Rogue at level 57 --outland next

sparks wrote:
> Well I have only a few thousand to get to level 58...
> any help and info is greatly appreciated

Hellfire can be pretty rough on melee classes. I'd stay in
Winterspring, Un'Goro, or wherever you are most comfortable, until 60.
I took Oggie there at 58, and I found that I did all the easy quests
and then got stuck. I had to spend ages just grinding low level mobs
until I was high enough to take on the next set of quests, and got
splatted three times doing it - once by a wandering Fel Orc elite,
once by a Fel Reaver, and once by Fulgorge. That's in addition to the
usual oops-three-adds problems.

Hoofu, 70 tauren shaman, Argent Dawn (EU)
Ognian, 70 troll warrior, Argent Dawn (EU)
Booty, 67 orc hunter, Arathor (EU)
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue at level 57 --outland next 

> I'd take murder before you max out Lethality. Probably max out both of
> those before I messed with the poison talents for a leveling build.

I wouldn't take murder over lethality, in a pve build, simply because the
majority of mobs you face do not fall under the requisite 'type'. If you're
against the mentioned mob types, then yes, point for point, murder is
better. And whilst you do come across these in instances the majority (and
majorly, most bosses) do not come under the type.

>>4/5 Vile Poisons buys you +16% poison damage and +32% on dispel
>>resistance.

The vile/improved poisons choice is pretty much mostly for the increased
envenom damage. Improved poisons is a perfectly viable alternative.

> I think the base proc chance is 30%, which brings the two numbers
> closer together. But basically, you're right. While leveling you
> probably want to use dual instant poisons which makes Vile Poisons
> pretty useless outside of PvP and dungeon crawls.

I would recommend more, using instant poison mainhand and deadly poison
offhand. With, perhaps, another poison on an alternate offhand that you can
switch to when needed.

But, different strokes

ave
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue at level 57 --outland next 

Looked on the AH last night and swords between 56 and 62. There were 9
1 epic and 2 blue caster swords out of that. So 6 green swords and all
were junk.

THIS IS Typical Buzzard carp driving up the gold use again.
ps 20 thick leather 18G ??

I played this rogue all the way and I got 2 blue drops ... a mail helm
and last night I got a blue dagger. Julie's Dagger whoop de Fing doo.

so 58 levels and 2 blue drops...wow they are dropping like rain.

ok like rain in the desert.



On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:25:37 GMT, sparks <sparks RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:

>Well I have only a few thousand to get to level 58.
>I have played combat swords till now, ok armor..NOTHING special in
>armor or weapons.
>All armor and weapons is of the monkey. +agi and + stamina
>
>Now everyone is saying having fun and slow as hell looser (ok these
>are my friends?? LOL)
>
>All I hear is IF you would spec sub you would kill faster and take
>less damage....of course all of these hot shots have been level 70 for
>over a year. AND NONE will admit to anything else even when they
>leveled up..BS I know some of them leveled combat sword.
>
>anyway is full Subtlety the best spec thru outlands?
>
>Right now I am in winterspring and have to bandage or eat after 3-4
>mobs(max)
>I just cheap shot, SS, slice and dice, SS, SS, SS, Evis mob is about
>1/3 health so I am not setting the world on fire. Compared to other
>chrs I have leveled he just feels slow.
>
>
>any help and info is greatly appreciated
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue at level 57 --outland next 

On Jul 10, 7:47 am, PhilHibbs <sna... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> sparks wrote:
> > Well I have only a few thousand to get to level 58...
> > any help and info is greatly appreciated
>
> Hellfire can be pretty rough on melee classes. I'd stay in
> Winterspring, Un'Goro, or wherever you are most comfortable, until 60.
> I took Oggie there at 58, and I found that I did all the easy quests
> and then got stuck. I had to spend ages just grinding low level mobs
> until I was high enough to take on the next set of quests, and got
> splatted three times doing it - once by a wandering Fel Orc elite,
> once by a Fel Reaver, and once by Fulgorge. That's in addition to the
> usual oops-three-adds problems.

