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TR underworld my first impression

 
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Erik Steffl

External


Since: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 119



(Msg. 46) Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:54 pm
Post subject: Re: TR underworld my first impression [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>games>tombraider (more info?)

Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:
> On Nov 21, 3:05�am, Erik Steffl <ste....TakeThisOut@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>> � �what do you guys think?
>>
>> � � � � erik
>
> Yeah, I know, it's been a while, but here I am. To answer your
> question:
>
>
> Cons:
>
> 1. Glass walls definitely encountered. Apparently, this was a rush
> job and they didn't bother to figure out exactly the shape of each
> object encountered. Bad.

yeah, that's really sad,

> 2. At Lara "close up and personal", when she's facing the camera and
> in a tight spot or up close to the wall, the camera got a bit shaky.
> This really throws off one's perspective. Also bad.
>
> 3. McG: In terms of "collision detection", I see her sometimes
> standing off the ground about four inches, and sometimes I see her
> standing with her legs sunk into the ground up to her ankles. Mildly
> annoying, but there you are.

it's not perfect but TRU is by far the most amazingly connected (lara
to environment), grabbing things, climbing, walking/jumping over things
etc. is very precise with lot of animations supporting different
environment and objects. Not sure which other game to compare it to but
compared to previous TRs (incuding TRA) this is a HUGE jump (just watch
closely the little cracks in ledges)

> 4. Gone is the "jump-and-shoot" evasive maneuver. A pity. I liked
> that one.

it's there! you can jump and shoot all you want, that's the only way
to do any of the "floor routine" tricks. Or are you talking about some
very specific move?

> 5. This one also doesn't have the "kick-and-shoot" maneuver. I liked
> that one as well.

hey TR is not supposed to have kicks! none of the REAL TRs had any
kicks...

> 6. Where's the orientation button!?

what's orientation? you mean turn lara around? you can do it with
gamepad (turn her standing in one spot)

> 7. Not quite as smooth at times in the animation. I felt like I was
> watching "NFL Live Super Slo Mo" video; the kind that jerks a little
> at full speed.
>
> 8. Sorry, I'm still old school. I still prefer the all-keyboard
> system. Oh, well...

yes but the gamepad control system is really good for what it is

> 9. Not all the "extra" weapons are accessible. You have to choose
> one weapon and hope that it works for the scenario you're involved
> in. Bad.

you are supposed to use pistols! was that a trick question? Wink

> 10. Sorry, but "relics" and "treasures" don't mean balls and duo-
> decahedrons. Let's try that again, shall we?

yeah, another sad unfinished/ignored part, there should be something
there that rewards player (immediately or almost immediately)

> 11. Medipaks do not restore full health. I preferred the older way
> of doing things, when full medipaks restored full health and smaller
> medikits restored partial health, but that's just me.

given how easy the game is this seems irrelevant but yeah,

> Pros:
>
> 1. More exploration, more randomness in the level mission designs.
> Sure, there's some linear progression, but it's not all linear. I
> like this.
>
> 2. My computer handled the graphics well. I had been concerned
> because the recommended card was the 8800GT or equivalent, and all I
> had was an 8600GTX. Also a plus.
>
> 3. The environment was well detailed and vast when it needed to be.
> Good job there.

specially detailed, IMO they did a pretty good job at that, both
technology and level design,

> 4. The "chimney climb" was new, and that did make things
> interesting. However, I'm not sure that kind of maneuver can be done
> in the real world. It's probably nothing...

see jackie chan movies Smile

> 5. The "last second move" makes for interesting drama. I'm kinda
> neutral about that, though.

the slow motion? not bad, it's used fairly well IMO (not too much and
in places where it makes sense)

> 6. The improved, easy to use acrobatics makes things more accessible.
>
> 7. You can choose different outfits, limited only to what would be
> considered appropriate for the scenario. I would have preferred to
> have all the outfits available, but this is a good start.
>
> 8. Medipaks visually were replaced by some rather interesting looking
> objects appropriate to the scenario. Give 'em points for orginality.

only you never know what you picked up Smile

> Concentrating only on the mission objectives, I completed the game in
> three days and three hours. After completion, there is a "treasure
> hunt" phase that will allow you to grab all the items that you missed
> without actually having to achieve the scenario objective again. It's
> probably going to take me some time to get them all. There is also a
> redesign of the unlockable content. I don't exactly know how that
> works, though.
>
> Overall, I consider this a big improvement.

did you have any crashes/reboots while playing the game?

erik

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Zoot

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Since: Nov 02, 2008
Posts: 14



(Msg. 47) Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:47 am
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>> 6. Where's the orientation button!?
>
> what's orientation? you mean turn lara around? you can do it with
> gamepad (turn her standing in one spot)


Camera orientation - make the camera point where you want. TRA has it, TRL
has it, TRU does not. Sucks.

