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Next: wtb 48in1 or better
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External
Since: Nov 18, 2007
Posts: 74
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:50 am
Post subject: TECH: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanation)
Archived from groups: rec>games>video>arcade>collecting (more info?)
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Hi;
First the quick question:
When first turned on, into the game about 40 or 50 seconds, the game
will blink off and go back into attract mode.
I place it in test and no errors reported. Thereafter during play, the
game will blink off and not reset. Again test shows no errors but when
placed back into normal, game will not play. Also, when game is
malfunctioning, 2N3055 on A/R II gets hot. As the test shows that
there are no RAM or ROM errors, what would do you think would cause
this to occur?
Now the long explaination:
When I first started to troubleshoot this game, it played but the
image was off the screen and even with the pots turned down all the
way, you could not see the scores etc. Placing the game in test, gave
the error code that C1 RAM was bad. I replaced that and proceeded with
troubleshooting. I traced the display problem to a bad +15vdc
regulator on the AVG PCB. I replaced all the regulators and
electrolytic caps of both boards (just to make sure). Then the game
would not play, in test though, the screen problem was solved, it was
a normal size display but showed that ROM E1 was bad. I installed the
replacement ROM and fired it up. Still no picture during regular play.
I put it into test and received the ROM 2 and ROM 7 are bad error
codes. I toggled between normal and test and got the game to come up,
although it kept blinking out. The 2N3055 was getting hot on the ARII
so I shut it down.
I let it cool, came back to try again in test and now it showed 9 was
bad, no longer 2 and 7. I reset the HS tables etc and then there were
no errors during test!! I placed it back into normal and the game came
up.
I was in the back confirming voltages while the game was in attract
mode and I heard the coin counter register a coin drop..!? When I went
to the front, there were no credits on the game. I coined it up and
started a game. I was playing for about 20 seconds or so then the game
blinked out and reset to attract mode. I noticed that when the game
was working properly, the 3055 did not get hot but when the game was
malfunctioning, it got very warm.
To date, I replaced the defective RAM C1 and EPROM E1 on the AVG PCB,
replaced all electrolytic caps and voltage regulators on both boards,
removed and cleaned all ICs', installed a rebuilt power brick and A/R
II. I checked and confirmed all voltages on both boards, (the voltage
reading is a little lower on the aux board than the AVG but it is the
same way on my BZ).
Any ideas on what would cause the game to malfunction during play but
show no error codes during test.
Looking for any ideas please.....
Thanks
Jeff |
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External
Since: Apr 20, 2005
Posts: 206
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:03 am
Post subject: Re: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanation) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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You need to make sure you have a good strong +5 volts. If that voltage is
dropping the game will do what you are describing.
"Jeff" <jetusenet.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:050a618e-cf78-4bbe-9c0f-0831a52654f2@v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> Hi;
>
> First the quick question:
> When first turned on, into the game about 40 or 50 seconds, the game
> will blink off and go back into attract mode.
> I place it in test and no errors reported. Thereafter during play, the
> game will blink off and not reset. Again test shows no errors but when
> placed back into normal, game will not play. Also, when game is
> malfunctioning, 2N3055 on A/R II gets hot. As the test shows that
> there are no RAM or ROM errors, what would do you think would cause
> this to occur?
>
> Now the long explaination:
> When I first started to troubleshoot this game, it played but the
> image was off the screen and even with the pots turned down all the
> way, you could not see the scores etc. Placing the game in test, gave
> the error code that C1 RAM was bad. I replaced that and proceeded with
> troubleshooting. I traced the display problem to a bad +15vdc
> regulator on the AVG PCB. I replaced all the regulators and
> electrolytic caps of both boards (just to make sure). Then the game
> would not play, in test though, the screen problem was solved, it was
> a normal size display but showed that ROM E1 was bad. I installed the
> replacement ROM and fired it up. Still no picture during regular play.
> I put it into test and received the ROM 2 and ROM 7 are bad error
> codes. I toggled between normal and test and got the game to come up,
> although it kept blinking out. The 2N3055 was getting hot on the ARII
> so I shut it down.
> I let it cool, came back to try again in test and now it showed 9 was
> bad, no longer 2 and 7. I reset the HS tables etc and then there were
> no errors during test!! I placed it back into normal and the game came
> up.
> I was in the back confirming voltages while the game was in attract
> mode and I heard the coin counter register a coin drop..!? When I went
> to the front, there were no credits on the game. I coined it up and
> started a game. I was playing for about 20 seconds or so then the game
> blinked out and reset to attract mode. I noticed that when the game
> was working properly, the 3055 did not get hot but when the game was
> malfunctioning, it got very warm.
>
> To date, I replaced the defective RAM C1 and EPROM E1 on the AVG PCB,
> replaced all electrolytic caps and voltage regulators on both boards,
> removed and cleaned all ICs', installed a rebuilt power brick and A/R
> II. I checked and confirmed all voltages on both boards, (the voltage
> reading is a little lower on the aux board than the AVG but it is the
> same way on my BZ).
> Any ideas on what would cause the game to malfunction during play but
> show no error codes during test.
> Looking for any ideas please.....
> Thanks
> Jeff |
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External
Since: Nov 18, 2007
Posts: 74
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanation) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 4, 8:03 am, "Mickey Johnson" <micks... DeleteThis @derbyworks.net> wrote:
> You need to make sure you have a good strong +5 volts. If that voltage is
> dropping the game will do what you are describing.
>
> "Jeff" <jetuse... DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> news:050a618e-cf78-4bbe-9c0f-0831a52654f2@v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Hi;
>
> > First the quick question:
> > When first turned on, into the game about 40 or 50 seconds, the game
> > will blink off and go back into attract mode.
> > I place it in test and no errors reported. Thereafter during play, the
> > game will blink off and not reset. Again test shows no errors but when
> > placed back into normal, game will not play. Also, when game is
> > malfunctioning, 2N3055 on A/R II gets hot. As the test shows that
> > there are no RAM or ROM errors, what would do you think would cause
> > this to occur?
>
> > Now the long explaination:
> > When I first started to troubleshoot this game, it played but the
> > image was off the screen and even with the pots turned down all the
> > way, you could not see the scores etc. Placing the game in test, gave
> > the error code that C1 RAM was bad. I replaced that and proceeded with
> > troubleshooting. I traced the display problem to a bad +15vdc
> > regulator on the AVG PCB. I replaced all the regulators and
> > electrolytic caps of both boards (just to make sure). Then the game
> > would not play, in test though, the screen problem was solved, it was
> > a normal size display but showed that ROM E1 was bad. I installed the
> > replacement ROM and fired it up. Still no picture during regular play.
> > I put it into test and received the ROM 2 and ROM 7 are bad error
> > codes. I toggled between normal and test and got the game to come up,
> > although it kept blinking out. The 2N3055 was getting hot on the ARII
> > so I shut it down.
> > I let it cool, came back to try again in test and now it showed 9 was
> > bad, no longer 2 and 7. I reset the HS tables etc and then there were
> > no errors during test!! I placed it back into normal and the game came
> > up.
> > I was in the back confirming voltages while the game was in attract
> > mode and I heard the coin counter register a coin drop..!? When I went
> > to the front, there were no credits on the game. I coined it up and
> > started a game. I was playing for about 20 seconds or so then the game
> > blinked out and reset to attract mode. I noticed that when the game
> > was working properly, the 3055 did not get hot but when the game was
> > malfunctioning, it got very warm.
>
> > To date, I replaced the defective RAM C1 and EPROM E1 on the AVG PCB,
> > replaced all electrolytic caps and voltage regulators on both boards,
> > removed and cleaned all ICs', installed a rebuilt power brick and A/R
> > II. I checked and confirmed all voltages on both boards, (the voltage
> > reading is a little lower on the aux board than the AVG but it is the
> > same way on my BZ).
> > Any ideas on what would cause the game to malfunction during play but
> > show no error codes during test.
> > Looking for any ideas please.....
> > Thanks
> > Jeff
I have +5.09vdc on the AVG PCB and +5.00 on the Aux board.
I know the low voltage would cause malfunctioning but what would cause
the transistor to get so hot?
Thanks
Jeff >> Stay informed about: TECH: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanati.. |
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External
Since: Nov 18, 2007
Posts: 74
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanation) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 5, 12:13 am, John Robertson <s... DeleteThis @flippers.com> wrote:
> Jeff wrote:
> > On Feb 4, 8:03 am, "Mickey Johnson" <micks... DeleteThis @derbyworks.net> wrote:
> >> You need to make sure you have a good strong +5 volts. If that voltage is
> >> dropping the game will do what you are describing.
>
> >> "Jeff" <jetuse... DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> >>news:050a618e-cf78-4bbe-9c0f-0831a52654f2@v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> Hi;
> >>> First the quick question:
> >>> When first turned on, into the game about 40 or 50 seconds, the game
> >>> will blink off and go back into attract mode.
> >>> I place it in test and no errors reported. Thereafter during play, the
> >>> game will blink off and not reset. Again test shows no errors but when
> >>> placed back into normal, game will not play. Also, when game is
> >>> malfunctioning, 2N3055 on A/R II gets hot. As the test shows that
> >>> there are no RAM or ROM errors, what would do you think would cause
> >>> this to occur?
> >>> Now the long explaination:
> >>> When I first started to troubleshoot this game, it played but the
> >>> image was off the screen and even with the pots turned down all the
> >>> way, you could not see the scores etc. Placing the game in test, gave
> >>> the error code that C1 RAM was bad. I replaced that and proceeded with
> >>> troubleshooting. I traced the display problem to a bad +15vdc
> >>> regulator on the AVG PCB. I replaced all the regulators and
> >>> electrolytic caps of both boards (just to make sure). Then the game
> >>> would not play, in test though, the screen problem was solved, it was
> >>> a normal size display but showed that ROM E1 was bad. I installed the
> >>> replacement ROM and fired it up. Still no picture during regular play.
