Supreme Commander or Forged Alliance?

Forged Alliance is good, introduces some new units (actually, OLD units
from Total Annihilation ). Most of the games I play online are with
friends vs the computer. In SC, we'd play those on the hardest level AI,
and usually win but struggle to do so. In SC:FA, we're playing on
Normal, 2 vs 2AI, and getting slapped around pretty hard. Why?

Rush tactics. The AI goes heavy into ground attack bots (many units now
amphibious) and bombers (better have multiple AA guns spaced apart!).
The good news is that, at least on Normal, the AI puts together NO
defense. Their main base doesn't have more than a token Tech1 point
defense, and no AA whatsoever. If you manage to hold off the rush and
put together an airforce, you'll get lots of bombing opportunities on
the enemy base and commander. BOOM!

Used to be, on a 4-player land-based map, the AI would build forward
bases with clusters of PD and AA, and tended to put in long-ranged
attack pieces like missiles and artillery. Not so much now.

Of course, this is just at 'Normal' - haven't done 'Hard' or one of the
other AI variants.

M.O.
http://www.madocowain.com
http://www.playmaille.com


John Doe wrote:
> Anybody get into Forged Alliance? Currently playing it?
>
> Anybody playing Supreme Commander?
>
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Supreme Commander or Forged Alliance? 

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:54:21 GMT, John Doe <jdoe.TakeThisOut@usenetlove.invalid>
wrote:

>
>Anybody get into Forged Alliance? Currently playing it?
>
>Anybody playing Supreme Commander?

Got FA. Some of the battles are *TOUGH*--there's one I have only
managed to beat on easy so far.

Beware of a nasty bug: When you pause a mine upgrade it keeps on
using mass. Don't start one unless you are in a position to finish
it.

There are only 6 real battles, not 18. There are some differences in
the game depending on what side you pick but it's not a big
difference.

SCU as resource creators is greatly nerfed. The mass production is
cut, the power production is 1/3 of what it used to be. You'll
actually end up building some tech-3 powerplants. The Seraphim SCU's
don't even have a resource production upgrade at all.

There is the most incredibly useless tech-4 building: The Paragon. 20
mass/1000 energy production. If killed it supposedly goes up in a
blast like a nuke. (I have yet to see one blow.) Two SCU's with the
resource upgrade give that much mass and twice the energy far cheaper
and they won't blow your base up.

There is a lot of adjustment to the tech 4's. The Mavor is still
devastating although sometimes it doesn't seem so good at finding
enemy commanders. I've watched it blow away most of the enemy base
first. The Czar now has *FAR* more hit points--you can actually send
them over an enemy base now. For some reason the Czar can hit subs
with it's missiles--did it used to work that way???

Promotions take far more reasonable numbers of kills now. I've had
tech-4's with the full 5 promotions.

I have had a lot of pathfinding problems with submersible
battleships--they have a considerable tendency to be unable to
negotiate a narrow piece of water, especially if you have more than
one.

Note that on the campaign maps you should have multiple tech 4 units
before completing a goal--when the map expands the results can be
nasty.

The Seraphim get a tech-4 bomber that packs a punch. The bomb appears
to do 10,000 points of damage over an area, although it appears that
if it hits a shield it only does it's damage to the shield even if
there were unshielded units in the blast range. Unlike the Czar it's
fast, I can't imagine killing one on the way in. If you have enough
of these to punch through and kill a commander I don't believe there
is any defense possible.

The UEF gets a tech-4 building that operates a small satellite. The
satellite doesn't seem to do a lot of damage but it's invulnerable, it
just keeps pecking away and there's nothing to do about it other than
kill the control building.

The AI seems a lot weaker than it used to be. I haven't played a lot
of games against it but so far every game against the normal AI has
been a turkey shoot. There is also a cheating AI that I can't figure
out how one plays against it--even going basically straight for tech
it's had tech-3 bombers over my base before I could build anything
tech 3.
 >> Stay informed about: Supreme Commander or Forged Alliance? 

