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External
Since: Jun 19, 2007
Posts: 45
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:26 pm
Post subject: Real-time Strategy games
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>games>strategic (more info?)
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I've almost always avoided anything with 'real-time' in the title
because I'm pretty slow, but one or two games I was thinking about
putting on my Christmas list say they're in this category.
I'm having a bit of trouble picturing what an RTS would be like. Can
anyone give a simple summary? I've played several 4x TBS games,
primarily Civ, so you can assume I know about that kind of strategy game. |
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External
Since: Dec 17, 2007
Posts: 182
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Real-time Strategy games [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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David Alex Lamb <dalamb DeleteThis @cs.queensu.ca> wrote:
>I'm having a bit of trouble picturing what an RTS would be like. Can
>anyone give a simple summary? I've played several 4x TBS games,
>primarily Civ, so you can assume I know about that kind of strategy game.
The two games that started the RTS genre were Dune 2 and Warcraft,
although it wasn't these two game's sequels Command and Conquer and
Warcraft II did things really get going. The basic play of these
games is have your "peons" collect resources that you can spend on
buildings that you can use to build units (that also cost resources)
to fight the enemy. You control all of this from an overhead view.
I find that they're not too twitchy if your just playing the storyline
campaigns against the computer.
If you want to give this kind of a game a try I suggest an older title
like Starcraft or Age of Empires II. They should be cheaper and simpler
than newer games without being so old that they're missing important
UI features. If you find you don't like these games, there are some
RTS games like Star Wars: Empire at War and Kohan that do things a
bit differently. There are also games like Europa Universalis that so
different that they can't be considered RTS's despite the fact technically
being both real-time and strategic.
Ross Ridge
--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge DeleteThis @csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/
db // |
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External
Since: Jun 19, 2007
Posts: 45
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Real-time Strategy games [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ross Ridge wrote:
> If you want to give this kind of a game a try I suggest an older title
> like Starcraft or Age of Empires II.
Gasp! I (unknowingly) lied; I actually played a bit of Starcraft some
years ago -- but bogged down in some big battle against an alien base
that just had too much going on for me to cope. It wasn't too far into
the game, either.
AoE was on the list of games I was considering putting on my Christmas
list, so thanks for the recommendation.
Another that looked interesting was Spellforce Universe; anyone have an
opinion? I read a review that seemed to mean the RTS aspects were
fairly light and it was mostly RPG. >> Stay informed about: Real-time Strategy games |
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External
Since: Jun 01, 2007
Posts: 84
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Real-time Strategy games [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Nov 9, 4:59 pm, David Alex Lamb <dal....TakeThisOut@cs.queensu.ca> wrote:
> Another that looked interesting was Spellforce Universe; anyone have an
> opinion? I read a review that seemed to mean the RTS aspects were
> fairly light and it was mostly RPG.
Other way around. Spellforce has a veneer (very thin) of RPG on top
of a basic RTS strategy game. I enjoyed Spellforce 1 but not it's
sequels. >> Stay informed about: Real-time Strategy games |
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External
Since: Sep 01, 2007
Posts: 26
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Real-time Strategy games [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Nov 9, 2:59 pm, David Alex Lamb <dal....RemoveThis@cs.queensu.ca> wrote:
> Ross Ridge wrote:
> > If you want to give this kind of a game a try I suggest an older title
> > like Starcraft or Age of Empires II.
>
> Gasp! I (unknowingly) lied; I actually played a bit of Starcraft some
> years ago -- but bogged down in some big battle against an alien base
> that just had too much going on for me to cope. It wasn't too far into
> the game, either.
You might find real-time tactics more enjoyable than RTS. Check out
games like Rome: Total War. For more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_tactics
> Another that looked interesting was Spellforce Universe; anyone have an
> opinion? I read a review that seemed to mean the RTS aspects were
> fairly light and it was mostly RPG.
That depends on what part of the game bothers you more: the tiny
armies or the mindless point-and-click battles. As you can tell, I
recommend against the game, but don't let that stop you from trying
out a demo or something to judge for yourself. If RPG elements
interest you, I would much more highly recommend Warcraft 3 or
Dragonshard. >> Stay informed about: Real-time Strategy games |
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External
Since: Oct 15, 2007
Posts: 91
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:02 am
Post subject: Re: Real-time Strategy games [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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David Alex Lamb wrote:
> I've almost always avoided anything with 'real-time' in the title
> because I'm pretty slow, but one or two games I was thinking about
> putting on my Christmas list say they're in this category.
>
> I'm having a bit of trouble picturing what an RTS would be like. Can
> anyone give a simple summary? I've played several 4x TBS games,
> primarily Civ, so you can assume I know about that kind of strategy game.
