Slab Pugs (ugh)

On Jun 6, 4:01 pm, "Shammy" <n....RemoveThis@nothing.com> wrote:
>  sk> I imagine that for most pulls a melee mob is a melee mob and you're
>  sk> not too bothered which one is CCd but I'm sure that there are places
>  sk> where it is better to be able to choose the mob to trap.  At the very
>  sk> least it is better to mark it then nobody throws a dot on it and you
>  sk> can't do that if you can't choose the mob to trap.
>
> With best regards, Shammy.  E-mail: n....RemoveThis@nothing.com
>
> The mob you pull will come first even if he is slightly behind another mob..
> Of course the best mob to trap is a melee mob so try to mark a melee to
> trap. I always pulled with starfire on the mob to trap and he came in trap
> first. Dont choose the last mob in line to trap if you dont have to. This
> way if hunter has to retrap he will put another trap under the mob, if the
> trap is resisted the mob will go for the tank.
> I have tried this many times and it worked in 95% cases and that's more than
> when hunter had to trap and things went wrong.
> I played as feral druid tank but my friend prot warrior also started doing
> it and have no problem.

I'm sceptical, but when I next tank I may try it. If I have a hunter
trapping for me I'm well aware of the limitations and always keep an
extra careful eye on the mob to be trapped. If it gets resisted, I'm
ready to feral charge and bash or taunt. Or even better, I'd have
allowed enough time for the 2nd trap to be ready anyway.
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On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 10:17:23 +0200, Shammy wrote:
>
> U> In fact, I am immensely annoyed with everyone and his dog referring
> U> to hunters as huntards, it must be a bit like warlocks getting upset
> U> about everyone calling them 'locks
>
> What's wrong with lock? Me and many people I know 30-45 year old call them
> locks without problems... hunTARD is another story because the tard part
> seems abbreviation to retard.

I don't know what is wrong with 'lock. Personally I just prefer to spell it
out fully but I don't mind others shortening it. However, I recall posters
in this group complaining about it.

I also agree, that there clearly is a derogatory element to hunTARD and
that's mainly why I resent its use and maybe my comparison to the 'lock vs
warlock issue was a bad one.

> U> Hehe, same here. Or if while chain trapping the mob gets out while me
> U> cooldown is still 3 or 4 seconds out, I often just kite the mob along
> U> because I can usually live trough a couple of hits. Nothing more
> U> annoying than a tank taunting the mob off me in such a situation.
>
> I dont know how many heroics did you do but you usually cant get 2-3 hits,
> mostly it's 2 hits dead and from many mobs in the tricky pulls 1 shot dead
> and I'm talking about a full kara/gruul/badge epic BM hunter.

Ok, maybe I should have clarified that I am talking about non-heroic
instances. In normal instances and even in Kara (mainly during Moroes) I am
on trap duty and there I can easily take a few hits, especially as I will
usually let the healer know that I am about to take a few.

Also, to defuse the cooldown situation I tend to lay my third trap as far
away from the second one as possible, so once the mobs breaks out of the
second trap, the time it takes it to run to me shortens the remaining
cooldown by another few seconds.

I agree however, from my - admittedly limited - heroic experience that this
would most likely not be a valid strategy.

> After many many heroic runs as tank with a BM hunter in party I have
> found by far the best way to use traps is to trap mobs myself. The hunter
> places the trap under me and I pull with starfire the mob to trap. This
> gives me enough aggro that the mob will come for me after the trap breaks

I have never heard of this strategy but then I haven't run many heroic
instances. And it sounds very plausible, even thought it will not allow the
hunter to chain trap.

> but the trap is highest on kill list for me always, before sap.

Yes, this is true for both normal and heroic instances.

> Hunters pulling on trap and getting a resist are much more of a problem than
> me tanking 1 mob extra

True.

> and while the hunter is kiting that mob around he isnt dpsing and hunters
> dps too well to let them toy around with a mob.

