Rogue talent and profession question

Hello..

I think dwarf would have been better choice for rogue. NELFs have the boost for stealth so its harder to spot them.. eventually you have to come out of stealth anyway so...
Dwarfs are better because they have racial talent "stoneskin"..it removes dots like poison, disease, bleed ..and that helps you to get back to stealth.. sometimes even rogues have to "give up" and vanish

but anyway, like somebody already wrote subtlety or combat would be nice.. usually sub is for dagger and combat for swords / mace but a lot of sword rogues use also hemo -spec(subtlety + combat tree)..

dagger rogues do the most damage with the opening shot *ambush*... while combat uses *cheap shot* to stun enemy and then hit the *piip* out of "victim".. both have their advantages on PvP.. ..combat is better for leveling (but a bit boring, I think ).
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue talent and profession question 

On Thu, 1 May 2008 21:50:54 +0200, Paul Bolsens wrote:

> Hi,
> Im just starting a night elf rogue and im wondering what talent build i
> should choose and what professions i already got higher lvled char with
> leatherworking, skinning mining tailorinng herb and alchemist and even
> enchanting and jewelcrafting.
>
> Does somebody got good advice

I strongly suggest taking up herbalism and skinning right away - they're
very easy to level up, and can earn you significant cash early in the game
- just selling everything you harvest on the AH will be more than
sufficient for normal and epic ground mounts. Later on you can safely drop
one and learn a secondary complementary profession, alchemy or
leatherworking.

As for talents, it's really up to you, rogue is quite flexible in that
aspect. Though going combat swords will probably save you some time, as it
is a great grinding build, exactly what you need for leveling quickly.

--
nothing right in my left brain, nothing left in my right brain
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue talent and profession question 

heh.. stoneskin.. stoneform was probably the real name for dwarf racial ..there may be some other minor errors also
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue talent and profession question 

R> but anyway, like somebody already wrote subtlety or combat would be
R> nice.. usually sub is for dagger and combat for swords / mace but a
R> lot of sword rogues use also hemo -spec(subtlety + combat tree)..

Why would you say sub is for daggers? One of the most defining sub talents
(Hemorrage) works good only without daggers and it needs the slowest weapon
possible as far as I know.
There are only 2 sub talents that benefit daggers and fairly low that you
dont have to go more than 15 points in sub for them.

R> dagger rogues do the most damage with the opening shot *ambush*...
R> while combat uses *cheap shot* to stun enemy and then hit the *piip*
R> out of "victim".. both have their advantages on PvP.. ..combat is
R> better for leveling (but a bit boring, I think ).

Dagger rogues and resillence is something I really dont like to play. Your
moves are too much dependant of crits for it to work reliably.
Btw last few days I have seen rogues with daggers equipped (lvl 70 rogues)
sub spec till shadowstep and rest in asassination BUT missing imp. ambush
AND imp. backstab.... seriously how can you play daggers without those 2
talents I really don't know.

For the OP, go combat and you wont regret it. At later levels sub becomes
nice too but assasination is just BAD, I tried it at 70 for 2 weeks and it
sucks, all is fine when all works as you want but 1 add or parry/dodge KS or
gouge and you are screwed! And the need of the target poisoned before
mutilate :S I can't immagine how many times I had to do cheap shot then wait
3 sec and I had to do a shiv to apply poison and then I would not have
enough energy to mutilate or even if I mutilate after shiv I have 0
energy...
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue talent and profession question 

"Why would you say sub is for daggers? "

"imp. ambush AND imp. backstab.... seriously how can you play daggers without those 2
talents I really don't know."

..I agree, if you take daggers you should take those too ..so "sub is for daggers" but that does not mean (and I didn't mean) that you cant use sub for anything else ..and I did mention going hemo and using other weapons..

"but a lot of sword rogues use also hemo"
well.. I could have written that a bit better.
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue talent and profession question 

> ..I agree, if you take daggers you should take those too ..so "sub is
> for daggers"
> but that does not mean (and I didn't mean) that you cant use sub for
> anything else ..and I did mention going hemo and using other weapons..

Improved ambush is a waste of talent points, even for dagger rogues. There
are far better talents to spend those talent points on, and you shouldn't be
opening with ambush 95% of the time anyway.

If you want to use daggers, spec mutilate or don't use daggers. ;o And don't
spec improved ambush for any build -_-

> Dagger rogues and resillence is something I really dont like to play.
> Your moves are too much dependant of crits for it to work reliably.

You will still crit a decent amount with a mutilate build, the only reason
mutilate is not the no.1. pvp rogue spec is not because of resilience. It's
because of:

a) Mobility
b) Positioning

If these were better, then there would be no reason to not spec mutilate.
It's burst is way better than any other build. Unfortunately, they're also
easy to get away from.

ave
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue talent and profession question 

"Improved ambush is a waste of talent points, even for dagger rogues. There
are far better talents to spend those talent points on, and you shouldn't be
opening with ambush 95% of the time anyway. "

But I like ambushing ..after a kill you'll get nearly 100% crit chance to the next ambush with imp ambush and few points @ assassination.. Its fun to play with and I think thats the most important thing.
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue talent and profession question 

> But I like ambushing

That doesn't mean it actually a good choice of opener in pvp.