> >>> I put it into test and received the ROM 2 and ROM 7 are bad error
> >>> codes. I toggled between normal and test and got the game to come up,
> >>> although it kept blinking out. The 2N3055 was getting hot on the ARII
> >>> so I shut it down.
> >>> I let it cool, came back to try again in test and now it showed 9 was
> >>> bad, no longer 2 and 7. I reset the HS tables etc and then there were
> >>> no errors during test!! I placed it back into normal and the game came
> >>> up.
> >>> I was in the back confirming voltages while the game was in attract
> >>> mode and I heard the coin counter register a coin drop..!? When I went
> >>> to the front, there were no credits on the game. I coined it up and
> >>> started a game. I was playing for about 20 seconds or so then the game
> >>> blinked out and reset to attract mode. I noticed that when the game
> >>> was working properly, the 3055 did not get hot but when the game was
> >>> malfunctioning, it got very warm.
> >>> To date, I replaced the defective RAM C1 and EPROM E1 on the AVG PCB,
> >>> replaced all electrolytic caps and voltage regulators on both boards,
> >>> removed and cleaned all ICs', installed a rebuilt power brick and A/R
> >>> II. I checked and confirmed all voltages on both boards, (the voltage
> >>> reading is a little lower on the aux board than the AVG but it is the
> >>> same way on my BZ).
> >>> Any ideas on what would cause the game to malfunction during play but
> >>> show no error codes during test.
> >>> Looking for any ideas please.....
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Jeff
>
> > I have +5.09vdc on the AVG PCB and +5.00 on the Aux board.
> > I know the low voltage would cause malfunctioning but what would cause
> > the transistor to get so hot?
> > Thanks
> > Jeff
>
> Its a PASS transistor and they do tend to run hot. The real danger of
> using an Atari linear supply is if that transistor shorts it will take
> you game board with it.
>
> I would recommend that you look into replacing the +5VDC with a weel
> rated fan-cooled switching supply - when they fail they drop out...
>
> John :-#)#
>
> --
> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> www.flippers.com
> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
John;
I had rebuilt the A/R II and tested it before I installed it. The
2N3055 only get "really hot" when the game is malfunctioning, what
would cause that?
And are you saying that I should replace all my Atari games P/S'?
That could be expensive, is it really necessary?
Jeff >> Stay informed about: TECH: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanati.. |
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External
Since: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:10 am
Post subject: Re: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanation) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 5, 12:52 am, Jeff <jetuse....RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 12:13 am, John Robertson <s....RemoveThis@flippers.com> wrote:
>
> > > I have +5.09vdc on the AVG PCB and +5.00 on the Aux board.
> > > I know the low voltage would cause malfunctioning but what would cause
> > > the transistor to get so hot?
> > > Thanks
> > > Jeff
>
> > Its a PASS transistor and they do tend to run hot. The real danger of
> > using an Atari linear supply is if that transistor shorts it will take
> > you game board with it.
>
> > I would recommend that you look into replacing the +5VDC with a weel
> > rated fan-cooled switching supply - when they fail they drop out...
>
> > John :-#)#
>
> John;
> And are you saying that I should replace all my Atari games P/S'?
> That could be expensive, is it really necessary?
> Jeff
He is suggesting +5V replacement because there is risk that if that
transistor fails shorted it will do a lot of damage on the game board.
Alternatives are to protect against this failure mode with circuits
like this (http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/circuits/
scr_overvoltage_crowbar/scr_over_voltage_crowbar.php) or devices like
this (http://www.globalspec.com/FeaturedProducts/Detail/
MCGSurgeProtection/Over_Voltage_Protection_Low_Voltage_Crowbar/
15211/0).
John, any suggestions for an over-voltage device or a power supply? I
do not know what "weel rated" means.
Thanks! >> Stay informed about: TECH: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanati.. |
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External
Since: Jun 11, 2005
Posts: 195
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:13 am
Post subject: Re: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanation) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Jeff wrote:
> On Feb 4, 8:03 am, "Mickey Johnson" <micks....RemoveThis@derbyworks.net> wrote:
>> You need to make sure you have a good strong +5 volts. If that voltage is
>> dropping the game will do what you are describing.
>>
>> "Jeff" <jetuse....RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:050a618e-cf78-4bbe-9c0f-0831a52654f2@v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Hi;
>>> First the quick question:
>>> When first turned on, into the game about 40 or 50 seconds, the game
>>> will blink off and go back into attract mode.
>>> I place it in test and no errors reported. Thereafter during play, the
>>> game will blink off and not reset. Again test shows no errors but when
>>> placed back into normal, game will not play. Also, when game is
>>> malfunctioning, 2N3055 on A/R II gets hot. As the test shows that
>>> there are no RAM or ROM errors, what would do you think would cause
>>> this to occur?
>>> Now the long explaination:
>>> When I first started to troubleshoot this game, it played but the
>>> image was off the screen and even with the pots turned down all the
>>> way, you could not see the scores etc. Placing the game in test, gave
>>> the error code that C1 RAM was bad. I replaced that and proceeded with
>>> troubleshooting. I traced the display problem to a bad +15vdc
>>> regulator on the AVG PCB. I replaced all the regulators and
>>> electrolytic caps of both boards (just to make sure). Then the game
>>> would not play, in test though, the screen problem was solved, it was
>>> a normal size display but showed that ROM E1 was bad. I installed the
>>> replacement ROM and fired it up. Still no picture during regular play.
>>> I put it into test and received the ROM 2 and ROM 7 are bad error
>>> codes. I toggled between normal and test and got the game to come up,
>>> although it kept blinking out. The 2N3055 was getting hot on the ARII
>>> so I shut it down.
>>> I let it cool, came back to try again in test and now it showed 9 was
>>> bad, no longer 2 and 7. I reset the HS tables etc and then there were
>>> no errors during test!! I placed it back into normal and the game came
>>> up.
>>> I was in the back confirming voltages while the game was in attract
>>> mode and I heard the coin counter register a coin drop..!? When I went
>>> to the front, there were no credits on the game. I coined it up and
>>> started a game. I was playing for about 20 seconds or so then the game
>>> blinked out and reset to attract mode. I noticed that when the game
>>> was working properly, the 3055 did not get hot but when the game was
>>> malfunctioning, it got very warm.
>>> To date, I replaced the defective RAM C1 and EPROM E1 on the AVG PCB,
>>> replaced all electrolytic caps and voltage regulators on both boards,
>>> removed and cleaned all ICs', installed a rebuilt power brick and A/R
>>> II. I checked and confirmed all voltages on both boards, (the voltage
>>> reading is a little lower on the aux board than the AVG but it is the
>>> same way on my BZ).
>>> Any ideas on what would cause the game to malfunction during play but
>>> show no error codes during test.
>>> Looking for any ideas please.....
>>> Thanks
>>> Jeff
>
> I have +5.09vdc on the AVG PCB and +5.00 on the Aux board.
> I know the low voltage would cause malfunctioning but what would cause
> the transistor to get so hot?
> Thanks
> Jeff
Its a PASS transistor and they do tend to run hot. The real danger of
using an Atari linear supply is if that transistor shorts it will take
you game board with it.
I would recommend that you look into replacing the +5VDC with a weel
rated fan-cooled switching supply - when they fail they drop out...
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." >> Stay informed about: TECH: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanati.. |
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External
Since: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:13 pm
Post subject: Re: TECH: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanation) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 4, 3:50 am, Jeff <jetuse....DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi;
>
> First the quick question:
> When first turned on, into the game about 40 or 50 seconds, the game
> will blink off and go back into attract mode.
> I place it in test and no errors reported. Thereafter during play, the
> game will blink off and not reset. Again test shows no errors but when
> placed back into normal, game will not play. Also, when game is
> malfunctioning, 2N3055 on A/R II gets hot. As the test shows that
> there are no RAM or ROM errors, what would do you think would cause
> this to occur?
>
> Now the long explaination:
> When I first started to troubleshoot this game, it played but the
> image was off the screen and even with the pots turned down all the
> way, you could not see the scores etc. Placing the game in test, gave
> the error code that C1 RAM was bad. I replaced that and proceeded with
> troubleshooting. I traced the display problem to a bad +15vdc
> regulator on the AVG PCB. I replaced all the regulators and
> electrolytic caps of both boards (just to make sure). Then the game
> would not play, in test though, the screen problem was solved, it was
> a normal size display but showed that ROM E1 was bad. I installed the
> replacement ROM and fired it up. Still no picture during regular play.
> I put it into test and received the ROM 2 and ROM 7 are bad error
> codes. I toggled between normal and test and got the game to come up,
> although it kept blinking out. The 2N3055 was getting hot on the ARII
> so I shut it down.
> I let it cool, came back to try again in test and now it showed 9 was
> bad, no longer 2 and 7. I reset the HS tables etc and then there were
> no errors during test!! I placed it back into normal and the game came
> up.
> I was in the back confirming voltages while the game was in attract
> mode and I heard the coin counter register a coin drop..!? When I went
> to the front, there were no credits on the game. I coined it up and
> started a game. I was playing for about 20 seconds or so then the game
> blinked out and reset to attract mode. I noticed that when the game
> was working properly, the 3055 did not get hot but when the game was
> malfunctioning, it got very warm.
>
> To date, I replaced the defective RAM C1 and EPROM E1 on the AVG PCB,
> replaced all electrolytic caps and voltage regulators on both boards,
> removed and cleaned all ICs', installed a rebuilt power brick and A/R
> II. I checked and confirmed all voltages on both boards, (the voltage
> reading is a little lower on the aux board than the AVG but it is the
> same way on my BZ).
> Any ideas on what would cause the game to malfunction during play but
> show no error codes during test.
> Looking for any ideas please.....
> Thanks
> Jeff
I recently got a really nice Red Baron out of an operators warehouse.
I knew it would never work, and it didn't. So, I parked it next to my
working Battlezone and starting switching parts(I'm not a tech type).
