Prestige Classes and Specialists

ericp06.TakeThisOut@sbcglobal.net says...
> Ubiquitous <weberm.TakeThisOut@polaris.net> wrote:

>> You can make any level PrC's, actually, but yeah, a single-level one
>> seems pointless (why does everyone seem to think you *HAVE* to have
>> ten-level prestigue classes?).
>
>I don't think we have to have ten-level PrCs, but having some gives many
>opportunities. Of course, no PC need take all levels of any PrC. Myself,
>I don't see much point to having a PrC of fewer than five levels, but we
>don't currently have such a thing as a "mini-PrC," so I incorporate a
>few three-level PrCs along with several five- and ten-level ones (but I
>reject the notion of a PrC of more than ten levels...just a "me" thing).

I think the least prestigue class levels I have seen were three, but
the class was some sort of teleporter/plane traveler and seemed pretty
useless.
 >> Stay informed about: Prestige Classes and Specialists 

ericp06 RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net says...
> Ubiquitous <weberm RemoveThis @polaris.net> wrote:

>> You can make any level PrC's, actually, but yeah, a single-level one
>> seems pointless (why does everyone seem to think you *HAVE* to have
>> ten-level prestigue classes?).
>
>I don't think we have to have ten-level PrCs, but having some gives many
>opportunities. Of course, no PC need take all levels of any PrC. Myself,
>I don't see much point to having a PrC of fewer than five levels, but we
>don't currently have such a thing as a "mini-PrC," so I incorporate a
>few three-level PrCs along with several five- and ten-level ones (but I
>reject the notion of a PrC of more than ten levels...just a "me" thing).

I think the least prestigue class levels I have seen were three, but
the class was some sort of teleporter/plane traveler and seemed pretty
useless.
 >> Stay informed about: Prestige Classes and Specialists 

ericp06.DeleteThis@sbcglobal.net says...
> Ubiquitous <weberm.DeleteThis@polaris.net> wrote:

>> You can make any level PrC's, actually, but yeah, a single-level one
>> seems pointless (why does everyone seem to think you *HAVE* to have
>> ten-level prestigue classes?).
>
>I don't think we have to have ten-level PrCs, but having some gives many
>opportunities. Of course, no PC need take all levels of any PrC. Myself,
>I don't see much point to having a PrC of fewer than five levels, but we
>don't currently have such a thing as a "mini-PrC," so I incorporate a
>few three-level PrCs along with several five- and ten-level ones (but I
>reject the notion of a PrC of more than ten levels...just a "me" thing).

I think the least prestigue class levels I have seen were three, but
the class was some sort of teleporter/plane traveler and seemed pretty
useless.
 >> Stay informed about: Prestige Classes and Specialists 

Nikolas Landauer wrote:

> Eric P. wrote:
>> Hadsil wrote:
>> >
>> > Complete Mage offers a Prestige Class called Master
>> > Specialist which is for specialist mages. You start out
>> > as the "normal" specilist and then use the prestige
>> > class to specialize more. It is purposely designed to
>> > become eligible at level 4. Prestige Class abilities
>> > gained are naturally dependent upon what school you
>> > are specialized in.
>>
>> Rather than as a PrC, I view specialists as casters
>> who follow casting traditions. It's just one way to
>> approach the issue.
>
> That's the kind of thing a PrC can be used to represent. The Master
> Specialist PrC does a good job of this; the abilities you gain for each
> specialty are *very* different from each other.
>
> My only problem with it, as written, is that there's no downside. If I
> use Master Specialist IMC, I'll probably add an extra barred school at
> PrC level 1, allowing the caster to replace any existing newly-barred
> spells in their spellbook with spells from their specialty school.
>

I haven't seen the book, either, but I'm guessing that you lose on BAB
(important for ranged-touch spells), Fort and Ref saves, and levels that
count towards your familiar (if you have one). Unless the PrC explicitly
says "this class counts for your familiar" ... it doesn't.
 >> Stay informed about: Prestige Classes and Specialists 

Nikolas Landauer wrote:

> Eric P. wrote:
>> Hadsil wrote:
>> >
>> > Complete Mage offers a Prestige Class called Master
>> > Specialist which is for specialist mages. You start out
>> > as the "normal" specilist and then use the prestige
>> > class to specialize more. It is purposely designed to
>> > become eligible at level 4. Prestige Class abilities
>> > gained are naturally dependent upon what school you
>> > are specialized in.
>>
>> Rather than as a PrC, I view specialists as casters
>> who follow casting traditions. It's just one way to
>> approach the issue.
>
> That's the kind of thing a PrC can be used to represent. The Master
> Specialist PrC does a good job of this; the abilities you gain for each
> specialty are *very* different from each other.
>
> My only problem with it, as written, is that there's no downside. If I
> use Master Specialist IMC, I'll probably add an extra barred school at
> PrC level 1, allowing the caster to replace any existing newly-barred
> spells in their spellbook with spells from their specialty school.
>

