Super High Speed Hulls

Sable Wvyern wrote:
> Having started Planets playing Stormers and studying up on everything I
> can find on them, I've recently moved on to a search for a second race
> to try out.
>
> In my travels, I've come across hull speeds in excess of 190LY for some
> Arzanny and IMT vessels. I cannot find anything that tells me how these
> hulls ever achieve these speeds, however.
>
> At first I thought that the Arczanny Gravitonic Accelerator might be
> factored into the hull-speeds, but this device is missing from some
> Arczanny ships with 400LY speeds; and completely missing from the IMT
> ship-list, IIRC.
>
> So, would anyone care to enlighten me on how to achieve speeds in
> excess of 190LY/turn?

There are a few Aczanny hulls with hull speeds of 400 and no Gravitonic
Accel.
With these hulls max speed is 190 when equiped with transwarp engines.
But they have the advantage of 400 speed in the combat vcr.

That should be an advantage. However with the current vcr high speed is
not
an advantage. If the combat vcr ever gets completely fixed then you
will see
a combat advantage to those hulls with a 400 speed inside a combat vcr.
Until then- that number has no meaning if the hull lacks a GA device.

The Aczanny also get a evasive bonus during combat but it is a factor
of the engine
type installed not the hull max speed. I for one think that the evasive
bonus
should use the hull max speed to figure the bonus. Why?
Because as of right now the evasive bonus for the Aczanny is more or
less a joke.
In battle it does virtually nothing to help the Aczanny survive a
battle.

I have done extensive research on this pitting Aczanny owned ships
against
the same type and same armed ship owned by a different race to see if
the
Aczanny race evasive bonus actually made any difference in the battle
outcome.

And the result was virtually no difference in battle outcome. The
difference
was less than the random outcome of the randomizer function of combat
routine. In fact since the allien hulls fight poorly routine was added
to the game
now that switch actually makes far more difference in combat than does
the Aczanny race evasive bonus when pitting 2 of the same Aczanny ships
against each other in which one is owned by a different race.

So why is this so? Shouldn't the evasive bonus that the Aczanny get
actually
have some impact in the combat vcr? I think so but then that is just me
talking.
In 4 years I have had no luck in trying to convince Tim or the race
designer
that this needs to be fixed. In the race designers defense he does have
a race
upgrade awaiting Tim to adapt it to the game. But that design upgrade
does nothing
to fix the evasive bonus. And in fact with the evolving combat vcr code
this upgrade
is already out of date and will get worse for the Aczanny as the vcr
code changes.

My recomendation find another race to play.
 >> Stay informed about: Super High Speed Hulls 

Lord Lancelot writes
>For the IMT, make sure you have the latest race pack.
>
>In my raceview , they have "only" 2 ships above 190ly warp speed.
>
>Midshipman Gig Tech 1 220ly and has G.A
>Veeps Gig Tech 4 220ly and has NO G.A

An interesting error arising from when we split the Gig into two types,
because it was "too good" having one low tech ship with all those
devices. We ought to reduce the Veeps Gig to 190LY or something since it
no longer has the Grav Acc device.

The Great Pyramid is also very fast. It goes 180 according to Raceview,
but we found it can go even faster than its nominal max hull speed when
you turn on its Grav Acc.
--
Paul Honigmann
 >> Stay informed about: Super High Speed Hulls 

Grav Accelerator always doubles the speed.

"KlingonKommand" <Paul.RemoveThis@nurk.fnord> wrote in message
news:8MpOFSDl5lZEFwUV@furfur.demon.co.uk...
> Lord Lancelot writes
>>For the IMT, make sure you have the latest race pack.
>>
>>In my raceview , they have "only" 2 ships above 190ly warp speed.
>>
>>Midshipman Gig Tech 1 220ly and has G.A
>>Veeps Gig Tech 4 220ly and has NO G.A
>
> An interesting error arising from when we split the Gig into two types,
> because it was "too good" having one low tech ship with all those devices.
> We ought to reduce the Veeps Gig to 190LY or something since it no longer
> has the Grav Acc device.
>
> The Great Pyramid is also very fast. It goes 180 according to Raceview,
> but we found it can go even faster than its nominal max hull speed when
> you turn on its Grav Acc.
> --
> Paul Honigmann
 >> Stay informed about: Super High Speed Hulls 

So, for non-hyp hulls, 190 is the maximum speed without some device
that specifically increases that, and any indication to the contrary is
an error.

Thanks for all the replies.
 >> Stay informed about: Super High Speed Hulls 

In general, maximum speed is either that of the engine installed, or
that of the hull; whichever is the Lesser.

I believe the Gravitonic Accelerator is the only way to exceed an
engine's max Speed. From the Pyramid information given above, I
believe that the GA does two things. It doubles the Engines max speed,
and the Hulls max speed.

So, I am led to believe, that any hull speed greater than 190 is
useless (unless it is supposed to affect VCR results, as mentioned
above).

Taking the Privateer Meteor, I believe that if its max speed was set to
190, it would still be able to travel 380 ly, not counting Hyp.
Testing the Pyramid with Transwarps, and checking to see if its true
max speed is 360, should confirm my hypothesis.
 >> Stay informed about: Super High Speed Hulls 

The ECM bonus vs fighters is currently broken, but should be fixed in
the next host release.