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Erik Steffl

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Since: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 119



(Msg. 48) Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:47 am
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Zoot wrote:
>>> 6. Where's the orientation button!?
>> what's orientation? you mean turn lara around? you can do it with
>> gamepad (turn her standing in one spot)
>
>
> Camera orientation - make the camera point where you want. TRA has it, TRL
> has it, TRU does not. Sucks.

what do you mean? camera is controlled with right joystick, points
whereever you want it to, I don't see any difference between TRL, TRA,
TRU in this area,

are you talking about keyboard/mouse control?

erik
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McG.

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Since: Nov 12, 2008
Posts: 67



(Msg. 49) Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:02 am
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"Erik Steffl"


>> 8. Sorry, I'm still old school. I still prefer the all-keyboard
>> system. Oh, well...
>
> yes but the gamepad control system is really good for what it is
>

NOT if that control system is borked for keyboard only use!!!!!
McG.
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McG.

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Since: Nov 12, 2008
Posts: 67



(Msg. 50) Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:03 am
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"Erik Steffl" <steffl RemoveThis @bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:TNidnZ-If6sK8bPUnZ2dnUVZ_qTinZ2d@posted.rawbandwidth...
> Zoot wrote:
>>>> 6. Where's the orientation button!?
>>> what's orientation? you mean turn lara around? you can do it with
>>> gamepad (turn her standing in one spot)
>>
>>
>> Camera orientation - make the camera point where you want. TRA has it,
>> TRL has it, TRU does not. Sucks.
>
> what do you mean? camera is controlled with right joystick, points
> whereever you want it to, I don't see any difference between TRL, TRA, TRU
> in this area,
>
> are you talking about keyboard/mouse control?

BINGO! No gamepad (no x64 drivers for it!!!) so it's keyboard/rat.
McG.

>
> erik
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Erik Steffl

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Since: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 119



(Msg. 51) Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:26 am
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Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

McG. wrote:
> "Erik Steffl"
>
>
>>> 8. Sorry, I'm still old school. I still prefer the all-keyboard
>>> system. Oh, well...
>> yes but the gamepad control system is really good for what it is
>>
>
> NOT if that control system is borked for keyboard only use!!!!!

GAMEPAD control system is good for gamepad,

and I don't think compains about keyboard/mouse are entirely fair -
keyboard and mouse are NOT equivalent of gamepad and some games will be
better for one or the other. To pick extreme example - racing games - no
way you can control them properly using keyboard/mouse because you need
proportional steering and throttle (there are some racing games you can
control using keyboard because they only require full throttle and crazy
left/right but that's very limited).

so once you go the way using the continuous character of gamepad
control it's hard to limit yourself to keyboard/mouse. Some games are
easier to control using keyboard/mouse, some using gamepad, some using
drum pads etc. Why force ONE thing on everything?

you could discuss why TR type of game should be designed for k/m or
gamepad but you don't. And you can certainly make a case for gamepad -
e.g. it's easy to run in ANY direction at ANY moment which is not
possible using keyboard.

and all this talk about gamepads not being appropriate for PCs etc.
is just, well, it doesn't make sense. You really want to go old, school,
get a patch panel Smile Otherwise use the right tools for the job. It's
like complaining j.s. bach's fugues are not playable on guitar or chuck
berry's licks not working well on piano (even though they essentially
imitate piano on guitar!) etc.

I agree with you on console games (and console ports) being in
general simplistic etc. but gamepads are innocent in this.

erik
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Zoot

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Since: Nov 02, 2008
Posts: 14



(Msg. 52) Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:32 am
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> BINGO! No gamepad (no x64 drivers for it!!!) so it's keyboard/rat.
> McG.
>

I use an MS Sindwinder USB. Doesn't need drivers, works fine with XP64.
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Zoot

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Since: Nov 02, 2008
Posts: 14



(Msg. 53) Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:33 am
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"Erik Steffl" <steffl DeleteThis @bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:TNidnZ-If6sK8bPUnZ2dnUVZ_qTinZ2d@posted.rawbandwidth...
> Zoot wrote:
>>>> 6. Where's the orientation button!?
>>> what's orientation? you mean turn lara around? you can do it with
>>> gamepad (turn her standing in one spot)
>>
>>
>> Camera orientation - make the camera point where you want. TRA has it,
>> TRL has it, TRU does not. Sucks.
>
> what do you mean? camera is controlled with right joystick, points
> whereever you want it to, I don't see any difference between TRL, TRA, TRU
> in this area,
>

TRU PC - no joystick. I use a gamepad, but it has only one dpad. A second
one to move camera would be awesome!

