Rogue dings 70 and does BGs

"ave" <ave.TakeThisOut@nomailplease.com> wrote:

>> Rupture is only a minor annoyance for restealthing and means you
>> haven't stunned him - he's now free to stunlock you...
>
>If you don't have rupture on him, he is free to do what he wants anyway.

.... except he isn't, because he's stunned.

>> Kidney-shot is always a better choice than rupture, IMO.
>
>Kidney shot is only ever better than rupture if he already has rupture or
>another physical dot on him. Or you have no cooldowns, or he's already used
>his cooldowns. ie. If you've seen him use trinket previously, then kidney is
>better than rupture.

In my opinion, kidney-shot is better than rupture whenever the other
rogue is not stunned already. All the time he's stunned, you are in
complete control of the fight, he's taking damage, you aren't.
That's what stunlock is all about, after all. Two stunlock cycles
and an enemy rogue will be dead. Rogues are fragile. A stunned rogue
cannot dodge or parry.

If he trinkets kidney shot, he's now vulnerable to blind/gouge and
restealth to restart stunlock.

>> Rupture does not stop him restealthing,
>It prevents bandage + restealth which is far more important than simply
>restealth prevention. Sure he can vanish inbetween rupture ticks, but that
>can be mistimed and isn't the most important reason anyway.

If he needs to break off and bandage, he's already losing the fight.
To do worthwhile bandaging, he needs to blind you - which is of
course when you trinket, vanish and cheap-shot. He might get in one
or two ticks of bandage, but you now have him in stunlock and are
controlling the fight again.

>> Personally I wouldn't use my trinket on the initial kidney-shot, but
>> wait until he blinded/gouged to restealth - then trinket, vanish and
>> cheap-shot. Chances are you'll have him in stunlock before he can
>> react.
>
>I don't use it always either, it depends on how good the rogue looks and
>whether he applies rupture or not. If kidney is applied with no rupture I
>will assume the rogue is not very good and I haven't met a good rogue who
>chose a kidney opener rather than a rupture opener yet.

Well, all I can say is my experience is opposite - if an enemy rogue
uses rupture on me, I grin because I know I'm going to win (unless
he signifcantly out-gears me.)

>Basically, against another rogue. You need rupture up 100% of the time,
>except when you're preparing for blind.

Correspondingly, having rupture up compromises your ability to
choose when to blind.

Dan
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue dings 70 and does BGs 

"ave" <ave.RemoveThis@nomailplease.com> wrote:

>> Another good point - if you rupture another rogue, you remove the
>> option to blind and bandage/restealth. Save the ruptures for kiting
>> warriors.
>
>It's only a good point if you're bad at playing rogue, you don't "remove the
>option to blind and bandage/restealth" you merely add a duration where it
>isn't possible.

Obviously I didn't mean "it removes the option forever and you'll
never be able to blind ever again!"

>Timing blind at the end of a rupture isn't rocket science

Of course not, but you have sacrificed the ability to use blind and
gouge) tactically for the duration of the rupture and at the same
time, you're more likely to need them than if the rogue is stunned
and helpless. 16 seconds is an awfully long time in a fight to be
unable to use two key tools.

>Not being able to do it means you simply:
>a) Need to use blind/rupture at more appropriate times.

You need to be free to use it when it's tactically important - i.e.
when you need to restealth to enter a new stunlock cycle, or when
you want to make them waste their evasion / cheat death / sprint
time. You can't guarentee that rupture will wear off before you need
blind.

Not to mention that I think letting them out of stun by using
rupture is a tactical blunder in the first place. Another rogue is
one of the few classes to fight where stunlock-until-dead is still
possible at L70. Most classes have too much damage mitigation, or
too many break-out tools for it to work any more.

Dan
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue dings 70 and does BGs 

> ... except he isn't, because he's stunned.

If you can stun lock a rogue from 100 to 0 then his gear sucks and he'd die
anyway ;o Either that or he's afk.

> If he trinkets kidney shot, he's now vulnerable to blind/gouge and
> restealth to restart stunlock.

And so are you, if you trinket his blind he will just vanish and stun-lock
you, as described previously. I am not suggesting trinketting any kidney,
nor am I suggesting to do it all the time. Trinketting blind is usually a
far better tactic, except against rogues who don't apply rupture.

> If he needs to break off and bandage, he's already losing the fight.
> To do worthwhile bandaging, he needs to blind you - which is of
> course when you trinket, vanish and cheap-shot. He might get in one
> or two ticks of bandage, but you now have him in stunlock and are
> controlling the fight again.

If you trinket blind and vanish, he is simply going to vanish right back at
you if he has no rupture applied. Even with 30% health verses a full health
rogue it is possible to win assuming cooldowns are available.

> Well, all I can say is my experience is opposite - if an enemy rogue
> uses rupture on me, I grin because I know I'm going to win (unless
> he signifcantly out-gears me.)

And, in my experience, having rupture on means I have a better chance of
winning. It isn't about *not* using kidney, it is about using kidney when it
will give the better outcome. I would typically lose more 1v1 rogue games
opening with cheap-shot followed by kidney than opening with cheap shot and
a 5 point rupture then using kidney after once the combo points are back up
again.

> Correspondingly, having rupture up compromises your ability to
> choose when to blind.

No, it doesn't...

ave
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue dings 70 and does BGs 

> Of course not, but you have sacrificed the ability to use blind and
> gouge) tactically for the duration of the rupture and at the same
> time, you're more likely to need them than if the rogue is stunned

And that's simply a choice you make during the fight. It is a tactical
decision when to use rupture and when not to, but not applying it should be
a decision you make, not something you simply leave out.

>>a) Need to use blind/rupture at more appropriate times.
>
> You need to be free to use it when it's tactically important - i.e.

That is what I meant, you don't apply rupture when you know you're going to
need blind soon. And also you always blind just as rupture ends. Leaving him
without rupture on makes it much easier for the other rogue in the choices
they have available.

> Not to mention that I think letting them out of stun by using
> rupture is a tactical blunder in the first place. Another rogue is
> one of the few classes to fight where stunlock-until-dead is still
> possible at L70. Most classes have too much damage mitigation, or
> too many break-out tools for it to work any more.

My rogue hasn't been stunlocked to death in months, except where there is
more than one opponent on me.

ave
 >> Stay informed about: Rogue dings 70 and does BGs