I agree with this. I waited until 60, and rarely had to grind mobs to
level.

Also, as a note to the original poster, there are two nice dagger
quest rewards in Hellfire for the alliance, so don't bother buying new
ones before you go.

Hosse, 66 Night Elf Rogue, Sub-spec
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue at level 57 --outland next 

On Jul 8, 8:25 am, sparks <spa... RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
> Well I have only a few thousand to get to level 58.
> I have played combat swords till now, ok armor..NOTHING special in
> armor or weapons.
> All armor and weapons is of the monkey. +agi and + stamina
>
> Now everyone is saying having fun and slow as hell looser (ok these
> are my friends??   LOL)
>
> All I hear is IF you would spec sub you would kill faster and take
> less damage....of course all of these hot shots have been level 70 for
> over a year. AND NONE will admit to anything else even when they
> leveled up..BS I know some of them leveled combat sword.
>
> anyway is full Subtlety the best spec thru outlands?
>
> Right now I am in winterspring and have to bandage or eat after 3-4
> mobs(max)
> I just cheap shot, SS, slice and dice, SS, SS, SS, Evis mob is about
> 1/3 health  so I am not setting the world on fire. Compared to other
> chrs I have leveled he just feels slow.
>
> any help and info is greatly appreciated

I am having a lot of good luck with a Sub/ass spec. I can often short-
circuit quests by sneaking past most mobs, and can kill quickly when I
need too. I use sword/mace, unarmed, and daggers (I mix it up for
fun, and so when I get a great drop I can just use it).

I won't make any claims whether it is better than other specs, but it
works for me.

I usually solo, or work with other rogues, so take that into
consideration...
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue at level 57 --outland next 

Just respeced down the combat tree and I feel that my damage dropped
a lot from what I had..Maybe its just me.

Hey I have one more question.

Surprise Attacks
0 energy
0 casting time
0 cooldown

is this castable or what?

I think I am missing something.
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue at level 57 --outland next 

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 16:58:27 GMT, sparks <sparks.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:

>Just respeced down the combat tree and I feel that my damage dropped
>a lot from what I had..Maybe its just me.

- make sure you have the right weapons for a combat spec; a slow (2.6+
speed) main hand and fast (1.6-) offhand. A fast offhand weapon is
crucial because of combat potency.

- Make sure you're using the right rotation; you probably want to open
up with Cheap Shot and then Slice 'n Dice whenever possible. One of
the things to remember about a combat spec is that you get a lot more
damage out of SnD than a Mut or ShS rogue would so you always want to
have that up.

- Use poisons, you'll get a lot of procs with SnD running all the
time.

You won't see much of a difference versus a ShS build if you're just
fighting single mobs of about your level. If the fight only lasts
10-15 seconds, the opening burst of ShS will compete with combat's
damage. Combat pulls ahead once you start fighting elites in an
instance or you solo groups of non-elite mobs. Sap-Blind-Evasion-Blade
Flurry-Adrenaline Rush will let you kill 4 non-elites and end the
fight at over half hitpoints. ... once every 5 minutes. <g> .

>Hey I have one more question.
>
>Surprise Attacks
>0 energy
>0 casting time
>0 cooldown
>
>is this castable or what?
>

What Catriona said.

Rgds, Frank
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue at level 57 --outland next 

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 04:47:32 -0400, ToolPackinMama
<philnblanc RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:

>As a sub-spec, I not only can stealth past nearly anything, but I can do
>it at a fairly brisk pace.
>
>I can stealth right up to foes, step on their toes, and keep stepping
>right past them.
>
>I don't have to EASE past them, I can SQUEEZE past them.

Of course you don't have to be sub spec for that; I always put 5 points
in master of deception while levelling with a otherwise standard
combat/assassination build, problem solved At max level I usually
drop it again as it doesn't make that much difference (although granted
I've rarely played my rogue since the various bunched of new dailies
with +70 lvl mobs came in, probably I could use picking it up again!),
but when WotLK comes I'll again respec and get it for the levelling
process.

