Planescape 2

> There are so many paper & dice people out there playing Planescape games
> (search Ebay if you don't believe me) that there must be a market for
> another release.

This is so true ) I spent over $200 this Christmas on eBay to complete my
collection of Planescape gemes, and I'm running a campaign that involves the
setting since 1999 - when I discovered it playing Torment.

Regarding "Planescape 2", I spoke with Feargus Urquhart last year in Paris,
at a media event (his preemptive opening line at media events is "Let's
answer the first question: when there will be a sequel to Torment?") and he
said the problem basically is that Hasbro regarded the setting as the least
"family friendly" among those inherited from TSR - thus no conversion for
D&D 3ed, but only some books that allowed to the player to do the conversion
by themselves (those that I now use for my D&D 3.5 campaign).

> Yes I'd love the same dialogue based game, but it never sold very well did
> it ?

I think that, over the years, it sold its entire run - this is why now you
have to go to eBay to find it.

Regarding the table version for D&D, in 1999 my hobby shop has the four base
Planescape boxes gatering dust in a corner. I bought them all for under $80,
and then I collected all the supplements I could find, usually at "bargain
bin" prices ranging from $5 to $ 15 (and I'm speaking about Italy, so
originally their prices were inflated by import taxes, weak currency etc.).
Confront these prices with what they ask for a suppement on eBay these days.
I think that a new Planescape PC game would generate a lot of buzz.

The only thing that worries me is the quality of writing. The script of the
first game is so stellar that, even if given all the money in the world,
nothing assures that the developers would be able to pull such monumental
creative feat again.
 >> Stay informed about: Planescape 2 

> I hear you loud and clear. Let's remake PS:T, but hmm... now you don't
> control a party, now you're a sword handler and in first person
> view! And who liked all those stupid spells from the original game?
> We made it more 'streamlined' and now you have 6 spells with amazing
> 3d effects! and they don't use any complicated system like before
> with memorizing and such. Now you just shortcut to 1-6 keys, and you
> have a big blue bottle on the right of your screen which is your mana,
> and also a big red one on the left, that's your health... but don't
> worry! break all the barrels you see and they'll drop plenty of blue
> and red potions.

I would accept all the above in exchange for a script of the same quality of
the first one! One thing often overlooked is that Planescape as a game was
kinda OK: it was the script, the graphical design, the characters and the
setting that made it - you were so immersed that totally forgot about the
game (one example among many: the Intellectual Brothel run by the Sensates;
a truly memorable moment - and it was all script).
 >> Stay informed about: Planescape 2 

Thus spake Edward Cowling London UK <edward RemoveThis @genghis0.demon.co.uk>, Sat, 16
Feb 2008 13:46:33 +0000, Anno Domini:

>
>Planescape 2 - Return of the Nameless One
>
>I just has to happen. I can't believe in a logical universe where this
>won't get released one day.
>
>Until then I'll just sit over here and brood a lot

Torment 2: The Return of Derek & Clive



--
Nostromo
 >> Stay informed about: Planescape 2 

Leo <Anonymous.RemoveThis@anonymous.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:11:30 +0000, Edward Cowling London UK
><edward.RemoveThis@genghis0.demon.co.uk> blabbed:
>
>>There are so many paper & dice people out there playing Planescape games
>>(search Ebay if you don't believe me) that there must be a market for
>>another release.
>>
>>Yes I'd love the same dialogue based game, but it never sold very well
>>did it ? So I won't complain if it is more graphics and action this
>>time.
>
>
> Even though it gets lots of love here, and elsewhere on the
>net, I rarely meet people in RL who ever heard of it. I think it
>didn't sell well because it was poorly marketed.

....

The idea that Torment didn't sell well is widespread but not really
correct. Torment sold 400,000 copies which is more than Fallout or
Fallout 2, and those are considered great successes.

I think the reason people think it didn't sell well is because there
was no sequel.

400,000 copies is a damn fine figure for a game as dialogue heavy as
Torment.

