Sammy, I am beginning to come around to your way of thinking

"Canuck" <someone.DeleteThis@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:N7Z6i.234997$6m4.183786@pd7urf1no...
> Vista - Nightmare. Unstable. you gotta plead with the damned thing just to
> get it to do just about anything. Delete or move a file takes about 6
> clicks. Yes I am the bloody Administrator of this god awful PC Damn you,
> how many times you gotta be told. Try installing a simple prog from 2
> years ago - forget it file CMDLOG_somethingorother.ocx is not compatiblle
> with this OS! It's slow, cumbersome and a real pain in the butt.
> On the positive side it does look quite pretty and the littles satisfied
> sounds it makes on start up and completion of a download are soothing. Oh
> yes and it also comes with some new Mahjong games which pleased my
> daughter.
>
> DAMN DAMN DAMN.
>
> FSX - Unstable - at least I can remove that from the PC.
>
> I am starting to feel like Peter Finch in that 70's movie, what was it?
> "Network" or some such "I'm damned mad and I'm not going to take it
> anymore"
>
> I think I'll go lie down for a bit now.
>
>

Still no luck getting FSX to run?

Btw, are you running Vista with UAC off? I do not have Vista as of yet, but
from what I have been reading I understand UAC is a major annoyance, and
many start off by turning that off...



--
Don
 >> Stay informed about: Sammy, I am beginning to come around to your way of thinking 

On May 30, 8:57 am, "TOCA" <N....TakeThisOut@valid.com> wrote:
> So what's the news? Exactly same storry as XP, when it hit the puters
> worldwide /

I keep trying to tell people that this is new. It's never been this
bad. What's not new is that you need the latest and greatest hardware.
The way the market works there'll always be some cost to upgrading OS.
It's a little higher cost than it was previously but that's not what's
new. Here's what's new....not based on personal experience but on what
I've read:

1) Drastic DRM out of the box. Stuff like refusing to play unprotected
streams or downgrading unprotected video or audio.

2) Unsigned drivers will not work. If someone decides to create a
freeware driver as a hobby project for that piece of hardware sitting
on your shelf it becomes very hard if not impossible to do so. Drivers
cost more, require more development etc.

Side note: I bet you didn't know that MS (on their own or on behalf of
the hardware manufacturer) can now REVOKE your device driver. Check
out "Denial-of-Service via Driver/Device Revocation" in the article
below. It ain't paranoid fantasy folks - it's a feature built into the
OS!!!

3) Speaking of hardware most major hardware was supported either at
release or very soon after. I understand drivers for audio and video
have been slow to appear for VISTA. Reason: A combination of point 2
and the fact that the driver models have changed so drastically with
old drivers totally unsupported.

4) A security system that as others have mentioned nags you into
insensitivity, and that many expert users choose to turn off. (What's
the bet someone tells you its your fault for turning UAC off the
moment you have a virus)

I'm not talking out of my backside here. I work as a software
developer and have done so since late 1993 (with some time off to do a
B.Sc). In the past I'd run multiple operating systems (multiple
partitions, and experimented with trial versions of VMWare). I'm no
lightweight user, and I don't throw things away if they don't work
without looking for a solution. I've always enjoyed upgrading for
major releases. This time around I have a perfectly legitimate upgrade
copy of Vista that I paid for sitting in a draw because it requires me
to give up my XP to install. It's not because I want to be paranoid or
get attention or anything else I've been accused of, it's because
there are new and worrying trends here. For me a computer is an
enabler not a set of hoops I like to jump through. If the PC makes it
painful or impossible to accomplish simple things I may wish to do
infrequently (like put together a video for flight sim for example)
it's useless to me. I absolutely will not pay for hardware and
software only to have it "revoked".

If you don't believe me, please read this article then go verify the
truth or otherwise of the claims made for yourself.
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
 >> Stay informed about: Sammy, I am beginning to come around to your way of thinking 

On May 30, 9:33 am, "Don Burnette" <d.burne....DeleteThis@clothes.comcast.net>
wrote:
> Only in 64 bit Vista, not 32 bit, from what I understand.

