Reality Shows and Superheros

Dennis Francis Hefferman wrote:
>> My point was that they all used to exude that sort of moral
>> superiority.
>
> Really. How many of them took to the streets as self-appointed defenders of
> Truth, Justice and the American Way? By simply doing what they do,
> superheores declare themselves better than other people.

But not all people.
--
-=[ The BlakGard ]=-
"Somewhere there's danger;
somewhere there's injustice,
and somewhere else the tea is getting cold!"
 >> Stay informed about: Reality Shows and Superheros 

Dennis Francis Heffernan <hefferman.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<pOCdnU8DWNdwsVvd4p2dnA.TakeThisOut@comcast.com>...
> Richard Brown wrote:
>
> > My point was that they all used to exude that sort of moral
> > superiority.
>
> Really. How many of them took to the streets as self-appointed defenders of
> Truth, Justice and the American Way?

Untill recently that was pretty much what anyone whe ran for office
did. True they didn't go out engaging in individual vigalanteism, but
they did "clean up their comunities," or very literaly "fight for
right" in a war or often both. Also cops do that every day and no one
thinks they have any moral superiority (yes I know cops have to go
through the academy and get hired to do the job, but it's the
indivudual officer who decides to persue that career on his own
initiative). To me the only diference between a cop and a superhero
is the superhero's figures their powers mean "we don' need no steenkin
bodges."

>By simply doing what they do,
> superheores declare themselves better than other people.
>

They may think they are better than other people, that doesn't mean
they will be perceived that way by the general public any more than
cops are. Remember thay the view of these characters you get from the
comics is a insiders view of their world, the average man on the
street doesn't know Batman has a strong ethical code and probably just
devoutly hopes that Gordon isn't a fool for trusting him.

> > Profesional atheletes, politicians and other celebreties
> > used to be held up as examples to young people, they aren't any more,
> > quite the oposite in fact.
>
> For the most part, they never asked to be.
>

They didn't have to ask the meer fact of them being in the public
spotlight makes them an example. If they weren't advertizers wouldn't
shell out the big bucks for endorcement deals.


> > If your game world is modled on the real
> > one then wouldn't the moral superiority of superheroes have eroded
> > right along with everyone else?
>
> No, because it can't. Superheroes without moral superiority are costumed
> vigilantes, and a Clear And Present Danger To The Community.
>

Actualy moral superiority doesn't matter, since it's a matter of
opinion. Any Superhero is a costumed vilaglantee untill/unless he is
A)deptutised by local law enforcement (oficialy or unoficialy) or
B)becomes a member of a superhero team that has an official
endorcement from the local/national government or UN. Batman gets
away with it because he's buddy buddy with Comisioner Gordon
(unoficialy deputised) and is a member of the Justice Leauge (a
government aproved group). Captain America get's away with it by
being a government agent and member of a aproved group. The X-men
aren't a government aproved group and despite having the moral high
ground are frequently considered public enemy #1.
Of course that also opens up a debate on the diference between what
the superhero thinks he's doing, what the police think he's doing, and
what the public thinks of him. There have been times when Spiderman
had the Bugle and it's readers after his head, while the police just
wanted to question him (he had done enough good that they were looking
the other way on his vigalanteism) and the old web head was just
trying to live up to the "great responsibility" that came with his
powers. OTOH in _The Dark Knight Returns_ had an old Batman coming
out of retirment to resume his crusade on crime absolutely sure of his
own righeousness, but the new police comisioner declared him public
enemy #1, and the people were divided over whether he was a hero or
villan. The Punisher is always sure of his own righeousness, but to
the police he's a murderer and to the public a psycho. The difering
points of view make it imposible to find a clear cut moral
superiority. The best most heroes can hope for is an oficial
endorcement that might get withdrawn at the next election and fewer
acusations of brutality than the police.