I haven't seen the book, either, but I'm guessing that you lose on BAB
(important for ranged-touch spells), Fort and Ref saves, and levels that
count towards your familiar (if you have one). Unless the PrC explicitly
says "this class counts for your familiar" ... it doesn't.
 >> Stay informed about: Prestige Classes and Specialists 

Nikolas Landauer wrote:

> Eric P. wrote:
>> Hadsil wrote:
>> >
>> > Complete Mage offers a Prestige Class called Master
>> > Specialist which is for specialist mages. You start out
>> > as the "normal" specilist and then use the prestige
>> > class to specialize more. It is purposely designed to
>> > become eligible at level 4. Prestige Class abilities
>> > gained are naturally dependent upon what school you
>> > are specialized in.
>>
>> Rather than as a PrC, I view specialists as casters
>> who follow casting traditions. It's just one way to
>> approach the issue.
>
> That's the kind of thing a PrC can be used to represent. The Master
> Specialist PrC does a good job of this; the abilities you gain for each
> specialty are *very* different from each other.
>
> My only problem with it, as written, is that there's no downside. If I
> use Master Specialist IMC, I'll probably add an extra barred school at
> PrC level 1, allowing the caster to replace any existing newly-barred
> spells in their spellbook with spells from their specialty school.
>

I haven't seen the book, either, but I'm guessing that you lose on BAB
(important for ranged-touch spells), Fort and Ref saves, and levels that
count towards your familiar (if you have one). Unless the PrC explicitly
says "this class counts for your familiar" ... it doesn't.
 >> Stay informed about: Prestige Classes and Specialists 

Nikolas Landauer wrote:

> Eric P. wrote:
>> Hadsil wrote:
>> >
>> > Complete Mage offers a Prestige Class called Master
>> > Specialist which is for specialist mages. You start out
>> > as the "normal" specilist and then use the prestige
>> > class to specialize more. It is purposely designed to
>> > become eligible at level 4. Prestige Class abilities
>> > gained are naturally dependent upon what school you
>> > are specialized in.
>>
>> Rather than as a PrC, I view specialists as casters
>> who follow casting traditions. It's just one way to
>> approach the issue.
>
> That's the kind of thing a PrC can be used to represent. The Master
> Specialist PrC does a good job of this; the abilities you gain for each
> specialty are *very* different from each other.
>
> My only problem with it, as written, is that there's no downside. If I
> use Master Specialist IMC, I'll probably add an extra barred school at
> PrC level 1, allowing the caster to replace any existing newly-barred
> spells in their spellbook with spells from their specialty school.
>

I haven't seen the book, either, but I'm guessing that you lose on BAB
(important for ranged-touch spells), Fort and Ref saves, and levels that
count towards your familiar (if you have one). Unless the PrC explicitly
says "this class counts for your familiar" ... it doesn't.
 >> Stay informed about: Prestige Classes and Specialists 

Nikolas Landauer wrote:

> Eric P. wrote:
>> Hadsil wrote:
>> >
>> > Complete Mage offers a Prestige Class called Master
>> > Specialist which is for specialist mages. You start out
>> > as the "normal" specilist and then use the prestige
>> > class to specialize more. It is purposely designed to
>> > become eligible at level 4. Prestige Class abilities
>> > gained are naturally dependent upon what school you
>> > are specialized in.
>>
>> Rather than as a PrC, I view specialists as casters
>> who follow casting traditions. It's just one way to
>> approach the issue.
>
> That's the kind of thing a PrC can be used to represent. The Master
> Specialist PrC does a good job of this; the abilities you gain for each
> specialty are *very* different from each other.
>
> My only problem with it, as written, is that there's no downside. If I
> use Master Specialist IMC, I'll probably add an extra barred school at
> PrC level 1, allowing the caster to replace any existing newly-barred
> spells in their spellbook with spells from their specialty school.
>

I haven't seen the book, either, but I'm guessing that you lose on BAB
(important for ranged-touch spells), Fort and Ref saves, and levels that
count towards your familiar (if you have one). Unless the PrC explicitly
says "this class counts for your familiar" ... it doesn't.
 >> Stay informed about: Prestige Classes and Specialists 

Nikolas Landauer wrote:

> Eric P. wrote:
>> Hadsil wrote:
>> >
>> > Complete Mage offers a Prestige Class called Master
>> > Specialist which is for specialist mages. You start out
>> > as the "normal" specilist and then use the prestige
>> > class to specialize more. It is purposely designed to
>> > become eligible at level 4. Prestige Class abilities
>> > gained are naturally dependent upon what school you
>> > are specialized in.
>>
>> Rather than as a PrC, I view specialists as casters
>> who follow casting traditions. It's just one way to
>> approach the issue.
>
> That's the kind of thing a PrC can be used to represent. The Master
> Specialist PrC does a good job of this; the abilities you gain for each
> specialty are *very* different from each other.
>
> My only problem with it, as written, is that there's no downside. If I
> use Master Specialist IMC, I'll probably add an extra barred school at
> PrC level 1, allowing the caster to replace any existing newly-barred
> spells in their spellbook with spells from their specialty school.
>

