TOT: Best/easiest Linux install

"ScratchMonkey" <ScratchMonkey.blacklist RemoveThis @sewingwitch.com> wrote in message
news:Xns990A264138B5Fscratchmonkey@216.196.97.136...
> "Schrodinger" <no RemoveThis @way.com> wrote in news:uJnRh.15455$1H6.9730
> @fe01.news.easynews.com:
>
>> What's the best version of Linux for me to install -
>>
>> - with minimum fuss and if possible
>> - without risking my existing XP Pro installation
>
> How about one that requires no installation whatsoever?
>
> Grab a copy of one of the Live CD distributions. These run from the CD and
> keep only volatile data on the hard disk. For example, Fedora Core 7 test
> release 3 just came out in both an installable version and a Live CD
> version.
>
> Try the different Live CD's and see which you like the best. Then worry
> about doing something more "permanent".
>

I've just got hold of Kubuntu while looking around - this booted fine from
CD. I'm worried about installing with WinXP on the disc.
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"Mr K" <duffstuff.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Y4OdnVJ4eJ0gs4vbnZ2dnUVZ8qijnZ2d@pipex.net...
> On Friday 06 Apr 2007 09:42, Schrodinger wrote:
>
>> I'd ask in a Linux group, but they're full of geeks!
>
> I was going to say, "This place isn't?"
>
> ... hmm.
>
>> I have decided to take the plunge - I'm using my PC for games less these
>> days and wouldn't mind having to re boot to play.
>>
>> I saw some sort of web based installer when using www.stumbleupon.com
>> that
>> installed Linux in a file as opposed to a partition. It didn't work and I
>> meant to come back to it. Can I find it again? No.
>>
>> What's the best version of Linux for me to install -
>>
>> - with minimum fuss and if possible
>
> Mandriva.
>
>> - without risking my existing XP Pro installation
>
> Any, afaik, provided there's an empty space for it. Linux looks after
> bootsectors/bootloaders... windows doesn't give a toss, and will slap its
> own
> MBR over anything else.
>
> --
> Photos - http://boltondave.fotopic.net/
>

Right, I'll get a hold of Mandriva and let you know. Thanks Mr K.
 >> Stay informed about: TOT: Best/easiest Linux install 

Mr K wrote:
> On Friday 06 Apr 2007 09:42, Schrodinger wrote:
>
>> - without risking my existing XP Pro installation
>
> Any, afaik, provided there's an empty space for it. Linux looks after
> bootsectors/bootloaders... windows doesn't give a toss, and will slap its own
> MBR over anything else.

Oh, yeah, just don't *ever* touch the partitioning, or format a
partition, from Windows, ever again.

--
Frank
 >> Stay informed about: TOT: Best/easiest Linux install 

"Frank van Schie" <nospam.TakeThisOut@please.don't> wrote in message
news:2fedndWesqZcHovbnZ2dnUVZ8s6gnZ2d@casema.nl...
> Mr K wrote:
>> On Friday 06 Apr 2007 09:42, Schrodinger wrote:
>>
>>> - without risking my existing XP Pro installation
>>
>> Any, afaik, provided there's an empty space for it. Linux looks after
>> bootsectors/bootloaders... windows doesn't give a toss, and will slap its
>> own
>> MBR over anything else.
>
> Oh, yeah, just don't *ever* touch the partitioning, or format a partition,
> from Windows, ever again.
>
> --
> Frank
>

Frank, what do you mean? Is this something I can do from Linux and cock up
my XP install without realising?
 >> Stay informed about: TOT: Best/easiest Linux install 

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 >> Stay informed about: TOT: Best/easiest Linux install 

Mr K <duffstuff.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:ycmdndD_WqSNK4vbnZ2dnUVZ8surnZ2d@pipex.net:

> Also, as you're using xp, you might not be able to have write-access
> from Linux to a windows partition... but only if you're using ntfs.
> Linux, by default, will not give you write-access to any ntfs
> partitions.

The problem here has several dimensions. One is that NTFS is proprietary
and undocumented, so any driver must be reverse-engineered and there's no
guarantee that tomorrow's MS patch won't break it. (And the Linux driver
will be blamed for any data loss, of course.)

Another is that there might be patents lurking in NTFS just so MS can
legally torpedo any commercial entity (eg. Red Hat) that tries to ship an
NTFS driver with a Linux distribution. (A similar reason is why Red Hat
can't ship MP3 codecs.)

So you can access NTFS (I do) but you have to install the support yourself.
It's not very hard. For RPM-based systems, just download the right binary
from the Linux NTFS website for your distribution and kernel.

http://www.linux-ntfs.org/
 >> Stay informed about: TOT: Best/easiest Linux install 

Mr K <duffstuff DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
news:ycmdndD_WqSNK4vbnZ2dnUVZ8surnZ2d@pipex.net:

> Windows... doesn't care. It'll install itself, and refuses to
> acknowledge any other operating system that might be already
> installed, you'll end up with just windows. The installer might show
> something up as a non-ms partition, but that's all you'll see of it.
> Once in windows, there's no other operating system installed... other
> than windows.