I found it had a bad monitor! I was thrilled, so i left the monitor
out of one of my Battlezones(I got five, long story) and cleaned the
Red Baron up. Next day I go to play it and find it is reseting after a
short time of play. I tried the test mode exercise, same as you and it
shows no problem. My buddy Rich from Jaxville tells me to change that
big blue capacitor in the bottom of the cabinet. Hmmm, OK, I can do
that, I had one from Bob Roberts that I never put in my RTOJ, and
guess what? It works great!!!! That was easy to try, and I could not
begin to explain what that big blue does, but my RB is up and flying. >> Stay informed about: TECH: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanati.. |
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External
Since: Nov 18, 2007
Posts: 74
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:03 am
Post subject: Re: TECH: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanation) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 5, 11:13 pm, steve23 <joustda....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 4, 3:50 am, Jeff <jetuse....TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi;
>
> > First the quick question:
> > When first turned on, into the game about 40 or 50 seconds, the game
> > will blink off and go back into attract mode.
> > I place it in test and no errors reported. Thereafter during play, the
> > game will blink off and not reset. Again test shows no errors but when
> > placed back into normal, game will not play. Also, when game is
> > malfunctioning, 2N3055 on A/R II gets hot. As the test shows that
> > there are no RAM or ROM errors, what would do you think would cause
> > this to occur?
>
> > Now the long explaination:
> > When I first started to troubleshoot this game, it played but the
> > image was off the screen and even with the pots turned down all the
> > way, you could not see the scores etc. Placing the game in test, gave
> > the error code that C1 RAM was bad. I replaced that and proceeded with
> > troubleshooting. I traced the display problem to a bad +15vdc
> > regulator on the AVG PCB. I replaced all the regulators and
> > electrolytic caps of both boards (just to make sure). Then the game
> > would not play, in test though, the screen problem was solved, it was
> > a normal size display but showed that ROM E1 was bad. I installed the
> > replacement ROM and fired it up. Still no picture during regular play.
> > I put it into test and received the ROM 2 and ROM 7 are bad error
> > codes. I toggled between normal and test and got the game to come up,
> > although it kept blinking out. The 2N3055 was getting hot on the ARII
> > so I shut it down.
> > I let it cool, came back to try again in test and now it showed 9 was
> > bad, no longer 2 and 7. I reset the HS tables etc and then there were
> > no errors during test!! I placed it back into normal and the game came
> > up.
> > I was in the back confirming voltages while the game was in attract
> > mode and I heard the coin counter register a coin drop..!? When I went
> > to the front, there were no credits on the game. I coined it up and
> > started a game. I was playing for about 20 seconds or so then the game
> > blinked out and reset to attract mode. I noticed that when the game
> > was working properly, the 3055 did not get hot but when the game was
> > malfunctioning, it got very warm.
>
> > To date, I replaced the defective RAM C1 and EPROM E1 on the AVG PCB,
> > replaced all electrolytic caps and voltage regulators on both boards,
> > removed and cleaned all ICs', installed a rebuilt power brick and A/R
> > II. I checked and confirmed all voltages on both boards, (the voltage
> > reading is a little lower on the aux board than the AVG but it is the
> > same way on my BZ).
> > Any ideas on what would cause the game to malfunction during play but
> > show no error codes during test.
> > Looking for any ideas please.....
> > Thanks
> > Jeff
>
> I recently got a really nice Red Baron out of an operators warehouse.
> I knew it would never work, and it didn't. So, I parked it next to my
> working Battlezone and starting switching parts(I'm not a tech type).
> I found it had a bad monitor! I was thrilled, so i left the monitor
> out of one of my Battlezones(I got five, long story) and cleaned the
> Red Baron up. Next day I go to play it and find it is reseting after a
> short time of play. I tried the test mode exercise, same as you and it
> shows no problem. My buddy Rich from Jaxville tells me to change that
> big blue capacitor in the bottom of the cabinet. Hmmm, OK, I can do
> that, I had one from Bob Roberts that I never put in my RTOJ, and
> guess what? It works great!!!! That was easy to try, and I could not
> begin to explain what that big blue does, but my RB is up and flying.
Steve;
I already rebuilt the power brick which included replacing the Big
Blue. I wish that was the problem.
Thanks for the try.
Jeff >> Stay informed about: TECH: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanati.. |
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Since: Nov 18, 2007
Posts: 74
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:11 am
Post subject: Re: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanation) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 5, 11:48 pm, John Robertson <s... DeleteThis @flippers.com> wrote:
> Jeff wrote:
> > On Feb 5, 12:13 am, John Robertson <s... DeleteThis @flippers.com> wrote:
> >> Jeff wrote:
> >>> On Feb 4, 8:03 am, "Mickey Johnson" <micks... DeleteThis @derbyworks.net> wrote:
> >>>> You need to make sure you have a good strong +5 volts. If that voltage is
> >>>> dropping the game will do what you are describing.
> >>>> "Jeff" <jetuse... DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >>>>news:050a618e-cf78-4bbe-9c0f-0831a52654f2@v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>> Hi;
> >>>>> First the quick question:
> >>>>> When first turned on, into the game about 40 or 50 seconds, the game
> >>>>> will blink off and go back into attract mode.
> >>>>> I place it in test and no errors reported. Thereafter during play, the
> >>>>> game will blink off and not reset. Again test shows no errors but when
> >>>>> placed back into normal, game will not play. Also, when game is
> >>>>> malfunctioning, 2N3055 on A/R II gets hot. As the test shows that
> >>>>> there are no RAM or ROM errors, what would do you think would cause
> >>>>> this to occur?
> >>>>> Now the long explaination:
> >>>>> When I first started to troubleshoot this game, it played but the
> >>>>> image was off the screen and even with the pots turned down all the
> >>>>> way, you could not see the scores etc. Placing the game in test, gave
> >>>>> the error code that C1 RAM was bad. I replaced that and proceeded with
> >>>>> troubleshooting. I traced the display problem to a bad +15vdc
> >>>>> regulator on the AVG PCB. I replaced all the regulators and
> >>>>> electrolytic caps of both boards (just to make sure). Then the game
> >>>>> would not play, in test though, the screen problem was solved, it was
> >>>>> a normal size display but showed that ROM E1 was bad. I installed the
> >>>>> replacement ROM and fired it up. Still no picture during regular play.
> >>>>> I put it into test and received the ROM 2 and ROM 7 are bad error
> >>>>> codes. I toggled between normal and test and got the game to come up,
> >>>>> although it kept blinking out. The 2N3055 was getting hot on the ARII
> >>>>> so I shut it down.
> >>>>> I let it cool, came back to try again in test and now it showed 9 was
> >>>>> bad, no longer 2 and 7. I reset the HS tables etc and then there were
> >>>>> no errors during test!! I placed it back into normal and the game came
> >>>>> up.
> >>>>> I was in the back confirming voltages while the game was in attract
> >>>>> mode and I heard the coin counter register a coin drop..!? When I went
> >>>>> to the front, there were no credits on the game. I coined it up and
> >>>>> started a game. I was playing for about 20 seconds or so then the game
> >>>>> blinked out and reset to attract mode. I noticed that when the game
> >>>>> was working properly, the 3055 did not get hot but when the game was
> >>>>> malfunctioning, it got very warm.
> >>>>> To date, I replaced the defective RAM C1 and EPROM E1 on the AVG PCB,
> >>>>> replaced all electrolytic caps and voltage regulators on both boards,
> >>>>> removed and cleaned all ICs', installed a rebuilt power brick and A/R
> >>>>> II. I checked and confirmed all voltages on both boards, (the voltage
> >>>>> reading is a little lower on the aux board than the AVG but it is the
> >>>>> same way on my BZ).
> >>>>> Any ideas on what would cause the game to malfunction during play but
> >>>>> show no error codes during test.
> >>>>> Looking for any ideas please.....
> >>>>> Thanks
> >>>>> Jeff
> >>> I have +5.09vdc on the AVG PCB and +5.00 on the Aux board.
> >>> I know the low voltage would cause malfunctioning but what would cause
> >>> the transistor to get so hot?
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Jeff
> >> Its a PASS transistor and they do tend to run hot. The real danger of
> >> using an Atari linear supply is if that transistor shorts it will take
> >> you game board with it.
>
> >> I would recommend that you look into replacing the +5VDC with a weel
> >> rated fan-cooled switching supply - when they fail they drop out...
>
> >> John :-#)#
>
> >> --
> >> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
> >> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> >> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> >> www.flippers.com
> >> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
>
> > John;
> > I had rebuilt the A/R II and tested it before I installed it. The
> > 2N3055 only get "really hot" when the game is malfunctioning, what
> > would cause that?
> > And are you saying that I should replace all my Atari games P/S'?
> > That could be expensive, is it really necessary?
> > Jeff
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> You either want to add a "Crowbar" a Transorb, or a really heavy duty
> zener diode to protect your game board IF you consider it valuable...I
> figure Red Baron is rare enough to have extra protection from naughty AR
> boards.
>
> Note the 'weel rated fan-cooled power supply' should, of course, be
> "well rated fan-cooled..." - hey, I'm getting over pnuemonia, give me a
> break (ducking and not really looking for sympathy  .
>
> Thinking further about why the pass transistor is only getting realy hot
> when the game is malfunctioning leads me to suspect the pass resistor
> has either a bad solder connection, or is opening internally when hot...
> - I'd replace it before looking elsewhere.
>
> Do a search on transorb, crowbars, etc as protection devices - lots
> written about them and they are easy to add as protection (well a
> transorb is at least!). Note a MOV is NOT a Transorb (Transient
> Absorber) which look not unlike fat diodes...
>
> John :-#)#
>
> --
> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> www.flippers.com
> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
John;
Thanks for the information, a lot to digest. I started downloading
spec.sheets from Vishay and also documents on how to spec. out a TVS
so it's gonna be a while before I finally know what to do and go about
installing one. But until then, you said the "pass resistor" might be
opening when hot, do you mean R24 - the 0.1ohm 7w WW on the A/RII?
