Resillence...

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:00:49 +0200, "Shammy" <none.TakeThisOut@nothing.com> wrote:

>I'm not a fan of resillence as it completly destroys some crit based builds
>and many classes dont have many choices left.
>I'm wondering did anyone try to test relillence and see the results given
>over a period of time, for example hit a healer with like 450 resillence for
>a few min and then check how much did you crit on it. I have the impression
>that when you hit on a player that has 450+ resillence (12% or something
>less to be crit) you actually crit way less than that, and your crits become
>meaningless...
>For example my druid has 41% crit but on a lock or priest with a LOAD of
>resillence I have the impression that I crit on them 10% or less but I
>should still have around 28% crit on them at least... are they lying to us
>about resillence?

Could it be that they have other talents to reduce how much you crit on
them? For example I know the priest talents that proc off crits (including
one that prevents you being crit again for 6 seconds) can also proc off
crits that were turned into hits by resilience (or by that talent) So
theoretically a priest could be almost crit immune. I don't have that
talent yet but I'm getting it on my next respec, will be interesting to see
how well it works.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 70)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

> I'm not a fan of resillence as it completly destroys some crit based
> builds and many classes dont have many choices left.

The point of resilience is to reduce how effective crit based builds are, so
that people don't get gibbed in 3 seconds.

> that when you hit on a player that has 450+ resillence (12% or something
> less to be crit) you actually crit way less than that, and your crits
> become meaningless...

My rogue has around 34% crit chance atm, against high resi targets it feels
like I crit as I'd expect to with the reduction. Against low resilience
targets she is evil :s

> I pvp with my rogue now and I'm wondering should I gem it for crit or AP,
> he has 1450 AP and 24,5% crit atm but on ppl with a lot of resillence I
> almost dont crit at all...

I personally gem with 8ag gems (red sockets), ap + crit gems in yellow
sockets. If you're combat based build, I would suggest raw AP gems in red
sockets instead. Unbuffed my rogue has around 10.5k health, 1750 ap, 34%
crit, almost 30% dodge. I use the 24ap + run speed meta gem.

ave
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

In article <67bk5aF2na13iU4.RemoveThis@mid.individual.net>,
Catriona R <catrionarNOSPAM.RemoveThis@totalise.co.uk> wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:00:49 +0200, "Shammy" <none.RemoveThis@nothing.com> wrote:
>
> >I'm not a fan of resillence as it completly destroys some crit based builds
> >and many classes dont have many choices left.
> >I'm wondering did anyone try to test relillence and see the results given
> >over a period of time, for example hit a healer with like 450 resillence for
> >a few min and then check how much did you crit on it. I have the impression
> >that when you hit on a player that has 450+ resillence (12% or something
> >less to be crit) you actually crit way less than that, and your crits become
> >meaningless...
> >For example my druid has 41% crit but on a lock or priest with a LOAD of
> >resillence I have the impression that I crit on them 10% or less but I
> >should still have around 28% crit on them at least... are they lying to us
> >about resillence?
>
> Could it be that they have other talents to reduce how much you crit on
> them? For example I know the priest talents that proc off crits (including
> one that prevents you being crit again for 6 seconds) can also proc off
> crits that were turned into hits by resilience (or by that talent) So
> theoretically a priest could be almost crit immune. I don't have that
> talent yet but I'm getting it on my next respec, will be interesting to see
> how well it works.

Hmm, I haven't done any real research on the Disc-pvp build of my 60
priest but that bit of info you provide would explain how I survive so
well even against lvl 69 rogues in WSG and AB. I can't imagine doing
battlegrounds without these talents -- stunlock and death before it
wears off is one of those things that makes you wonder why anyone plays
this game and whether it's time to ditch it. Fortunately it doesn't
happen to my priest anymore.
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

On 25 avr, 05:16, Catriona R <catrionarNOS... DeleteThis @totalise.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:20:34 -0600, chocolatemalt
>
> <myothern... DeleteThis @dim.com.removethis> wrote:
> >Hmm, I haven't done any real research on the Disc-pvp build of my 60
> >priest but that bit of info you provide would explain how I survive so
> >well even against lvl 69 rogues in WSG and AB. I can't imagine doing
> >battlegrounds without these talents -- stunlock and death before it
> >wears off is one of those things that makes you wonder why anyone plays
> >this game and whether it's time to ditch it. Fortunately it doesn't
> >happen to my priest anymore.
>
> Heh yeah, that was seriously painful, now my priest has 11k health and 350
> res it only happens with more than one wellgeared player on me, so it's a
> fair bit more tolerable! I still go down too fast when they focus me
> though; once I'm done with the stuff I need to farm a respec is called for,
> dropping some of my soloing talents and getting blessed resilience and
> circle of healing... with those I'm expecting to have some pretty nice
> survivability

