Stairs are too powerful

"Haakon Studebaker" <heptapod DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A1C6C36888heptapodgmailcom@216.196.97.142...

> ha ha ha oh wow



And trying to go downstairs/upstairs ought to have a chance of meeting a
random monster going the other way. Like a bag of tricks.

Could also have keys be necessary to open stairs, and then have the key
disappear when used. But credit cards could be rechargable with a scroll of
charging. Or a wish.
 >> Stay informed about: Stairs are too powerful 

On 2008-01-05, AngleWyrm <anglewyrm.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Have you noticed that just walking down stairs moves a player to the next
> level? Also, they're not balanced: A player can escape from any monster just
> by running away.

False. Some monsters ('stalkers') will follow the player down stairs
and ladders, and even through level teleports and magic portals.

'grep M2_STALK monst.c | wc -l' claims there are 86 such monsters.

> So here's my suggestions:

Here's mine. Research first, YANI later.

--
Derek

Game info and change log: http://sporkhack.com
Beta Server: telnet://sporkhack.com
IRC: irc.freenode.net, #sporkhack
 >> Stay informed about: Stairs are too powerful 

Derek Ray <derek DeleteThis @moot.its.only.a.spamtrap.org> wrote:
>On 2008-01-05, AngleWyrm <anglewyrm DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>> So here's my suggestions:
>
>Here's mine. Research first, YANI later.

I'm afraid you've been trolled.
--
\_\/_/ some girls wander by mistake into the mess that scalpels make
\ / are you the teachers of my heart? we teach old hearts to break
\/ --- Leonard Cohen, "Teachers"
 >> Stay informed about: Stairs are too powerful 

On 2008-01-05, Martin Read <mpread.DeleteThis@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Derek Ray <derek.DeleteThis@moot.its.only.a.spamtrap.org> wrote:
>>On 2008-01-05, AngleWyrm <anglewyrm.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> So here's my suggestions:
>>Here's mine. Research first, YANI later.
> I'm afraid you've been trolled.

Upon review, that appears to be true. IHBT. IHL. IHAND.

(And TL;DR for the OP, or I probably would've noticed

--
Derek

Game info and change log: http://sporkhack.com
Beta Server: telnet://sporkhack.com
IRC: irc.freenode.net, #sporkhack
 >> Stay informed about: Stairs are too powerful 

"Martin Read" <mpread.TakeThisOut@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:ksk*EF-3r@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> Derek Ray <derek.TakeThisOut@moot.its.only.a.spamtrap.org> wrote:
>>On 2008-01-05, AngleWyrm <anglewyrm.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> So here's my suggestions:
>>
>>Here's mine. Research first, YANI later.
>
> I'm afraid you've been trolled.

eh, sorry 'bout that. Mostly poking fun at the idea that making things
ineffectual/impotent/useless is game design. When really, it's just
expressing personal ineffectiveness/impotence/uselessness.

--
AngleWyrm,killed by a kitten called Fritz in the Dungeons of Doom on level 2
Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha Score: 1080
 >> Stay informed about: Stairs are too powerful 

AngleWyrm wrote:
> Have you noticed that just walking down stairs moves a player to the next
> level?

I apparently have problems to understand that sentence in full depth,
but take the risk to extend the rest of the posting, anyway... :-}

> Also, they're not balanced:

Right. Moving up a stair is not always possible, but moving down is.

> A player can escape from any monster just by running away.

(That statement is not correct, unfortunately. Anyway...)

Fleeing down stairs should save you a turn because gravity supports it.
Though, the way up will again be unbalanced. Sigh.

> And any damage done by falling down stairs can be
> completely avoided, just by making several trips.

(What kind of trips have you done?

But, yes, why not; use the (optionally counted) travel command if you
like to spend a couple turns to descend any stairs.

> So here's my suggestions:
> * Stairs shouldn't work all the time. There should be a 2/3 chance that
> nothing happens,

Right. My vote is that even an ordinary step on any level should not work
reliably; would make the game much more surprising and thrilling. ;-P

> and monsters get a free attack while the player is
> attempting to use them. Maybe they are really long stairs.

YANI: We should introduce different types of stairs; ordinary straight
stairs, and circular (corkscrew) stairs which make you confused upon
reaching the bottom, and escalators which become active as soon as you
enter the stair square.

What about elevators?!
"Hello Janis, welcome to NetHack! You are a neutral male human Tourist."
"There's a lift here. Push which button?" - M
"You arrive at Moloch's Sanctum."

> * They shouldn't be free. The Stair Troll could charge a fee to use them,

This guy is callel the Toll Troll.

> taking either a percentage of gold (with a minimum of oh 100 zorkmids), or a
> magic item from inventory.

Or condemn you to become a slave working for him if you're impoverished;
then your character becomes the pet of the NPC until going feral. (Hope
that the Toll Troll has no magic whistle to terrorize you.)

> * They should be sometimes trapped.

Good idea. The stairs may change to a slide that can't be used upwards.
Another option is a spring gear underneath the stairs, so you always hit
your head on the ceiling; such stairs cannot be used to descend deeper,
apparently. Or simply waxed stairs.

And ladders might be rotten and break if one tries to use them.

> Searching and untrapping works, because
> it takes time, and will probably spring the trap anyway.
>
> * They should be sometimes generated cursed. With cursed stairs several
> things can happen:
> 1. Nothing - player loses turn
> 2. Teleport - stairs just empty player somewhere else on level (one way
> trip, no MR applicable)
> 3. Level Teleport - plus/minus up to three levels.

