
>
 >> Stay informed about: How not to Taxi and or land- 

Dallas wrote:

> The guy in the high wing on the ground should have cleared the
> pattern by making a 180°turn before taking the runway.

He should have sat at the hold point and visually checked the final
approach for traffic before even entering the runway, and once he
entered, he should have departed without delay.
Having said that, the low wing guy that landed on him should have gone
around. Can't possibly imaging how neither of them saw each other.

--
Crash Lander
Some people say I suffer from A.D.D. but they.... OH look!! A chicken!!
http://www.straightandleveldownunder.net
 >> Stay informed about: How not to Taxi and or land- 

TOCA wrote:

> Any words on casualties? Both planes looks fairly intact, suggesting
> that every one could have walked away with only a surprised look on
> their faces?

Reports here say no injuries.

--
Crash Lander
Some people say I suffer from A.D.D. but they.... OH look!! A chicken!!
http://www.straightandleveldownunder.net
 >> Stay informed about: How not to Taxi and or land- 

"RandyL" <rlink.TakeThisOut@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:ir6dnWcZepoIT7PVnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Hi Dallas,
> The same thing almost happened to me once. I was on short final to an
> uncontrolled airport. I had been making all of my position calls, and on
> final I noticed a Rutan Vari-Eze holding at the taxiway to the runway that
> I was landing on. Then, about 20 seconds before I touched down, the
> Vari-Eze taxiied right out in front of me and took the runway! Needless to
> say, I was busy for the next few minutes going around. It turns out that
> the pilot in the Vari-Eze was using the wrong CTAF frequency. He was
> making all of his radio calls, which I never heard, and I was making all
> of my radio calls, which he never heard. He finally got the CTAF frequency
> straightened out, and called to apologize. It's too bad that he never
> bothered to check for traffic visually before he took the runway though.
> To this day it is a mystery to me how anyone flying a mid-wing aircraft
> like the Vari-Eze could fail to look down the approach corridor of a
> runway with their eyeballs before taxiing onto a runway. It's not like I
> was in his blind spot. That is a big reason why I feel much more
> comfortable flying into and out of controlled airfields that have TRACON.

The accident mentioned by the OP is on an airport that falls under the veil
of a TRACON and it didn't help any. Towers help tremendously for busy
airports, but controllers can still kill you. See and avoid is still the
rule at VFR towered fields.
 >> Stay informed about: How not to Taxi and or land- 

"Mike" <nospam RemoveThis @microsoft.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:mgoXj.1241$dh.226@trnddc05...
>
> Landing north, that particular runway has a displaced threshold with trees
> very close to the end of the runway. It would have been all but
> impossible for the Cherokee to land on the Stinson unless the Stinson was
> on his takeoff roll.
>
>
Sounds about right, they must both have been at about the same speed, at
impact, or one of them would have been more damaged /

Imagine all the things that had to fit here, for this accident not to be
fatal, or not happening at all /

Had one of the two pilots been just 2 seconds late, it would have been a
whole different story, 25 seconds and nothing would have happened. I know,
the difference between accidents and nothing unusual is a split second
decision /

But I'm still a bit freaked out about the look of it, theoretically it is
not possible to do this, only thing missing from making it totally freaked,
would have been for the Cherokee to stand on its wheels on top of the red
planes wings )

Tommy C, Denmark
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