> > Actualy I would imagine
> > maintaining a secred ID while being in the public eye should be
> > virtualy impossible for any hero,
>
> You can remove the "virtually" in any universe with demonstratable psychic
> and/or magical powers.
>

Depends on how common those abilities are, and how reliable they are
percieved as being. If they are rare or the general public beleives
them to be unreliable secret ID's may be possible, untill the
paparatzi catch the hero with his mask off.

> > leaving secret ID's the province of
> > shadowy characters who shun the media spotlight and will as a
> > consiquence be labled criminal vigilantee's at best and suspected mob
> > enforcers at worst.
>
> You're making my point.
>

Really? Do Spiderman and Daredevil operate from any less of a moral
high groud because they have bad press coverage? Do the Avengers and
FF have any beter moral high ground than the X-men because they have
an oficial government endorcement? A government endorcement doesn't
give a public perception of being on the moral high ground, it dosen't
even give good press coverage, just ask any cop. Yet in the comics a
government endorcement is all that's required to go from being a
criminal vigalantee to being "one of the good guys." And no a hero
doesn't necesarily have to have a public perception of moral
superiority to get a government endorcement (at least in the comics)
both Spiderman and the Beast (from X-men) are reserve Avengers but
that doesn't help there public image in the least, it doesn't help
with the cops either unless they pull out the Avengers ID in which
case they can get grudging suppourt.

> > Maintaining a
> > moral superiority however I don't find believable. Of course if you
> > wish them to do so in your game world you can, just don't be surprised
> > when people don't buy it.
>
> Whether or not a super could live up to the image is problematic, of course,
> but I certainly think it would be expected of them.

An asumption that has IMO no basis in how public opinion and PR realy
work.
 >> Stay informed about: Reality Shows and Superheros 

Dennis Francis Heffernan <hefferman.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<pOCdnU8DWNdwsVvd4p2dnA.DeleteThis@comcast.com>...
> Richard Brown wrote:
>
> > My point was that they all used to exude that sort of moral
> > superiority.
>
> Really. How many of them took to the streets as self-appointed defenders of
> Truth, Justice and the American Way?

Untill recently that was pretty much what anyone whe ran for office
did. True they
didn't go out engaging in individual vigalanteism, but they did "clean
up their
comunities," or very literaly "fight for right" in a war or often
both. Also cops do that
every day and no one thinks they have any moral superiority (yes I
know cops have
to go through the academy and get hired to do the job, but it's the
indivudual officer
who decides to persue that career on his own initiative). To me the
only diference
between a cop and a superhero is the superhero's figures their powers
mean "we
don' need no steenkin bodges."

>By simply doing what they do,
> superheores declare themselves better than other people.
>

They may think they are better than other people, that doesn't mean
they will be
perceived that way by the general public any more than cops are.
Remember thay
the view of these characters you get from the comics is a insiders
view of their
world, the average man on the street doesn't know Batman has a strong
ethical code
and probably just devoutly hopes that Gordon isn't a fool for trusting
him.

> > Profesional atheletes, politicians and other celebreties
> > used to be held up as examples to young people, they aren't any more,
> > quite the oposite in fact.
>
> For the most part, they never asked to be.
>

They didn't have to ask the meer fact of them being in the public
spotlight makes
them an example. If they weren't advertizers wouldn't shell out the
big bucks for
endorcement deals.


> > If your game world is modled on the real
> > one then wouldn't the moral superiority of superheroes have eroded
> > right along with everyone else?
>
> No, because it can't. Superheroes without moral superiority are costumed
> vigilantes, and a Clear And Present Danger To The Community.
>