(Sorry, I haven't found anything to comment that. Let's ignore it.)

> 4. Player arrives confused for a short period, disoriented by the windy
> stairs.

(Oh, the same idea.)

BTW, my posting wasn't meant to be serious, especially after I read the
OP's introductory statements, but there is some potential for new ideas
I've noticed... (whether they fit or not

Janis
 >> Stay informed about: Stairs are too powerful 

Derek Ray wrote:
> On 2008-01-05, Martin Read <mpread DeleteThis @chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>Derek Ray <derek DeleteThis @moot.its.only.a.spamtrap.org> wrote:
>>>On 2008-01-05, AngleWyrm <anglewyrm DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>So here's my suggestions:
>>>
>>>Here's mine. Research first, YANI later.
>>
>>I'm afraid you've been trolled.
>
> Upon review, that appears to be true. IHBT. IHL. IHAND.
>
> (And TL;DR for the OP, or I probably would've noticed

Gee - I need another dictionary to understand that, I fear... 8-}

Janis
 >> Stay informed about: Stairs are too powerful 

"Janis Papanagnou" <Janis_Papanagnou.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:flpjv7$f4o$1@online.de...
> AngleWyrm wrote:

>> And any damage done by falling down stairs can be completely avoided,
>> just by making several trips.

> (What kind of trips have you done?
I stepped in some shrieker the other day...
a - fumbling boots of Hallucination

>> * They should be sometimes trapped.
>
> Good idea. The stairs may change to a slide that can't be used upwards.
> Another option is a spring gear underneath the stairs, so you always hit
> your head on the ceiling; such stairs cannot be used to descend deeper,
> apparently. Or simply waxed stairs.

A yellow scroll (PISO MOJADO) can sometimes be found near waxed stairs. If
read aloud, it might summon a dishwasher.
 >> Stay informed about: Stairs are too powerful 

Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>
> What about elevators?!

(I missed an important variant of this scenario...)

> "Hello Janis, welcome to NetHack! You are a neutral male human Tourist."
> "There's a lift here. Push which button?" - M

"The lift stops at The Shades [the quest goal level]"
"The Master of Thieves enters the lift."
"The Master of Thieves hits! ... [etc.]"

> "You arrive at Moloch's Sanctum."

"A tourist corpse is thrown out of the lift."


Janis
 >> Stay informed about: Stairs are too powerful 

On 2008-01-06, Janis Papanagnou <Janis_Papanagnou DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> Derek Ray wrote:
>> On 2008-01-05, Martin Read <mpread DeleteThis @chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>I'm afraid you've been trolled.
>> Upon review, that appears to be true. IHBT. IHL. IHAND.
>> (And TL;DR for the OP, or I probably would've noticed
>
> Gee - I need another dictionary to understand that, I fear... 8-}

That is just me showing my age.

--
Derek

Game info and change log: http://sporkhack.com
Beta Server: telnet://sporkhack.com
IRC: irc.freenode.net, #sporkhack
 >> Stay informed about: Stairs are too powerful 

On Jan 6, 2:19 am, "AngleWyrm" <anglew....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

(Hm, cursed stairs! Of course the player will have to have a way of
telling they're cursed, but he could go down a hole or trap door if he
wanted to avoid them... the stairs to Genhennom would always be
cursed, as a matter of course, I'd think, and....)

> eh, sorry 'bout that. Mostly poking fun at the idea that making things
> ineffectual/impotent/useless is game design. When really, it's just
> expressing personal ineffectiveness/impotence/uselessness.

Hm? Did you say something?

- John H.
 >> Stay informed about: Stairs are too powerful 

"John H." <JohnWH DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9cf96c56-6e93-48a1-b931-3020ada135e3@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...

> Hm? Did you say something?

#applying motel towel

And speaking of towels, didn't the hitch-hiker's towel have concentrated
vitamin patches? Maybe they could be 'eaten', but use up charges of
nutrition instead of disappearing.
 >> Stay informed about: Stairs are too powerful 

"AngleWyrm" <anglew....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Have you noticed that just walking down stairs moves a player to the next
> level? Also, they're not balanced: A player can escape from any monster just
> by running away. And any damage done by falling down stairs can be
> completely avoided, just by making several trips.

I know this is a joke ...

> So here's my suggestions:
> * Stairs shouldn't work all the time. There should be a 2/3 chance that
> nothing happens, and monsters get a free attack while the player is
> attempting to use them. Maybe they are really long stairs.
>
> * They shouldn't be free. The Stair Troll could charge a fee to use them,
> taking either a percentage of gold (with a minimum of oh 100 zorkmids), or a
> magic item from inventory.
>
> * They should be sometimes trapped. Searching and untrapping works, because
> it takes time, and will probably spring the trap anyway.
>
> * They should be sometimes generated cursed. With cursed stairs several
> things can happen:
> 1. Nothing - player loses turn
> 2. Teleport - stairs just empty player somewhere else on level (one way
> trip, no MR applicable)
> 3. Level Teleport - plus/minus up to three levels.
> 4. Player arrives confused for a short period, disoriented by the windy
> stairs.

.... But it sounds way too much like you just got the real Amulet
for the first time and discovered what happened to the stairs. Even
more funny viewed that way.
 >> Stay informed about: Stairs are too powerful