Survival skills (3e)

David Johnston wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:40:33 +0200, "Peter Knutsen (usenet)"
>>Non-stat-normalizers are also supposed to give +4 bonuses for routine
>>skill rolls, aren't they?
>
> Situations where you are forced to forage entirely off of unknown land
> with no carried supplies are non-routine.

I agree with that.

--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
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raven.TakeThisOut@westnet.poe.com wrote:
> "Peter Knutsen (usenet)" <peter.TakeThisOut@sagatafl.invalid> wrote:
> > copeab.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > raven.TakeThisOut@westnet.poe.com wrote:
> > >>Yes, that's the standard stat normalizer response.
> > >>
> > >>I don't buy it, of course, but that's fine if you throw in a +4 to the
> > >>vast majority of rolls.
> > >
> > > The vast majoruty of routine skill uses, yes.
>
> > Non-stat-normalizers are also supposed to give +4 bonuses for routine
> > skill rolls, aren't they?
>
> Yes, but they don't apply to rolls on the jobs table.

I don't use job tables for PCs; what happens during adventures is their
job. About the only thing I use job tables for is to figure out how
much it costs to hire an NPC and what the primary job skills of an NPC
should be.

Brandon
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raven RemoveThis @westnet.poe.com writes:

>"Peter Knutsen (usenet)" <peter RemoveThis @sagatafl.invalid> wrote:
>> copeab RemoveThis @yahoo.com wrote:
>> > raven RemoveThis @westnet.poe.com wrote:
>> >>Yes, that's the standard stat normalizer response.
>> >>
>> >>I don't buy it, of course, but that's fine if you throw in a +4 to the
>> >>vast majority of rolls.
>> >
>> > The vast majoruty of routine skill uses, yes.

>> Non-stat-normalizers are also supposed to give +4 bonuses for routine
>> skill rolls, aren't they?

>Yes, but they don't apply to rolls on the jobs table.


Doesn't the job roll require a critical failure for anything
bad to happen (except freelance jobs)?

--
"Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of sXXXch, Joe
... or the right of the people peaceably to XXXemble, and to Bay
peXXXion the government for a redress of grievances." Stanford
-- from the First Amendment to the US ConsXXXution University
 >> Stay informed about: Survival skills (3e) 

raven RemoveThis @westnet.poe.com writes:


>> Situations where you are forced to forage entirely off of unknown land
>> with no carried supplies are non-routine.

>Yep, and thus a 12 represents someone only barely acceptable to be guiding
>others.

Goodenuf Wilderness Hikes -- recommended by three out of four survivors!

--
"Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of sXXXch, Joe
... or the right of the people peaceably to XXXemble, and to Bay
peXXXion the government for a redress of grievances." Stanford
-- from the First Amendment to the US ConsXXXution University
 >> Stay informed about: Survival skills (3e) 

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 05:08:24 +0000 (UTC), jmbay.RemoveThis@Stanford.EDU (Joseph
Michael Bay) wrote:

>
>
>Doesn't the job roll require a critical failure for anything
>bad to happen (except freelance jobs)?

Yes, that's right. Failing your job roll does mean that you screwed
up and were chewed out that month but nothing substantive will happen.
 >> Stay informed about: Survival skills (3e) 

rgorman DeleteThis @block.net (David Johnston) writes:

>On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 05:08:24 +0000 (UTC), jmbay DeleteThis @Stanford.EDU (Joseph
>Michael Bay) wrote:


>>Doesn't the job roll require a critical failure for anything
>>bad to happen (except freelance jobs)?

>Yes, that's right. Failing your job roll does mean that you screwed
>up and were chewed out that month but nothing substantive will happen.

So a skill of 12 means that you get yelled at by your boss, on average,
about three times a year. Additionally, there's about a 1.5% chance
each month that you lose a month's wages, your job, and/or a bunch of
hit points, which is about 3 times as likely as someone with a higher
skill (if they only critically fail on 1.

Since you actually have to miss your skill roll by 5 to have any
substantive problem with the job, it's quite similar to having a
+4 skill modifier, at least in terms of the numbers.