I saw someone say this recently and I agree, "They are neither realtime
nor strategy". They are clickfest action games. >> Stay informed about: Real-time Strategy games |
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External
Since: Dec 17, 2007
Posts: 182
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:33 am
Post subject: Re: Real-time Strategy games [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ross Ridge wrote:
> If you want to give this kind of a game a try I suggest an older title
> like Starcraft or Age of Empires II.
David Alex Lamb <dalamb.DeleteThis@cs.queensu.ca> wrote:
>Gasp! I (unknowingly) lied; I actually played a bit of Starcraft some
>years ago -- but bogged down in some big battle against an alien base
>that just had too much going on for me to cope. It wasn't too far into
>the game, either.
I figured you probably had played something in the genre. Starcraft is
typical of RTSs so should know what to expect from other games.
>AoE was on the list of games I was considering putting on my Christmas
>list, so thanks for the recommendation.
The original Age of Empires is probably a good choice for beginners,
I remember a fair bit of hand holding in the early missions. I don't
know if you'll be able to find it in stores anymore however.
Ross Ridge
--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge.DeleteThis@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/
db // >> Stay informed about: Real-time Strategy games |
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External
Since: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 43
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:02 am
Post subject: Re: Real-time Strategy games [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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A small correction...
I believe Command HQ actually was much, much earlier than Dune or Warcraft
as the first RTS game. If Command HQ was not the first it was very early
(1990 I think?)
<SNIP>.
>
> The two games that started the RTS genre were Dune 2 and Warcraft,
> although it wasn't these two game's sequels Command and Conquer and
> Warcraft II did things really get going.
<snip> >> Stay informed about: Real-time Strategy games |
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External
Since: Dec 17, 2007
Posts: 182
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Real-time Strategy games [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ross Ridge writes:
> The two games that started the RTS genre were Dune 2 and Warcraft,
> although it wasn't these two game's sequels Command and Conquer and
> Warcraft II did things really get going.
Bartow W. Riggs <briggs.DeleteThis@surewest.net> wrote:
>I believe Command HQ actually was much, much earlier than Dune or Warcraft
>as the first RTS game. If Command HQ was not the first it was very early
>(1990 I think?)
Command HQ didn't start the RTS genre. The RTS genre is defined by games
like Dune 2, Warcraft and Command and Conquer. The genre not defined
by it's name, so a game with strategic combat and real-time game play
isn't necessarily an RTS.
Ross Ridge
--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge.DeleteThis@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/
db // >> Stay informed about: Real-time Strategy games |
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External
Since: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 43
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Real-time Strategy games [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I guess you and I just have to agree to disagree.
It was STRATEGIC and REAL-TIME (at least to the extent any RTS is "real
time") and even included production as I remember (not sure) and by any
reasonable definition, it was an RTS game.
"Ross Ridge" <rridge.DeleteThis@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote in message
news:fha3th$aem$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca...
> Ross Ridge writes:
>> The two games that started the RTS genre were Dune 2 and Warcraft,
>> although it wasn't these two game's sequels Command and Conquer and
>> Warcraft II did things really get going.
>
> Bartow W. Riggs <briggs.DeleteThis@surewest.net> wrote:
>>I believe Command HQ actually was much, much earlier than Dune or Warcraft
>>as the first RTS game. If Command HQ was not the first it was very early
>>(1990 I think?)
>
> Command HQ didn't start the RTS genre. The RTS genre is defined by games
> like Dune 2, Warcraft and Command and Conquer. The genre not defined
> by it's name, so a game with strategic combat and real-time game play
> isn't necessarily an RTS.
>
> Ross Ridge
>
> --
> l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
> [oo][oo] rridge.DeleteThis@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
> -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/
> db // >> Stay informed about: Real-time Strategy games |
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Since: Dec 17, 2007
Posts: 182
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Real-time Strategy games [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Bartow W. Riggs <briggs.DeleteThis@surewest.net> wrote:
>I guess you and I just have to agree to disagree.
That only works if you stop arguing.
>It was STRATEGIC and REAL-TIME (at least to the extent any RTS is "real
>time") and even included production as I remember (not sure) and by any
>reasonable definition, it was an RTS game.
That definition leads to games like Europa Universalis, Railroad Tycoon,
and the whole genre of city builder games (eg. Ceaser) being labeled as
RTS games, which is absurd. You're making the common mistake of trying
to define a genre by it's name, instead of by the games that both created
the genre and gave the genre it's name in the first place.
Even if your definition was correct, you'd still be wrong. Plenty of
"real-time" and "strategic" games came out before Command HQ. However,
like Command HQ, none of them were called RTS games when they were
released and they had little or no influence on the games that actually
defined the genre.
Ross Ridge
--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge.DeleteThis@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/
db // >> Stay informed about: Real-time Strategy games |
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External
Since: Nov 01, 2004
Posts: 2593
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Real-time Strategy games [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ross Ridge <rridge.TakeThisOut@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> I figured you probably had played something in the genre. Starcraft is
> typical of RTSs so should know what to expect from other games.
