Sci-fi and fantasy combined

External Since: Apr 07, 2005 Posts: 14

<<#>>
>>I’m unfamiliar on how the game’s changed, but last time I looked it was built in that tech was a limiting
>>factor on magic.
>>If I recall the right game rules, I was surprised by my GM once when I was informed that a spell was harder
>>(to cast, and design) because the tech level was lower than my own.
>
>First time I hear such thing.
>Maybe the GM ruled that "rare components" were more difficult to find,
>but I wouldn't accept a direct relation TL <-> Magic.

Nope. I couldn't believe it, i called it total nonsense at the time.
I thought it was Gurps rules, but i could be confusing it with another.
Failing the Magic skill roll would or could result in a demon popping up.
An area had its basic Manna level, and this had an effect on how hard or even possible magic was.
I don't think that spell casting exhausted the mage, but I am doubtful, it might have.

>In fact, many fantasy settings assume that Tech replaced (or "killed")
>magic. I.E.: the more Tech you got, the less Magic you'll get.

Quite, it never made sense to me why this established itself, it appears to me that the average person looks
at tech and simply thinks of it as Magical, Science not wanted.
So the tech vs magic paradigm would not be a natural jump to my way of thinking.

<<#>>
>>Isn’t No#3 the gurps default, sorta. Magic doesn’t like tech, and tech’s ambivalent about Magic?
>
>I don't think it is.
>GURPS has no (or no longer) "Default" relations: it's built
>SPECIFICALLY (IMHO) to allow easy mixes and matches among Magic, Tech,
>Psi, Superpowers, Whateveryouwant.

Spells that targeted Technology were harder to learn, and could be penalized on casting if the targets tech
level was not your own. I recall asking if I could design a harder learn spell that was more flexible and
could handle the ‘higher more complex machines’ with no such casting penalty.
This was when I was told that each tech level Lower or Higher was - a) a casting penalty, and b) would require
a separate spell for every single tech level.
I think I blew up at that point !

>>I think I’m trying to say that gurps is prolly not the system to choose for the OPs’ plans, without actually saying it. Smile

>
>Once he has the setting clear in his mind, GURPS works just fine.

Perhaps the Gm of the time was simply wrong, I maintained the interpretation was ‘nuts’. He said that the game
should be played by the rules, you cannot just decide that you want a rook to move like a knight.

I reckon that was the last game with that system.
Maybe i should take a look a the current Gurps and see how it's evolved.

Mike

External Since: Jul 18, 2005 Posts: 287

mike wrote:
> <<#>>
>>> I’m unfamiliar on how the game’s changed, but last time I looked it was built in that tech was a limiting
>>> factor on magic.
>>> If I recall the right game rules, I was surprised by my GM once when I was informed that a spell was harder
>>> (to cast, and design) because the tech level was lower than my own.
>> First time I hear such thing.
>> Maybe the GM ruled that "rare components" were more difficult to find,
>> but I wouldn't accept a direct relation TL <-> Magic.
>
> Nope. I couldn't believe it, i called it total nonsense at the time.
> I thought it was Gurps rules, but i could be confusing it with another.
> Failing the Magic skill roll would or could result in a demon popping up.
> An area had its basic Manna level, and this had an effect on how hard or even possible magic was.
> I don't think that spell casting exhausted the mage, but I am doubtful, it might have.
>
>> In fact, many fantasy settings assume that Tech replaced (or "killed")
>> magic. I.E.: the more Tech you got, the less Magic you'll get.
>
> Quite, it never made sense to me why this established itself, it appears to me that the average person looks
> at tech and simply thinks of it as Magical, Science not wanted.
> So the tech vs magic paradigm would not be a natural jump to my way of thinking.
>
> <<#>>
>>> Isn’t No#3 the gurps default, sorta. Magic doesn’t like tech, and tech’s ambivalent about Magic?
>> I don't think it is.
>> GURPS has no (or no longer) "Default" relations: it's built
>> SPECIFICALLY (IMHO) to allow easy mixes and matches among Magic, Tech,
>> Psi, Superpowers, Whateveryouwant.
>
> Spells that targeted Technology were harder to learn, and could be penalized on casting if the targets tech
> level was not your own. I recall asking if I could design a harder learn spell that was more flexible and
> could handle the ‘higher more complex machines’ with no such casting penalty.
> This was when I was told that each tech level Lower or Higher was - a) a casting penalty, and b) would require
> a separate spell for every single tech level.
> I think I blew up at that point !
>

I can see part of his thinking. If one is used to repairing a modern
TL8 PC than goes to try and work on a TL6 computer, say Eniac, he is
going to have a lot of problems. The same with working on a modern
car's fuel system where you ask the computer what is wrong and an
original Model T.
If one had training in different tech levels, like a lot of modern
repair persons who have worked in the field for the last forty years,
the penalty should go away.

>>> I think I’m trying to say that gurps is prolly not the system to choose for the OPs’ plans, without actually saying it. Smile

>> Once he has the setting clear in his mind, GURPS works just fine.
>
> Perhaps the Gm of the time was simply wrong, I maintained the interpretation was ‘nuts’. He said that the game
> should be played by the rules, you cannot just decide that you want a rook to move like a knight.
>
> I reckon that was the last game with that system.
> Maybe i should take a look a the current Gurps and see how it's evolved.
>
> Mike