Actualy moral superiority doesn't matter, since it's a matter of
opinion. Any
Superhero is a costumed vilaglantee untill/unless he is A)deptutised
by local law
enforcement (oficialy or unoficialy) or B)becomes a member of a
superhero team
that has an official endorcement from the local/national government or
UN. Batman
gets away with it because he's buddy buddy with Comisioner Gordon
(unoficialy
deputised) and is a member of the Justice Leauge (a government aproved
group).
Captain America get's away with it by being a government agent and
member of a
aproved group. The X-men aren't a government aproved group and
despite having
the moral high ground are frequently considered public enemy #1.
Of course that also opens up a debate on the diference between what
the superhero
thinks he's doing, what the police think he's doing, and what the
public thinks of him.
There have been times when Spiderman had the Bugle and it's readers
after his
head, while the police just wanted to question him (he had done enough
good that
they were looking the other way on his vigalanteism) and the old web
head was just
trying to live up to the "great responsibility" that came with his
powers. OTOH in
_The Dark Knight Returns_ had an old Batman coming out of retirment to
resume
his crusade on crime absolutely sure of his own righeousness, but the
new police
comisioner declared him public enemy #1, and the people were divided
over
whether he was a hero or villan. The Punisher is always sure of his
own
righeousness, but to the police he's a murderer and to the public a
psycho. The
difering points of view make it imposible to find a clear cut moral
superiority. The
best most heroes can hope for is an oficial endorcement that might get
withdrawn at
the next election and fewer acusations of brutality than the police.

> > Actualy I would imagine
> > maintaining a secred ID while being in the public eye should be
> > virtualy impossible for any hero,
>
> You can remove the "virtually" in any universe with demonstratable psychic
> and/or magical powers.
>

Depends on how common those abilities are, and how reliable they are
percieved as
being. If they are rare or the general public beleives them to be
unreliable secret
ID's may be possible, untill the paparatzi catch the hero with his
mask off.

> > leaving secret ID's the province of
> > shadowy characters who shun the media spotlight and will as a
> > consiquence be labled criminal vigilantee's at best and suspected mob
> > enforcers at worst.
>
> You're making my point.
>

Really? Do Spiderman and Daredevil operate from any less of a moral
high groud
because they have bad press coverage? Do the Avengers and FF have any
beter
moral high ground than the X-men because they have an oficial
government
endorcement? A government endorcement doesn't give a public
perception of being
on the moral high ground, it dosen't even give good press coverage,
just ask any
cop. Yet in the comics a government endorcement is all that's
required to go from
being a criminal vigalantee to being "one of the good guys." And no a
hero doesn't
necesarily have to have a public perception of moral superiority to
get a government
endorcement (at least in the comics) both Spiderman and the Beast
(from X-men)
are reserve Avengers but that doesn't help there public image in the
least, it doesn't
help with the cops either unless they pull out the Avengers ID in
which case they can
get grudging suppourt.

> > Maintaining a
> > moral superiority however I don't find believable. Of course if you
> > wish them to do so in your game world you can, just don't be surprised
> > when people don't buy it.
>
> Whether or not a super could live up to the image is problematic, of course,
> but I certainly think it would be expected of them.

An asumption that has IMO no basis in how public opinion and PR realy
work.
 >> Stay informed about: Reality Shows and Superheros 

Dennis Francis Heffernan <hefferman RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<pOCdnU8DWNdwsVvd4p2dnA RemoveThis @comcast.com>...
> Richard Brown wrote:
>
> > My point was that they all used to exude that sort of moral
> > superiority.
>
> Really. How many of them took to the streets as self-appointed defenders of
> Truth, Justice and the American Way?

Until recently that was pretty much what anyone who ran for office
did. True they
didn't go out engaging in individual vigilantism, but they did "clean
up their
communities," or very literally "fight for right" in a war or often
both. Also cops do
that every day and no one thinks they have any moral superiority (yes
I know cops
have to go through the academy and get hired to do the job, but it's
the individual
officer who decides to pursue that career on his own initiative). To
me the only
difference between a cop and a super hero is the super hero's figures
their powers
mean "we don' need no steenkin bodges."