Thanks
Jeff >> Stay informed about: TECH: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanati.. |
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Since: Jun 11, 2005
Posts: 195
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:48 am
Post subject: Re: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanation) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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|
|
Jeff wrote:
> On Feb 5, 12:13 am, John Robertson <s....DeleteThis@flippers.com> wrote:
>> Jeff wrote:
>>> On Feb 4, 8:03 am, "Mickey Johnson" <micks....DeleteThis@derbyworks.net> wrote:
>>>> You need to make sure you have a good strong +5 volts. If that voltage is
>>>> dropping the game will do what you are describing.
>>>> "Jeff" <jetuse....DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:050a618e-cf78-4bbe-9c0f-0831a52654f2@v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> Hi;
>>>>> First the quick question:
>>>>> When first turned on, into the game about 40 or 50 seconds, the game
>>>>> will blink off and go back into attract mode.
>>>>> I place it in test and no errors reported. Thereafter during play, the
>>>>> game will blink off and not reset. Again test shows no errors but when
>>>>> placed back into normal, game will not play. Also, when game is
>>>>> malfunctioning, 2N3055 on A/R II gets hot. As the test shows that
>>>>> there are no RAM or ROM errors, what would do you think would cause
>>>>> this to occur?
>>>>> Now the long explaination:
>>>>> When I first started to troubleshoot this game, it played but the
>>>>> image was off the screen and even with the pots turned down all the
>>>>> way, you could not see the scores etc. Placing the game in test, gave
>>>>> the error code that C1 RAM was bad. I replaced that and proceeded with
>>>>> troubleshooting. I traced the display problem to a bad +15vdc
>>>>> regulator on the AVG PCB. I replaced all the regulators and
>>>>> electrolytic caps of both boards (just to make sure). Then the game
>>>>> would not play, in test though, the screen problem was solved, it was
>>>>> a normal size display but showed that ROM E1 was bad. I installed the
>>>>> replacement ROM and fired it up. Still no picture during regular play.
>>>>> I put it into test and received the ROM 2 and ROM 7 are bad error
>>>>> codes. I toggled between normal and test and got the game to come up,
>>>>> although it kept blinking out. The 2N3055 was getting hot on the ARII
>>>>> so I shut it down.
>>>>> I let it cool, came back to try again in test and now it showed 9 was
>>>>> bad, no longer 2 and 7. I reset the HS tables etc and then there were
>>>>> no errors during test!! I placed it back into normal and the game came
>>>>> up.
>>>>> I was in the back confirming voltages while the game was in attract
>>>>> mode and I heard the coin counter register a coin drop..!? When I went
>>>>> to the front, there were no credits on the game. I coined it up and
>>>>> started a game. I was playing for about 20 seconds or so then the game
>>>>> blinked out and reset to attract mode. I noticed that when the game
>>>>> was working properly, the 3055 did not get hot but when the game was
>>>>> malfunctioning, it got very warm.
>>>>> To date, I replaced the defective RAM C1 and EPROM E1 on the AVG PCB,
>>>>> replaced all electrolytic caps and voltage regulators on both boards,
>>>>> removed and cleaned all ICs', installed a rebuilt power brick and A/R
>>>>> II. I checked and confirmed all voltages on both boards, (the voltage
>>>>> reading is a little lower on the aux board than the AVG but it is the
>>>>> same way on my BZ).
>>>>> Any ideas on what would cause the game to malfunction during play but
>>>>> show no error codes during test.
>>>>> Looking for any ideas please.....
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Jeff
>>> I have +5.09vdc on the AVG PCB and +5.00 on the Aux board.
>>> I know the low voltage would cause malfunctioning but what would cause
>>> the transistor to get so hot?
>>> Thanks
>>> Jeff
>> Its a PASS transistor and they do tend to run hot. The real danger of
>> using an Atari linear supply is if that transistor shorts it will take
>> you game board with it.
>>
>> I would recommend that you look into replacing the +5VDC with a weel
>> rated fan-cooled switching supply - when they fail they drop out...
>>
>> John :-#)#
>>
>> --
>> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
>> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
>> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
>> www.flippers.com
>> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
>
> John;
> I had rebuilt the A/R II and tested it before I installed it. The
> 2N3055 only get "really hot" when the game is malfunctioning, what
> would cause that?
> And are you saying that I should replace all my Atari games P/S'?
> That could be expensive, is it really necessary?
> Jeff
Hi Jeff,
You either want to add a "Crowbar" a Transorb, or a really heavy duty
zener diode to protect your game board IF you consider it valuable...I
figure Red Baron is rare enough to have extra protection from naughty AR
boards.
Note the 'weel rated fan-cooled power supply' should, of course, be
"well rated fan-cooled..." - hey, I'm getting over pnuemonia, give me a
break (ducking and not really looking for sympathy .
Thinking further about why the pass transistor is only getting realy hot
when the game is malfunctioning leads me to suspect the pass resistor
has either a bad solder connection, or is opening internally when hot...
- I'd replace it before looking elsewhere.
Do a search on transorb, crowbars, etc as protection devices - lots
written about them and they are easy to add as protection (well a
transorb is at least!). Note a MOV is NOT a Transorb (Transient
Absorber) which look not unlike fat diodes...
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." >> Stay informed about: TECH: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanati.. |
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Since: Jun 11, 2005
Posts: 195
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanation) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Jeff wrote:
> On Feb 5, 11:48 pm, John Robertson <s....RemoveThis@flippers.com> wrote:
>> Jeff wrote:
>>> On Feb 5, 12:13 am, John Robertson <s....RemoveThis@flippers.com> wrote:
>>>> Jeff wrote:
>>>>> On Feb 4, 8:03 am, "Mickey Johnson" <micks....RemoveThis@derbyworks.net> wrote:
>>>>>> You need to make sure you have a good strong +5 volts. If that voltage is
>>>>>> dropping the game will do what you are describing.
>>>>>> "Jeff" <jetuse....RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:050a618e-cf78-4bbe-9c0f-0831a52654f2@v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>> Hi;
>>>>>>> First the quick question:
>>>>>>> When first turned on, into the game about 40 or 50 seconds, the game
>>>>>>> will blink off and go back into attract mode.
>>>>>>> I place it in test and no errors reported. Thereafter during play, the
>>>>>>> game will blink off and not reset. Again test shows no errors but when
>>>>>>> placed back into normal, game will not play. Also, when game is
>>>>>>> malfunctioning, 2N3055 on A/R II gets hot. As the test shows that
>>>>>>> there are no RAM or ROM errors, what would do you think would cause
>>>>>>> this to occur?
>>>>>>> Now the long explaination:
>>>>>>> When I first started to troubleshoot this game, it played but the
>>>>>>> image was off the screen and even with the pots turned down all the
>>>>>>> way, you could not see the scores etc. Placing the game in test, gave
>>>>>>> the error code that C1 RAM was bad. I replaced that and proceeded with
>>>>>>> troubleshooting. I traced the display problem to a bad +15vdc
>>>>>>> regulator on the AVG PCB. I replaced all the regulators and
>>>>>>> electrolytic caps of both boards (just to make sure). Then the game
>>>>>>> would not play, in test though, the screen problem was solved, it was
>>>>>>> a normal size display but showed that ROM E1 was bad. I installed the
>>>>>>> replacement ROM and fired it up. Still no picture during regular play.
>>>>>>> I put it into test and received the ROM 2 and ROM 7 are bad error
>>>>>>> codes. I toggled between normal and test and got the game to come up,
>>>>>>> although it kept blinking out. The 2N3055 was getting hot on the ARII
>>>>>>> so I shut it down.
>>>>>>> I let it cool, came back to try again in test and now it showed 9 was
>>>>>>> bad, no longer 2 and 7. I reset the HS tables etc and then there were
>>>>>>> no errors during test!! I placed it back into normal and the game came
>>>>>>> up.
>>>>>>> I was in the back confirming voltages while the game was in attract
>>>>>>> mode and I heard the coin counter register a coin drop..!? When I went
>>>>>>> to the front, there were no credits on the game. I coined it up and
>>>>>>> started a game. I was playing for about 20 seconds or so then the game
>>>>>>> blinked out and reset to attract mode. I noticed that when the game
>>>>>>> was working properly, the 3055 did not get hot but when the game was
>>>>>>> malfunctioning, it got very warm.
>>>>>>> To date, I replaced the defective RAM C1 and EPROM E1 on the AVG PCB,
>>>>>>> replaced all electrolytic caps and voltage regulators on both boards,
>>>>>>> removed and cleaned all ICs', installed a rebuilt power brick and A/R
>>>>>>> II. I checked and confirmed all voltages on both boards, (the voltage
>>>>>>> reading is a little lower on the aux board than the AVG but it is the
>>>>>>> same way on my BZ).
>>>>>>> Any ideas on what would cause the game to malfunction during play but
>>>>>>> show no error codes during test.
>>>>>>> Looking for any ideas please.....
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>> I have +5.09vdc on the AVG PCB and +5.00 on the Aux board.
>>>>> I know the low voltage would cause malfunctioning but what would cause
>>>>> the transistor to get so hot?
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Jeff
>>>> Its a PASS transistor and they do tend to run hot. The real danger of
>>>> using an Atari linear supply is if that transistor shorts it will take
>>>> you game board with it.
>>>> I would recommend that you look into replacing the +5VDC with a weel
>>>> rated fan-cooled switching supply - when they fail they drop out...
>>>> John :-#)#
>>>> --
>>>> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
>>>> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
>>>> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
>>>> www.flippers.com
>>>> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
>>> John;
>>> I had rebuilt the A/R II and tested it before I installed it. The
>>> 2N3055 only get "really hot" when the game is malfunctioning, what
>>> would cause that?
>>> And are you saying that I should replace all my Atari games P/S'?
>>> That could be expensive, is it really necessary?