The speed thing I've never really had a problem with, it's slow at low
lvls but plenty fast enough for me at high lvls even without the talent;
the only sub talent I ever had beyond master of deception was the one
for sap not taking you out of stealth (and I always cursed about it only
being 90% chance) when it was only needing 5 points in the tree. Once
that got rolled into the basic ability (thank goodness!) I dropped it
again!
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair (70 Human Rogue)
Naomh (70 Draenei Priest)
Sagart (70 Undead Priest)
Rosad (70 Human Warlock)
Eilnich (70 Blood Elf Warlock)
Sealgair (70 Dwarf Hunter)
Buinne (64 Troll Shaman)
Beag (60 Dwarf Paladin)
Tairbh (60 Tauren Druid)
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue at level 57 --outland next 

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:13:37 +0100, "ave" <ave.TakeThisOut@nomailplease.com> wrote:

>> I'd take murder before you max out Lethality. Probably max out both of
>> those before I messed with the poison talents for a leveling build.
>
>I wouldn't take murder over lethality, in a pve build, simply because the
>majority of mobs you face do not fall under the requisite 'type'. If you're
>against the mentioned mob types, then yes, point for point, murder is
>better. And whilst you do come across these in instances the majority (and
>majorly, most bosses) do not come under the type.

Interesting discussion about these talents, something I always wondered
myself; usually I have lethality and not murder but worth seeing other
opinions! What do you guys make of murder vs imp eviscerate? I have to
take *something* to reach the 3rd tier, and usually just put 2 in imp
evis, but the higher level I get the less I use it; solo I kidney shot
unless the mob's about to die and in groups I slice and dice unless it's
the last mob in a pack... so given how eviscerate just doesn't seem to
cut it with the scaling any more, should I take Murder instead?

>> I think the base proc chance is 30%, which brings the two numbers
>> closer together. But basically, you're right. While leveling you
>> probably want to use dual instant poisons which makes Vile Poisons
>> pretty useless outside of PvP and dungeon crawls.
>
>I would recommend more, using instant poison mainhand and deadly poison
>offhand. With, perhaps, another poison on an alternate offhand that you can
>switch to when needed.
>
>But, different strokes

I've always used dual instant when levelling, with the logic that the
mob shouldn't live long enough for deadly to do as much damage as
instant would

At least, when I've bothered to use poisons at all; have to say I
usually don't, as with any other buffs I find myself not wanting to
"waste" them unless I'm going to fight constantly fo the duration.
Trying to train myself out of that one and just use the things anyway;
levelling an alchemist druid is helping as I'm reminding myself to
always drink the potions he's skilled up on
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair (70 Human Rogue)
Naomh (70 Draenei Priest)
Sagart (70 Undead Priest)
Rosad (70 Human Warlock)
Eilnich (70 Blood Elf Warlock)
Sealgair (70 Dwarf Hunter)
Buinne (64 Troll Shaman)
Beag (60 Dwarf Paladin)
Tairbh (60 Tauren Druid)
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue at level 57 --outland next 

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:20:21 +0100, Catriona R
<catrionarNOSPAM.DeleteThis@totalise.co.uk> wrote:

>
>On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:13:37 +0100, "ave" <ave.DeleteThis@nomailplease.com> wrote:
>
>>> I'd take murder before you max out Lethality. Probably max out both of
>>> those before I messed with the poison talents for a leveling build.
>>
>>I wouldn't take murder over lethality, in a pve build, simply because the
>>majority of mobs you face do not fall under the requisite 'type'. If you're
>>against the mentioned mob types, then yes, point for point, murder is
>>better. And whilst you do come across these in instances the majority (and
>>majorly, most bosses) do not come under the type.
>
>Interesting discussion about these talents, something I always wondered
>myself; usually I have lethality and not murder but worth seeing other
>opinions! What do you guys make of murder vs imp eviscerate? I have to
>take *something* to reach the 3rd tier, and usually just put 2 in imp
>evis, but the higher level I get the less I use it; solo I kidney shot
>unless the mob's about to die and in groups I slice and dice unless it's
>the last mob in a pack... so given how eviscerate just doesn't seem to
>cut it with the scaling any more, should I take Murder instead?