Yes, and MS is saying the next version of Windows will be exclusively
64-bit.

http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=40364
 >> Stay informed about: Sammy, I am beginning to come around to your way of thinking 

"Canuck" <someone.RemoveThis@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:N7Z6i.234997$6m4.183786@pd7urf1no...
> Vista - Nightmare. Unstable. you gotta plead with the damned thing just to
> get it to do just about anything. Delete or move a file takes about 6
> clicks. Yes I am the bloody Administrator of this god awful PC Damn you,
> how many times you gotta be told. Try installing a simple prog from 2
> years ago - forget it file CMDLOG_somethingorother.ocx is not compatiblle
> with this OS! It's slow, cumbersome and a real pain in the butt.
> On the positive side it does look quite pretty and the littles satisfied
> sounds it makes on start up and completion of a download are soothing. Oh
> yes and it also comes with some new Mahjong games which pleased my
> daughter.
>
> DAMN DAMN DAMN.
>
> FSX - Unstable - at least I can remove that from the PC.
>
> I am starting to feel like Peter Finch in that 70's movie, what was it?
> "Network" or some such "I'm damned mad and I'm not going to take it
> anymore"
>
> I think I'll go lie down for a bit now.
>

I can guess how you feel; I spent a few hours setting up my boss's new pc
which came with Vista installed.
The first thing he asked me to do was to remove all the prompts which are
displayed by default for the most simple of tasks.
This link will tell you how to do that:
http://tinyurl.com/2lwm5a

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: Sammy, I am beginning to come around to your way of thinking 

Great link thanks v much

"Chris Curtis" <chris.RemoveThis@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:vvCdncJuBvJp_cHbnZ2dnUVZ8qCqnZ2d@pipex.net...
>
> "Canuck" <someone.RemoveThis@somewhere.com> wrote in message
> news:N7Z6i.234997$6m4.183786@pd7urf1no...
>> Vista - Nightmare. Unstable. you gotta plead with the damned thing just
>> to get it to do just about anything. Delete or move a file takes about 6
>> clicks. Yes I am the bloody Administrator of this god awful PC Damn you,
>> how many times you gotta be told. Try installing a simple prog from 2
>> years ago - forget it file CMDLOG_somethingorother.ocx is not compatiblle
>> with this OS! It's slow, cumbersome and a real pain in the butt.
>> On the positive side it does look quite pretty and the littles satisfied
>> sounds it makes on start up and completion of a download are soothing.
>> Oh yes and it also comes with some new Mahjong games which pleased my
>> daughter.
>>
>> DAMN DAMN DAMN.
>>
>> FSX - Unstable - at least I can remove that from the PC.
>>
>> I am starting to feel like Peter Finch in that 70's movie, what was it?
>> "Network" or some such "I'm damned mad and I'm not going to take it
>> anymore"
>>
>> I think I'll go lie down for a bit now.
>>
>
> I can guess how you feel; I spent a few hours setting up my boss's new
> pc which came with Vista installed.
> The first thing he asked me to do was to remove all the prompts which are
> displayed by default for the most simple of tasks.
> This link will tell you how to do that:
> http://tinyurl.com/2lwm5a
>
> Chris
>
 >> Stay informed about: Sammy, I am beginning to come around to your way of thinking 

On May 30, 11:26 am, "Don Burnette" <d.burne....RemoveThis@clothes.comcast.net>
wrote:
> Hopefully, by the time the next OS comes out, and things due progress
> completely to 64 bit, some of these type of issues will be ironed out. I am
> amazed at the amount of hardware mfgs, that still do not write 64 bit
> drivers...

Don't be surprised and don't hold your breath for the problems being
ironed out. A system where you have to obtain a cert from MS to do so
isn't exactly going to promote faster driver development.
 >> Stay informed about: Sammy, I am beginning to come around to your way of thinking 

"Tilly" <nospamplease.RemoveThis@lancashirechess.org.uk> skrev i en meddelelse
news:1180460686.25614.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
> SNIP<
>
> Here's waiting for Vista SP2 - it might have become a decent product by
> then.
>
> PS - It's a bloody memory hog! Laptop came with 1gb, and there is only
> 200mb left when Vista has loaded - ye gods, keep away from it......

So what's the news? Exactly same storry as XP, when it hit the puters
worldwide /

Hogs memory, wont coorporate with other programes, wont run programes older
than last week, no drivers for hardware older than last month, etc.