>By simply doing what they do,
> superheores declare themselves better than other people.
>

They may think they are better than other people, that doesn't mean
they will be
perceived that way by the general public any more than cops are.
Remember that
the view of these characters you get from the comics is a insiders
view of their
world, the average man on the street doesn't know Batman has a strong
ethical code
and probably just devoutly hopes that Gordon isn't a fool for trusting
him.

> > Profesional atheletes, politicians and other celebreties
> > used to be held up as examples to young people, they aren't any more,
> > quite the oposite in fact.
>
> For the most part, they never asked to be.
>

They didn't have to ask the mere fact of them being in the public
spotlight makes
them an example. If they weren't advertisers wouldn't shell out the
big bucks for
endorsement deals.


> > If your game world is modled on the real
> > one then wouldn't the moral superiority of superheroes have eroded
> > right along with everyone else?
>
> No, because it can't. Superheroes without moral superiority are costumed
> vigilantes, and a Clear And Present Danger To The Community.
>

Actually moral superiority doesn't matter, since it's a matter of
opinion. Any
Super hero is a costumed vigilantee untill/unless he is A)deptutised
by local law
enforcement (officially or unofficially) or B)becomes a member of a
super hero team
that has an official endorsement from the local/national government or
UN. Batman
gets away with it because he's buddy buddy with Commissioner Gordon
(unofficially
deputized) and is a member of the Justice League (a government
approved group).
Captain America gets away with it by being a government agent and
member of a
approved group. The X-men aren't a government approved group and
despite
having the moral high ground are frequently considered public enemy
#1.
Of course that also opens up a debate on the difference between what
the super
hero thinks he's doing, what the police think he's doing, and what the
public thinks of
him. There have been times when Spiderman had the Bugle and it's
readers after his
head, while the police just wanted to question him (he had done enough
good that
they were looking the other way on his vigilantism) and the old web
head was just
trying to live up to the "great responsibility" that came with his
powers. OTOH in
_The Dark Knight Returns_ had an old Batman coming out of retirement
to resume
his crusade on crime absolutely sure of his own righteousness, but the
new police
commissioner declared him public enemy #1, and the people were divided
over
whether he was a hero or villain. The Punisher is always sure of his
own
righteousness, but to the police he's a murderer and to the public a
psycho. The
differing points of view make it impossible to find a clear cut moral
superiority. The
best most heroes can hope for is an official endorsement that might
get withdrawn at
the next election and fewer accusations of brutality than the police.

> > Actualy I would imagine
> > maintaining a secred ID while being in the public eye should be
> > virtualy impossible for any hero,
>
> You can remove the "virtually" in any universe with demonstratable psychic
> and/or magical powers.
>

Depends on how common those abilities are, and how reliable they are
perceived as
being. If they are rare or the general public believes them to be
unreliable secret
ID's may be possible, until the paparazzi catch the hero with his mask
off.

> > leaving secret ID's the province of
> > shadowy characters who shun the media spotlight and will as a
> > consiquence be labled criminal vigilantee's at best and suspected mob
> > enforcers at worst.
>
> You're making my point.
>

Really? Do Spiderman and Daredevil operate from any less of a moral
high ground
because they have bad press coverage? Do the Avengers and FF have any
better
moral high ground than the X-men because they have an official
government
endorsement? A government endorsement doesn't give a public
perception of being
on the moral high ground, it doesn't even give good press coverage,
just ask any
cop. Yet in the comics a government endorsement is all that's
required to go from
being a criminal vigilante to being "one of the good guys." And no a
hero doesn't
necessarily have to have a public perception of moral superiority to
get a government
endorsement (at least in the comics) both Spiderman and the Beast
(from X-men)
are reserve Avengers but that doesn't help there public image in the
least, it doesn't
help with the cops either unless they pull out the Avengers ID in
which case they can
get grudging support.