Still one of the best, too in my opinion.
If things get too crazy and wild for you, you can always set the speed
slider in the options menu to super-duper-slow. Gives you more time to
issue commands to your units.
I never did do very well with armies that had a lot of spells or special
abilities you had to trigger manually. Just too much other stuff going on
to micro-manage those units in that manner.
--
It's not broken. It's...advanced. >> Stay informed about: Real-time Strategy games |
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Since: Nov 01, 2004
Posts: 2593
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Real-time Strategy games [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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David Alex Lamb <dalamb DeleteThis @cs.queensu.ca> wrote:
> I've almost always avoided anything with 'real-time' in the title
> because I'm pretty slow, but one or two games I was thinking about
> putting on my Christmas list say they're in this category.
I guarantee it's not in stores anymore, but it sounds like you might have
liked the old title, M.A.X. This was a unique game in that you could play
it either as an RTS, OR, a turn-based game.
It still had the same basic RTS gameplay - explore, find & harvest resources
to build up a base and develop an army to smash the enemy who's doing the
same thing elsewhere on the map. But with the turn-based option, you can
now sit and plan out your strategies, rather than just clicking like crazy
and hoping you get lucky  The only problem was this introduced a bit
more micro-management into the game (obviously) and also caused you to
just hit 'next turn' several times in a row while you waited for something
to get built.
There was a M.A.X.2, but it removed the turn-based option, and was also
ridiculously buggy.
Hm. I wonder if this will work on under XP...
I really wish someone would make another turn-based strategy game like
this. From the reviews of Supreme Commander, it sounds like this would
have benefitted from a turn-based mode, with its complex units and whatnot.
--
It's not broken. It's...advanced. >> Stay informed about: Real-time Strategy games |
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External
Since: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 94
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Real-time Strategy games [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Nov 13, 5:44 pm, Doug Jacobs <djac....DeleteThis@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
> David Alex Lamb <dal....DeleteThis@cs.queensu.ca> wrote:
>
> > I've almost always avoided anything with 'real-time' in the title
> > because I'm pretty slow, but one or two games I was thinking about
> > putting on my Christmas list say they're in this category.
>
> I guarantee it's not in stores anymore, but it sounds like you might have
> liked the old title, M.A.X. This was a unique game in that you could play
> it either as an RTS, OR, a turn-based game.
>
> It still had the same basic RTS gameplay - explore, find & harvest resources
> to build up a base and develop an army to smash the enemy who's doing the
> same thing elsewhere on the map. But with the turn-based option, you can
> now sit and plan out your strategies, rather than just clicking like crazy
> and hoping you get lucky The only problem was this introduced a bit
> more micro-management into the game (obviously) and also caused you to
> just hit 'next turn' several times in a row while you waited for something
> to get built.
>
> There was a M.A.X.2, but it removed the turn-based option, and was also
> ridiculously buggy.
>
> Hm. I wonder if this will work on under XP...
I wish they actually had fixed M.A.X. Building the bases and such was
quite fun and the campaign was good. Unfortunately the game always
died when the turn count got up a bit above 100 for some reason. >> Stay informed about: Real-time Strategy games |
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Since: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 94
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Real-time Strategy games [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Nov 14, 8:29 pm, WDS <B... DeleteThis @seurer.net> wrote:
> On Nov 13, 5:44 pm, Doug Jacobs <djac... DeleteThis @shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > David Alex Lamb <dal... DeleteThis @cs.queensu.ca> wrote:
>
> > > I've almost always avoided anything with 'real-time' in the title
> > > because I'm pretty slow, but one or two games I was thinking about
> > > putting on my Christmas list say they're in this category.
>
> > I guarantee it's not in stores anymore, but it sounds like you might have
> > liked the old title, M.A.X. This was a unique game in that you could play
> > it either as an RTS, OR, a turn-based game.
>
> > It still had the same basic RTS gameplay - explore, find & harvest resources
> > to build up a base and develop an army to smash the enemy who's doing the
> > same thing elsewhere on the map. But with the turn-based option, you can
> > now sit and plan out your strategies, rather than just clicking like crazy
> > and hoping you get lucky The only problem was this introduced a bit
> > more micro-management into the game (obviously) and also caused you to
> > just hit 'next turn' several times in a row while you waited for something
> > to get built.
>
> > There was a M.A.X.2, but it removed the turn-based option, and was also
> > ridiculously buggy.
>
> > Hm. I wonder if this will work on under XP...
>
> I wish they actually had fixed M.A.X. Building the bases and such was
> quite fun and the campaign was good. Unfortunately the game always
> died when the turn count got up a bit above 100 for some reason.
BTW, I checked and there are lots of copies of M.A.X. on sale on EBay. >> Stay informed about: Real-time Strategy games |
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