Realistically, eviscerate might make up 5% of your total damage if you
use it a lot. Using that number, each point in Improved Evisc will
increase your overall damge by 0.25%.

Each point in murder will increase your overall damage by 1%, but only
if you're fighting the right type of mobs. Since murder works against
humanoids and animals (among others), I disagree with 'ave' and am of
the opinion that most of the mobs you fight will be affected so I much
prefer murder.

My standard first 11 points in Assassination is:
5/5 Malice
2/2 Murder
3/3 Ruthlessness
1/1 Relentless strikes

Rgds, Frank
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue at level 57 --outland next 

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 16:58:27 GMT, sparks <sparks.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:

>Just respeced down the combat tree and I feel that my damage dropped
>a lot from what I had..Maybe its just me.
>
>Hey I have one more question.
>
>Surprise Attacks
>0 energy
>0 casting time
>0 cooldown
>
>is this castable or what?
>
>I think I am missing something.

It's passive, meaning it's always on, just part of you as long as you
have that spec.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair (70 Human Rogue)
Naomh (70 Draenei Priest)
Sagart (70 Undead Priest)
Rosad (70 Human Warlock)
Eilnich (70 Blood Elf Warlock)
Sealgair (70 Dwarf Hunter)
Buinne (64 Troll Shaman)
Beag (60 Dwarf Paladin)
Tairbh (60 Tauren Druid)
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue at level 57 --outland next 

On Jul 10, 10:20 am, Catriona R <catrionarNOS....DeleteThis@totalise.co.uk>
> I've always used dual instant when levelling, with the logic that the
> mob shouldn't live long enough for deadly to do as much damage as
> instant would

That was my thinking too. I was hoping to bait someone into saying
"no, no, Wound Poison does more damage because...", but it seems it
isn't so.

> At least, when I've bothered to use poisons at all; have to say I
> usually don't, as with any other buffs I find myself not wanting to
> "waste" them unless I'm going to fight constantly fo the duration.
> Trying to train myself out of that one and just use the things anyway;
> levelling an alchemist druid is helping as I'm reminding myself to
> always drink the potions he's skilled up on

I've had the same issue. As I keep the poison-making skill up, I end
up with all these stacks of poisons. I try to make the ones I would
actually use, when I can. With poison components coming from
junkboxes, poisons are nearly free (well, the cost of the vial), which
helps blast open my wallet to spend them.

My shaman alchemist always seems to have several potions to use. I
like having a hybrid alchemist, since he can use pretty much anything
he makes (Strength boost? Spell damage? It all helps).

- Prelgor
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue at level 57 --outland next 

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 15:15:49 -0400, Frank E <fakeaddress.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Realistically, eviscerate might make up 5% of your total damage if you
>use it a lot. Using that number, each point in Improved Evisc will
>increase your overall damge by 0.25%.
>
>Each point in murder will increase your overall damage by 1%, but only
>if you're fighting the right type of mobs. Since murder works against
>humanoids and animals (among others), I disagree with 'ave' and am of
>the opinion that most of the mobs you fight will be affected so I much
>prefer murder.
>
>My standard first 11 points in Assassination is:
>5/5 Malice
>2/2 Murder
>3/3 Ruthlessness
>1/1 Relentless strikes

Makese sense, I always took 2 in imp evis instead of murder, but I'll
change that on my next respec I think Even in WotLK where there'll
be a lot of undead, there'll still be enough humanoids beasts and
dragonkin to be worthwhile I think. Thanks!
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair (70 Human Rogue)
Naomh (70 Draenei Priest)
Sagart (70 Undead Priest)
Rosad (70 Human Warlock)
Eilnich (70 Blood Elf Warlock)
Sealgair (70 Dwarf Hunter)
Buinne (64 Troll Shaman)
Beag (60 Dwarf Paladin)
Tairbh (60 Tauren Druid)
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue at level 57 --outland next