Sorcerer Revision

drow wrote:

> Alien mind control rays made Tetsubo <tetsubo.RemoveThis@comcast.net> write:
>
>> I'm playing with an idea for a new campaign. Making some modifications
>>to the Sorcerer class:
>
>
> i think its a good idea to give them Intimidate and Use Magic Device
> as class skills.
>

Just give those skills or balance them out by removing others?

--
Tetsubo
--------------------------------------
"The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on
uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral and spiritual health."
-The Uses Of The Past-, Herbert J. Muller

BLUP
 >> Stay informed about: Sorcerer Revision 

Alien mind control rays made Tetsubo <tetsubo DeleteThis @comcast.net> write:
>>> I'm playing with an idea for a new campaign. Making some modifications
>>> to the Sorcerer class:
>>
>> i think its a good idea to give them Intimidate and Use Magic Device
>> as class skills.
>
> Just give those skills or balance them out by removing others?

i just give them to sorcerers. i think they fit the class well,
and 'foo is a class skill' isn't exactly an uber benefit.

--
._n_______n_. drow DeleteThis @bin.sh (CARRIER LOST) <http://www.bin.sh/>
| --------- |== -----------------------------------------------------------
I"/""|"|Z7""' "Well, yes, it did occur to me that I might hit one or
lJ | | two civilians. But I never really thought I would hit
|_l all of them." -- Axly
 >> Stay informed about: Sorcerer Revision 

Tetsubo <tetsubo.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:
> I'm playing with an idea for a new campaign. Making some modifications
> to the Sorcerer class:
>
> D6. I've done this since 3.0 came out.
> Free Eschew Material Components feat. I think it plays well into the
> idea that a Sorcerer *is* magic, rather than one that has studied magic.
> A free Minor Bloodline. Something to give the class a small boost and a
> definite link to whatever is the source of the Sorcerer's power.
>
> How does that sound?

Looks okay to me. I have no problem with d6 HD, and I've been giving
free Eschew Material Components for a *long* time. I give them bonus
metamagic and spell feats at same levels as a wizard gets item creation
(I removed metamagic feats from the wizard bonus list) feats. I would
have no particular problem with replacing these bonus metamagic feats
with a minor bloodline instead.

In fact, with my next iteration (KSRD, when I get there) I plan to drop
the sorcerer base class entirely. The same position would be handled
entirely with bloodlines, and resulting spell-like and/or supernatural
abilities. I expect I'd still have prestige classes around developing
blood abilities. I considered a single generic one, but I didn't see
how it would fit. A human with a demonic bloodline should probably be
quite a bit different from a human with a fey bloodline, and I see
potential for differences within a single bloodline.


At a simple level much of this can be handled by my core racial rules.
A blooded human adds racial abilities associated with his bloodline to
his racial selection. One with a faint bloodline would have only one or
two bloodline-related abilities, one who is more tainted would clearly
have more. And one who is nearly consumed by his bloodline might take
the associated prestige class as well, when he qualifies.

Thus, I could see a 'sorcerer' being 'little more' than a blooded
character. He might or might not be able to cast spells (depends on his
class) but he may well have spell-like or supernatural abilities that
*look* like spells... and they can span the class spell lists.

A fey-blooded warrior (who might have trouble handling iron, btw) might
have abilities based on spells from the druid spell list, probably
illusion and enchantment, and maybe transmutation.

A demon-blooded warrior (who might also have trouble with iron) might
have abilities around destruction and the like.

A devil-blooded warrior (who would be just fine with iron, might have
trouble with silver though) could be about deception, entrapment, and
bindings.


(I'm making up 'details' as I go; I'm pretty tired right now so they
might not be right... I haven't checked my notes on this and a while and
may be misremembering)


Keith
--
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keith.davies.TakeThisOut@gmail.com probably somewhere near you: a product with
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 >> Stay informed about: Sorcerer Revision 

drow wrote:
>>>> I'm playing with an idea for a new campaign. Making some modifications
>>>> to the Sorcerer class:
>>> i think its a good idea to give them Intimidate and Use Magic Device
>>> as class skills.
>> Just give those skills or balance them out by removing others?
>
> i just give them to sorcerers. i think they fit the class well,
> and 'foo is a class skill' isn't exactly an uber benefit.

"Use magic device is a class skill and your primary stat is Cha" is
pretty nice.


--
Jasin
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Tetsubo wrote:
> I'm playing with an idea for a new campaign. Making some
> modifications to the Sorcerer class:
>
> D6. I've done this since 3.0 came out.
> Free Eschew Material Components feat. I think it plays well into the
> idea that a Sorcerer *is* magic, rather than one that has studied magic.
> A free Minor Bloodline. Something to give the class a small boost
> and a definite link to whatever is the source of the Sorcerer's power.
>
> How does that sound?

I give sorcerors in my campaign Heritage and Reserve feats (from the
Complete books) as bonus feats like a wizard. Makes them a little more
versatile, IMHO.

--
Patriarch
^_^ oO(Thinking about something similar for clerics)
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Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic.DeleteThis@inet.hr> wrote:
> drow wrote:
>>>>> I'm playing with an idea for a new campaign. Making some modifications
>>>>> to the Sorcerer class:
>>>> i think its a good idea to give them Intimidate and Use Magic Device
>>>> as class skills.
>>> Just give those skills or balance them out by removing others?
>>
>> i just give them to sorcerers. i think they fit the class well,
>> and 'foo is a class skill' isn't exactly an uber benefit.
>
> "Use magic device is a class skill and your primary stat is Cha" is
> pretty nice.

Just like Warlocks, eh?