I agree totally. That's why I was suggesting that if my cooldown is almost
ready (3-5 seconds) and I'm likely to survive I will let the mob hit me a
couple of times while still dealing damage and then lay down my new trap.

> U> If a trap is resisted or if my cooldown is too long I will yell for
> U> help.

If the mob breaks out too soon or resists a trap totally I will call out to
the tank and run towards him.

> Or get 1 shot, then the healer get 1 shot etc etc, I've seen it happen more
> than once.

Not in normal instances and Kara, I'll defer to your experience for heroic
instances as I haven't run enough of them.

Cheers
Urbin

--
Dun Morogh-EU (PvE)
Urbin (70), Dwarven Hunter | Surana (24), Draenei Mage
Mymule (70), Gnomish Warlock | Juran (33), Nightelven Druid
Sunh (70), Nightelven Priest | Gera (26), Human Paladin
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On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 07:22:45 -0700 (PDT), Osoris wrote:
> > > 7. I am not specced for casting interrupts. Flagging the caster that
> > > will do everything BUT run towards me without me running backwards
> > > 40-50yds myself is not a good idea.
>
> > Shouldn't be a problem for an experienced hunter, use LoS (Line of
> > Sight) to your advantage.
>
> >Line of sight pulls are not always possible so the experienced hunter
> >is as stuck as the other hunters when that happens. Also, the
> >hunter's trap is the most difficult CC to use against ranged attackers
> >so if you have any other option at all then you should use that on the
> >casters first.
>
> I have never been to an instance where I absolutely couldn't LoS a
> target, furthermore the OP was stating he has to run back 40-50 yards for
> caster, I was just trying to give some advice on other ways to pull them.

It is true, that in most instances you can probably manage a LoS pull.

However, there are a few drawbacks to it:
- it makes the pull and trapping more complex and increases that chance of
the wrong mob ending up in the trap
- it makes chain trapping harder (as a second LoS situation would need to be
found or a trap very near the first one)

In most situations requiring CC there is at least one melee mob, so in those
cases I see no reason why this mob should not be assigned to the hunter
instead of a caster.

Of course, there are pulls with caster mobs only and in this case a good
hunter will still be able to trap the mob using LoS, but unless it's really
needed, this is just a complication that can easily be avoided.

Cheers
Urbin

--
Dun Morogh-EU (PvE)
Urbin (70), Dwarven Hunter | Surana (24), Draenei Mage
Mymule (70), Gnomish Warlock | Juran (33), Nightelven Druid
Sunh (70), Nightelven Priest | Gera (26), Human Paladin
 >> Stay informed about: Slab Pugs (ugh) 

U> It is true, that in most instances you can probably manage a LoS
U> pull.

I cant think of 1 where you cant

U> However, there are a few drawbacks to it:
U> - it makes the pull and trapping more complex and increases that
U> chance of the wrong mob ending up in the trap - it makes chain
U> trapping harder (as a second LoS situation would need to be found
U> or a trap very near the first one)

Best idea let the tank trap, it works wonders put the trap at his feet and
let him pull the mob to trap so anything that happens after it's ok. Trap
resist? Np they go for the tank. Trap broken early? Np they go for the tank.
Trap finished during fight? Np they go for the tank and the hunter can
continue DPS and the mobs dies faster

U> In most situations requiring CC there is at least one melee mob, so
U> in those cases I see no reason why this mob should not be assigned to
U> the hunter instead of a caster.

Because it's caster mobs that are the problem, 1 more or less melee mob
htting my druid is nothing compared to a caster burning through my 30k
armor.

U> Of course, there are pulls with caster mobs only and in this case a
U> good hunter will still be able to trap the mob using LoS, but unless
U> it's really needed, this is just a complication that can easily be
U> avoided.