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:54:21 GMT, John Doe <jdoe DeleteThis @usenetlove.invalid>
wrote:

>
>Anybody get into Forged Alliance? Currently playing it?
>
>Anybody playing Supreme Commander?

Got FA. Some of the battles are *TOUGH*--there's one I have only
managed to beat on easy so far.

Beware of a nasty bug: When you pause a mine upgrade it keeps on
using mass. Don't start one unless you are in a position to finish
it.

There are only 6 real battles, not 18. There are some differences in
the game depending on what side you pick but it's not a big
difference.

SCU as resource creators is greatly nerfed. The mass production is
cut, the power production is 1/3 of what it used to be. You'll
actually end up building some tech-3 powerplants. The Seraphim SCU's
don't even have a resource production upgrade at all.

There is the most incredibly useless tech-4 building: The Paragon. 20
mass/1000 energy production. If killed it supposedly goes up in a
blast like a nuke. (I have yet to see one blow.) Two SCU's with the
resource upgrade give that much mass and twice the energy far cheaper
and they won't blow your base up.

There is a lot of adjustment to the tech 4's. The Mavor is still
devastating although sometimes it doesn't seem so good at finding
enemy commanders. I've watched it blow away most of the enemy base
first. The Czar now has *FAR* more hit points--you can actually send
them over an enemy base now. For some reason the Czar can hit subs
with it's missiles--did it used to work that way???

Promotions take far more reasonable numbers of kills now. I've had
tech-4's with the full 5 promotions.

I have had a lot of pathfinding problems with submersible
battleships--they have a considerable tendency to be unable to
negotiate a narrow piece of water, especially if you have more than
one.

Note that on the campaign maps you should have multiple tech 4 units
before completing a goal--when the map expands the results can be
nasty.

The Seraphim get a tech-4 bomber that packs a punch. The bomb appears
to do 10,000 points of damage over an area, although it appears that
if it hits a shield it only does it's damage to the shield even if
there were unshielded units in the blast range. Unlike the Czar it's
fast, I can't imagine killing one on the way in. If you have enough
of these to punch through and kill a commander I don't believe there
is any defense possible.

The UEF gets a tech-4 building that operates a small satellite. The
satellite doesn't seem to do a lot of damage but it's invulnerable, it
just keeps pecking away and there's nothing to do about it other than
kill the control building.

The AI seems a lot weaker than it used to be. I haven't played a lot
of games against it but so far every game against the normal AI has
been a turkey shoot. There is also a cheating AI that I can't figure
out how one plays against it--even going basically straight for tech
it's had tech-3 bombers over my base before I could build anything
tech 3.
 >> Stay informed about: Supreme Commander or Forged Alliance? 

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:54:21 GMT, John Doe <jdoe RemoveThis @usenetlove.invalid>
wrote:

>
>Anybody get into Forged Alliance? Currently playing it?
>
>Anybody playing Supreme Commander?

Got FA. Some of the battles are *TOUGH*--there's one I have only
managed to beat on easy so far.

Beware of a nasty bug: When you pause a mine upgrade it keeps on
using mass. Don't start one unless you are in a position to finish
it.

There are only 6 real battles, not 18. There are some differences in
the game depending on what side you pick but it's not a big
difference.

SCU as resource creators is greatly nerfed. The mass production is
cut, the power production is 1/3 of what it used to be. You'll
actually end up building some tech-3 powerplants. The Seraphim SCU's
don't even have a resource production upgrade at all.

There is the most incredibly useless tech-4 building: The Paragon. 20
mass/1000 energy production. If killed it supposedly goes up in a
blast like a nuke. (I have yet to see one blow.) Two SCU's with the
resource upgrade give that much mass and twice the energy far cheaper
and they won't blow your base up.