I've got no problem with UMD seeing more use. It's the domain skill of
the Magic domain IMC, and making it a class skill for Sorcerers is not
unreasonable.


Keith
--
Keith Davies below you, right now: radioactive magma
keith.davies.DeleteThis@kjdavies.org above you, right now: hard vacuum
keith.davies.DeleteThis@gmail.com probably somewhere near you: a product with
http://www.kjdavies.org/ label warning you it is unsafe if misused
 >> Stay informed about: Sorcerer Revision 

Keith Davies <keith.davies DeleteThis @kjdavies.org> wrote in
news:slrnfsteb4.3r5.keith.davies@kjdavies.org:

> Just like Warlocks, eh?
>
> I've got no problem with UMD seeing more use. It's the domain skill of
> the Magic domain IMC, and making it a class skill for Sorcerers is not
> unreasonable.

I thought they could automatically use magic devices. Am I on the wrong
track?

-phy
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phy <phy00x.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Keith Davies <keith.davies.TakeThisOut@kjdavies.org> wrote in
> news:slrnfsteb4.3r5.keith.davies@kjdavies.org:
>
>> Just like Warlocks, eh?
>>
>> I've got no problem with UMD seeing more use. It's the domain skill of
>> the Magic domain IMC, and making it a class skill for Sorcerers is not
>> unreasonable.
>
> I thought they could automatically use magic devices. Am I on the wrong
> track?

RSRD, only bards and rogues have UMD as a class skill. You can also add
Warlocks. No other base class comes to mind as having UMD as a class
skill.

Except, IMC, clerics with the Magic domain as one of the domains of
their god. And clerics IMC must follow a god (there's another class
that is a 'generic priest', but they don't get domains at all).


Keith
--
Keith Davies below you, right now: radioactive magma
keith.davies.TakeThisOut@kjdavies.org above you, right now: hard vacuum
keith.davies.TakeThisOut@gmail.com probably somewhere near you: a product with
http://www.kjdavies.org/ label warning you it is unsafe if misused
 >> Stay informed about: Sorcerer Revision 

On Mar 5, 7:35 pm, phy <phy....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Keith Davies <keith.dav....RemoveThis@kjdavies.org> wrote innews:slrnfsteb4.3r5.keith.davies@kjdavies.org:
>
> > Just like Warlocks, eh?
>
> > I've got no problem with UMD seeing more use. It's the domain skill of
> > the Magic domain IMC, and making it a class skill for Sorcerers is not
> > unreasonable.
>
> I thought they could automatically use magic devices. Am I on the wrong
> track?

They don't really need it that much, as it really only opens up divine
scrolls/wands. I could see a sorcerer with it, and it doesn't really
give them much more power, as they usually don't have the Int to
bother with it, on top of the requisite concentration and spellcraft.

- Justisaur
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Justisaur wrote:

> On Mar 5, 7:35 pm, phy <phy... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Keith Davies <keith.dav... RemoveThis @kjdavies.org> wrote innews:slrnfsteb4.3r5.keith.davies@kjdavies.org:
>>
>>
>>>Just like Warlocks, eh?
>>
>>>I've got no problem with UMD seeing more use. It's the domain skill of
>>>the Magic domain IMC, and making it a class skill for Sorcerers is not
>>>unreasonable.
>>
>>I thought they could automatically use magic devices. Am I on the wrong
>>track?
>
>
> They don't really need it that much, as it really only opens up divine
> scrolls/wands. I could see a sorcerer with it, and it doesn't really
> give them much more power, as they usually don't have the Int to
> bother with it, on top of the requisite concentration and spellcraft.
>
> - Justisaur

But how many Sorc aren't going to have a 16 Cha at first level? That
right there is a +4 bonus to UMD. If they put four skill points into it,
that makes it a +8 at 1st level. You only need a DC of 20 to use a wand.
Not a bad deal really.

--
Tetsubo
--------------------------------------
"The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on
uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral and spiritual health."
-The Uses Of The Past-, Herbert J. Muller

BLUP
 >> Stay informed about: Sorcerer Revision 

On Mar 6, 1:31 pm, Tetsubo <tets....RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:
> Justisaur wrote:
> > On Mar 5, 7:35 pm, phy <phy....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>Keith Davies <keith.dav....RemoveThis@kjdavies.org> wrote innews:slrnfsteb4.3r5.keith.davies@kjdavies.org:
>
> >>>Just like Warlocks, eh?
>
> >>>I've got no problem with UMD seeing more use. It's the domain skill of
> >>>the Magic domain IMC, and making it a class skill for Sorcerers is not
> >>>unreasonable.
>
> >>I thought they could automatically use magic devices. Am I on the wrong
> >>track?
>
> > They don't really need it that much, as it really only opens up divine
> > scrolls/wands. I could see a sorcerer with it, and it doesn't really
> > give them much more power, as they usually don't have the Int to
> > bother with it, on top of the requisite concentration and spellcraft.
>
> > - Justisaur
>
> But how many Sorc aren't going to have a 16 Cha at first level? That
> right there is a +4 bonus to UMD. If they put four skill points into it,
> that makes it a +8 at 1st level. You only need a DC of 20 to use a wand.
> Not a bad deal really.

Why bother though? You can use wands and scrolls already of wizard/
sorcerer spells, so you aren't hurting for something to do. You
probably aren't going to have access to much in the way of wands at
1st level anyway. The majority of the divine spells aren't very good
for a sorcerer especially as compared to spells he can use already.

I suppose there could be a niche if you didn't have a cleric, druid,
bard, or paladin in the party. You'd be better at it than most
rogues, but I don't see it as a great use of skill points.

- Justisaur
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