Roguelike Rules

Raymond Martineau wrote:
>
> For reference, all major roguelikes have a customized system, even if it
> is based loosly on D&D. Rigedly sticking with a ruleset might not be
> optim - the exact reason why roguelikes have their own system.

Yes I am aware of this and I did say I wanted to base it on something
not copy it. I need to start somewhere.

Thanks
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Corremn wrote:
> Raymond Martineau wrote:
> >
> > For reference, all major roguelikes have a customized system, even if it
> > is based loosly on D&D. Rigedly sticking with a ruleset might not be
> > optim - the exact reason why roguelikes have their own system.
>
> Yes I am aware of this and I did say I wanted to base it on something
> not copy it. I need to start somewhere.

Then try the system from the Steve Livingstone 'Swords & Sorcery'
gamebooks - remember Skill, Stamina and Luck?

A.
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Antoine wrote:
> Corremn wrote:
> > Raymond Martineau wrote:
> > >
> > > For reference, all major roguelikes have a customized system, even if it
> > > is based loosly on D&D. Rigedly sticking with a ruleset might not be
> > > optim - the exact reason why roguelikes have their own system.
> >
> > Yes I am aware of this and I did say I wanted to base it on something
> > not copy it. I need to start somewhere.
>
> Then try the system from the Steve Livingstone 'Swords & Sorcery'
> gamebooks - remember Skill, Stamina and Luck?

Obviously I have already been using this for my Warlock of Firetop
Mountain game, but this does not cover magic\ranged weapons or leveling
up, skills etc. I wanted something more powerful\flexible, although
for a simple hack'n'slash game Livingstone's worked very well.
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"Corremn" (corremn@dodo.com.au) writes:
> I am in need of some rules to base my rogue-like around. I.e D&D 3rd
> edition. I do not have access to any (with the exception of the Middle
> Earth pen and paper rpg and other lame ones I have found on the web).
> I tried developing my own but that will lead to spending months(years)
> balancing out the game mechanics.

D&D 3rd edition is posted for free on the web as D20. The only thing
missing is character birth and the experience and leveling system.

One other thing - a roguelike has been attempted under the AD&D ruleset.
This roguelike, "Dungeon Hack", is probably a failed experiment: For
example, Clerics have much better standing power than Fighters in
regards to melee combat (due to healing spells.) While this may be
intetional, it doesn'treally look balanced.

> What do people recommend and are there any good free rules sets on the
> web?

Roll your own. It works well for a 7DRL, where you have a quick combat
system and minimal balancing that can be adjusted based on personal
preference and feedback.

For reference, all major roguelikes have a customized system, even if it
is based loosly on D&D. Rigedly sticking with a ruleset might not be
optim - the exact reason why roguelikes have their own system.
 >> Stay informed about: Roguelike Rules 

Corremn wrote:
> Antoine wrote:

> > Then try the system from the Steve Livingstone 'Swords & Sorcery'
> > gamebooks - remember Skill, Stamina and Luck?
>
> Obviously I have already been using this for my Warlock of Firetop
> Mountain game, but this does not cover magic\ranged weapons or leveling
> up, skills etc. I wanted something more powerful\flexible, although
> for a simple hack'n'slash game Livingstone's worked very well.

Oops thought I'd check up on that, I was using Fighting Fantasy rules
not Swords & Sorcery, although they are very similar. So I guess it
does cover skills and magic.
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Sherm Pendley wrote:
> bk039.DeleteThis@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Raymond Martineau) writes:
>
> > D&D 3rd edition is posted for free on the web as D20. The only thing
> > missing is character birth and the experience and leveling system.
>
> The d20 license specifically forbids both using the rules in a CRPG and
> publishing a character creation and/or experience & leveling system for
> it. So if you use d20 for a RL you're doubly screwed.

Man...
That bites.

>
> You can, however, use the SRD, which has no such restrictions.

Yes. I hope the anime rules on OPEN GAMING FOUNDATION are SRD,
otherwise that bite even more. Once ( if ) Hellband gets finished, an
anime game with those rules was my next target.