--
"Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of sXXXch, Joe
... or the right of the people peaceably to XXXemble, and to Bay
peXXXion the government for a redress of grievances." Stanford
-- from the First Amendment to the US ConsXXXution University
 >> Stay informed about: Survival skills (3e) 

raven DeleteThis @westnet.poe.com wrote:
> copeab DeleteThis @yahoo.com <copeab DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't use job tables for PCs; what happens during adventures is their
> > job. About the only thing I use job tables for is to figure out how
> > much it costs to hire an NPC and what the primary job skills of an NPC
> > should be.
>
> Hmm, OK, but I hope you don't mind that I'm taking that as a point against
> the claims of the stat normaization cult.

What does not using job tables for PC have to do with stat
normalization?

Brandon
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raven RemoveThis @westnet.poe.com writes:

>Joseph Michael Bay <jmbay RemoveThis @stanford.edu> wrote:
>> raven RemoveThis @westnet.poe.com writes:
><snip>
>> >Yes, but they don't apply to rolls on the jobs table.

>> Doesn't the job roll require a critical failure for anything
>> bad to happen (except freelance jobs)?

>Well, hey there, Joe, nice to see you outside of afca.

Likewise.

><checks 3rd ed>

>Right you are, tho still, a +4 to the skill roll would alter the times
>that you hit a critical success or failure.

Yeah, it wouldn't happen on a 17. Unless your base skill were 11 or less.

--
"Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of sXXXch, Joe
... or the right of the people peaceably to XXXemble, and to Bay
peXXXion the government for a redress of grievances." Stanford
-- from the First Amendment to the US ConsXXXution University
 >> Stay informed about: Survival skills (3e) 

yeah, maybe...but if I miss my survival roll, and he makes his, I might
have some problems with thinking I'm right....mostly what making your
survival roll when he misses his will do is make you hedge a
little...say, wait on eating that tasty berry for a bit.
 >> Stay informed about: Survival skills (3e) 

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 05:39:31 +0000 (UTC), jmbay RemoveThis @Stanford.EDU (Joseph
Michael Bay) wrote:

>rgorman@block.net (David Johnston) writes:
>
>>On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 05:08:24 +0000 (UTC), jmbay RemoveThis @Stanford.EDU (Joseph
>>Michael Bay) wrote:
>
>
>>>Doesn't the job roll require a critical failure for anything
>>>bad to happen (except freelance jobs)?
>
>>Yes, that's right. Failing your job roll does mean that you screwed
>>up and were chewed out that month but nothing substantive will happen.
>
>So a skill of 12 means that you get yelled at by your boss, on average,
>about three times a year. Additionally, there's about a 1.5% chance
>each month that you lose a month's wages, your job, and/or a bunch of
>hit points, which is about 3 times as likely as someone with a higher
>skill (if they only critically fail on 1.
>
>Since you actually have to miss your skill roll by 5 to have any
>substantive problem with the job, it's quite similar to having a
>+4 skill modifier, at least in terms of the numbers.

Unless of course you have a freelance job where you can't count on
co-workes to pick up your slack. Which of course is something else to
consider. By rights there should be two survival rolls, one for the
leader (or his survival expert whose advice he followers) and one for
each individual hiker, looking out for himself. That means the
expert's failure should only affect the people who miss their personal
survival rolls.
 >> Stay informed about: Survival skills (3e) 

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 05:14:06 +0000 (UTC), jmbay.TakeThisOut@Stanford.EDU (Joseph
Michael Bay) wrote:

>raven@westnet.poe.com writes:
>
>
>>> Situations where you are forced to forage entirely off of unknown land
>>> with no carried supplies are non-routine.
>
>>Yep, and thus a 12 represents someone only barely acceptable to be guiding
>>others.
>
>Goodenuf Wilderness Hikes -- recommended by three out of four survivors!
>

Well, they probably won't die. But they won't be happy campers.
 >> Stay informed about: Survival skills (3e) 

and what happens when you fumble your roll depends on what you're
trying to do....if it's navigation, it could involve falling a short
distance....you were attempting to check the sun, and missed a cliff or
sinkhole or spiketrap, or whatever.

if it's attempting to find a safe place to camp, it could involve
animals eating you....

if it's finding food, you could find food that's too dangerous to kill,
or poisonous....say, cave bears or death cup mushrooms...

animals eating you isn't all bad; if you're tough enough, you might
kill something, and end up with food.

or you might be unprepared for a blizzard or something...or unprepared
for rain, which causes rust, and lowers your equipment's hit points...

or you run into headhunters....

or can't start a fire....
 >> Stay informed about: Survival skills (3e)