> ..after a kill you'll get nearly 100% crit chance to the next ambush with
> imp ambush
> and few points @ assassination..

If you mean, with points in remorseless attacks. You've already failed as a
pvp rogue. In pve it's not much better either. Remorseless attacks is
another of those rogue talents "you should not spec"(tm).

> Its fun to play with and I think thats the most important thing.

Well, if you enjoy losing, or playing with a disadvantage, sure. I can't
help if you don't want to win ;o.

ave
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue talent and profession question 

heh .. I'm sure ambush doesn't work in arena (havent even tried..), but in bg its been great fun ..soloing, well its ok but there will be some trouble if first shot doesnt crit

.. playing mace / sword rogue.. sure its efficient but I find it a bit boring.. I think it was like "stun and whack till its dead"..

In bg I enjoy stealthing and waiting for that "perfect" moment to strike..

player on low health .."not to worry, it'll all be over soon"
mage having a drink.. "please do enjoy your last drink" ..

I dont find myself being in disadvantage..
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue talent and profession question 

"Paul Bolsens" <paul.bolsens RemoveThis @telenet.be> wrote in message
news:rapSj.1656$815.704@newsfe16.ams2...
> Hi,
> Im just starting a night elf rogue and im wondering what talent build i
> should choose and what professions i already got higher lvled char with
> leatherworking, skinning mining tailorinng herb and alchemist and even
> enchanting and jewelcrafting.
>
> Does somebody got good advice
>

even toolie you want to end up here. For Solo Subtlety go great together !!

Aliase started out skinning/ alchemist, ended up at Engineering / enchanting

besides the Turbo copter, engineering can make money at that trade.

Aliase Hume Rogue
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Zul%27jin&n=Aliase
Subtlety solo PVE
5/22/34



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dracman
Tomb Raider: Shotgun City
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Zebby (the machete) NE Huntress / Aja Nightstalker cat (bite,prowl)
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Zul%27jin&n=Zebby
Marksmanship solo PVE
17/34/10
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 >> Stay informed about: Rogue talent and profession question 

> heh .. I'm sure ambush doesn't work in arena (havent even tried..), but in
> bg its been great fun

Great fun it maybe (zomg! I crit teh sitting maeg for 4k!!), it's also
skill-less and a huge disadvantage to yourself and incredibly reliant on rng
(there is already a lot of rng in the game, why make your char depend on it
*even more*). All you've done is reduce their health-pool in the opener.
That is further from a 'guaranteed victory' than just about any other
standard opener you could have chosen.

And despite the large numbers you see on your screen, you will typically do
*less* overall damage and be easier to counter than a similarly geared rogue
with a decent spec.

> ..soloing,

When you're in a battleground, you're never playing "solo".

....I bet you play alliance.... ;p <3

> well its ok but there will be some trouble if first shot doesnt crit

If you're in trouble because your opener didn't crit then that surely must
suggest something is wrong with your build? Rogues can bring down *any*
class out there. They are an incredibly dangerous class 1v1 when played
correctly, whether your opener crits or not!

> I think it was like "stun and whack till its dead"..

It doesn't matter what your build is, bringing down a decent opponent as a
rogue is always a 'bit' more than that ;o

> player on low health .."not to worry, it'll all be over soon"

The very definition of "poor rogue". =/
If they're on low health they are likely to die whatever your spec is.

> mage having a drink.. "please do enjoy your last drink" ..

You get 100% crit chance on someone sitting, having a drink, with any spec.
You don't need to spec remorselessness nor improved ambush to get that.

> I dont find myself being in disadvantage..

The only reason for that is the majority of player's you're meeting have
poor gear. And whilst you may not find yourself disadvantaged, you have
already disadvantaged your team.

> In bg I enjoy stealthing and waiting for that "perfect" moment to strike..

^^^^ this is a team disadvantage. Stealthing and finding an appropriate time
to attack is fine as a rogue, but if that's only because if they don't die
in your first hit, you're screwed... then I just hope I don't have you on my
bg team someday ;o

ave
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue talent and profession question 

sorry that I dont play like YOU want me to..

"If you're in trouble because your opener didn't crit then that... "
you took that a little too seriously. Fight is a lot shorter when opener crits.

Why shouldnt I finish a player with low health? when I can do it usually with one strike.

"You get 100% crit chance on someone sitting, having a drink, with any spec.
You don't need to spec remorselessness nor improved ambush to get that."
wow ..did you realize that by yourself?

and you need not to worry how I'm doing damage in bg.. I'm doing quite fine.

I said I enjoy stealthing but I didnt say that I "have to".

"then I just hope I don't have you on my
bg team someday ;o "
heh.. well you sound like one of those bg whiners ..sit on gy and whine how all the others are playing "wrong" but don't actually do anything to help.

You're quite a troll aren't you?
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue talent and profession question 

In <1003375242.61209749953780.JavaMail.nntpgw@xnews001> rogue.TakeThisOut@gogo.com writes:

> sorry that I dont play like YOU want me to..

I think you're taking his comments the wrong way.

If you're having fun and that's all you care about, then no need to change.
End of story.

But, if you're interested in improving your performance and becoming a
better PVPer, he was offering some tips.

--
John Gordon A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon.TakeThisOut@panix.com B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
-- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue talent and profession question