With both TRL and TRA, there is a function (hud or something like that) that
will also cause the camera to orient so that it is behind Lara.
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Erik Steffl

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Since: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 119



(Msg. 54) Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:15 am
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Zoot wrote:
> "Erik Steffl" <steffl.RemoveThis@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:TNidnZ-If6sK8bPUnZ2dnUVZ_qTinZ2d@posted.rawbandwidth...
>> Zoot wrote:
>>>>> 6. Where's the orientation button!?
>>>> what's orientation? you mean turn lara around? you can do it with
>>>> gamepad (turn her standing in one spot)
>>>
>>> Camera orientation - make the camera point where you want. TRA has it,
>>> TRL has it, TRU does not. Sucks.
>> what do you mean? camera is controlled with right joystick, points
>> whereever you want it to, I don't see any difference between TRL, TRA, TRU
>> in this area,
>>
>
> TRU PC - no joystick. I use a gamepad, but it has only one dpad. A second
> one to move camera would be awesome!

I meant right joystick on the gamepad, most gamepads these days have
two of those - left one controls movement, right one controls camera. I
am using Xbox 360 controller (on a PC), it works great (latest XP
drivers, older drivers were horrible and you needed third party drivers)

> With both TRL and TRA, there is a function (hud or something like that) that
> will also cause the camera to orient so that it is behind Lara.

yeah, seems that's not available in TRU, I don't miss it (guess it's
because I move camera around all the time and camera doesn't have to be
exactly behind lara for you to move (whever you want to go).

erik
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Paul E Kiefer Jr

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Since: May 23, 2007
Posts: 13



(Msg. 55) Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:10 am
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Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Nov 27, 1:54�am, Erik Steffl <ste....RemoveThis@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> > Overall, I consider this a big improvement.
>
> � �did you have any crashes/reboots while playing the game?
>
> � � � � erik

None at all. My computer handled it like a champ.
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Paul E Kiefer Jr

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Since: May 23, 2007
Posts: 13



(Msg. 56) Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:25 am
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On Nov 27, 1:54�am, Erik Steffl <ste....RemoveThis@bigfoot.com> wrote:
Paul E Kiefer Jr wrote:


> On Nov 21, 3:05 am, Erik Steffl <ste....RemoveThis@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>> what do you guys think?


>> erik


> Yeah, I know, it's been a while, but here I am. To answer your
> question:


> Cons:


> 1. Glass walls definitely encountered. Apparently, this was a rush
> job and they didn't bother to figure out exactly the shape of each
> object encountered. Bad.



yeah, that's really sad,

On top of that, the "glass wall" effect also seems to apply to the
outer edges...probably as a way to "set the boundaries" of the area of
exploration. Nice touch, but it left me wanting to go to areas that I
can't explore. Ah, well, I guess that's the price you pay.


> 2. At Lara "close up and personal", when she's facing the camera and
> in a tight spot or up close to the wall, the camera got a bit shaky.
> This really throws off one's perspective. Also bad.

> 3. McG: In terms of "collision detection", I see her sometimes
> standing off the ground about four inches, and sometimes I see her
> standing with her legs sunk into the ground up to her ankles. Mildly
> annoying, but there you are.



it's not perfect but TRU is by far the most amazingly connected
(lara
to environment), grabbing things, climbing, walking/jumping over
things
etc. is very precise with lot of animations supporting different
environment and objects. Not sure which other game to compare it to
but
compared to previous TRs (incuding TRA) this is a HUGE jump (just
watch
closely the little cracks in ledges)

All well and good, but I would have liked to see it mesh perfectly.
Lara should be standing on the object, not above it or into it.


> 4. Gone is the "jump-and-shoot" evasive maneuver. A pity. I liked
> that one.


it's there! you can jump and shoot all you want, that's the only
way
to do any of the "floor routine" tricks. Or are you talking about
some
very specific move?

Read: "Adrenaline Dodge".


> 5. This one also doesn't have the "kick-and-shoot" maneuver. I liked
> that one as well.


hey TR is not supposed to have kicks! none of the REAL TRs had any
kicks...

They never considered the possibility of kicking off your opponent and
then shooting back then, either, which, IMHO, is a realistic but rare
possibility, mostly for cinematic purposes. See also: Martial arts
movies such as "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", etc.

> 6. Where's the orientation button!?


what's orientation? you mean turn lara around? you can do it with
gamepad (turn her standing in one spot)

The button you push to get the camera re-oriented behind Lara and get
a momentary HUD readout on the screen to show health, etc.


