Potence function on Improvised Tactics

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Frederick Scott wrote:

> One thing that struck me: you may actually want a fair number of
> Watchtowers in the deck because the maintenance cost may cause you to
> let them go from time to time. And, in fact, you could choose to play
> new ones as your MPA to get them out of your hand for as little or
> less than their maintenance. Only problem is that someone might have
> a Sudden Reversal or a Wash and that would be a nasty surprise if you'd
> counted on having one out on the upcoming turn. But the option is there
> if you were getting hand-jammed. (You could also pay the maintenance
> AND play the new Watchtower since it's not unique, but then you'd wind
> up paying both costs.)

If you really need your master cards to end up in play,
Anthelios/Parthenon is a good way to make sure it happens.

> How to make sure you get your event early, I couldn't say. Certainly
> seems worthwhile to include one or two Drop Point Networks, at least.

Drop Point Network only searches for minion cards, so it won't find either
piece of your combo here. I'd suggest running The Colonel (Black Hand
!Malk with celerity) and some Sibyl's Tongues.

> And it's one deck I'd throw in Black Hand Rituals for. An imbued
> deck spitting out a Gehenna card every other turn could be a disaster!

Watchtower: The Wolves Feed can be used to stop Gehenna cards from being
played. Magic card text!

Matt Morgan
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"Matthew T. Morgan" <farquar.RemoveThis@io.com> wrote in message news:20080118092435.L12494@fnord.io.com...
> Watchtower: The Wolves Feed can be used to stop Gehenna cards from being played. Magic card text!

OK, good point. Although I think people wait for you to tap out and/or
conspire to do things that would require you to tap out. (Maybe you
want to play Piotr Andreikov just to leave sit there and stop Gehenna
cards? )

Fred
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On Jan 18, 10:27 am, Peter D Bakija <p... DeleteThis @lightlink.com> wrote:
> Drop Point Network can't get master cards or events, which makes it
> all a bit trickier. I think one version of the deck had me using Drop
> Point Network to fetch a Sybil's Tounge to go get whichever card I
> needed at the time. That was one of the less successful versions of
> that deck

Greg Pettigrew has a Black Hand Wolves Feed deck (though not one based
around CEL). I suggested using Inconnu Tutelege to him, since it can
allow you to grab either an event or Wolves Feed - whichever part of
the combo you're currently missing. I'll go ahead and suggest it to
you, too.

John Eno
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In article <20080118092435.L12494.DeleteThis@fnord.io.com>,
"Matthew T. Morgan" <farquar.DeleteThis@io.com> wrote:

> Watchtower: The Wolves Feed can be used to stop Gehenna cards from being
> played. Magic card text!

Yes, but if they get a couple events in play *before* you play the
Watchtower, you are screwzord. Being able to prune a couple events can
be a life saver.

Peter D Bakija
pdb6.DeleteThis@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html

"Find hungry samurai."
-The Old Man
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On Jan 18, 5:30 am, Peter D Bakija <p....TakeThisOut@lightlink.com> wrote:
> On Jan 16, 11:44 pm, "Frederick Scott" <nos....TakeThisOut@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
> > I think you're right about the 12 Go Anarch cards. Looking at it from
> > this perspective, I would leave them out and just pay the blood and be
> > tapped. However, I would also include a healthy number of Resist
> > Earth's Grasps. It really is the perfect card for the deck.
>
> Yeah, that is probably a good plan (don't use any go anarch cards at
> all, use some stealth instead). You could probably include 8 or so
> Thrown Gates for extra manuever/damage if you get blocked going
> anarch, too.

Don't put 12 Galaric's in your deck, put 6 plus 1 Seattle Committee.
With 7 become anarch cards in your 90 card deck, you have a ~45%
chance of having one in your opening hand. The average to get 1 will
be card ~11.5.

I don't believe the actual math matches Peter's complaining about the
hardships of going anarch and all the wasted card slots.