Well, to be completely honest, I doubt you'll see much of an
improvement over discipline. I currently have 10k health and 380-
something resilience, and the only class which I need assistance to
tank is the warrior, whether I'm discipline or holy, and even then I
find it a bit easier as discipline against them, especially when pain
suppression isn't on cooldown. The reason is simple: focused will is
superior to blessed resilience against mortal strike - blessed
resilience only removes crits, so you still take "double damage" when
afflicted with the mortal strike debuff even if you're crit immune,
whereas focused will cuts the incoming damage from all attacks and
boosts my own healing abilities. Less white hits generate less rage,
so my shield lasts longer, which makes my inner fire last a bit longer
too, which reduces even more the incoming damage. Also, focused will
cuts the effects of attacks that cannot crit such as dots.

Holy has the benefit of vastly superior healing abilities though, so
it's kind of a 50/50 deal for survivability, but discipline has the
advantage of dealing more passive damage through reflective shield,
and then there's the power infusion & pain suppression that can be
applied on others... I prefer the discipline gameplay these days, as I
find the spec to be more decisive in PVP, even if it has less healing
throughput.
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:20:34 -0600, chocolatemalt
<myothername.TakeThisOut@dim.com.removethis> wrote:

>Hmm, I haven't done any real research on the Disc-pvp build of my 60
>priest but that bit of info you provide would explain how I survive so
>well even against lvl 69 rogues in WSG and AB. I can't imagine doing
>battlegrounds without these talents -- stunlock and death before it
>wears off is one of those things that makes you wonder why anyone plays
>this game and whether it's time to ditch it. Fortunately it doesn't
>happen to my priest anymore.

Heh yeah, that was seriously painful, now my priest has 11k health and 350
res it only happens with more than one wellgeared player on me, so it's a
fair bit more tolerable! I still go down too fast when they focus me
though; once I'm done with the stuff I need to farm a respec is called for,
dropping some of my soloing talents and getting blessed resilience and
circle of healing... with those I'm expecting to have some pretty nice
survivability
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 70)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

Shammy wrote:

> Another question but I didnt want to do 2 posts :p
> I pvp with my rogue now and I'm wondering should I gem it for crit or AP, he
> has 1450 AP and 24,5% crit atm but on ppl with a lot of resillence I almost
> dont crit at all...

I've AP & minor speed in the Meta socket, AP in red sockets and a mix of
AP and crit in yellow ones in order to maintain a ~30% crit chance. With
talents from the Subtlety tree and S1/Veteran/Vindicator gear I've currently
got 1680 AP and 30.3% crit.

--
Goldberry: lvl 70 Human Rogue (15/0/46) @ Darkspear EU (PvE)
Nikíta: lvl 59 Human Rogue (25/0/25) @ Spinebreaker EU (PvP)
Anepu: lvl 46 Undead Warlock (37/0/0) @ Karazhan EU (PvP)
Lilitu: lvl 35 Undead Rogue (7/0/19) @ Karazhan EU (PvP)
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

On Apr 25, 3:58 pm, Catriona R <catrionarNOS... RemoveThis @totalise.co.uk> wrote:
> Well I'm not discipline, that tree looks horrible so I'm holy /disc
> 23/33/5, 5-man/soloing build with a couple of pvp talents. I have
> absolutely zero intention of ever going discipline, the tree looks like no
> fun at all at higher levels, while I just love holy.

Respecs are not too expensive, you could always try it out and find
out for sure that you don't like it

I sure enjoyed playing alongside a disc priest in arena with my resto
druid. We made an odd combination but were practically unkillable.
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

On Apr 25, 4:29 pm, Catriona R <catrionarNOS... DeleteThis @totalise.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:24:52 -0700 (PDT), "Mark (newsgroups)"
>
> <marknewsgro... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 25, 3:58 pm, Catriona R <catrionarNOS... DeleteThis @totalise.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Well I'm not discipline, that tree looks horrible so I'm holy /disc
> >> 23/33/5, 5-man/soloing build with a couple of pvp talents. I have
> >> absolutely zero intention of ever going discipline, the tree looks like no
> >> fun at all at higher levels, while I just love holy.
>
> >Respecs are not too expensive, you could always try it out and find
> >out for sure that you don't like it
>
> I could, but why bother when I'm not interested in it? Far rather make a
> spec I *am* interested in. I play to have fun...