> > Maintaining a
> > moral superiority however I don't find believable. Of course if you
> > wish them to do so in your game world you can, just don't be surprised
> > when people don't buy it.
>
> Whether or not a super could live up to the image is problematic, of course,
> but I certainly think it would be expected of them.

An assumption that has IMO no basis in how public opinion and PR
really work.
 >> Stay informed about: Reality Shows and Superheros 

rgormannospam.RemoveThis@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) wrote in message news:<40c61a6f.49106707.RemoveThis@news.telusplanet.net>...
> On 8 Jun 2004 12:07:31 -0700, rbrown.RemoveThis@myriad.com (Richard Brown) wrote:
>
> >celebrities. The modern press doesn't alow anyone to exude moral
> >superiority, draging people through the mud brings better ratings.
>
> At the same time however, Brittany Spears' "sexy virgin" image
> was a real asset to her career and said career took a hit once
> she was officially unvirgined. She had to reinvent herself into
> Madonna Jr to keep going and she seems less comfortable in
> that public role.
>

Didn't seem like she took that big a hit to me, but then I never
folowed her career too closely. Also how much of the popularity hit
had to do with the nature of her immage change and how much was due to
the simple fact that her immage changed? Either way no longer being
seen as a virgin certainly hasn't ruined her reputation or popularity.

> >The only escape a superhero would have from this would be in a secred
> >identity, and someone with a secret ID wouldn't be going on the sort
> >of reality show that started this discussion. Actualy I would imagine
> >maintaining a secred ID while being in the public eye should be
> >virtualy impossible for any hero,
>
> Any hero who doesn't possess a physical transformation power.
> It is quite believeable that Willy Wallis, a ten year old with the
> power to turn into a mountain of adult muscle named
> Captain Crusader will remain undetected in his secret I.D. by
> anything short of telepathy. And since there will be a flood
> of self-proclaimed psychics selling imaginary information to
> tabloids, that won't even be the most plausible tip to the media.

A phisical transformation only works till someone with a video camera
catches you in the act. True such a video could be faked with current
computer tech, but the simple release of the video will generate
enough hounding of the secret ID from the press that eventualy the
truth will come out. This is setting aside the fact that the super
crooks won't wait for proof that the video is acurate, the'll just go
after the secret ID because they wouldn't want to miss the chance to
get the hero while he's vulnerable, and they don't care if they get
some inocent kid by mistake.
 >> Stay informed about: Reality Shows and Superheros 

On 9 Jun 2004 13:49:57 -0700, rbrown.DeleteThis@myriad.com (Richard Brown) wrote:


>> Any hero who doesn't possess a physical transformation power.
>> It is quite believeable that Willy Wallis, a ten year old with the
>> power to turn into a mountain of adult muscle named
>> Captain Crusader will remain undetected in his secret I.D. by
>> anything short of telepathy. And since there will be a flood
>> of self-proclaimed psychics selling imaginary information to
>> tabloids, that won't even be the most plausible tip to the media.
>
>A phisical transformation only works till someone with a video camera
>catches you in the act.

Well obviously you aren't going to do in front of an audience.
 >> Stay informed about: Reality Shows and Superheros 

On 9 Jun 2004 13:21:07 -0700, rbrown.DeleteThis@myriad.com (Richard Brown) wrote:

>Actualy moral superiority doesn't matter, since it's a matter of
>opinion. Any Superhero is a costumed vilaglantee untill/unless he is
>A)deptutised by local law enforcement (oficialy or unoficialy) or
>B)becomes a member of a superhero team that has an official
>endorcement from the local/national government or UN. Batman gets
>away with it because he's buddy buddy with Comisioner Gordon
>(unoficialy deputised) and is a member of the Justice Leauge (a
>government aproved group). Captain America get's away with it by
>being a government agent and member of a aproved group. The X-men
>aren't a government aproved group and despite having the moral high
>ground are frequently considered public enemy #1.