-David
 >> Stay informed about: Planescape 2 

Edward Cowling London UK <edward.RemoveThis@genghis0.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Planescape 2 - Return of the Nameless One
>
> I just has to happen. I can't believe in a logical universe where this
> won't get released one day.

I fear it might, and it would be terrible. I want a game made in the
same spirit, not a game that tries to cash in on a cult hit.

Seriously, a good spiritual successor to Torment doesn't even have to
feature the Nameless One, play in the Planescape setting, or even use
the D&D system. I just want to see that level of writing and such a
deep story again.


mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
 >> Stay informed about: Planescape 2 

Vincenzo Beretta <reckall.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I would accept all the above in exchange for a script of the same quality of
> the first one! One thing often overlooked is that Planescape as a game was
> kinda OK: it was the script, the graphical design, the characters and the
> setting that made it - you were so immersed that totally forgot about the
> game (one example among many: the Intellectual Brothel run by the Sensates;
> a truly memorable moment - and it was all script).

Exactly. The one thing where Torment really stood out far above any other
CRPG, was the quality of the writing. That and the truly original scenes.
I wish I knew how they accomplished that and why nobody else has ever
done the same thing.


mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
 >> Stay informed about: Planescape 2 

mcv wrote:
> Edward Cowling London UK <edward.TakeThisOut@genghis0.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Planescape 2 - Return of the Nameless One
>>
>> I just has to happen. I can't believe in a logical universe where this
>> won't get released one day.
>
> I fear it might, and it would be terrible. I want a game made in the
> same spirit, not a game that tries to cash in on a cult hit.
>
> Seriously, a good spiritual successor to Torment doesn't even have to
> feature the Nameless One, play in the Planescape setting, or even use
> the D&D system. I just want to see that level of writing and such a
> deep story again.
>
>
> mcv.

Personally I've never understood the fascination with using the D&D
ruleset. I mean why try to recreate something that was designed for P&P
play as a computer RPG rule set? I can only presume it's the thought
that people will buy it just because it's D&D or maybe it's the fact
that a lot of the 'donkey work' has already been done for the developer.
 >> Stay informed about: Planescape 2 

In article <abcuj.885$ay3.109@newsfe5-win.ntli.net>,
JAB <nochance RemoveThis @nohope.com> wrote:
>
>Personally I've never understood the fascination with using the D&D
>ruleset. I mean why try to recreate something that was designed for P&P
>play as a computer RPG rule set? I can only presume it's the thought
>that people will buy it just because it's D&D or maybe it's the fact
>that a lot of the 'donkey work' has already been done for the developer.

It's familiarity. For those of us that grew up playing D&D in the
schoolyard when everyone else was playing soccer or football, there's
something comforting about seeing those races, those character classes,
and those six statistics all lined up in a familiar box at the top of the
PC sheet. I haven't played real paper D&D in years, and I still find the
setting and rules reassuring. I know this world well, and I can get around
in it without too much trouble.

Of course, those groups who find Dungeons and Dragons to be foundational
and authoritative have among them fifty-year-olds. Younger people who have
never played a pen-and-paper game and know only CRPGs might not view D&D
with quite that level of reverence and esteem.

-KKC, planning a software run for lunch today.
--
-- "Arabs are the new Asians, at least in media. Stereotypes gave way to
deeper roles over 40 years of assimilation into western culture. Bruce Lee
kicks ass, Jackie Chan gets laughs, B.D. Wong is a top. Arabs have | kendrick
had Klinger and Monk. Clearly, they have some catching up to do." | @io.com
 >> Stay informed about: Planescape 2 

Vincenzo Beretta <reckall.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Regarding "Planescape 2", I spoke with Feargus Urquhart last year in Paris,
> at a media event (his preemptive opening line at media events is "Let's
> answer the first question: when there will be a sequel to Torment?") and he
> said the problem basically is that Hasbro regarded the setting as the least
> "family friendly" among those inherited from TSR - thus no conversion for
> D&D 3ed, but only some books that allowed to the player to do the conversion
> by themselves (those that I now use for my D&D 3.5 campaign).