So when you install an MS OS, always have a Linux rescue disk handy, so you
can re-install the Linux boot loader and get access to both OSs.
 >> Stay informed about: TOT: Best/easiest Linux install 

"Mr K" <duffstuff.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ycmdndD_WqSNK4vbnZ2dnUVZ8surnZ2d@pipex.net...
> On Friday 06 Apr 2007 19:38, Schrodinger wrote:
>
>> Frank, what do you mean? Is this something I can do from Linux and cock
>> up
>> my XP install without realising?
>
> No. The normal pattern for a Windows/Linux dualboot system, is install
> windows
> first, then install Linux. When installing Linux, the installer takes note
> of
> what's already installed... if anything, and adjusts the loader
> accordingly,
> giving you full access to whatever's already installed.
>
> Windows... doesn't care. It'll install itself, and refuses to acknowledge
> any
> other operating system that might be already installed, you'll end up with
> just windows. The installer might show something up as a non-ms partition,
> but
> that's all you'll see of it. Once in windows, there's no other operating
> system installed... other than windows.
>
> Try dualbooting two windows operating systems on one PC. It's easy with
> Linux,
> you just install the second/third/fourth/etc operating system... the
> loader
> takes into account, etc.
>
> Also, as you're using xp, you might not be able to have write-access from
> Linux
> to a windows partition... but only if you're using ntfs. Linux, by
> default,
> will not give you write-access to any ntfs partitions.
>
> --
> Photos - http://boltondave.fotopic.net/
>

Thanks again Mr K and Frank, exactly the info I couldn't find. I've
downloaded the install you recommended and I'll put it on later today - I'm
really looking forward to it.

According to the site I downloaded it from, I will even be able to play BF2!
 >> Stay informed about: TOT: Best/easiest Linux install 

Mr K wrote:
> On Saturday 07 Apr 2007 11:03, Schrodinger wrote:
>
>> Thanks again Mr K and Frank, exactly the info I couldn't find. I've
>> downloaded the install you recommended and I'll put it on later today - I'm
>> really looking forward to it.
>
> If you're wondering what desktop/gui to use, I can recomend KDE.

Dito'd.

Although, perrhaps perversely, I prefer Ubuntu over Kubuntu. This may
have something to do with the idea that Kubuntu is a slapped together
version of Ubuntu-Gnome+KDE. Which is what it is, of course.
--
Frank
 >> Stay informed about: TOT: Best/easiest Linux install 

Frank van Schie <nospam.RemoveThis@please.don't> wrote in
news:7ICdnbWVS9NOKYrbnZ2dnUVZ8tPinZ2d@casema.nl:

>> If you're wondering what desktop/gui to use, I can recomend KDE.
>
> Dito'd.
>
> Although, perrhaps perversely, I prefer Ubuntu over Kubuntu. This may
> have something to do with the idea that Kubuntu is a slapped together
> version of Ubuntu-Gnome+KDE. Which is what it is, of course.

So how would one choose between them, with no prior knowledge of any of
them? I mostly run servers and so use a bunch of PuTTY ssh terminal windows
from my Windows client. On the rare occasions I've brought up Gnome, I've
felt pretty lost with no idea how to do much more than find the menu item
for a terminal or Mozilla.

Also, what's a good debugger environment? I'm going to be porting an app
soon to Linux (a shared library and a GUI front-end to drive it). Obviously
there's gcc for building and gdb as the debugger back-end, but will I be
using gdb from the command line or is there a better alternative? (At some
point I'll move this to an embedded CPU with no video, just an Ethernet
interface, if that makes a difference.)
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ScratchMonkey wrote:
> Frank van Schie <nospam DeleteThis @please.don't> wrote in
> news:7ICdnbWVS9NOKYrbnZ2dnUVZ8tPinZ2d@casema.nl:
>
>>> If you're wondering what desktop/gui to use, I can recomend KDE.
>> Dito'd.
>>
>> Although, perrhaps perversely, I prefer Ubuntu over Kubuntu. This may
>> have something to do with the idea that Kubuntu is a slapped together
>> version of Ubuntu-Gnome+KDE. Which is what it is, of course.
>
> So how would one choose between them, with no prior knowledge of any of
> them?

Tossing a coin? Guessing? No easy answers, I'm afraid

> I mostly run servers and so use a bunch of PuTTY ssh terminal windows
> from my Windows client. On the rare occasions I've brought up Gnome, I've
> felt pretty lost with no idea how to do much more than find the menu item
> for a terminal or Mozilla.

Finding and starting the right apps and having them available is going
to take a while. It's a pretty major change to your workflow. I think
trying to bend the new system to your old ways is not going to end well.
That said, KDE represents the more Windows-y look'n'feel. There is no
PuTTY, there is just the shell.

I'm now a Mac user when I'm on my work notebook. I've found the Mac
method of organizing apps to be very nice, once I took the time to get
used to it. Installed Quicksilver (must-have application) and it's
great. I've never had that good an experience with Linux.

I do miss putty, though.

> Also, what's a good debugger environment? I'm going to be porting an app
> soon to Linux (a shared library and a GUI front-end to drive it). Obviously
> there's gcc for building and gdb as the debugger back-end, but will I be
> using gdb from the command line or is there a better alternative? (At some
> point I'll move this to an embedded CPU with no video, just an Ethernet
> interface, if that makes a difference.)

I'm a Java programmer. I use Eclipse, which is written in Java and runs
pretty much anywhere.

As for development environments, I've heard about KDevelop (KDE-based).
Unable to say good or bad about it, but there you go.
--
Frank
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