I had to surrender to XP a few months ago, because my hardware was no longer
supported by 9.X/ME (Too advanced for the trusty old OS), but I still have
ME as secondarry OS, for those old favorit prog....erh...games, eaven if it
make my CPU run a litle hot ;o)

Tommy C
 >> Stay informed about: Sammy, I am beginning to come around to your way of thinking 

"Sammy" <syousef DeleteThis @bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:1180481414.851336.104480@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> On May 30, 8:57 am, "TOCA" <N... DeleteThis @valid.com> wrote:
>> So what's the news? Exactly same storry as XP, when it hit the puters
>> worldwide /
>
> I keep trying to tell people that this is new. It's never been this
> bad. What's not new is that you need the latest and greatest hardware.
> The way the market works there'll always be some cost to upgrading OS.
> It's a little higher cost than it was previously but that's not what's
> new. Here's what's new....not based on personal experience but on what
> I've read:
>
> 1) Drastic DRM out of the box. Stuff like refusing to play unprotected
> streams or downgrading unprotected video or audio.
>
> 2) Unsigned drivers will not work. If someone decides to create a
> freeware driver as a hobby project for that piece of hardware sitting
> on your shelf it becomes very hard if not impossible to do so. Drivers
> cost more, require more development etc.
>


Only in 64 bit Vista, not 32 bit, from what I understand.


--
Don
 >> Stay informed about: Sammy, I am beginning to come around to your way of thinking 

"Sammy" <syousef DeleteThis @bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:1180482645.436422.127240@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> On May 30, 9:33 am, "Don Burnette" <d.burne... DeleteThis @clothes.comcast.net>
> wrote:
>> Only in 64 bit Vista, not 32 bit, from what I understand.
>
> Yes, and MS is saying the next version of Windows will be exclusively
> 64-bit.
>
> http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=40364
>

I am suprised the move to 64 bit OS is taking as long as it has, 64 bit
hardware has been out for some time.

Hopefully, by the time the next OS comes out, and things due progress
completely to 64 bit, some of these type of issues will be ironed out. I am
amazed at the amount of hardware mfgs, that still do not write 64 bit
drivers...




--
Don
 >> Stay informed about: Sammy, I am beginning to come around to your way of thinking 

I haven't coded any programs since Windows 95.

I don't like the API. Would rather communicate directly with the hardware.

Vista is the latest OS from Micro$oft that tightens the noose around their
customers necks
choking the ambition and life right out of them.

"The dumbing-down of programming "
http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/05/13feature.html

"How much dumber do you want to be today?" - Microsoft

"Canuck" <someone.TakeThisOut@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:N7Z6i.234997$6m4.183786@pd7urf1no...
> Vista - Nightmare. Unstable. you gotta plead with the damned thing just to
> get it to do just about anything. Delete or move a file takes about 6
> clicks. Yes I am the bloody Administrator of this god awful PC Damn you,
> how many times you gotta be told. Try installing a simple prog from 2
> years ago - forget it file CMDLOG_somethingorother.ocx is not compatiblle
> with this OS! It's slow, cumbersome and a real pain in the butt.
> On the positive side it does look quite pretty and the littles satisfied
> sounds it makes on start up and completion of a download are soothing. Oh
> yes and it also comes with some new Mahjong games which pleased my
> daughter.
>
> DAMN DAMN DAMN.
>
> FSX - Unstable - at least I can remove that from the PC.
>
> I am starting to feel like Peter Finch in that 70's movie, what was it?
> "Network" or some such "I'm damned mad and I'm not going to take it
> anymore"
>
> I think I'll go lie down for a bit now.
>
>



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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 >> Stay informed about: Sammy, I am beginning to come around to your way of thinking 

On May 30, 2:54 pm, Mxsmanic <mxsma....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> There is very little use for 64-bit. The vast majority of applications run
> fine in 32 bits.

At 32 bits you hit a 4 Gig memory addressing limit. This is a per
process limit, but there's also complication addressing commonly
shared memory etc. Given that the standard seems to have moved up to
2Gb memory in total, and given that the apps are memory hungry these
days I'd argue there's execllent use for 64 bit addressing in the very
near future. Advanced IT users and scientists have already had a use
for this for quite some time.

HOWEVER breaking back compatibility, no longer supporting 16 bit apps
at all just means you've put a whole bunch of apps in the bin for no
good reason. 32 bit and 16 bit is more important than 64 bit until the
majority of apps have gone 64-bit. There will come a time when 32 bit
apps are looked upon the same way we look at 8 bit apps now...but
that's some years off.

