Looking for new Talents

Rob Kelk wrote:
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> Now that the 4e Basic Set has been out for a while, I assume people
> have been playing with the system... I'm curious as to what new
> Talents folks have come up with for their own games, to add to the
> lists from Fantasy, Banestorm, and Space.
>
> I only have one homemade Talent, myself:
> "Light-Fingered Gentry". Acting, Disguise, Filch, Pickpocket, Holdout,
> and Observation. Reaction bonus: other pick-pockets, unless the talent
> is used on them. 5 points/level.
>
> Any others?
>
> - --
>
> Rob Kelk Personal address (ROT-13): eboxryx -ng- tznvy -qbg- pbz
> "As far as Doug is concerned, "dignity" is just a tragic disease that
> other people suffer from."
> - Bob Schroeck, talking about his V&V character, 15 March 2005
>
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How about: "FAME"? Gets one additional experience point per Adventure
segment over &
above the awards of other player characters. (( Many of the
"Reputation" & "Wealth" &
"Contacts" & etc. need a concrete award system.))>>>>>
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for new Talents 

On 17 Jul 2006 06:58:59 -0700, "Elvis" <esviesso DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>How about: "FAME"? Gets one additional experience point per Adventure
>segment over &
>above the awards of other player characters.

Why?
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for new Talents 

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On 17 Jul 2006 06:58:59 -0700, "Elvis" <esviesso.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Rob Kelk wrote:
>>
>> Now that the 4e Basic Set has been out for a while, I assume people
>> have been playing with the system... I'm curious as to what new
>> Talents folks have come up with for their own games, to add to the
>> lists from Fantasy, Banestorm, and Space.
>>
>> I only have one homemade Talent, myself:
>> "Light-Fingered Gentry". Acting, Disguise, Filch, Pickpocket,
>> Holdout, and Observation. Reaction bonus: other pick-pockets,
>> unless the talent is used on them. 5 points/level.
>>
>> Any others?
>
>How about: "FAME"? Gets one additional experience point per Adventure
>segment over &
>above the awards of other player characters. (( Many of the
>"Reputation" & "Wealth" &
>"Contacts" & etc. need a concrete award system.))>>>>>

Another character in the same game has Handsome Appearance, Fashion
Sense, Smooth Operator Talent +2, and Voice - his "over and above" from
all those social advantages is a small but influential set of
met-in-game NPCs who are willing to do him favours. He hardly needs
extra character points.

(I suppose you could say that in a way he is getting extra character
points, but is being forced to spend them all on Contacts...)

- --
Rob Kelk Personal address (ROT-13): eboxryx -ng- tznvy -qbg- pbz
"As far as Doug is concerned, "dignity" is just a tragic disease that
other people suffer from."
- Bob Schroeck, talking about his V&V character, 15 March 2005

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 >> Stay informed about: Looking for new Talents 

On 2006-07-17, Elvis <esviesso DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
> How about: "FAME"? Gets one additional experience point per Adventure
> segment over &
> above the awards of other player characters.

To make it equitable, it's a zero-cost feature with an ongoing cost of
one character point per adventure segment? What's the point of creating
something that a) everyone will have (why not just increase your
awards?) or b) nobody will have (why spend the time/energy?)

(and to be pedantic, this isn't a talent, but an advantage--and I would
probably require an unusual background to explain why you're
learning/training faster than everyone else)

> (( Many of the
> "Reputation" & "Wealth" &
> "Contacts" & etc. need a concrete award system.))>>>>>

Reputation concrete reward: bonus/penalty on your reaction rolls
Wealth concrete reward: more nifty equipment
Contacts concrete reward: someone with skills you can request assistance
from

--
Christopher Nelson -- chris DeleteThis @cavein.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
(null cookie; hope that's ok)
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for new Talents 

Christopher Nelson wrote:
> On 2006-07-17, Elvis <esviesso RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> <snip>
> > How about: "FAME"? Gets one additional experience point per Adventure
> > segment over &
> > above the awards of other player characters.
>
> To make it equitable, it's a zero-cost feature with an ongoing cost of
> one character point per adventure segment? What's the point of creating
> something that a) everyone will have (why not just increase your
> awards?) or b) nobody will have (why spend the time/energy?)
>
> (and to be pedantic, this isn't a talent, but an advantage--and I would
> probably require an unusual background to explain why you're
> learning/training faster than everyone else)
>
> > (( Many of the
> > "Reputation" & "Wealth" &
> > "Contacts" & etc. need a concrete award system.))>>>>>