> 7. Not quite as smooth at times in the animation. I felt like I was
> watching "NFL Live Super Slo Mo" video; the kind that jerks a little
> at full speed.

> 8. Sorry, I'm still old school. I still prefer the all-keyboard
> system. Oh, well...



yes but the gamepad control system is really good for what it is

If (A) you're into that sort of thing, and (B) you don't have hands
that are as small as an elf's.

> 9. Not all the "extra" weapons are accessible. You have to choose
> one weapon and hope that it works for the scenario you're involved
> in. Bad.


you are supposed to use pistols! was that a trick question? Wink

Oh, of course. Silly me. I guess I'm still that "Kill a roach with a
bazooka" kind of guy. Wink

> 10. Sorry, but "relics" and "treasures" don't mean balls and duo-
> decahedrons. Let's try that again, shall we?


yeah, another sad unfinished/ignored part, there should be
something
there that rewards player (immediately or almost immediately)

It should at least look like you've got an actual relic or artifact.
A book, a spoon, or...something.

> 11. Medipaks do not restore full health. I preferred the older way
> of doing things, when full medipaks restored full health and smaller
> medikits restored partial health, but that's just me.


given how easy the game is this seems irrelevant but yeah,


> Pros:

> 1. More exploration, more randomness in the level mission designs.
> Sure, there's some linear progression, but it's not all linear. I
> like this.


> 2. My computer handled the graphics well. I had been concerned
> because the recommended card was the 8800GT or equivalent, and all I
> had was an 8600GTX. Also a plus.


> 3. The environment was well detailed and vast when it needed to be.
> Good job there.



specially detailed, IMO they did a pretty good job at that, both
technology and level design,

I actually believed she was going through an ancient area. Can't get
much better than that.


> 4. The "chimney climb" was new, and that did make things
> interesting. However, I'm not sure that kind of maneuver can be done
> in the real world. It's probably nothing...


see jackie chan movies Smile

I'll make a note of that.


> 5. The "last second move" makes for interesting drama. I'm kinda
> neutral about that, though.


the slow motion? not bad, it's used fairly well IMO (not too much
and
in places where it makes sense)


> 6. The improved, easy to use acrobatics makes things more accessible.

> 7. You can choose different outfits, limited only to what would be
> considered appropriate for the scenario. I would have preferred to
> have all the outfits available, but this is a good start.


> 8. Medipaks visually were replaced by some rather interesting looking
> objects appropriate to the scenario. Give 'em points for orginality.



only you never know what you picked up Smile

Actually, I figured it out after checking the "inventory" section.


> Concentrating only on the mission objectives, I completed the game in
> three days and three hours. After completion, there is a "treasure
> hunt" phase that will allow you to grab all the items that you missed
> without actually having to achieve the scenario objective again. It's
> probably going to take me some time to get them all. There is also a
> redesign of the unlockable content. I don't exactly know how that
> works, though.

> Overall, I consider this a big improvement.
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Paul E Kiefer Jr

External


Since: May 23, 2007
Posts: 13



(Msg. 57) Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:26 am
Post subject: Re: TR underworld my first impression [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Nov 27, 5:02�am, "McG." <McCod... RemoveThis @comcast.ne> wrote:
> "Erik Steffl"
>
> >> 8. �Sorry, I'm still old school. �I still prefer the all-keyboard
> >> system. �Oh, well...
>
> > � yes but the gamepad control system is really good for what it is
>
> NOT if that control system is borked for keyboard only use!!!!!
> McG.

Settle down. Let's not go into a controls flamewar here.
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McG.

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Since: Nov 12, 2008
Posts: 67



(Msg. 58) Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:56 pm
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"Zoot" <nospam.DeleteThis@zoot.com> wrote in message
news:492eda31$0$89394$815e3792@news.qwest.net...
>> BINGO! No gamepad (no x64 drivers for it!!!) so it's keyboard/rat.
>> McG.
>>
>
> I use an MS Sindwinder USB. Doesn't need drivers, works fine with XP64.
>
I have a USB joystick. I forget what kind. Big un. Smile Works fine in x64
too. Saitek I think? But not for Tombraider. Keyboard is prefered, will
accept rat if the game won't let go of it. Wink
McG.
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McG.