That said, for this particular discussion, I think Improvised Tactics
is nearly wallpaper, because if you're going to bother going Anarch,
you might as well play something strong like Diversion. If you want
to play Improvised Tactics, just use a .44 instead, which comes with a
manuever, doesn't require Anarch, and can be used at close. Or use
Lids and Gates, for the same reason.

I won't defend Improvised Tactics, but I will defend the use of ~7
become anarch cards in a 90 card anarch deck.

Ira
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Frederick Scott wrote:
> ...reads, "At long range, each round, this minion may strike for
> 2R damage each strike."
>
> That appears to mean that Victor Tolliver with just a Blur card
> could strike three times in the same round for 2R times three, no?
>
> If so, I think a horrendously efficient short-chain combat
> module could be created around Pursuits and Improvised
> Tactics for any minion with pot/CEL disciplines. Throw in
> Psyche!s, Tastes, Sideslips, etc. to taste. In a lot of ways,
> I like this better than guns because you don't have to worry
> getting the gun and you don't have to worry about losing the gun.
>
> Fred

it sounds like it would, but often in practice it's really not. that
whole "at long range" thing tends to kill so much utility. i mean, if
you're already at long, and you want to keep things to 1 round, why
aren't you using Lids or Sport Bikes? to keep your deck smaller for
additional oust elsewhere? fighting for the range becomes very tiresome,
something you don't have to fight so hard for when using a .44.

and if you're using Increased Strength you need to find a way to
continually stay at long and go multiple rounds, vomit forth multiple
copies of IS, or lots of add strikes, to get the most out of this. and
even then, a simple Manstopper Rounds on your .44 can often net you the
same w/o fighting so hard, and after strikes so you don't lose it to S:CE.

it does seem interesting for loosely binded pot decks w/ or w/o cel,
since IR Goggles and Groundfighting is available. in fact, a few pot
cel decks w/ just IT, Diversions, and Flash could be interesting. i was
thinking of pot pro decks to at least squeeze out some further utility;
Zach North and Badger makes a good start on such a crypt. throw in some
Carrion Crows, Tastes, and presses and there might be something worth
fielding on a casual night. throw in Street Creds and it might already
be good to go.

but honestly i think the card should be errataed. the effects are just
too weak for all the effort. i've already offered my take on how it
should be errataed elsewhere on this board. the template is really
interesting and i think it should be attempted again. it's technically
the only 3-way where you can get more than 1 discipline effect out of a
single card, let alone repeatedly over multiple rounds (which is why i'm
thinking about Carrion Crows for my next attempt w/ it. CC is one of the
best reasons to go multiple rounds). that alone should hold some promise
for the designers of any new anarch toys. but as it stands... it
definitely needs support.

there's always Improvised Tactics and a bucket of Mighty Grapples. but
for that i'd likely use Owls or Auras to check for S:CE before i bother.
and i'd run Havens Uncovered or other dogpile rush card (a
Prince/Archbishop calling Blood Hunts/War Parties?). shakey, but
possibly entertaining. maybe for a wacky Anarch Revolt w/ Anathema or
something.
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In article
<414decbd-32a0-439d-88cd-0d109c44ba74.DeleteThis@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
"ira212@gmail.com" <ira212.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:

> Don't put 12 Galaric's in your deck, put 6 plus 1 Seattle Committee.
> With 7 become anarch cards in your 90 card deck, you have a ~45%
> chance of having one in your opening hand. The average to get 1 will
> be card ~11.5.

Which is nice and all, as previously noted, but still not a good enough
chance to draw the cards you need as soon as you need them. Especially
when you need all of your minions to be anarchs (such as in a CEL/pot
Improvised Tactics deck--having 1 anarch doesn't help. You need everyone
an anarch.)

> I don't believe the actual math matches Peter's complaining about the
> hardships of going anarch and all the wasted card slots.