"More nifty equipment" is not the same as more experience points!
TAHNX FOR THE REPLIES ON "FAME" though!
>
> Reputation concrete reward: bonus/penalty on your reaction rolls
> Wealth concrete reward: more nifty equipment
> Contacts concrete reward: someone with skills you can request assistance
> from
>
> --
> Christopher Nelson -- chris RemoveThis @cavein.org
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> (null cookie; hope that's ok)
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for new Talents 

Rob Kelk wrote:
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> Now that the 4e Basic Set has been out for a while, I assume people
> have been playing with the system... I'm curious as to what new
> Talents folks have come up with for their own games, to add to the
> lists from Fantasy, Banestorm, and Space.
>
> I only have one homemade Talent, myself:
> "Light-Fingered Gentry". Acting, Disguise, Filch, Pickpocket, Holdout,
> and Observation. Reaction bonus: other pick-pockets, unless the talent
> is used on them. 5 points/level.
>
> Any others?
>
I pretty much just let player do their own custom ones to get bonuses
in the skills they want, although I require a theme for the talent and
not just a list of the top skills they want to be good at.
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for new Talents 

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On 24 Jul 2006 15:42:20 -0700, "Scooter the Mighty"
<Greyguy3 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

>Rob Kelk wrote:
>>
>> Now that the 4e Basic Set has been out for a while, I assume people
>> have been playing with the system... I'm curious as to what new
>> Talents folks have come up with for their own games, to add to the
>> lists from Fantasy, Banestorm, and Space.
>>
>> I only have one homemade Talent, myself:
>> "Light-Fingered Gentry". Acting, Disguise, Filch, Pickpocket,
>> Holdout, and Observation. Reaction bonus: other pick-pockets,
>> unless the talent is used on them. 5 points/level.
>>
>> Any others?
>>
>I pretty much just let player do their own custom ones to get bonuses
>in the skills they want, although I require a theme for the talent and
>not just a list of the top skills they want to be good at.

Sounds good to me. Are any of them good enough to share?

- --
Rob Kelk Personal address (ROT-13): eboxryx -ng- tznvy -qbg- pbz
"As far as Doug is concerned, "dignity" is just a tragic disease that
other people suffer from."
- Bob Schroeck, talking about his V&V character, 15 March 2005

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 >> Stay informed about: Looking for new Talents 

Rob Kelk wrote:
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> On 24 Jul 2006 15:42:20 -0700, "Scooter the Mighty"
> <Greyguy3.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Rob Kelk wrote:
> >>
> >> Now that the 4e Basic Set has been out for a while, I assume people
> >> have been playing with the system... I'm curious as to what new
> >> Talents folks have come up with for their own games, to add to the
> >> lists from Fantasy, Banestorm, and Space.
> >>
> >> I only have one homemade Talent, myself:
> >> "Light-Fingered Gentry". Acting, Disguise, Filch, Pickpocket,
> >> Holdout, and Observation. Reaction bonus: other pick-pockets,
> >> unless the talent is used on them. 5 points/level.
> >>
> >> Any others?
> >>
> >I pretty much just let player do their own custom ones to get bonuses
> >in the skills they want, although I require a theme for the talent and
> >not just a list of the top skills they want to be good at.
>
> Sounds good to me. Are any of them good enough to share?
>
Sure. I'm not sure off-hand if some of these don't overlap with ones
already in the book.

Solider Talent: Axe/mace, Riding, Bow, Tactics, Strategy, Hiking

Performer: Performance, Singing, Musical Instrument, Dancing, Acting,
Public Speaking

Shady character: Gambling, carousing, Sleight of Hand, Pick Pocket,
Streetwise, Holdout.
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for new Talents 

Rob Kelk wrote:
[...]
> Any others?

One that seems obvious to me is Warlord: Bonus to Tactics, Strategy,
Leadership and Intelligence Analysis.

--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for new Talents 

Scooter the Mighty wrote:
> Sure. I'm not sure off-hand if some of these don't overlap with ones
> already in the book.
>
> Solider Talent: Axe/mace, Riding, Bow, Tactics, Strategy, Hiking

Illegal. Also if you are going to go that route, why not Camouflage?

> Performer: Performance, Singing, Musical Instrument, Dancing, Acting,
> Public Speaking
>
> Shady character: Gambling, carousing, Sleight of Hand, Pick Pocket,
> Streetwise, Holdout.

These may be good, but I'd have to go through the skill list to make
sure there aren't any skills missing which ought to be there. The
problem with player built Talents is that some players include only the
skills they want for their specific characters, without worrying
dilligently about what *other* skills ought to be included.