Unless the hunter is only CC and a bad tank avoid it.
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On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 15:14:51 +0200, Shammy wrote:
>
> U> It is true, that in most instances you can probably manage a LoS
> U> pull.
>
> I cant think of 1 where you cant
>
> U> However, there are a few drawbacks to it:
> U> - it makes the pull and trapping more complex and increases that
> U> chance of the wrong mob ending up in the trap - it makes chain
> U> trapping harder (as a second LoS situation would need to be found
> U> or a trap very near the first one)
>
> Best idea let the tank trap, it works wonders put the trap at his feet and
> let him pull the mob to trap so anything that happens after it's ok. Trap
> resist? Np they go for the tank. Trap broken early? Np they go for the tank.
> Trap finished during fight? Np they go for the tank and the hunter can
> continue DPS and the mobs dies faster

If you don't want/need chain trapping, why even bother to trap the mob in
the first place?

And just to clarify: For me, if I don't say anything, it's always
non-heroic, despite me being 70 for over a year

> U> In most situations requiring CC there is at least one melee mob, so
> U> in those cases I see no reason why this mob should not be assigned to
> U> the hunter instead of a caster.
>
> Because it's caster mobs that are the problem, 1 more or less melee mob
> htting my druid is nothing compared to a caster burning through my 30k
> armor.

True. What I meant was: If you have a mage and a hunter, the good solution
would be for the caster to be sheeped and the melee mob to be trapped. I see
no benefit to do it the other way round and make the trap-pull more
difficult.

A sheeped caster will not burn through your armor

> U> Of course, there are pulls with caster mobs only and in this case a
> U> good hunter will still be able to trap the mob using LoS, but unless
> U> it's really needed, this is just a complication that can easily be
> U> avoided.
>
> Unless the hunter is only CC and a bad tank avoid it.

I'm not sure I understand what you want to say here...

Cheers
Urbin

--
Dun Morogh-EU (PvE)
Urbin (70), Dwarven Hunter | Surana (24), Draenei Mage
Mymule (70), Gnomish Warlock | Juran (33), Nightelven Druid
Sunh (70), Nightelven Priest | Gera (26), Human Paladin
 >> Stay informed about: Slab Pugs (ugh) 

sk> I imagine that for most pulls a melee mob is a melee mob and you're
sk> not too bothered which one is CCd but I'm sure that there are places
sk> where it is better to be able to choose the mob to trap. At the very
sk> least it is better to mark it then nobody throws a dot on it and you
sk> can't do that if you can't choose the mob to trap.


With best regards, Shammy. E-mail: none.TakeThisOut@nothing.com


The mob you pull will come first even if he is slightly behind another mob.
Of course the best mob to trap is a melee mob so try to mark a melee to
trap. I always pulled with starfire on the mob to trap and he came in trap
first. Dont choose the last mob in line to trap if you dont have to. This
way if hunter has to retrap he will put another trap under the mob, if the
trap is resisted the mob will go for the tank.
I have tried this many times and it worked in 95% cases and that's more than
when hunter had to trap and things went wrong.
I played as feral druid tank but my friend prot warrior also started doing
it and have no problem.
 >> Stay informed about: Slab Pugs (ugh) 

"lcpltom" <lcpltom.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:99af9494-65a2-4741-b60a-71344bc9d45b@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...

> The entry way into ramparts up to the first boss is pretty well open
> with little chances for LoS pulling. What few obstacles are there for

Hug the right wall, only need to pull 20 yards or so.

> LoS tend to be too far away from the mobs to use. In mech there are a
> few mob groups with no chance to LoS pull. Shadow Labs has that huge

Sepethrea's room? they don't require a LOS pull, they come anyway... in
other places - gatewatchers for example - LOS isn't nessecary, but can be
done easily by moving behind the entry arch.

> open room in the beginning of the instance with almost no obstacles to
> use, at least for the initial few pulls. I'm sure there is more, but
> I really don't want to think about them right now.

There's an alcove on the left in the first room... moving there, behind the
brazier, will break LOS to the imps and everything will come, allowing for
safe AOE without the chance of agging the other mobs.

There really isn't a single example of where a LOS pull is required but not
possible, at least not in any of the 5man OL instances.

Biggest problem for a tank isn't the pull, it's trying to stop the dps from
nuking before the mob has got to where the tank wants it.


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