Last night I played a completely non anarch related deck, a
fortitude/auspex deck. I was sitting in front of a bleedzooka !Malk
deck. I wasn't real worried, as I was packing 10 bleed bounce cards.
Except after I got ousted, having not drawn a single bleed bounce card,
I looked in my thoroughly shuffled deck and found that all 10 of my
bounce cards were in the bottom 45 cards of my deck. I suspect that I
had a very reasonable chance of drawing them regularly and often. And
yet that didn't happen. 'Cause things like this happen all the time in
games like this (i.e. card games).

> I won't defend Improvised Tactics, but I will defend the use of ~7
> become anarch cards in a 90 card anarch deck.

If you need to go anarch to make the deck work, and you need all of your
minions anarchs? It simply isn't enough. Even remotely. Which is why
throwing out all the go anarch tech and just going anarch the hard is a
better plan most of the time. And that is still not that great of a plan.

Peter D Bakija
pdb6.DeleteThis@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html

"Find hungry samurai."
-The Old Man
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In message <j63kj.755$ov5.718@newsfe15.phx>, Frederick Scott
<nospam DeleteThis @no.spam.dot.com> writes:
>And it's one deck I'd throw in Black Hand Rituals for. An imbued
>deck spitting out a Gehenna card every other turn could be a disaster!

Given you're going Black Hand, Norm's "Magic, the Darkest Kind"
discussion made me think of suggesting Guarded Rubric as a defensive
measure.

Yeah, if it came up early and you felt you had to play it then (rather
than hold it or discard it), you'd pay one extra for your Gehenna event.
But that might be preferable to seeing 5 events come from some horror.
Who knows? Still, just tossing that out there.

It's also not a bad card.

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
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<ira212 RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message news:414decbd-32a0-439d-88cd-0d109c44ba74@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 18, 5:30 am, Peter D Bakija <p... RemoveThis @lightlink.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 16, 11:44 pm, "Frederick Scott" <nos... RemoveThis @no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
>> > I think you're right about the 12 Go Anarch cards. Looking at it from
>> > this perspective, I would leave them out and just pay the blood and be
>> > tapped.
>
> Don't put 12 Galaric's in your deck, put 6 plus 1 Seattle Committee.
> With 7 become anarch cards in your 90 card deck, you have a ~45%
> chance of having one in your opening hand. The average to get 1 will
> be card ~11.5.

I wouldn't want to put _any_ cards in the deck for this purpose, I don't
care the percentage chance of drawing one at the beginning. There's a
100% chance they'll have a really bad effect on combat card flow. That's
the point. You're looking at the wrong statistic.

Fred
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On Jan 19, 5:31 pm, "Frederick Scott" <nos... DeleteThis @no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
> <ira... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:414decbd-32a0-439d-88cd-0d109c44ba74@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jan 18, 5:30 am, Peter D Bakija <p... DeleteThis @lightlink.com> wrote:
> >> On Jan 16, 11:44 pm, "Frederick Scott" <nos... DeleteThis @no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
> >> > I think you're right about the 12 Go Anarch cards. Looking at it from
> >> > this perspective, I would leave them out and just pay the blood and be
> >> > tapped.
>
> > Don't put 12 Galaric's in your deck, put 6 plus 1 Seattle Committee.
> > With 7 become anarch cards in your 90 card deck, you have a ~45%
> > chance of having one in your opening hand. The average to get 1 will
> > be card ~11.5.
>
> I wouldn't want to put _any_ cards in the deck for this purpose, I don't
> care the percentage chance of drawing one at the beginning. There's a
> 100% chance they'll have a really bad effect on combat card flow. That's
> the point. You're looking at the wrong statistic.
>
> Fred

I'd still play the Galaric's Legacy and add a few Infernal Pursuit to
help with the combat jam. They can be used to flush excess Galaric's,
Improvised Tactics, or whatever other garbage is messing up your
combat card flow. Since you're looking to play only 2-3 cards per
combat you won't hemorrhage useful cards, either.

--
Dorrinal Blackmantle
Chantry Elder of Salt Lake City
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