--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for new Talents 

Peter Knutsen (usenet) wrote:
> Scooter the Mighty wrote:
> > Sure. I'm not sure off-hand if some of these don't overlap with ones
> > already in the book.
> >
> > Sold[i]er Talent: Axe/mace, Riding, Bow, Tactics, Strategy, Hiking
>
> Illegal. Also if you are going to go that route, why not Camouflage?

Sure, it's illegal by the book rules to have weapon talents. But
Scooter already said he does it differently. IMO it's as logical to
have an intuition for e.g. blades (vs. just an all-around good DX) as
for acrobatics.

I do agree that Camouflage would fit in well with the Soldier talents,
and I'm not sure axe/mace and bow fit in well thematically with the
IQ-based Tactics/Strategy (maybe the talent should be priced at
10/level).

~Maximilian
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for new Talents 

Max Wilson wrote:
> Peter Knutsen (usenet) wrote:
>>Scooter the Mighty wrote:
>>>Sure. I'm not sure off-hand if some of these don't overlap with ones
>>>already in the book.
>>>
>>>Sold[i]er Talent: Axe/mace, Riding, Bow, Tactics, Strategy, Hiking
>>
>>Illegal. Also if you are going to go that route, why not Camouflage?
>
> Sure, it's illegal by the book rules to have weapon talents. But
> Scooter already said he does it differently. IMO it's as logical to

I must have overlooked that statement.

> have an intuition for e.g. blades (vs. just an all-around good DX) as
> for acrobatics.

I disagree about the logicality of most such intuitions, but this
discussion is not about the appropriateness of the GURPS 4E Talent mechanic.

As for the ban on weapon talents, I tend to agree that it does not make
much sense. From a game balance perspective, it is a mistake to ignore
the fact that the alternative to allowing Weapon Talents is for players
to raise DX, which gives a bonus not only to weapon skills but also to
physical non-combat skills. I do think that Talents for specific weapons
should be avoided. One should instead go with Talents for weapon types,
e.g. Melee Weapons, Thrown Weapons and so forth.

> I do agree that Camouflage would fit in well with the Soldier talents,
> and I'm not sure axe/mace and bow fit in well thematically with the
> IQ-based Tactics/Strategy (maybe the talent should be priced at
> 10/level).

I've sometimes thought about revising the Talent mechanic altogether, so
that instead of all skills being treated equally, broad skills count
double (e.g. skills with required specializations). Combat skills could
also count double. And to make the system more fine-grained, one could
get rid of the pentophilic cost system and instead charge 6, 9, 12 or 15
character points per level of Talent, depending on how many skills it
contains.

IIRC, the official rules are that a Talent of up to 6 skills costs 5 CPs
per level, but if there are 7 or more skills (IIRC up to 12), it costs
10 CPs per level. Therefore players will frequently think up Talents
which should reasonably contain 7 skills, but then feel a strong (and
justified!) urge to remove just one skill so that they can get to pay
the lower cost, even if the deleted skill fits thematically.

If one makes the system more fine-grained, one reduces the frequency of
such occurences.

--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for new Talents 

Tried to reference Talents in 4e Basic Set and didn't come up with
anything. Where is this mentioned?

Also- For Guns, the Guns(pistol) Guns (rifle) familiarity rules covers
picking up various types and being able to use them without penalty.
I usually break that into Pistols(revolvers) vs Pistols(automatics) and
likewise with Rifles(semiautomatics) Rifles(lever) Rifles(pump)
Rifles(bolt action). Personal experience tells me that it takes a little
time to figure out the operation, but the acquire-target/aim/fire
routine is pretty much identical. There is, of course, the philosophical
discussion among shooters of whether you look where you shoot, or shoot
where you look.

From looking over the thread, Talents seem to be a way of introducing
classes back into the game. If one is a Soldier then x-y-z are
automatically a part of the skill set. I would tend to greatly
discourage this. It results in the creation of generic characters,
different only by name.

In 3e, in my fantasy campaign, I had already noticed a tendency for all
the fighters to end up with Combat Reflexes, High Pain Threshold,
Ambidexterity, Knife, Broadsword, Axe/Mace, Bow, Fast Draw(Sword),
FD(hafted weapons), FD(arrow), Staff, & Spear. I would not consider the
combined attributes and skill set as a Fighter Talent, as much as a
person learning the tools of his trade. But, thats my opinion, YMMV.
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for new Talents