Rank

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 22:12:56 -0800 (PST), "C. Woolard"
<rhymeswithsatan.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Feb 6, 5:35 pm, Brian McDonald <Brian_knowspam.McDon....TakeThisOut@shaw.ca>
>wrote:
>> On 27 Dec 2007 10:26:35 GMT, mcv <mcv....TakeThisOut@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>
>>  I get the impression that the office of
>>
>> >president of the US gets a lot more respect in the US than some
>> >monarchs in other countries.
>>
>> the americans wrap both their head of state and their political leader
>> into the same person which is was and always will be a terrible idea.
>> the characteristics needed to reach such a political office mean he's
>> a conniving weasel who'd sell his mother into a barbary brothel pretty
>> much.  pols are low creatures indeed and the higher the office the
>> lower the character seems to sink getting there.
>
>So how does seperating the offices of President and Prime Minister, or
>having a hereditary but semi-ceremonial head of state change this?

you have the ceremonial head of state who gets to cut ribbons, go to
state funerals etc whose primary job is to symbolically fire the
president who actually runs the country.

the bennies of this are that the president does not waste his valuable
time on ceremonial twaddle or at least not much of it.

the rest of us get to treat him as the conniving sob politician that
he is without being disrespectful of one's country.

go to australia, canada or britain for instance and you'll find their
attitude toward their prime minister is decidedly different and imho
much healthier than the american attitude toward their president is.

personally i prefer a monarch rather than an elected guy as that just
brings politics into again albeit at a lower intensity.
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On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:37:32 -0500, David Alex Lamb
<dalamb.TakeThisOut@cs.queensu.ca> wrote:

>Tim Little wrote:
>> On 2008-02-11, C. Woolard <rhymeswithsatan.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Power does not necessarily corrupt; it's just that the corrupt are
>>> more inclined to seek power.
>
>Personally I think Lord Acton meant "unaccountable power corrupts"
>especially given the "absolute power corrupts absolutely" bit that
>followed. If you've got reasonable way to call someone to task, they'd
>hesitate before going too far. IIRC the original "tyrannos" was elected
>by a Greek city state to rule for a few months during a big crisis (like
>being invaded by Sparta?). After that time he had to step down and act
>like an ordinary citizen, without all those guards etc. to protect him.
> I doubt it worked all that well, but I suspect it worked better than
>the more cynical of us might think.

the more cynical of us think that in those days dishonourable men
tended to wind up impaled with something sharpish in due course. today
of course dishonourable men are the norm it seems probably due to the
modern treatment of those who impale such men with sharpish items.
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On Feb 19, 5:18 pm, Brian McDonald <Brian_knowspam.McDon....DeleteThis@shaw.ca>
wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:37:32 -0500, David Alex Lamb
> >Personally I think Lord Acton meant "unaccountable power corrupts"
> >especially given the "absolute power corrupts absolutely" bit that
> >followed. If you've got reasonable way to call someone to task, they'd
> >hesitate before going too far. IIRC the original "tyrannos" was elected
> >by a Greek city state to rule for a few months during a big crisis (like
> >being invaded by Sparta?). After that time he had to step down and act
> >like an ordinary citizen, without all those guards etc. to protect him.
> > I doubt it worked all that well, but I suspect it worked better than
> >the more cynical of us might think.
>
> the more cynical of us think that in those days dishonourable men
> tended to wind up impaled with something sharpish in due course. today
> of course dishonourable men are the norm it seems probably due to the
> modern treatment of those who impale such men with sharpish items.

Naah, you're idealistic, not cynical.

The more cynical would say that the world has always been largely the
same, and that dishonourable men have always been the norm, the same
back then as today.

-Max
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On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:37:32 -0500, David Alex Lamb
<dalamb.TakeThisOut@cs.queensu.ca> wrote:
>Personally I think Lord Acton meant "unaccountable power corrupts"
>especially given the "absolute power corrupts absolutely" bit that
>followed.

Check the actual quote: it's "Power *tends* to corrupt and absolute
power corrupts absolutely." Which sounds right to me; you *can* find
honourable people in positions of power, though they are subject to
temptation, but people with absolute power are pretty much
automatically dubious.
--
Phil Masters
* http://www.philm.demon.co.uk *
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On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:15:03 GMT, Brian McDonald
<Brian_knowspam.McDonald.RemoveThis@shaw.ca> wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 22:12:56 -0800 (PST), "C. Woolard"
><rhymeswithsatan.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Feb 6, 5:35 pm, Brian McDonald <Brian_knowspam.McDon....RemoveThis@shaw.ca>
>>wrote:
>>> On 27 Dec 2007 10:26:35 GMT, mcv <mcv....RemoveThis@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>  I get the impression that the office of
>>>
>>> >president of the US gets a lot more respect in the US than some
>>> >monarchs in other countries.
>>>
>>> the americans wrap both their head of state and their political leader
>>> into the same person which is was and always will be a terrible idea.
>>> the characteristics needed to reach such a political office mean he's
>>> a conniving weasel who'd sell his mother into a barbary brothel pretty
>>> much.  pols are low creatures indeed and the higher the office the
>>> lower the character seems to sink getting there.
>>
>>So how does seperating the offices of President and Prime Minister, or
>>having a hereditary but semi-ceremonial head of state change this?
>
>you have the ceremonial head of state who gets to cut ribbons, go to
>state funerals etc whose primary job is to symbolically fire the
>president who actually runs the country.
>
>the bennies of this are that the president does not waste his valuable
>time on ceremonial twaddle or at least not much of it.
>
>the rest of us get to treat him as the conniving sob politician that
>he is without being disrespectful of one's country.
>
>go to australia, canada or britain for instance and you'll find their
>attitude toward their prime minister is decidedly different and imho
>much healthier than the american attitude toward their president is.

Part of that is the resentment we feel (at least in Canada) that the
party picks the PM and not the voters. If we REALLY do not like the
potential PM we have to choke back our vomit and vote for a party we
find distasteful. At least that is sort of moderated by having more
than 2 parties.

>personally i prefer a monarch rather than an elected guy as that just
>brings politics into again albeit at a lower intensity.

Tell me about it, the apointment of Adrian Clarkson has opened the
door for other media personalities to be appointed. Will Don Cherry be
the next appointed Governor General?
--

Grant
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Brian McDonald wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:37:32 -0500, David Alex Lamb
> <dalamb.TakeThisOut@cs.queensu.ca> wrote:
>> I doubt it worked all that well, but I suspect it worked better than
>> the more cynical of us might think.
>
> the more cynical of us think that in those days dishonourable men
> tended to wind up impaled with something sharpish in due course.

Where is Vlad Tepes when we need him?

Yes, I think the excesses a tyrannos might have indulged in were
inhibited by his knowledge of his eventual exposure to sharp objects.
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All hail Discordia wrote:
> Tell me about it, the apointment of Adrian Clarkson has opened the
> door for other media personalities to be appointed. Will Don Cherry be
> the next appointed Governor General?

I don't see why her origins matter that much; aside from a few excessive
(but legal) expenditures she seems to have done OK as GG.

And Michaëlle Jean was an inspired choice.
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