This sounds good on paper, but in practice there are numerous heroes
both at DC and Marvel who are not officially sanctioned but are never
treated as vigilantes. This analysis in fact ignores the fact that in
a world where superheroes have existed for decades, legal doctorine
will likely have come to some sort of accomodation with that fact.
 >> Stay informed about: Reality Shows and Superheros 

Richard Brown wrote:

> Untill recently that was pretty much what anyone whe ran for office
> did. True they didn't go out engaging in individual vigalanteism, but
> they did "clean up their comunities," or very literaly "fight for
> right" in a war or often both.

Riiiight, that's what those Tammany Hall crusaders were all about.

> Also cops do that every day and no one
> thinks they have any moral superiority (yes I know cops have to go
> through the academy and get hired to do the job, but it's the
> indivudual officer who decides to persue that career on his own
> initiative). To me the only diference between a cop and a superhero
> is the superhero's figures their powers mean "we don' need no steenkin
> bodges."

Police are part of the system. They work as part of an organization. They
answer to superiors and to a civilian government. They are held to strict
rules regarding their activities, the type of investigations they can perform
and how and when they can use force. They are monitored for abuses of their
power.

None of these things are true of your average superhero.

> They may think they are better than other people, that doesn't mean
> they will be perceived that way by the general public any more than
> cops are. Remember thay the view of these characters you get from the
> comics is a insiders view of their world, the average man on the
> street doesn't know Batman has a strong ethical code and probably just
> devoutly hopes that Gordon isn't a fool for trusting him.

Again, you are making my point for me. Superheroes that haven't been
idolized aren't superheroes -- they're costumed vigilantes.

> Actualy moral superiority doesn't matter, since it's a matter of
> opinion. Any Superhero is a costumed vilaglantee untill/unless he is
> A)deptutised by local law enforcement (oficialy or unoficialy) or
> B)becomes a member of a superhero team that has an official
> endorcement from the local/national government or UN. Batman gets
> away with it because he's buddy buddy with Comisioner Gordon
> (unoficialy deputised) and is a member of the Justice Leauge (a
> government aproved group). Captain America get's away with it by
> being a government agent and member of a aproved group. The X-men
> aren't a government aproved group and despite having the moral high
> ground are frequently considered public enemy #1.

Wayne Shaw has already adequately shot this to pieces.

> Depends on how common those abilities are, and how reliable they are
> percieved as being.

If they exist, the criminals ("villains") will eventually get their hands on
them, and it's all downhill from there.

With or without magic/psi, secret ID's are a part of the genre that only work
due to willing suspension of disbelief. When I GM supers, I tell my players
straight up that if they want to maintain a secret ID they can, but they
should be ready to have it broken by anyone who makes a serious effort to do so.

> Really? Do Spiderman and Daredevil operate from any less of a moral
> high groud because they have bad press coverage?

You're conflating necessary conditions with sufficient conditions.

> An asumption that has IMO no basis in how public opinion and PR realy
> work.

I'm sorry you can't see the forest for the trees. The scenarios you describe
are plausible. The problem is they are not *logically necessary*, and you are
arguing that they are. Geoff Depew's scenario was equally plausible. GMs are
not required to possess a knockdown defense of the state of affairs they
choose to portray.

--
Dennis F. Heffernan CoH: Venture (Virtue) hefferman.TakeThisOut@comcast.net
#include <disclaim.h> MS Messenger: Venture

"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
when Victoria reigned!" -- T.S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
 >> Stay informed about: Reality Shows and Superheros 

Dennis Francis Hefferman wrote:
> With or without magic/psi, secret ID's are a part of the genre that only work
> due to willing suspension of disbelief. When I GM supers, I tell my players
> straight up that if they want to maintain a secret ID they can, but they
> should be ready to have it broken by anyone who makes a serious effort to do
> so.