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Since: Nov 12, 2008
Posts: 67



(Msg. 59) Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:06 pm
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"Erik Steffl" <steffl.RemoveThis@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:kMSdnXERxetiMLPUnZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@posted.rawbandwidth...
> McG. wrote:
>> "Erik Steffl"
>>
>>
>>>> 8. Sorry, I'm still old school. I still prefer the all-keyboard
>>>> system. Oh, well...
>>> yes but the gamepad control system is really good for what it is
>>>
>>
>> NOT if that control system is borked for keyboard only use!!!!!
>
> GAMEPAD control system is good for gamepad,
>
> and I don't think compains about keyboard/mouse are entirely fair -
> keyboard and mouse are NOT equivalent of gamepad and some games will be
> better for one or the other. To pick extreme example - racing games - no
> way you can control them properly using keyboard/mouse because you need
> proportional steering and throttle (there are some racing games you can
> control using keyboard because they only require full throttle and crazy
> left/right but that's very limited).

I have a joystick for flight sims. IL2 Sturmovik and its expansions. The
only driving I do on the PC is with Lara and Gordon Freeman. Very Happy Keyboard
works fine for those two.
Erik, I want to play Tombraider like Tombraider. With my keyboard. All
those years of griping about not having a mouse, then getting it and not
wanting it. Imagine that. Razz

>
> so once you go the way using the continuous character of gamepad control
> it's hard to limit yourself to keyboard/mouse. Some games are easier to
> control using keyboard/mouse, some using gamepad, some using drum pads
> etc. Why force ONE thing on everything?

I. LIKE. The. Keyboard. For. TOMBRAIDING. Ok? Very Happy

>
> you could discuss why TR type of game should be designed for k/m or
> gamepad but you don't. And you can certainly make a case for gamepad -
> e.g. it's easy to run in ANY direction at ANY moment which is not possible
> using keyboard.

Evidently you never played Quake Deathmatch online! The old skoolers can
circle strafe and tear you a new one using only the keyboard. They showed
me a thing or three! If you get used to something, it's automatic. And I'm
too beat up and shakey for little joysticks on a handheld pad thingy. The
weight of my arms on the desk helps steady the hands. At least for small
movements. Like pressing keys. Smile

>
> and all this talk about gamepads not being appropriate for PCs etc. is
> just, well, it doesn't make sense.

WHOA. That ain't what I'm saying. Not at all. I'm saying plainly *I* want
keyboard only like the first series of TR's!

> You really want to go old, school, get a patch panel Smile Otherwise use the
> right tools for the job.

The keyboard IS the (ONE of the) right tools for the job!

> It's like complaining j.s. bach's fugues are not playable on guitar or
> chuck berry's licks not working well on piano (even though they
> essentially imitate piano on guitar!) etc.
>
> I agree with you on console games (and console ports) being in general
> simplistic etc. but gamepads are innocent in this.

SO? I still want my keyboard only play! Smile

>
> erik

McG.
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McG.

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Since: Nov 12, 2008
Posts: 67



(Msg. 60) Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:08 pm
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"Paul E Kiefer Jr" <pkieferjr.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
news:003e009a-c0bc-474f-aff7-d28cab28cc8d@a12g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 27, 5:02?am, "McG." <McCod....TakeThisOut@comcast.ne> wrote:
> "Erik Steffl"
>
> >> 8. ?Sorry, I'm still old school. ?I still prefer the all-keyboard
> >> system. ?Oh, well...
>
> > ? yes but the gamepad control system is really good for what it is
>
> NOT if that control system is borked for keyboard only use!!!!!
> McG.

Settle down. Let's not go into a controls flamewar here.

Very Happy

McG.
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Eidos releases first official Tomb Raider: Underworld scre.. - Eidos Interactive has released the first official screenshots from Tomb Raider: Underworld that will come out in late 2008 on PC, PS3, Xbox 360, NDS, Wii and PS2. Tomb Raider Underworld puts Lara Croft in Southern Mexico where she must unravel the..

Eidos releases renders from the new Lara Croft in Tomb Rai.. - Eidos Interactive has released 3 renders from the new Lara Croft in Tomb Raider: Underworld that will come out in late 2008 on PC, PS3, Xbox 360, NDS, Wii and PS2. Tomb Raider Underworld puts Lara Croft in Southern Mexico where she must unravel the..

TRL Demo - DC's impressions - Yes! Oh it's nice, real nice. Everyone talks about 'real' physics in games today, but very few games actually utilise them (the most recent that claimed that realistic physics were important was...uhm..PsyOps? Or whatever it was where you had to use ...

TBC Fast Package(1-70) - Any Class Free 2000G - Wow level50-60&#65292;30g per level level60-70&#65292;150g per level. Dear Sir or Madam Hot Sale!For all of our customers,the news and olds,www.game-powers.com are some Special Package! We now provide Powerleveling measured by..
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