>>> Jeff
>> Hi Jeff,
>>
>> You either want to add a "Crowbar" a Transorb, or a really heavy duty
>> zener diode to protect your game board IF you consider it valuable...I
>> figure Red Baron is rare enough to have extra protection from naughty AR
>> boards.
>>
>> Note the 'weel rated fan-cooled power supply' should, of course, be
>> "well rated fan-cooled..." - hey, I'm getting over pnuemonia, give me a
>> break (ducking and not really looking for sympathy .
>>
>> Thinking further about why the pass transistor is only getting realy hot
>> when the game is malfunctioning leads me to suspect the pass resistor
>> has either a bad solder connection, or is opening internally when hot...
>> - I'd replace it before looking elsewhere.
>>
>> Do a search on transorb, crowbars, etc as protection devices - lots
>> written about them and they are easy to add as protection (well a
>> transorb is at least!). Note a MOV is NOT a Transorb (Transient
>> Absorber) which look not unlike fat diodes...
>>
>> John :-#)#
>>
>> --
>> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
>> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
>> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
>> www.flippers.com
>> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
>
> John;
> Thanks for the information, a lot to digest. I started downloading
> spec.sheets from Vishay and also documents on how to spec. out a TVS
> so it's gonna be a while before I finally know what to do and go about
> installing one. But until then, you said the "pass resistor" might be
> opening when hot, do you mean R24 - the 0.1ohm 7w WW on the A/RII?
> Thanks
> Jeff
Actually I was mistaken. Not having a schematic handy I was thinking of
the older pass resistors used in B&W games. So R24 is not a suspect.
When the transistor gets very hot, do other voltages on the regulator
board change? For example, if the main filter capacitor has a bad
connection or one of the main power diodes is problematic, then you
would see a change in the input voltage to the transistor. This can be
monitored across the "10.3VDC UNREG" test point and "SIG GRD". I would
check both the AC and DC values. They should normally not change much
other than tracking the changes in line voltage (1/10 volt change to
1VAC change in line voltage).
I would recommend that you check the connections on the logic boards - I
suspect you will find the edge connector gets hot, this will lead to
problems and is usually only solved with replacing the edge connector
and repairing the power pins on the PCB or... jumper the power (and
Sense) connections directly to the board through some Molex style
interconnect - not unlike how power is provided to computer motherboards.
I have done this on many Atari games back when they were commercially
viable and operators wanted a permanent fix to common connector power
connection issues. Rarely had any follow up problems after doing that
jumpering! We often replaced the Atari 5VDC system with a switching
power supply and used the 12VDC output to drive a cooling fan for the
switching supply.
John :-#)#
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." >> Stay informed about: TECH: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanati.. |
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Since: Nov 18, 2007
Posts: 74
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanation) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 7, 12:23 pm, John Robertson <s....TakeThisOut@flippers.com> wrote:
> Jeff wrote:
> > On Feb 5, 11:48 pm, John Robertson <s....TakeThisOut@flippers.com> wrote:
> >> Jeff wrote:
> >>> On Feb 5, 12:13 am, John Robertson <s....TakeThisOut@flippers.com> wrote:
> >>>> Jeff wrote:
> >>>>> On Feb 4, 8:03 am, "Mickey Johnson" <micks....TakeThisOut@derbyworks.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> You need to make sure you have a good strong +5 volts. If that voltage is
> >>>>>> dropping the game will do what you are describing.
> >>>>>> "Jeff" <jetuse....TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:050a618e-cf78-4bbe-9c0f-0831a52654f2@v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>>>> Hi;
> >>>>>>> First the quick question:
> >>>>>>> When first turned on, into the game about 40 or 50 seconds, the game
> >>>>>>> will blink off and go back into attract mode.
> >>>>>>> I place it in test and no errors reported. Thereafter during play, the
> >>>>>>> game will blink off and not reset. Again test shows no errors but when
> >>>>>>> placed back into normal, game will not play. Also, when game is
> >>>>>>> malfunctioning, 2N3055 on A/R II gets hot. As the test shows that
> >>>>>>> there are no RAM or ROM errors, what would do you think would cause
> >>>>>>> this to occur?
> >>>>>>> Now the long explaination:
> >>>>>>> When I first started to troubleshoot this game, it played but the
> >>>>>>> image was off the screen and even with the pots turned down all the
> >>>>>>> way, you could not see the scores etc. Placing the game in test, gave
> >>>>>>> the error code that C1 RAM was bad. I replaced that and proceeded with
> >>>>>>> troubleshooting. I traced the display problem to a bad +15vdc
> >>>>>>> regulator on the AVG PCB. I replaced all the regulators and
> >>>>>>> electrolytic caps of both boards (just to make sure). Then the game
> >>>>>>> would not play, in test though, the screen problem was solved, it was
> >>>>>>> a normal size display but showed that ROM E1 was bad. I installed the
> >>>>>>> replacement ROM and fired it up. Still no picture during regular play.
> >>>>>>> I put it into test and received the ROM 2 and ROM 7 are bad error
> >>>>>>> codes. I toggled between normal and test and got the game to come up,
> >>>>>>> although it kept blinking out. The 2N3055 was getting hot on the ARII
> >>>>>>> so I shut it down.
> >>>>>>> I let it cool, came back to try again in test and now it showed 9 was
> >>>>>>> bad, no longer 2 and 7. I reset the HS tables etc and then there were
> >>>>>>> no errors during test!! I placed it back into normal and the game came
> >>>>>>> up.
> >>>>>>> I was in the back confirming voltages while the game was in attract
> >>>>>>> mode and I heard the coin counter register a coin drop..!? When I went
> >>>>>>> to the front, there were no credits on the game. I coined it up and
> >>>>>>> started a game. I was playing for about 20 seconds or so then the game
> >>>>>>> blinked out and reset to attract mode. I noticed that when the game
> >>>>>>> was working properly, the 3055 did not get hot but when the game was
> >>>>>>> malfunctioning, it got very warm.
> >>>>>>> To date, I replaced the defective RAM C1 and EPROM E1 on the AVG PCB,
> >>>>>>> replaced all electrolytic caps and voltage regulators on both boards,
> >>>>>>> removed and cleaned all ICs', installed a rebuilt power brick and A/R
> >>>>>>> II. I checked and confirmed all voltages on both boards, (the voltage
> >>>>>>> reading is a little lower on the aux board than the AVG but it is the
> >>>>>>> same way on my BZ).
> >>>>>>> Any ideas on what would cause the game to malfunction during play but
> >>>>>>> show no error codes during test.
> >>>>>>> Looking for any ideas please.....
> >>>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>>> Jeff
> >>>>> I have +5.09vdc on the AVG PCB and +5.00 on the Aux board.
> >>>>> I know the low voltage would cause malfunctioning but what would cause
> >>>>> the transistor to get so hot?
> >>>>> Thanks
> >>>>> Jeff
> >>>> Its a PASS transistor and they do tend to run hot. The real danger of
> >>>> using an Atari linear supply is if that transistor shorts it will take
> >>>> you game board with it.
> >>>> I would recommend that you look into replacing the +5VDC with a weel
> >>>> rated fan-cooled switching supply - when they fail they drop out...
> >>>> John :-#)#
> >>>> --
> >>>> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
> >>>> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> >>>> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> >>>> www.flippers.com
> >>>> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
> >>> John;
> >>> I had rebuilt the A/R II and tested it before I installed it. The
> >>> 2N3055 only get "really hot" when the game is malfunctioning, what
> >>> would cause that?
> >>> And are you saying that I should replace all my Atari games P/S'?
> >>> That could be expensive, is it really necessary?
> >>> Jeff
> >> Hi Jeff,
>
> >> You either want to add a "Crowbar" a Transorb, or a really heavy duty
> >> zener diode to protect your game board IF you consider it valuable...I
> >> figure Red Baron is rare enough to have extra protection from naughty AR
> >> boards.
>
> >> Note the 'weel rated fan-cooled power supply' should, of course, be
> >> "well rated fan-cooled..." - hey, I'm getting over pnuemonia, give me a
> >> break (ducking and not really looking for sympathy .
>
> >> Thinking further about why the pass transistor is only getting realy hot
> >> when the game is malfunctioning leads me to suspect the pass resistor
> >> has either a bad solder connection, or is opening internally when hot...
> >> - I'd replace it before looking elsewhere.
>
> >> Do a search on transorb, crowbars, etc as protection devices - lots
> >> written about them and they are easy to add as protection (well a
> >> transorb is at least!). Note a MOV is NOT a Transorb (Transient
> >> Absorber) which look not unlike fat diodes...
>
> >> John :-#)#
>
> >> --
> >> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
> >> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> >> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> >> www.flippers.com
> >> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
>
> > John;
> > Thanks for the information, a lot to digest. I started downloading
> > spec.sheets from Vishay and also documents on how to spec. out a TVS
> > so it's gonna be a while before I finally know what to do and go about
> > installing one. But until then, you said the "pass resistor" might be
> > opening when hot, do you mean R24 - the 0.1ohm 7w WW on the A/RII?
> > Thanks
> > Jeff
>
> Actually I was mistaken. Not having a schematic handy I was thinking of
> the older pass resistors used in B&W games. So R24 is not a suspect.
>
> When the transistor gets very hot, do other voltages on the regulator
> board change? For example, if the main filter capacitor has a bad
> connection or one of the main power diodes is problematic, then you
> would see a change in the input voltage to the transistor. This can be
> monitored across the "10.3VDC UNREG" test point and "SIG GRD". I would
> check both the AC and DC values. They should normally not change much
> other than tracking the changes in line voltage (1/10 volt change to
> 1VAC change in line voltage).
>
> I would recommend that you check the connections on the logic boards - I
> suspect you will find the edge connector gets hot, this will lead to
> problems and is usually only solved with replacing the edge connector
> and repairing the power pins on the PCB or... jumper the power (and
> Sense) connections directly to the board through some Molex style
> interconnect - not unlike how power is provided to computer motherboards.
>
> I have done this on many Atari games back when they were commercially
> viable and operators wanted a permanent fix to common connector power
> connection issues. Rarely had any follow up problems after doing that
> jumpering! We often replaced the Atari 5VDC system with a switching
> power supply and used the 12VDC output to drive a cooling fan for the
> switching supply.
>
> John :-#)#
>
> John :-#)#
>
> --
> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> www.flippers.com
> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
John;
Finally finished reading up on TVSs'.
Really not much to it.
You only haver to take into account:Vmw; Ppp; Ipp; Id; Vc; Vbr; then
Voc and Isc. (almost forgot about the Temperature Coefficient). Last
but not least Rc.
I went through a couple of web sites to spec out a Silicon TVS and
decided to install a switcher instead..( who would have guessed).
I am going to run home runs from the edge connectors ( new pins) to
the switcher. I'll use the +5vdc; +12vdc and -5vdc from the switcher
and leave the +22vdc and -22vdc from the A/R II.
Is it OK to tie the ground of the A/R II to the ground of the
switcher, (NOT the FG) because it I don't, there won't be a ground for
the 22v.
Also, should I connect the +5vdc and + sense together as well as the
5v return to the - sense after I pull them from the edge connector or
should I just cap them????
Thanks again
Jeff >> Stay informed about: TECH: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanati.. |
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External
Since: Nov 18, 2007
Posts: 74
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanation) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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|
On Feb 8, 12:45 am, Jeff <jetuse... DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Feb 7, 12:23 pm, John Robertson <s... DeleteThis @flippers.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Jeff wrote:
> > > On Feb 5, 11:48 pm, John Robertson <s... DeleteThis @flippers.com> wrote:
> > >> Jeff wrote:
> > >>> On Feb 5, 12:13 am, John Robertson <s... DeleteThis @flippers.com> wrote:
> > >>>> Jeff wrote:
> > >>>>> On Feb 4, 8:03 am, "Mickey Johnson" <micks... DeleteThis @derbyworks.net> wrote:
> > >>>>>> You need to make sure you have a good strong +5 volts. If that voltage is
> > >>>>>> dropping the game will do what you are describing.
> > >>>>>> "Jeff" <jetuse... DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > >>>>>>news:050a618e-cf78-4bbe-9c0f-0831a52654f2@v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> > >>>>>>> Hi;
> > >>>>>>> First the quick question:
> > >>>>>>> When first turned on, into the game about 40 or 50 seconds, the game
> > >>>>>>> will blink off and go back into attract mode.
> > >>>>>>> I place it in test and no errors reported. Thereafter during play, the
> > >>>>>>> game will blink off and not reset. Again test shows no errors but when
> > >>>>>>> placed back into normal, game will not play. Also, when game is
> > >>>>>>> malfunctioning, 2N3055 on A/R II gets hot. As the test shows that
> > >>>>>>> there are no RAM or ROM errors, what would do you think would cause
> > >>>>>>> this to occur?
> > >>>>>>> Now the long explaination:
> > >>>>>>> When I first started to troubleshoot this game, it played but the
> > >>>>>>> image was off the screen and even with the pots turned down all the
> > >>>>>>> way, you could not see the scores etc. Placing the game in test, gave
> > >>>>>>> the error code that C1 RAM was bad. I replaced that and proceeded with
> > >>>>>>> troubleshooting. I traced the display problem to a bad +15vdc
> > >>>>>>> regulator on the AVG PCB. I replaced all the regulators and
> > >>>>>>> electrolytic caps of both boards (just to make sure). Then the game
> > >>>>>>> would not play, in test though, the screen problem was solved, it was
> > >>>>>>> a normal size display but showed that ROM E1 was bad. I installed the
> > >>>>>>> replacement ROM and fired it up. Still no picture during regular play.
> > >>>>>>> I put it into test and received the ROM 2 and ROM 7 are bad error
> > >>>>>>> codes. I toggled between normal and test and got the game to come up,
> > >>>>>>> although it kept blinking out. The 2N3055 was getting hot on the ARII
> > >>>>>>> so I shut it down.
> > >>>>>>> I let it cool, came back to try again in test and now it showed 9 was
> > >>>>>>> bad, no longer 2 and 7. I reset the HS tables etc and then there were
> > >>>>>>> no errors during test!! I placed it back into normal and the game came
> > >>>>>>> up.
> > >>>>>>> I was in the back confirming voltages while the game was in attract
> > >>>>>>> mode and I heard the coin counter register a coin drop..!? When I went
> > >>>>>>> to the front, there were no credits on the game. I coined it up and
> > >>>>>>> started a game. I was playing for about 20 seconds or so then the game
> > >>>>>>> blinked out and reset to attract mode. I noticed that when the game
> > >>>>>>> was working properly, the 3055 did not get hot but when the game was
> > >>>>>>> malfunctioning, it got very warm.
> > >>>>>>> To date, I replaced the defective RAM C1 and EPROM E1 on the AVG PCB,
> > >>>>>>> replaced all electrolytic caps and voltage regulators on both boards,
> > >>>>>>> removed and cleaned all ICs', installed a rebuilt power brick and A/R
> > >>>>>>> II. I checked and confirmed all voltages on both boards, (the voltage
> > >>>>>>> reading is a little lower on the aux board than the AVG but it is the
> > >>>>>>> same way on my BZ).
> > >>>>>>> Any ideas on what would cause the game to malfunction during play but
> > >>>>>>> show no error codes during test.
> > >>>>>>> Looking for any ideas please.....
> > >>>>>>> Thanks
> > >>>>>>> Jeff
> > >>>>> I have +5.09vdc on the AVG PCB and +5.00 on the Aux board.
> > >>>>> I know the low voltage would cause malfunctioning but what would cause
> > >>>>> the transistor to get so hot?
> > >>>>> Thanks
> > >>>>> Jeff
> > >>>> Its a PASS transistor and they do tend to run hot. The real danger of
> > >>>> using an Atari linear supply is if that transistor shorts it will take
> > >>>> you game board with it.
> > >>>> I would recommend that you look into replacing the +5VDC with a weel
> > >>>> rated fan-cooled switching supply - when they fail they drop out...
> > >>>> John :-#)#
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
> > >>>> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> > >>>> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> > >>>> www.flippers.com
> > >>>> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
> > >>> John;
> > >>> I had rebuilt the A/R II and tested it before I installed it. The
> > >>> 2N3055 only get "really hot" when the game is malfunctioning, what
> > >>> would cause that?
> > >>> And are you saying that I should replace all my Atari games P/S'?
> > >>> That could be expensive, is it really necessary?
> > >>> Jeff
> > >> Hi Jeff,
>
> > >> You either want to add a "Crowbar" a Transorb, or a really heavy duty
> > >> zener diode to protect your game board IF you consider it valuable...I
> > >> figure Red Baron is rare enough to have extra protection from naughty AR
> > >> boards.
>
> > >> Note the 'weel rated fan-cooled power supply' should, of course, be
> > >> "well rated fan-cooled..." - hey, I'm getting over pnuemonia, give me a
> > >> break (ducking and not really looking for sympathy .
>
> > >> Thinking further about why the pass transistor is only getting realy hot
> > >> when the game is malfunctioning leads me to suspect the pass resistor
> > >> has either a bad solder connection, or is opening internally when hot...
> > >> - I'd replace it before looking elsewhere.
>
> > >> Do a search on transorb, crowbars, etc as protection devices - lots
> > >> written about them and they are easy to add as protection (well a
> > >> transorb is at least!). Note a MOV is NOT a Transorb (Transient
> > >> Absorber) which look not unlike fat diodes...
>
> > >> John :-#)#
>
> > >> --
> > >> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
> > >> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> > >> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> > >> www.flippers.com
> > >> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
>
> > > John;
> > > Thanks for the information, a lot to digest. I started downloading
> > > spec.sheets from Vishay and also documents on how to spec. out a TVS
> > > so it's gonna be a while before I finally know what to do and go about
> > > installing one. But until then, you said the "pass resistor" might be
> > > opening when hot, do you mean R24 - the 0.1ohm 7w WW on the A/RII?
> > > Thanks
> > > Jeff
>
> > Actually I was mistaken. Not having a schematic handy I was thinking of
> > the older pass resistors used in B&W games. So R24 is not a suspect.
>
> > When the transistor gets very hot, do other voltages on the regulator
> > board change? For example, if the main filter capacitor has a bad
> > connection or one of the main power diodes is problematic, then you
> > would see a change in the input voltage to the transistor. This can be
> > monitored across the "10.3VDC UNREG" test point and "SIG GRD". I would
> > check both the AC and DC values. They should normally not change much
> > other than tracking the changes in line voltage (1/10 volt change to
> > 1VAC change in line voltage).
>
> > I would recommend that you check the connections on the logic boards - I
> > suspect you will find the edge connector gets hot, this will lead to
> > problems and is usually only solved with replacing the edge connector
> > and repairing the power pins on the PCB or... jumper the power (and
> > Sense) connections directly to the board through some Molex style
> > interconnect - not unlike how power is provided to computer motherboards.
>
> > I have done this on many Atari games back when they were commercially
> > viable and operators wanted a permanent fix to common connector power
> > connection issues. Rarely had any follow up problems after doing that
> > jumpering! We often replaced the Atari 5VDC system with a switching
> > power supply and used the 12VDC output to drive a cooling fan for the
> > switching supply.
>
> > John :-#)#
>
> > John :-#)#
>
> > --
> > (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
> > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> > Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> > www.flippers.com
> > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
>
> John;
> Finally finished reading up on TVSs'.
> Really not much to it.
> You only haver to take into account:Vmw; Ppp; Ipp; Id; Vc; Vbr; then
> Voc and Isc. (almost forgot about the Temperature Coefficient). Last
> but not least Rc.
> I went through a couple of web sites to spec out a Silicon TVS and
> decided to install a switcher instead..( who would have guessed).