I would think that would depend on too many different factors to make a general
statement like that.
--
-=[ The BlakGard ]=-
"Somewhere there's danger;
somewhere there's injustice,
and somewhere else the tea is getting cold!"
 >> Stay informed about: Reality Shows and Superheros 

Dennis Francis Heffernan wrote:
>
> When I GM supers, I tell my players straight up that if
> they want to maintain a secret ID they can, but they
> should be ready to have it broken by anyone who makes
> a serious effort to do so.

I suppose if the players are looking for a "grim", "gritty", "realistic"
superhero game, that could be appropriate. But I think you might be
happier playing in some other genre: the conventions of the superhero
genre do not appear to match your preferences.

Personally, if you told me that, I'd probably pass on your game. I get
to play "the nail that sticks up gets hammered" every day: I look for
something a bit lighter when I'm role-playing.

bblackmoor
2004-06-09
 >> Stay informed about: Reality Shows and Superheros 

rgormannospam RemoveThis @telusplanet.net (David Johnston) wrote in message news:<40c7760f.9555580 RemoveThis @news.telusplanet.net>...
> On 9 Jun 2004 13:49:57 -0700, rbrown RemoveThis @myriad.com (Richard Brown) wrote:
>
>
> >> Any hero who doesn't possess a physical transformation power.
> >> It is quite believeable that Willy Wallis, a ten year old with the
> >> power to turn into a mountain of adult muscle named
> >> Captain Crusader will remain undetected in his secret I.D. by
> >> anything short of telepathy. And since there will be a flood
> >> of self-proclaimed psychics selling imaginary information to
> >> tabloids, that won't even be the most plausible tip to the media.
> >
> >A phisical transformation only works till someone with a video camera
> >catches you in the act.
>
> Well obviously you aren't going to do in front of an audience.

Most super hero settings make it easyer to avoid telepaths than it is
to avoid video cameras in the real world. In a big city you can
hardly go anywhere without at least one person with a camera around.
Then there are all the store and parking lot security cameras, busness
owners don't want to leave any area of their property without
survalance lest someone be asaulted on it and the owner sued for
inadiquite security. Then there's all those handy dandy little mini
spy cams available. I'm not saying avoiding cameras is impossible,
just very nearly so.
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Brandon Blackmoor wrote:

> I suppose if the players are looking for a "grim", "gritty", "realistic"
> superhero game, that could be appropriate. But I think you might be
> happier playing in some other genre: the conventions of the superhero
> genre do not appear to match your preferences.

I try not to use "genre conventions" at all, regardless of what I'm running.

> Personally, if you told me that, I'd probably pass on your game. I get
> to play "the nail that sticks up gets hammered" every day: I look for
> something a bit lighter when I'm role-playing.

I think you're extrapolating way too much from one point of data.

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"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
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The Black Guardian wrote:


>>With or without magic/psi, secret ID's are a part of the genre that only work
>>due to willing suspension of disbelief. When I GM supers, I tell my players
>>straight up that if they want to maintain a secret ID they can, but they
>>should be ready to have it broken by anyone who makes a serious effort to do
>>so.
>
>
> I would think that would depend on too many different factors to make a general
> statement like that.

No, not really. Any number of comics writers have pointed out the same
thing. (Byrne did a real number on the idea writing himself as a character in
Star Brand.) It's just too difficult to maintain two entirely separate lives,
changing every facet of your physical appearance, and watching every single
word you say in both lives, even when you are tired and angry. (Which, let's
face it, you're going to be a lot.) Throw in people with serious
investigative capability (government, supervillains) and there's really no
chance you're going to pull it off.

There are superpowers that can make it a little easier (the aforementioned
physical transformations, etc.), and ones that make it a lot harder (most
psi/magic, "x-ray vision", etc.)

Look at how many people in real life manage to maintain a second life as a
long-term proposition successfully. The number of successful (e.g.) spies and
cheating husbands is dwarfed by the number of failures, and they don't have
half the problems a superhero would have.

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"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
when Victoria reigned!" -- T.S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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