There is a lot of adjustment to the tech 4's. The Mavor is still
devastating although sometimes it doesn't seem so good at finding
enemy commanders. I've watched it blow away most of the enemy base
first. The Czar now has *FAR* more hit points--you can actually send
them over an enemy base now. For some reason the Czar can hit subs
with it's missiles--did it used to work that way???

Promotions take far more reasonable numbers of kills now. I've had
tech-4's with the full 5 promotions.

I have had a lot of pathfinding problems with submersible
battleships--they have a considerable tendency to be unable to
negotiate a narrow piece of water, especially if you have more than
one.

Note that on the campaign maps you should have multiple tech 4 units
before completing a goal--when the map expands the results can be
nasty.

The Seraphim get a tech-4 bomber that packs a punch. The bomb appears
to do 10,000 points of damage over an area, although it appears that
if it hits a shield it only does it's damage to the shield even if
there were unshielded units in the blast range. Unlike the Czar it's
fast, I can't imagine killing one on the way in. If you have enough
of these to punch through and kill a commander I don't believe there
is any defense possible.

The UEF gets a tech-4 building that operates a small satellite. The
satellite doesn't seem to do a lot of damage but it's invulnerable, it
just keeps pecking away and there's nothing to do about it other than
kill the control building.

The AI seems a lot weaker than it used to be. I haven't played a lot
of games against it but so far every game against the normal AI has
been a turkey shoot. There is also a cheating AI that I can't figure
out how one plays against it--even going basically straight for tech
it's had tech-3 bombers over my base before I could build anything
tech 3.
 >> Stay informed about: Supreme Commander or Forged Alliance? 

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:54:21 GMT, John Doe <jdoe RemoveThis @usenetlove.invalid>
wrote:

>
>Anybody get into Forged Alliance? Currently playing it?
>
>Anybody playing Supreme Commander?

Got FA. Some of the battles are *TOUGH*--there's one I have only
managed to beat on easy so far.

Beware of a nasty bug: When you pause a mine upgrade it keeps on
using mass. Don't start one unless you are in a position to finish
it.

There are only 6 real battles, not 18. There are some differences in
the game depending on what side you pick but it's not a big
difference.

SCU as resource creators is greatly nerfed. The mass production is
cut, the power production is 1/3 of what it used to be. You'll
actually end up building some tech-3 powerplants. The Seraphim SCU's
don't even have a resource production upgrade at all.

There is the most incredibly useless tech-4 building: The Paragon. 20
mass/1000 energy production. If killed it supposedly goes up in a
blast like a nuke. (I have yet to see one blow.) Two SCU's with the
resource upgrade give that much mass and twice the energy far cheaper
and they won't blow your base up.

There is a lot of adjustment to the tech 4's. The Mavor is still
devastating although sometimes it doesn't seem so good at finding
enemy commanders. I've watched it blow away most of the enemy base
first. The Czar now has *FAR* more hit points--you can actually send
them over an enemy base now. For some reason the Czar can hit subs
with it's missiles--did it used to work that way???

Promotions take far more reasonable numbers of kills now. I've had
tech-4's with the full 5 promotions.

I have had a lot of pathfinding problems with submersible
battleships--they have a considerable tendency to be unable to
negotiate a narrow piece of water, especially if you have more than
one.

Note that on the campaign maps you should have multiple tech 4 units
before completing a goal--when the map expands the results can be
nasty.

The Seraphim get a tech-4 bomber that packs a punch. The bomb appears
to do 10,000 points of damage over an area, although it appears that
if it hits a shield it only does it's damage to the shield even if
there were unshielded units in the blast range. Unlike the Czar it's
fast, I can't imagine killing one on the way in. If you have enough
of these to punch through and kill a commander I don't believe there
is any defense possible.

The UEF gets a tech-4 building that operates a small satellite. The
satellite doesn't seem to do a lot of damage but it's invulnerable, it
just keeps pecking away and there's nothing to do about it other than
kill the control building.