Also once we hit 64-bit it will take a long long time before we wish
to move up to 128-bit. (I doubt any of us will need it in our lifetime
unless things change big time). Why? Because the amount of memory you
can address in a process is 2^(number of bits) you have.

So 8 bit addresses 2^8 = 256 memory locations
So 16 bit addresses 2^16 = 65536 memory locations
So 32 bit addresses 2^32 = 4294967296 memory locations
So 64 bit addresses 2^64 = 18446744073709551616 memory locations

Each time you move up you're not doubling the memory, but squaring it.
The move from 16 to 32 bits increased memory by 65536 times. The move
from 32 to 64 gives you 4294967296 as much memory. It'll take a while
to catch up with that unless there's some major breakthrough (which
not impossible). Also keep in mind we've been pushing hard to move
memory densities up for many years, but there are physical limits you
eventually hit trying to squeeze bits on a chip.

In other words if I live to be a hundred I doubt I'll need to move up
again...but I could be wrong.
 >> Stay informed about: Sammy, I am beginning to come around to your way of thinking 

Don Burnette writes:

> I am suprised the move to 64 bit OS is taking as long as it has, 64 bit
> hardware has been out for some time.

There is very little use for 64-bit. The vast majority of applications run
fine in 32 bits.
 >> Stay informed about: Sammy, I am beginning to come around to your way of thinking 

On 29 May 2007 16:30:14 -0700, Sammy <syousef.TakeThisOut@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

>On May 30, 8:57 am, "TOCA" <N....TakeThisOut@valid.com> wrote:
>> So what's the news? Exactly same storry as XP, when it hit the puters
>> worldwide /
>
>I keep trying to tell people that this is new. It's never been this
>bad. What's not new is that you need the latest and greatest hardware.
>The way the market works there'll always be some cost to upgrading OS.
>It's a little higher cost than it was previously but that's not what's
>new. Here's what's new....not based on personal experience but on what
>I've read:
>
>1) Drastic DRM out of the box. Stuff like refusing to play unprotected
>streams or downgrading unprotected video or audio.
>
>2) Unsigned drivers will not work. If someone decides to create a
>freeware driver as a hobby project for that piece of hardware sitting
>on your shelf it becomes very hard if not impossible to do so. Drivers
>cost more, require more development etc.
>
>Side note: I bet you didn't know that MS (on their own or on behalf of
>the hardware manufacturer) can now REVOKE your device driver. Check
>out "Denial-of-Service via Driver/Device Revocation" in the article
>below. It ain't paranoid fantasy folks - it's a feature built into the
>OS!!!

Maybe it's a good idea for us Win 2k Pro users.. to pick up a
copy of Win XP Pro OS full install while they're still around?
Seriously thinking of it!!

-G

>3) Speaking of hardware most major hardware was supported either at
>release or very soon after. I understand drivers for audio and video
>have been slow to appear for VISTA. Reason: A combination of point 2
>and the fact that the driver models have changed so drastically with
>old drivers totally unsupported.
>
>4) A security system that as others have mentioned nags you into
>insensitivity, and that many expert users choose to turn off. (What's
>the bet someone tells you its your fault for turning UAC off the
>moment you have a virus)
>
>I'm not talking out of my backside here. I work as a software
>developer and have done so since late 1993 (with some time off to do a
>B.Sc). In the past I'd run multiple operating systems (multiple
>partitions, and experimented with trial versions of VMWare). I'm no
>lightweight user, and I don't throw things away if they don't work
>without looking for a solution. I've always enjoyed upgrading for
>major releases. This time around I have a perfectly legitimate upgrade
>copy of Vista that I paid for sitting in a draw because it requires me
>to give up my XP to install. It's not because I want to be paranoid or
>get attention or anything else I've been accused of, it's because
>there are new and worrying trends here. For me a computer is an
>enabler not a set of hoops I like to jump through. If the PC makes it
>painful or impossible to accomplish simple things I may wish to do
>infrequently (like put together a video for flight sim for example)
>it's useless to me. I absolutely will not pay for hardware and
>software only to have it "revoked".
>
>If you don't believe me, please read this article then go verify the
>truth or otherwise of the claims made for yourself.
>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
 >> Stay informed about: Sammy, I am beginning to come around to your way of thinking