I haven't seen the book, either, but I'm guessing that you lose on BAB
(important for ranged-touch spells), Fort and Ref saves, and levels that
count towards your familiar (if you have one). Unless the PrC explicitly
says "this class counts for your familiar" ... it doesn't.
 >> Stay informed about: Prestige Classes and Specialists 

Nikolas Landauer wrote:

> Eric P. wrote:
>> Hadsil wrote:
>> >
>> > Complete Mage offers a Prestige Class called Master
>> > Specialist which is for specialist mages. You start out
>> > as the "normal" specilist and then use the prestige
>> > class to specialize more. It is purposely designed to
>> > become eligible at level 4. Prestige Class abilities
>> > gained are naturally dependent upon what school you
>> > are specialized in.
>>
>> Rather than as a PrC, I view specialists as casters
>> who follow casting traditions. It's just one way to
>> approach the issue.
>
> That's the kind of thing a PrC can be used to represent. The Master
> Specialist PrC does a good job of this; the abilities you gain for each
> specialty are *very* different from each other.
>
> My only problem with it, as written, is that there's no downside. If I
> use Master Specialist IMC, I'll probably add an extra barred school at
> PrC level 1, allowing the caster to replace any existing newly-barred
> spells in their spellbook with spells from their specialty school.
>

I haven't seen the book, either, but I'm guessing that you lose on BAB
(important for ranged-touch spells), Fort and Ref saves, and levels that
count towards your familiar (if you have one). Unless the PrC explicitly
says "this class counts for your familiar" ... it doesn't.
 >> Stay informed about: Prestige Classes and Specialists 

Keith Davies wrote:
>
> ISTR there's a wizard-based PrC that has 13 levels, but forget the name.

I believe the void disciple in Oriental Adventures was the first prestige class
with more than ten levels; it has thirteen. Is that what you're thinking of?

> There's also a 12-level PrC in Eberron, IIRC. In both cases there are
> thematic reasons for the numbers of levels.

Yep. Personally, there's no good reason I can see for hard-and-fast rules about
this sort of thing. I say use the number of levels that fits your concept.

--
Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
-------
What can change the nature of a man?
-------
Sydney-based gamers - Get in touch with
SUTEKH at the University of Sydney!
http://forum.sutekh.info/
 >> Stay informed about: Prestige Classes and Specialists 

Christopher Adams <mhacdebhandia.DeleteThis@yahoo.invalid> wrote:
> Keith Davies wrote:
>>
>> ISTR there's a wizard-based PrC that has 13 levels, but forget the name.
>
> I believe the void disciple in Oriental Adventures was the first
> prestige class with more than ten levels; it has thirteen. Is that
> what you're thinking of?

I think I was thinking of an archmage-type PrC, but I'm not sure.

>> There's also a 12-level PrC in Eberron, IIRC. In both cases there are
>> thematic reasons for the numbers of levels.
>
> Yep. Personally, there's no good reason I can see for hard-and-fast
> rules about this sort of thing. I say use the number of levels that
> fits your concept.

Indeed. '5' and '10' are both *good* numbers, don't get me wrong, but I
don't feel particularly constrained to using them if another number fits
better. As I said, '15' is a good number for 'real career'-type PrC, I
can see numbers between 5 and 10 (or greater than 10) if there are
thematic reasons. Less than five doesn't usually seem right to me, but
that may just be mental habit. *One* level really doesn't feel like a
class to me. A mixin of some sort (something templatish, perhaps), but
not a class. It doesn't seem to have enough coherency to say 'here is a
type of person or role'.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies.DeleteThis@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies.DeleteThis@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
 >> Stay informed about: Prestige Classes and Specialists 

Darin McBride <dmcbride.RemoveThis@tower.to.org.no.spam.for.me> wrote:
> Nikolas Landauer wrote:
>
>> Darin McBride wrote:
>>> I haven't seen the book, either, but I'm guessing
>>> that you lose on BAB (important for ranged-touch
>>> spells), Fort and Ref saves,
>>
>> No more so than a wizard already does. Since wizards already have the
>> worst BAB, Fort and Ref saves, they can't exactly lose out on these
>> fronts.
>
> Well, depends on whether you take the numbers as-is, or if you use
> fractional adjustments. If you use the core rules with no variants, then
> these will lose out even more compared to a straight wizard.

Unless you hit a sweet spot. Immediately after levels 6, 12, and 18,
for example, you would lose nothing on these scores. And if you're not
using fractional adjustments, you gain a +2 to Will.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies.RemoveThis@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies.RemoveThis@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
 >> Stay informed about: Prestige Classes and Specialists