The AI seems a lot weaker than it used to be. I haven't played a lot
of games against it but so far every game against the normal AI has
been a turkey shoot. There is also a cheating AI that I can't figure
out how one plays against it--even going basically straight for tech
it's had tech-3 bombers over my base before I could build anything
tech 3.
 >> Stay informed about: Supreme Commander or Forged Alliance? 

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 12:46:02 -0800, Loren Pechtel wrote:

> There is the most incredibly useless tech-4 building: The Paragon. 20
> mass/1000 energy production. If killed it supposedly goes up in a

The Paragon gives as much mass and energy as your economy demands, up
to a point (which I never hit the limit). If you looked at the output
when it wasn't really needed, you'd wonder what it was for. But get
yourself 20 SCUs with build speed upgrades and have them build three
dozen T4 units, and suddenly the Paragon is the most useful building
you have.

And it DOES blow like a nuke.

The Paragon is not really useful in multiplayer, but against the CPU
it is great. Once you have one you can build a massive T4 force is
very little time.

--
Lance Corporal "Hammer" Schultz
Promote someone else.
 >> Stay informed about: Supreme Commander or Forged Alliance? 

"Lance Corporal \"Hammer\" Schultz" <starfist.at.gmail.dot.com>
wrote:

> Not any more -- I can't stand to go back to the original UI. The
> Forged Alliance UI is vastly superior.

That figures, being a redo of a highly technical work.

Sounds fun. The interface is the single most important element of
a computer strategy game. And that's Chris Taylor's forte. In my
opinion.

> Also, the balancing is different (economy elements), so when I did
> go back to vanilla SupCom, I couldn't get my game started well
> because I have already adapted to Forged Alliance. Initial build
> order is significantly different (better) in FA.

Thanks.










--
Thanks to the replies.
 >> Stay informed about: Supreme Commander or Forged Alliance? 

On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:54:21 GMT, John Doe <jdoe.DeleteThis@usenetlove.invalid>
wrote:

>
>Anybody get into Forged Alliance? Currently playing it?
>
>Anybody playing Supreme Commander?

Got FA. Some of the battles are *TOUGH*--there's one I have only
managed to beat on easy so far.

Beware of a nasty bug: When you pause a mine upgrade it keeps on
using mass. Don't start one unless you are in a position to finish
it.

There are only 6 real battles, not 18. There are some differences in
the game depending on what side you pick but it's not a big
difference.

SCU as resource creators is greatly nerfed. The mass production is
cut, the power production is 1/3 of what it used to be. You'll
actually end up building some tech-3 powerplants. The Seraphim SCU's
don't even have a resource production upgrade at all.

There is the most incredibly useless tech-4 building: The Paragon. 20
mass/1000 energy production. If killed it supposedly goes up in a
blast like a nuke. (I have yet to see one blow.) Two SCU's with the
resource upgrade give that much mass and twice the energy far cheaper
and they won't blow your base up.

There is a lot of adjustment to the tech 4's. The Mavor is still
devastating although sometimes it doesn't seem so good at finding
enemy commanders. I've watched it blow away most of the enemy base
first. The Czar now has *FAR* more hit points--you can actually send
them over an enemy base now. For some reason the Czar can hit subs
with it's missiles--did it used to work that way???

Promotions take far more reasonable numbers of kills now. I've had
tech-4's with the full 5 promotions.

I have had a lot of pathfinding problems with submersible
battleships--they have a considerable tendency to be unable to
negotiate a narrow piece of water, especially if you have more than
one.

Note that on the campaign maps you should have multiple tech 4 units
before completing a goal--when the map expands the results can be
nasty.

The Seraphim get a tech-4 bomber that packs a punch. The bomb appears
to do 10,000 points of damage over an area, although it appears that
if it hits a shield it only does it's damage to the shield even if
there were unshielded units in the blast range. Unlike the Czar it's
fast, I can't imagine killing one on the way in. If you have enough
of these to punch through and kill a commander I don't believe there
is any defense possible.