As do I, and most people. Won't stop me from trying different builds,
in fact I consider that part of the fun.
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

On 25 avr, 17:29, Catriona R <catrionarNOS... DeleteThis @totalise.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:24:52 -0700 (PDT), "Mark (newsgroups)"
>
> <marknewsgro... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 25, 3:58 pm, Catriona R <catrionarNOS... DeleteThis @totalise.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Well I'm not discipline, that tree looks horrible so I'm holy /disc
> >> 23/33/5, 5-man/soloing build with a couple of pvp talents. I have
> >> absolutely zero intention of ever going discipline, the tree looks like no
> >> fun at all at higher levels, while I just love holy.
>
> >Respecs are not too expensive, you could always try it out and find
> >out for sure that you don't like it
>
> I could, but why bother when I'm not interested in it? Far rather make a
> spec I *am* interested in. I play to have fun...

Winning is fun, try it some time

For ~90% of my gameplay as priest, I'm 23/33/5, too. I only spec
discipline when I pvp, specifically in arenas, because I really really
don't like jeopardizing a hard fight by not putting all the chances on
my side. My raid specs will always be optimized to the bones, just
like my arena specs, because I care too much for my partners to go
cheap with them. Call that "playing to win".

But I completely agree that the 23/33/5 "spirit build" is just
extraordinary fun. It's the closest build to god, I mean, for soloing
purposes of course. Call that "playing to have fun"
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 23:32:38 -0700 (PDT), Babe Bridou
<babebridou.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 25 avr, 05:16, Catriona R <catrionarNOS....DeleteThis@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:20:34 -0600, chocolatemalt
>>
>> <myothern....DeleteThis@dim.com.removethis> wrote:
>> >Hmm, I haven't done any real research on the Disc-pvp build of my 60
>> >priest but that bit of info you provide would explain how I survive so
>> >well even against lvl 69 rogues in WSG and AB. I can't imagine doing
>> >battlegrounds without these talents -- stunlock and death before it
>> >wears off is one of those things that makes you wonder why anyone plays
>> >this game and whether it's time to ditch it. Fortunately it doesn't
>> >happen to my priest anymore.
>>
>> Heh yeah, that was seriously painful, now my priest has 11k health and 350
>> res it only happens with more than one wellgeared player on me, so it's a
>> fair bit more tolerable! I still go down too fast when they focus me
>> though; once I'm done with the stuff I need to farm a respec is called for,
>> dropping some of my soloing talents and getting blessed resilience and
>> circle of healing... with those I'm expecting to have some pretty nice
>> survivability
>
>Well, to be completely honest, I doubt you'll see much of an
>improvement over discipline.

Well I'm not discipline, that tree looks horrible so I'm holy /disc
23/33/5, 5-man/soloing build with a couple of pvp talents. I have
absolutely zero intention of ever going discipline, the tree looks like no
fun at all at higher levels, while I just love holy.

>Holy has the benefit of vastly superior healing abilities though, so
>it's kind of a 50/50 deal for survivability, but discipline has the
>advantage of dealing more passive damage through reflective shield,
>and then there's the power infusion & pain suppression that can be
>applied on others... I prefer the discipline gameplay these days, as I
>find the spec to be more decisive in PVP, even if it has less healing
>throughput.

Each to their own, afraid I can't be bothered following the flavour of the
month spec unless I happen to like it... and I like holy too much
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 70)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:24:52 -0700 (PDT), "Mark (newsgroups)"
<marknewsgroups.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Apr 25, 3:58 pm, Catriona R <catrionarNOS....DeleteThis@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>> Well I'm not discipline, that tree looks horrible so I'm holy /disc
>> 23/33/5, 5-man/soloing build with a couple of pvp talents. I have
>> absolutely zero intention of ever going discipline, the tree looks like no
>> fun at all at higher levels, while I just love holy.
>
>Respecs are not too expensive, you could always try it out and find
>out for sure that you don't like it

I could, but why bother when I'm not interested in it? Far rather make a
spec I *am* interested in. I play to have fun...
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 70)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

> Well I'm not discipline, that tree looks horrible so I'm holy /disc
> 23/33/5, 5-man/soloing build with a couple of pvp talents. I have
> absolutely zero intention of ever going discipline, the tree looks like no
> fun at all at higher levels, while I just love holy.

Tbh, I wont play with a priest in arena any more unless they have a disc
build.

Played a few times with holy priests and they have all been 10% less
effective than just about any disc priest. Not that I'm playing with you or
anything, it's perfectly fine to spec the way you want to spec.

Doesn't matter how big your heals are if you can't get them off.

> Each to their own, afraid I can't be bothered following the flavour of the
> month spec unless I happen to like it... and I like holy too much

I would hardly suggest Disc is a FOTM spec for priests. It's been widely
regarded as *the* pvp healing spec for priests since as long as I can
remember.

Not trying to convince you to switch or anything, mostly just that last
comment irked me slightly

ave
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

> all been 10% less effective than

should read:

"all been 10% as effective than..."

sorry.

ave
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence...