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Sian Son of Cune

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Since: May 08, 2006
Posts: 14



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 1:16 pm
Post subject: Prestige Class
Archived from groups: rec>games>frp>dnd (more info?)

Hey guys I am working on this prestige class with my DM for his
campaign. It is a possible alternative to the Mage of the Arcane order
from the Complete Arcane. Tell me what you guys think and if it is
Balanced. Thanks in advance.
Through out the land of Thundain there are naturally occurring and man
made arcane vortexes known as Taps. These are the conduits which
emanate magic into the world. With out these taps spellweaving would be
impossible and mortal magic would die. Some of weavers however have
learned to break the laws of traditional spell weaving and access the
Taps power directly. These weavers are known as Seekers.

Seeker
Hit Die: d4

Requirements
To become a Seeker a character must meet the following criteria.
Knowledge (Arcana): 8 ranks. Knowledge (Geography): 4 ranks.
Spellcraft: 6 ranks.
Spells: The ability to prepare(Arcane preparation feat if spontaneous
caster) and cast arcane spells from all schools of magic. Ability to
cast Arcane Mark.

Class Skills
The Seeker class skills (and the key abilities for each skill)
are Alchemy (Int.), Concentration (Con), Craft, Decipher Script,
Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge(Int.), Speak Language, Profession
(Wis.), Spellcraft (Int.), Use Magic
Device (Cha). See Chapter 4: Skills in the Player's Handbook for skill
descriptions.

Skill Points 4 + int. modifier.

L BA F/R/W Special Spells Per Day

1 0 0 0 2 Spell Tap,Fimiliar +1 level of existing class
2 1 0 0 3 +1 level of existing class
3 1 1 1 3 +1 level of existing class
4 2 1 1 4 Spell Tap +1 level of existing class
5 2 1 1 4 Flash Void +1 level of existing class
6 3 2 2 5 Spell Tap + +1 level of existing class
7 3 2 2 5 +1 level of existing class
8 4 2 2 6 +1 level of existing class
9 4 3 3 6 Spell Tap +1 level of existing class
10 5 3 3 7 Void +1 level of existing class

Class Features
All the following are class features of the Seeker prestige
class.

Weapons and Armor: Seekers gain no additional proficiency in any
weapon or armor.

Fimiliar: A Seeker's class levels stack with previous class(s) when
determining fimiliar abilities.

Spell per Day: When a new Seeker level is gained, the character
gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a
spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class.
She does not, however, gain any other benefits a character of that
class would have gained (improved chance of controlling or rebuking
undead, meta-magic or item creation feats, hit points beyond these he
receives from the prestige class, and so on), except for an increased
effective level of spell casting. If a character had more than one
spellcasting class before becoming a Seeker, she must decide to
which class she adds each level of Seeker for purposes of
determining spells per day.

Spell Tap (Sp): Beginning at first level and again at 4th, 6th, and
9th,
the Seeker may choose a new spell tap. A Seeker may memorize
that tap as one of his spells for the day and may then cast any spell
on his spell list,
from a school associated with that tap of the appropriate level. Any
Meta-Magic feats must be applied when first preparing the spell (i.e.
3 lvl slot holding an extended 2nd level tap). The mage may prepare
total spell levels equal to his total arcane caster level in this
manner. Casting a spell from a spell tap is a full round action.

Example:
Clou Wren a 6th lvl Sorceror, 4th lvl Seeker, has prepared the Deltan
Soul Springs in a 4th and 3rd lvl slot, and The Rikian Fire Gate in a
3rd lvl slot. This would give him access to 1 4th lvl Enchantment or
Conjuration Spell, 1 3rd lvl Enchantment or Conjuration Spell, and 1
3rd lvl Evocation or Transmutation spell.

Flash Void (Su): At 5th lvl a Seeker can sense the incoming energies
from marked taps. Thus 1/day as an immediate action with a successful
spellcraft to identify the spell being cast, a Seeker may burn a
prepared tap with an associated school of equal or higher lvl to
counterspell that spell.

Void (Su): At 10th lvl a Seeker may disconnect himself and a 20' radius
around him from a tap he has access to. This effect acts as an
antimagic field against that tap and all schools of magic associated
with it. He may use this ability once per day for each tap he can
access for up to 1min.

Known Spell Taps
Eo (Enchantment, Conjuration)
Indrastan Temple (Divination, Enchantment)
Numarian Burial Pits (Conjuration, Necromancy)
Triaddus Wastes (Evocation, Transmutation)
Academy of Corillia (Abjuration, Evocation)
Breolis Ruins (Necromancy, Illusion)
Oasis of Bastion (Transmutation, Divination)
Cliffs of Mythria (Illusion, Abjuration)

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webhed

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Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 251



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Prestige Class [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Hey could someone reply to the above post how they feel about the
balance of it? I'm the DM looking for comments from others before I
approve it or deny it.

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webhed

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Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 251



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:52 am
Post subject: Re: Prestige Class [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Lorenz.Lang wrote:

> I wouldn't allow it as is IMC, sorry...

Hey - as the DM, thanks for commenting. Its comments like yours that
will help my player tweak his class (if he really wants to play it) and
it helps me in case I overlooked any particular balance issues. I'd
like to hear some thoughts from others on it too if possible!
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Sian Son of Cune

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Since: May 08, 2006
Posts: 14



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 7:29 am
Post subject: Re: Prestige Class [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Yes thank you very much for the input it does help alot.

Just a few things about what I was thinking when putting this together.
Let me know if I am crazy.
Things I removed from Mage of the arcane order:
1)The 2 bonus Feats
2)The bonus language
3)The bonus spell
4)The regent ability

Replaced with:
1)Fimiliar progression
2)Flash Void
3)Void
4)Bonus Skill Points

Other notes:
1) I thought spell tapping is actually weaker than spell pools so I
thought it would give options for some slightly stronger other effects
2) I agree Void is a strong ability, but I kinda liked the concept. I
debated removing the Seeker's 10th lvl spells per day to try to make up
for it.
3) The fimiliar progression I threw in because I never understood why
straight spell casting prestige classes like MoTAO, and Lore Master
lost it.

Balance Changes:
1) Lose fimiliar progression
2) Lose spell progression at 10th lvl

Thanks again and I would like to hear from others please.
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webhed

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Since: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 251



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 7:32 am
Post subject: Re: Prestige Class [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Sian Son of Cune

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Since: May 08, 2006
Posts: 14



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 7:37 am
Post subject: Re: Prestige Class [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Oh and I made arcane mark a requirement for 2 reasons
1) To make it more difficult for a divine caster to access this class
2) I was also thinking of maybe having the seeker actually have to go
to the Tap and place his mark on it in order to have access to it. I
was debating not doing that because I did not want the character to be
a campaign monopolizer as he tries to drag the party all over the world
so he can mark a tap. But this could be more up to the DM.

UMD was made a class skill because I thought have having the Seeker
make a UMD check to access the tap, but I think I will scrap that idea
and drop UMD from the list.
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Lorenz.Lang

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Since: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 503



(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:49 am
Post subject: Re: Prestige Class [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Sian Son of Cune wrote:
> Oh and I made arcane mark a requirement for 2 reasons
> 1) To make it more difficult for a divine caster to access this class

Well, you made arcane casting a req. and AM is just a zero-level
spell. So it's almost redundant (for Wiz anyway).

> 2) I was also thinking of maybe having the seeker actually have to go
> to the Tap and place his mark on it in order to have access to it. I
> was debating not doing that because I did not want the character to be
> a campaign monopolizer as he tries to drag the party all over the world
> so he can mark a tap. But this could be more up to the DM.

That's an idea I like. Plus, it's a req. which must actually be played
out.
Not the "I need a week off to pay my spell debt." of the MoAO.
The other PCs should be glad for the opportunity to go on an
adventure to find the Taps their Seeker aehm seeks.

> UMD was made a class skill because I thought have having the Seeker
> make a UMD check to access the tap, but I think I will scrap that idea
> and drop UMD from the list.

Yeah, I'd drop it too.

LL
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Lorenz.Lang

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Since: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 503



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 9:25 am
Post subject: Re: Prestige Class [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Sian Son of Cune wrote:
> Yes thank you very much for the input it does help alot.
>
> Just a few things about what I was thinking when putting this together.
> Let me know if I am crazy.
> Things I removed from Mage of the arcane order:
> 1)The 2 bonus Feats
> 2)The bonus language
> 3)The bonus spell
> 4)The regent ability
>
> Replaced with:
> 1)Fimiliar progression

Which is not in character with the class, if you ask me.

> 2)Flash Void
Good idea IMO.

> 3)Void
Not so good idea IMO...

> 4)Bonus Skill Points

Which equals a (weak) feat every two levels (one of those +2 x /+2 y),
but with free skill choice. Wiz and related PrCs usually get only 2.
Only Loremaster gets 4 for obvious reasons.
I don't think it adds much to the class.

> Other notes:
> 1) I thought spell tapping is actually weaker than spell pools so I
> thought it would give options for some slightly stronger other effects

The Seeker will never run out of them, which is an important benefit.
The MoAO may 'borrow' a certain number of spell levels before he
has to return to his order and pay his debt.
It is slightly more restricted with the Taps and their schools, that's
true,
but I don't think it's less powerful overall.

> 2) I agree Void is a strong ability, but I kinda liked the concept. I
> debated removing the Seeker's 10th lvl spells per day to try to make up
> for it.

That's a big loss...as a player I'd rather take
the +1 level of existing class.
AMF is just 6th level, what's the spell level of a selective field?

Other possible abilities:

If the Seeker knows two Taps of the same school, tapped spells
from that school gain +1 DC. Increases to +2 for 4 Taps.

Skill check Spellcraft DC 25 to find the direction to a Tap he knows.
Check vs. DC 30 allows him to determine the exact distance.

> 3) The fimiliar progression I threw in because I never understood why
> straight spell casting prestige classes like MoTAO, and Lore Master
> lost it.

One of the mysteries of magic to be unrevelled. Smile

> Balance Changes:
> 1) Lose fimiliar progression
> 2) Lose spell progression at 10th lvl

I'd rather give 2 SP instead of 4, drop Void*
and keep spell progression.

*How would it interact with divine magic?

Another idea:
Instead of Void give him the ability to use a Tap spell slot
to make a swift Spell Turning vs a spell of equal or lower
level and with one of the right schools

And a question: what if the Seeker travels to some other plane?
Does he lose the connection to his Taps?

LL
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Sian Son of Cune

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Since: May 08, 2006
Posts: 14



(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 9:56 am
Post subject: Re: Prestige Class [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Lorenz.Lang.TakeThisOut@gmx.de wrote:
> Sian Son of Cune wrote:
> > Yes thank you very much for the input it does help alot.
> >
> > Just a few things about what I was thinking when putting this together.
> > Let me know if I am crazy.
> > Things I removed from Mage of the arcane order:
> > 1)The 2 bonus Feats
> > 2)The bonus language
> > 3)The bonus spell
> > 4)The regent ability
> >
> > Replaced with:
> > 1)Fimiliar progression
>
> Which is not in character with the class, if you ask me.

True, not a big deal could easily do without
>
> > 2)Flash Void
> Good idea IMO.
>
> > 3)Void
> Not so good idea IMO...
>
> > 4)Bonus Skill Points
>
> Which equals a (weak) feat every two levels (one of those +2 x /+2 y),
> but with free skill choice. Wiz and related PrCs usually get only 2.
> Only Loremaster gets 4 for obvious reasons.
> I don't think it adds much to the class.

The thinking was that they need more skills to research and locate the
taps, but I see what you are saying.
>
> > Other notes:
> > 1) I thought spell tapping is actually weaker than spell pools so I
> > thought it would give options for some slightly stronger other effects
>
> The Seeker will never run out of them, which is an important benefit.
> The MoAO may 'borrow' a certain number of spell levels before he
> has to return to his order and pay his debt.
> It is slightly more restricted with the Taps and their schools, that's
> true,
> but I don't think it's less powerful overall.

Don't forget that a Seeker must memorize taps at specific spell lvls.
So if he prepares a 3rd lvl evocation Tap, he could use it to cast
fireball not magic missle.
>
> > 2) I agree Void is a strong ability, but I kinda liked the concept. I
> > debated removing the Seeker's 10th lvl spells per day to try to make up
> > for it.
>
> That's a big loss...as a player I'd rather take
> the +1 level of existing class.
> AMF is just 6th level, what's the spell level of a selective field?

That is a good question... 8th maybe?
>
> Other possible abilities:
>
> If the Seeker knows two Taps of the same school, tapped spells
> from that school gain +1 DC. Increases to +2 for 4 Taps.
I kind of like that idea. Though with the current setup only 2 taps
share a school at a time. But those are just the "Known" Taps
>
> Skill check Spellcraft DC 25 to find the direction to a Tap he knows.
> Check vs. DC 30 allows him to determine the exact distance.
I kind of like that too, though it reduces the need for
Knowledge(geography)
>
> > 3) The fimiliar progression I threw in because I never understood why
> > straight spell casting prestige classes like MoTAO, and Lore Master
> > lost it.
>
> One of the mysteries of magic to be unrevelled. Smile
True =)
>
> > Balance Changes:
> > 1) Lose fimiliar progression
> > 2) Lose spell progression at 10th lvl
>
> I'd rather give 2 SP instead of 4, drop Void*
> and keep spell progression.

If void is dropped I would like to replace with something. I dont just
seems like 10th lvl of a Prestige Class needs something kinda cool.
>
> *How would it interact with divine magic?

In what regard? If you mean as far as the Flash Void, and Void
abilities, I think it would work as normal. If you mean can divine
magic be accessed through the Taps, I would say no.
>
> Another idea:
> Instead of Void give him the ability to use a Tap spell slot
> to make a swift Spell Turning vs a spell of equal or lower
> level and with one of the right schools
Thats kinda cool, kinda of like Flash Void but instead can be turned
back on the caster.
Or maybe even a new target completely
>
> And a question: what if the Seeker travels to some other plane?
> Does he lose the connection to his Taps?

Did not think of that... Good point. I think it would depend on the
plane. I would say he loses it on all planes except perhaps the
Ethereal and Astral, since both of those touch the prime material.
>
> LL
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