The UEF gets a tech-4 building that operates a small satellite. The
satellite doesn't seem to do a lot of damage but it's invulnerable, it
just keeps pecking away and there's nothing to do about it other than
kill the control building.

The AI seems a lot weaker than it used to be. I haven't played a lot
of games against it but so far every game against the normal AI has
been a turkey shoot. There is also a cheating AI that I can't figure
out how one plays against it--even going basically straight for tech
it's had tech-3 bombers over my base before I could build anything
tech 3.
 >> Stay informed about: Supreme Commander or Forged Alliance? 

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:47:36 -0600, "Lance Corporal \"Hammer\" Schultz"
<starfist.at.gmail.dot.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 12:46:02 -0800, Loren Pechtel wrote:
>
>> There is the most incredibly useless tech-4 building: The Paragon. 20
>> mass/1000 energy production. If killed it supposedly goes up in a
>
>The Paragon gives as much mass and energy as your economy demands, up
>to a point (which I never hit the limit). If you looked at the output
>when it wasn't really needed, you'd wonder what it was for. But get
>yourself 20 SCUs with build speed upgrades and have them build three
>dozen T4 units, and suddenly the Paragon is the most useful building
>you have.
>
>And it DOES blow like a nuke.
>
>The Paragon is not really useful in multiplayer, but against the CPU
>it is great. Once you have one you can build a massive T4 force is
>very little time.

I guess I need to play with it some more then.
 >> Stay informed about: Supreme Commander or Forged Alliance? 

Loren Pechtel <lorenpechtel RemoveThis @hotmail.invalid.com> wrote:

.... [the fifth duplicate post, 12 hours after the first]

Anybody else see that? His newsreader? His server? My server?
Mainly curious.
 >> Stay informed about: Supreme Commander or Forged Alliance? 

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:48:51 GMT, John Doe wrote:

> Loren Pechtel <lorenpechtel DeleteThis @hotmail.invalid.com> wrote:
>
> ... [the fifth duplicate post, 12 hours after the first]
>
> Anybody else see that? His newsreader? His server? My server?
> Mainly curious.

I saw it here.

--
Lance Corporal "Hammer" Schultz
Promote someone else.
 >> Stay informed about: Supreme Commander or Forged Alliance? 

On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:47:36 -0600, "Lance Corporal \"Hammer\" Schultz"
<starfist.at.gmail.dot.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 12:46:02 -0800, Loren Pechtel wrote:
>
>> There is the most incredibly useless tech-4 building: The Paragon. 20
>> mass/1000 energy production. If killed it supposedly goes up in a
>
>The Paragon gives as much mass and energy as your economy demands, up
>to a point (which I never hit the limit). If you looked at the output
>when it wasn't really needed, you'd wonder what it was for. But get
>yourself 20 SCUs with build speed upgrades and have them build three
>dozen T4 units, and suddenly the Paragon is the most useful building
>you have.
>
>And it DOES blow like a nuke.
>
>The Paragon is not really useful in multiplayer, but against the CPU
>it is great. Once you have one you can build a massive T4 force is
>very little time.

Yup--it works wonders. I just played the last battle of the campaign
on hard. I built *ONLY* tech-4's.

The blast is certainly powerful--I accidentally killed the AI's
paragon with some saucers--and it blew them out of the sky.
 >> Stay informed about: Supreme Commander or Forged Alliance? 

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:48:51 GMT, John Doe <jdoe RemoveThis @usenetlove.invalid>
wrote:

>Loren Pechtel <lorenpechtel RemoveThis @hotmail.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>... [the fifth duplicate post, 12 hours after the first]
>
>Anybody else see that? His newsreader? His server? My server?
>Mainly curious.

Server. I saw it happening but I didn't realize what was going on
until the damage was done. The server kept giving a timeout when it
actually got the message. After 4 failures I cancelled it. The next
time I posted messages it was still sitting there and got sent.
 >> Stay informed about: Supreme Commander or Forged Alliance?