> I am going to run home runs from the edge connectors ( new pins) to
> the switcher. I'll use the +5vdc; +12vdc and -5vdc from the switcher
> and leave the +22vdc and -22vdc from the A/R II.
> Is it OK to tie the ground of the A/R II to the ground of the
> switcher, (NOT the FG) because it I don't, there won't be a ground for
> the 22v.
> Also, should I connect the +5vdc and + sense together as well as the
> 5v return to the - sense after I pull them from the edge connector or
> should I just cap them????
> Thanks again
> Jeff
John;
I was just wondering about the the common ground between the switcher
and the A/R II, would it be OK. How did you do it??
Thanks again
Jeff >> Stay informed about: TECH: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanati.. |
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External
Since: Nov 18, 2007
Posts: 74
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:33 pm
Post subject: Red Baron Completed (sans side art) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Feb 8, 7:59 pm, Jeff <jetuse....DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Feb 8, 12:45 am, Jeff <jetuse....DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 7, 12:23 pm, John Robertson <s....DeleteThis@flippers.com> wrote:
>
> > > Jeff wrote:
> > > > On Feb 5, 11:48 pm, John Robertson <s....DeleteThis@flippers.com> wrote:
> > > >> Jeff wrote:
> > > >>> On Feb 5, 12:13 am, John Robertson <s....DeleteThis@flippers.com> wrote:
> > > >>>> Jeff wrote:
> > > >>>>> On Feb 4, 8:03 am, "Mickey Johnson" <micks....DeleteThis@derbyworks.net> wrote:
> > > >>>>>> You need to make sure you have a good strong +5 volts. If that voltage is
> > > >>>>>> dropping the game will do what you are describing.
> > > >>>>>> "Jeff" <jetuse....DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > > >>>>>>news:050a618e-cf78-4bbe-9c0f-0831a52654f2@v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> > > >>>>>>> Hi;
> > > >>>>>>> First the quick question:
> > > >>>>>>> When first turned on, into the game about 40 or 50 seconds, the game
> > > >>>>>>> will blink off and go back into attract mode.
> > > >>>>>>> I place it in test and no errors reported. Thereafter during play, the
> > > >>>>>>> game will blink off and notreset. Again test shows no errors but when
> > > >>>>>>> placed back into normal, game will not play. Also, when game is
> > > >>>>>>> malfunctioning, 2N3055 on A/R II gets hot. As the test shows that
> > > >>>>>>> there are no RAM or ROM errors, what would do you think would cause
> > > >>>>>>> this to occur?
> > > >>>>>>> Now the long explaination:
> > > >>>>>>> When I first started to troubleshoot this game, it played but the
> > > >>>>>>> image was off the screen and even with the pots turned down all the
> > > >>>>>>> way, you could not see the scores etc. Placing the game in test, gave
> > > >>>>>>> the error code that C1 RAM was bad. I replaced that and proceeded with
> > > >>>>>>> troubleshooting. I traced the display problem to a bad +15vdc
> > > >>>>>>> regulator on the AVG PCB. I replaced all the regulators and
> > > >>>>>>> electrolytic caps of both boards (just to make sure). Then the game
> > > >>>>>>> would not play, in test though, the screen problem was solved, it was
> > > >>>>>>> a normal size display but showed that ROM E1 was bad. I installed the
> > > >>>>>>> replacement ROM and fired it up. Still no picture during regular play.
> > > >>>>>>> I put it into test and received the ROM 2 and ROM 7 are bad error
> > > >>>>>>> codes. I toggled between normal and test and got the game to come up,
> > > >>>>>>> although it kept blinking out. The 2N3055 was getting hot on the ARII
> > > >>>>>>> so I shut it down.
> > > >>>>>>> I let it cool, came back to try again in test and now it showed 9 was
> > > >>>>>>> bad, no longer 2 and 7. Iresetthe HS tables etc and then there were
> > > >>>>>>> no errors during test!! I placed it back into normal and the game came
> > > >>>>>>> up.
> > > >>>>>>> I was in the back confirming voltages while the game was in attract
> > > >>>>>>> mode and I heard the coin counter register a coin drop..!? When I went
> > > >>>>>>> to the front, there were no credits on the game. I coined it up and
> > > >>>>>>> started a game. I was playing for about 20 seconds or so then the game
> > > >>>>>>> blinked out andresetto attract mode. I noticed that when the game
> > > >>>>>>> was working properly, the 3055 did not get hot but when the game was
> > > >>>>>>> malfunctioning, it got very warm.
> > > >>>>>>> To date, I replaced the defective RAM C1 and EPROM E1 on the AVG PCB,
> > > >>>>>>> replaced all electrolytic caps and voltage regulators on both boards,
> > > >>>>>>> removed and cleaned all ICs', installed a rebuilt power brick and A/R
> > > >>>>>>> II. I checked and confirmed all voltages on both boards, (the voltage
> > > >>>>>>> reading is a little lower on the aux board than the AVG but it is the
> > > >>>>>>> same way on my BZ).
> > > >>>>>>> Any ideas on what would cause the game to malfunction during play but
> > > >>>>>>> show no error codes during test.
> > > >>>>>>> Looking for any ideas please.....
> > > >>>>>>> Thanks
> > > >>>>>>> Jeff
> > > >>>>> I have +5.09vdc on the AVG PCB and +5.00 on the Aux board.
> > > >>>>> I know the low voltage would cause malfunctioning but what would cause
> > > >>>>> the transistor to get so hot?
> > > >>>>> Thanks
> > > >>>>> Jeff
> > > >>>> Its a PASS transistor and they do tend to run hot. The real danger of
> > > >>>> using an Atari linear supply is if that transistor shorts it will take
> > > >>>> you game board with it.
> > > >>>> I would recommend that you look into replacing the +5VDC with a weel
> > > >>>> rated fan-cooled switching supply - when they fail they drop out...
> > > >>>> John :-#)#
> > > >>>> --
> > > >>>> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
> > > >>>> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> > > >>>> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> > > >>>> www.flippers.com
> > > >>>> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
> > > >>> John;
> > > >>> I had rebuilt the A/R II and tested it before I installed it. The
> > > >>> 2N3055 only get "really hot" when the game is malfunctioning, what
> > > >>> would cause that?
> > > >>> And are you saying that I should replace all my Atari games P/S'?
> > > >>> That could be expensive, is it really necessary?
> > > >>> Jeff
> > > >> Hi Jeff,
>
> > > >> You either want to add a "Crowbar" a Transorb, or a really heavy duty
> > > >> zener diode to protect your game board IF you consider it valuable...I
> > > >> figureRedBaronis rare enough to have extra protection from naughty AR
> > > >> boards.
>
> > > >> Note the 'weel rated fan-cooled power supply' should, of course, be
> > > >> "well rated fan-cooled..." - hey, I'm getting over pnuemonia, give me a
> > > >> break (ducking and not really looking for sympathy .
>
> > > >> Thinking further about why the pass transistor is only getting realy hot
> > > >> when the game is malfunctioning leads me to suspect the pass resistor
> > > >> has either a bad solder connection, or is opening internally when hot...
> > > >> - I'd replace it before looking elsewhere.
>
> > > >> Do a search on transorb, crowbars, etc as protection devices - lots
> > > >> written about them and they are easy to add as protection (well a
> > > >> transorb is at least!). Note a MOV is NOT a Transorb (Transient
> > > >> Absorber) which look not unlike fat diodes...
>
> > > >> John :-#)#
>
> > > >> --
> > > >> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
> > > >> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> > > >> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> > > >> www.flippers.com
> > > >> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
>
> > > > John;
> > > > Thanks for the information, a lot to digest. I started downloading
> > > > spec.sheets from Vishay and also documents on how to spec. out a TVS
> > > > so it's gonna be a while before I finally know what to do and go about
> > > > installing one. But until then, you said the "pass resistor" might be
> > > > opening when hot, do you mean R24 - the 0.1ohm 7w WW on the A/RII?
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Jeff
>
> > > Actually I was mistaken. Not having a schematic handy I was thinking of
> > > the older pass resistors used in B&W games. So R24 is not a suspect.
>
> > > When the transistor gets very hot, do other voltages on the regulator
> > > board change? For example, if the main filter capacitor has a bad
> > > connection or one of the main power diodes is problematic, then you
> > > would see a change in the input voltage to the transistor. This can be
> > > monitored across the "10.3VDC UNREG" test point and "SIG GRD". I would
> > > check both the AC and DC values. They should normally not change much
> > > other than tracking the changes in line voltage (1/10 volt change to
> > > 1VAC change in line voltage).
>
> > > I would recommend that you check the connections on the logic boards - I
> > > suspect you will find the edge connector gets hot, this will lead to
> > > problems and is usually only solved with replacing the edge connector
> > > and repairing the power pins on the PCB or... jumper the power (and
> > > Sense) connections directly to the board through some Molex style
> > > interconnect - not unlike how power is provided to computer motherboards.
>
> > > I have done this on many Atari games back when they were commercially
> > > viable and operators wanted a permanent fix to common connector power
> > > connection issues. Rarely had any follow up problems after doing that
> > > jumpering! We often replaced the Atari 5VDC system with a switching
> > > power supply and used the 12VDC output to drive a cooling fan for the
> > > switching supply.
>
> > > John :-#)#
>
> > > John :-#)#
>
> > > --
> > > (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
> > > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> > > Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> > > www.flippers.com
> > > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
>
> > John;
> > Finally finished reading up on TVSs'.
> > Really not much to it.
> > You only haver to take into account:Vmw; Ppp; Ipp; Id; Vc; Vbr; then
> > Voc and Isc. (almost forgot about the Temperature Coefficient). Last
> > but not least Rc.
> > I went through a couple of web sites to spec out a Silicon TVS and
> > decided to install a switcher instead..( who would have guessed).
> > I am going to run home runs from the edge connectors ( new pins) to
> > the switcher. I'll use the +5vdc; +12vdc and -5vdc from the switcher
> > and leave the +22vdc and -22vdc from the A/R II.