T.
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konijn_ schrieb:
> Sherm Pendley wrote:
>> bk039 DeleteThis @FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Raymond Martineau) writes:
>>
>>> D&D 3rd edition is posted for free on the web as D20. The only thing
>>> missing is character birth and the experience and leveling system.
>> The d20 license specifically forbids both using the rules in a CRPG and
>> publishing a character creation and/or experience & leveling system for
>> it. So if you use d20 for a RL you're doubly screwed.
>
> Man...
> That bites.
>
>> You can, however, use the SRD, which has no such restrictions.
>
> Yes. I hope the anime rules on OPEN GAMING FOUNDATION are SRD,
> otherwise that bite even more. Once ( if ) Hellband gets finished, an
> anime game with those rules was my next target.

Do not forget that IP claims in the case of game rules are rather
questionable. AFAIK they have no real legal foundation. They can own the
text through copyright and certain terms through trademark law but the
actual mechanics? With patents maybe but IIRC D20 is not patented. It
would be real hard to get a valid patent on any RPG rule set anyway. Do
they want to claim they invented "the idea of having a character stat
that represents the character's physical strenght"? Do they want to
claim they invented "rolling dice to determine the outcome of events
using tables"? .
I use a mix of WFRP and Inquisitor rules + my own stuff in my game and I
am not worried about the legal situation at all. If RPG mechanics had a
patent-like protection those games themselves would be illegal because
they used so much "prior art".

BTW, the only case of a C&D letter send to a roguelike developer I can
remember is the one DarkGod received for calling his Angband variant
"PernAngband". His fault was to using a trademark right in the title of
his game. I guess someone accidentally discovered PernAngband while
searching for "Pern".
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> I am in need of some rules to base my rogue-like around.

Why don't you just create your own rules? This is YOUR game; make
rules that you like. If I wanted to play D&D, I'd play with my friends
instead of a roguelike. Roguelikes are good because they are original.
Try to be original. You might find it's more fun to play and code
something that you created. OTOH, many people still like making
Angband varients instead of their own roguelikes, so I guess they don't
mind not having their own game. Oh well....whatever works for you.

Gamer_2k4
--
Yes, there is a difference between decimal and hexadecimal.
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copx wrote:
> BTW, the only case of a C&D letter send to a roguelike developer I can
> remember is the one DarkGod received for calling his Angband variant
> "PernAngband". His fault was to using a trademark right in the title of
> his game. I guess someone accidentally discovered PernAngband while
> searching for "Pern".

I've never understood what PernAngband took from the Pern mythos,
anyway. Was it just the idea of playing an intelligent dragon?

A.
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Gamer_2k4 wrote:
> Why don't you just create your own rules?

It is much easier to use existing rules.
 >> Stay informed about: Roguelike Rules 

> It is much easier to use existing rules.

Yes, but much more fun to create your own.
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On 20 Apr 2006, Raymond Martineau wrote:
> One other thing - a roguelike has been attempted under the AD&D ruleset.
> This roguelike, "Dungeon Hack", is probably a failed experiment: For
> example, Clerics have much better standing power than Fighters in
> regards to melee combat (due to healing spells.) While this may be
> intetional, it doesn'treally look balanced.

That doesn't suprise me. Pencil & Paper RPGs usually assume multiple
players. For them, "well balanced classes" means every class is
represented in the ideal large party. It's OK if some classes are much
better at one-on-one duels or solo dungeon exploration.

In a roguelike, solo dungeon exploration is all there is. There's no
point leaving gaping holes in a class's skillset for a teammate to
fill, because there are never any teammates. By P&P standards, all the
classes of a well-balanced roguelike are just differently-biased
jacks-of-all-trades.

---- Michael Deutschmann <michael RemoveThis @talamasca.ocis.net>
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Michael Deutschmann wrote:

> In a roguelike, solo dungeon exploration is all there is. There's no
> point leaving gaping holes in a class's skillset for a teammate to
> fill, because there are never any teammates.

Well there could be. What about a roguelike where you can hire NPC
teammate to fill gaping holes in your class's skillset ? This would be
great because it would allow more varied gameplay. Has this already
been tried ? Must be pretty tricky to implement, though...

--
jice
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