Magik
 >> Stay informed about: Super High Speed Hulls 

Sebastain,

I know that is what the formula says.
But try an experiment.
Give the same ship with the same loadout to the Aczanny and the
Centaurs.
Let them fight in a battle without alien hulls fight poorly.
See if their is any noticable significant difference in the battle.
If the Aczanny evasive bonus is working then you should see the aczanny
owned
ship fair better in every fight against itself because the same ship
when owned
by a different race does not get the evasive bonus. Try it then tell me
the evasive bonus is
working!
 >> Stay informed about: Super High Speed Hulls 

To clarify:

The Aczanny bonus IS working. You will probably see no difference sice the
max evasive overhang (attack bonus of enemy - your evasive bonus) is 130
against ships and 90 against fighters.
..
The formula for ships is
Evasive Modiver = (150 - Evasive Bonus+ Attack bonus) / 100
with a min of 0.2

and for fighter

Evasion Modifier = (100 - target's evasive mod + fighter's attack mod) / 100
Minimum of 0.1

You´ll see a difference if fighting ships with (high) attack bonus.

The Hull speed is always the ships speed in combat, even if the ship has no
engines mounted.

The hull speed also determins the max speed the ship can go outside VCR.
There are technics to bypass this limit, but I think they´re not intended.

Greetings
Sebastian
 >> Stay informed about: Super High Speed Hulls 

Sebastian wrote:
> The hull speed also determins the max speed the ship can go outside VCR.
> There are technics to bypass this limit, but I think they´re not intended.

Well, as Paul H. pointed out above, a GA will, at least in some cases,
allow you to go faster than the max hull speed, as a Great Pyramid with
a max hull speed of 180 can actually go 360 with GA on. If only it
could multi-tow...

-- Karnak Prime
 >> Stay informed about: Super High Speed Hulls 

Maybe I am saying this wrong.
The exotic tech jammer ECM A which gives a +10 evasive bonus has
more effect in a battle than does the Aczanny evasive bonus when using
transwarp engines. This is done in testing. Regardless of the formula
this was tested in scripted game
not diplomat.
Before Alien hulls fight poorly was added.
I gave an Aczanny ship to the centaurs with Jammer A turned on.
Same exact ship with transwarps for the Aczanny without jammer A.
The Centaur owned ship always won every combat. with a fair margin
of armor left. Neither ship had any pd. Both ships were identical.
The Aczanny evasive formula should give better results than this.

What I expect is for the Aczanny evasive bonus to be at least equal in
the
combat vcr effect to that of both ECM jammer A + B of the exotic tech.
Somehow the evasive bonus is being eroded during the host function or
being given to the opposing
race much like the HG bonus was actually working in reverse until
someone found the bug.
The Aczanny evasive bonus should work better and perhaps changed so
that the Aczanny
have to have 2 or more HG on board to activate the evasive bonus.

I say this because some might complain if the Aczanny evasive bonus
really had an effect
in the combat vcr equal to Jammer A+ B. So the HG onboard would be a
way to mitigate it.
Or 5 HG per ship in order to use the Aczanny evasive bonus.
 >> Stay informed about: Super High Speed Hulls 

Yes I am aware of the difference between the jammer device and the race
evasive bonus.
So for testing do not use an Aczanny ship with the jammer device or if
you do, do not turn it on
for that battle test.
 >> Stay informed about: Super High Speed Hulls 

Lets use the Peregrin its evasive rating is 98.
If you give it transwarps it gets a 48 bonus to evasiveness.
I think Tim once explained it like this no ship is unhittable.
So I think the 48 is used as a percentage to close the gap on 100.
Then the Peregrin becomes 98 + (48% of the remaining 2)=1
Or 98 +1 = 99 evasive.
Compare that to the Zikir with a native evasive of 125.

Oddly enough if the Peregrin evasive was additive and we had
a 146 evasive with transwarps and it has a 47 attack bonus
it should be a great swarmer. add in ECM A + B exotics
evasive should become 176.
and perhaps an Aczanny hull with the jammer device and the
Peregrin should be the best anti fighter ship even with its only 2 pd
slots. But test it... It does not work out... why???

Test the Zikir and the Peregrin as an anti fighter platform...
what do you get??? which is better? why?
 >> Stay informed about: Super High Speed Hulls 

The "no ship is unhittable" stems from the fact that evasive and attack
modifiers adjust the odds to hit a target down to a minimum of 20%. So
in extreme situations where you are fighting head-to-head with another
enemy with extrememly high evasive bonus then you will be equal because
you will both only modify the odds down to 20% of their potential. In
ship to ship combat, the below holds true.

(150 - evasive modifier of target + attack modifier of attacker) / 100
Which can not be higher lower than .2

Odds to hit are modified by PTT vs Holo decoys, range to target, the
calcuation above, special hulls, special races, special races using
specific weapons (like Azcanny mass driver), and experience.

Magik
 >> Stay informed about: Super High Speed Hulls