> > Is it OK to tie the ground of the A/R II to the ground of the
> > switcher, (NOT the FG) because it I don't, there won't be a ground for
> > the 22v.
> > Also, should I connect the +5vdc and + sense together as well as the
> > 5v return to the - sense after I pull them from the edge connector or
> > should I just cap them????
> > Thanks again
> > Jeff
>
> John;
> I was just wondering about the the common ground between the switcher
> and the A/R II, would it be OK. How did you do it??
> Thanks again
> Jeff
I finally completed my RB.....
I could not take the pressure with the 2n3055 getting so hot so I took
it out of the equation.
I installed a switcher and ran home runs to the edge connector on the
AVG and Aux PCBs', ( 2X +5vdc and 2X +5vdc returns on each edge
connector).
I pulled the +5 , return and sense from P7 on the A/R II just to make
sure I don't have a problem.
Voltages are now steady, in fact the voltage on the Aux is now
slightly higher than on the AVG.
I played for an hour or so and there is no more "heat" smell in the
cab. Now I just have to spray the back door and button it up.
NICE!
I'm still waiting on Arch to get his new diggs completed and get back
to business so I can get my hands on a set of RB side art from him. I
wish him luck, it seems that he is having a difficult time out there.
Jeff >> Stay informed about: TECH: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanati.. |
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Since: Nov 18, 2007
Posts: 74
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanation) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 7, 1:23 pm, John Robertson <s... RemoveThis @flippers.com> wrote:
> Jeff wrote:
> > On Feb 5, 11:48 pm, John Robertson <s... RemoveThis @flippers.com> wrote:
> >> Jeff wrote:
> >>> On Feb 5, 12:13 am, John Robertson <s... RemoveThis @flippers.com> wrote:
> >>>> Jeff wrote:
> >>>>> On Feb 4, 8:03 am, "Mickey Johnson" <micks... RemoveThis @derbyworks.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> You need to make sure you have a good strong +5 volts. If that voltage is
> >>>>>> dropping the game will do what you are describing.
> >>>>>> "Jeff" <jetuse... RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:050a618e-cf78-4bbe-9c0f-0831a52654f2@v46g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>>>> Hi;
> >>>>>>> First the quick question:
> >>>>>>> When first turned on, into the game about 40 or 50 seconds, the game
> >>>>>>> will blink off and go back into attract mode.
> >>>>>>> I place it in test and no errors reported. Thereafter during play, the
> >>>>>>> game will blink off and not reset. Again test shows no errors but when
> >>>>>>> placed back into normal, game will not play. Also, when game is
> >>>>>>> malfunctioning, 2N3055 on A/R II gets hot. As the test shows that
> >>>>>>> there are no RAM or ROM errors, what would do you think would cause
> >>>>>>> this to occur?
> >>>>>>> Now the long explaination:
> >>>>>>> When I first started to troubleshoot this game, it played but the
> >>>>>>> image was off the screen and even with the pots turned down all the
> >>>>>>> way, you could not see the scores etc. Placing the game in test, gave
> >>>>>>> the error code that C1 RAM was bad. I replaced that and proceeded with
> >>>>>>> troubleshooting. I traced the display problem to a bad +15vdc
> >>>>>>> regulator on the AVG PCB. I replaced all the regulators and
> >>>>>>> electrolytic caps of both boards (just to make sure). Then the game
> >>>>>>> would not play, in test though, the screen problem was solved, it was
> >>>>>>> a normal size display but showed that ROM E1 was bad. I installed the
> >>>>>>> replacement ROM and fired it up. Still no picture during regular play.
> >>>>>>> I put it into test and received the ROM 2 and ROM 7 are bad error
> >>>>>>> codes. I toggled between normal and test and got the game to come up,
> >>>>>>> although it kept blinking out. The 2N3055 was getting hot on the ARII
> >>>>>>> so I shut it down.
> >>>>>>> I let it cool, came back to try again in test and now it showed 9 was
> >>>>>>> bad, no longer 2 and 7. I reset the HS tables etc and then there were
> >>>>>>> no errors during test!! I placed it back into normal and the game came
> >>>>>>> up.
> >>>>>>> I was in the back confirming voltages while the game was in attract
> >>>>>>> mode and I heard the coin counter register a coin drop..!? When I went
> >>>>>>> to the front, there were no credits on the game. I coined it up and
> >>>>>>> started a game. I was playing for about 20 seconds or so then the game
> >>>>>>> blinked out and reset to attract mode. I noticed that when the game
> >>>>>>> was working properly, the 3055 did not get hot but when the game was
> >>>>>>> malfunctioning, it got very warm.
> >>>>>>> To date, I replaced the defective RAM C1 and EPROM E1 on the AVG PCB,
> >>>>>>> replaced all electrolytic caps and voltage regulators on both boards,
> >>>>>>> removed and cleaned all ICs', installed a rebuilt power brick and A/R
> >>>>>>> II. I checked and confirmed all voltages on both boards, (the voltage
> >>>>>>> reading is a little lower on the aux board than the AVG but it is the
> >>>>>>> same way on my BZ).
> >>>>>>> Any ideas on what would cause the game to malfunction during play but
> >>>>>>> show no error codes during test.
> >>>>>>> Looking for any ideas please.....
> >>>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>>> Jeff
> >>>>> I have +5.09vdc on the AVG PCB and +5.00 on the Aux board.
> >>>>> I know the low voltage would cause malfunctioning but what would cause
> >>>>> the transistor to get so hot?
> >>>>> Thanks
> >>>>> Jeff
> >>>> Its a PASS transistor and they do tend to run hot. The real danger of
> >>>> using an Atari linear supply is if that transistor shorts it will take
> >>>> you game board with it.
> >>>> I would recommend that you look into replacing the +5VDC with a weel
> >>>> rated fan-cooled switching supply - when they fail they drop out...
> >>>> John :-#)#
> >>>> --
> >>>> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
> >>>> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> >>>> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> >>>> www.flippers.com
> >>>> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
> >>> John;
> >>> I had rebuilt the A/R II and tested it before I installed it. The
> >>> 2N3055 only get "really hot" when the game is malfunctioning, what
> >>> would cause that?
> >>> And are you saying that I should replace all my Atari games P/S'?
> >>> That could be expensive, is it really necessary?
> >>> Jeff
> >> Hi Jeff,
>
> >> You either want to add a "Crowbar" a Transorb, or a really heavy duty
> >> zener diode to protect your game board IF you consider it valuable...I
> >> figure Red Baron is rare enough to have extra protection from naughty AR
> >> boards.
>
> >> Note the 'weel rated fan-cooled power supply' should, of course, be
> >> "well rated fan-cooled..." - hey, I'm getting over pnuemonia, give me a
> >> break (ducking and not really looking for sympathy .
>
> >> Thinking further about why the pass transistor is only getting realy hot
> >> when the game is malfunctioning leads me to suspect the pass resistor
> >> has either a bad solder connection, or is opening internally when hot...
> >> - I'd replace it before looking elsewhere.
>
> >> Do a search on transorb, crowbars, etc as protection devices - lots
> >> written about them and they are easy to add as protection (well a
> >> transorb is at least!). Note a MOV is NOT a Transorb (Transient
> >> Absorber) which look not unlike fat diodes...
>
> >> John :-#)#
>
> >> --
> >> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
> >> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> >> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> >> www.flippers.com
> >> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
>
> > John;
> > Thanks for the information, a lot to digest. I started downloading
> > spec.sheets from Vishay and also documents on how to spec. out a TVS
> > so it's gonna be a while before I finally know what to do and go about
> > installing one. But until then, you said the "pass resistor" might be
> > opening when hot, do you mean R24 - the 0.1ohm 7w WW on the A/RII?
> > Thanks
> > Jeff
>
> Actually I was mistaken. Not having a schematic handy I was thinking of
> the older pass resistors used in B&W games. So R24 is not a suspect.
>
> When the transistor gets very hot, do other voltages on the regulator
> board change? For example, if the main filter capacitor has a bad
> connection or one of the main power diodes is problematic, then you
> would see a change in the input voltage to the transistor. This can be
> monitored across the "10.3VDC UNREG" test point and "SIG GRD". I would
> check both the AC and DC values. They should normally not change much
> other than tracking the changes in line voltage (1/10 volt change to
> 1VAC change in line voltage).
>
> I would recommend that you check the connections on the logic boards - I
> suspect you will find the edge connector gets hot, this will lead to
> problems and is usually only solved with replacing the edge connector
> and repairing the power pins on the PCB or... jumper the power (and
> Sense) connections directly to the board through some Molex style
> interconnect - not unlike how power is provided to computer motherboards.
>
> I have done this on many Atari games back when they were commercially
> viable and operators wanted a permanent fix to common connector power
> connection issues. Rarely had any follow up problems after doing that
> jumpering! We often replaced the Atari 5VDC system with a switching
> power supply and used the 12VDC output to drive a cooling fan for the
> switching supply.
>
> John :-#)#
>
> John :-#)#
>
> --
> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> www.flippers.com
> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
I finally completed my RB.....
I could not take the pressure with the 2n3055 getting so hot so I took
it out of the equation.
I installed a switcher and ran home runs to the edge connector on the
AVG and Aux PCBs', ( 2X +5vdc and 2X +5vdc returns on each edge
connector).
I pulled the +5 , return and sense from P7 on the A/R II just to make
sure I don't have a problem.
Voltages are now steady, in fact the voltage on the Aux is now
slightly higher than on the AVG.
I played for an hour or so and there is no more "heat" smell in the
cab. Now I just have to spray the back door and button it up.
NICE!
I'm still waiting on Arch to get his new diggs completed and get back
to business so I can get my hands on a set of RB side art from him. I
wish him luck, it seems that he is having a difficult time out there.
Jeff >> Stay informed about: TECH: Red Baron resetting (quick question - long explanati.. |
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