Who cares about its family friendliness? Who cares if it's an officially
supported D&D setting? Who even cares about the setting itself?

All I care about is that we get another game with such high quality
"familiy unfriendly" writing, with a brilliant "familiy unfriendly"
story in an engaging "familiy unfriendly" setting. It doesn't have to
be Planescape, it could be Vampire (let's face it, Bloodlines, while
great, is no where near Torment in this respect), it could be a
completely new setting in a game system completely unrelated to D&D.
I care about excellent writing in games.

> The only thing that worries me is the quality of writing. The script of the
> first game is so stellar that, even if given all the money in the world,
> nothing assures that the developers would be able to pull such monumental
> creative feat again.

Very true. This is another reason why I think it's a bad idea to try to
make a sequel. It's probably better (and safer) to make a completely
new, unrelated game in a different setting, just with a lot more focus
on story and dialogue than your average modern adventure game.

If I was a CRPG developer, I think I'd seriously consider hiring Joss
Whedon to develop the script for a new game. He knows how to tell
long, complex stories with tons of deep, engaging characters that you
learn to love, and he can tell that story with witty yet believable
dialogue. I think he'd be perfect for CRPG scripts.


mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
 >> Stay informed about: Planescape 2 

"mcv" <mcvmcv.TakeThisOut@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:47b953dc$0$14343$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>
> If I was a CRPG developer, I think I'd seriously consider hiring Joss
> Whedon to develop the script for a new game. He knows how to tell
> long, complex stories with tons of deep, engaging characters that you
> learn to love, and he can tell that story with witty yet believable
> dialogue. I think he'd be perfect for CRPG scripts.
>

I still don't understand why Whedon's 'firefly' universe was never
translated into a CRPG - it seemed like an established product just ripe for
further exploitation... but in a good way.

<grin>

--
MJB

Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/
 >> Stay informed about: Planescape 2 

In article <fpccv6011bh.RemoveThis@news4.newsguy.com>, MJB <mrtinj.RemoveThis@OLDsguy.com> wrote:
>"mcv" <mcvmcv.RemoveThis@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
>news:47b953dc$0$14343$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>>
>> If I was a CRPG developer, I think I'd seriously consider hiring Joss
>> Whedon to develop the script for a new game. He knows how to tell
>> long, complex stories with tons of deep, engaging characters that you
>> learn to love, and he can tell that story with witty yet believable
>> dialogue. I think he'd be perfect for CRPG scripts.
>
>I still don't understand why Whedon's 'firefly' universe was never
>translated into a CRPG - it seemed like an established product just ripe for
>further exploitation... but in a good way.

There is a pen-and-paper RPG property called 'Serenity' where you roll up
a ragtag party of characters who are the mismatched crew of a rickety
space-borne pirate ship. A persistent rumor comes up on the gaming
websites every few months or so that says this system is being adapted for
an MMO. Link:

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/12/08/firefly-returns-as-mmorpg/

Last I heard, this was licensed but no actual coding was ever completed. I
have no doubt that my information is far out of date at this point, so if
anybody knows better please feel free to pipe up.

-KKC, doing fun things with Sharepoint.
--
-- "Arabs are the new Asians, at least in media. Stereotypes gave way to
deeper roles over 40 years of assimilation into western culture. Bruce Lee
kicks ass, Jackie Chan gets laughs, B.D. Wong is a top. Arabs have | kendrick
had Klinger and Monk. Clearly, they have some catching up to do." | @io.com
 >> Stay informed about: Planescape 2 

David T. Bilek <davidbilek.TakeThisOut@att.net> wrote:
>The idea that Torment didn't sell well is widespread but not really
>correct. Torment sold 400,000 copies which is more than Fallout or
>Fallout 2, and those are considered great successes.

I think the bulk of the unit sales of Planescape: Torment came a while
after it was released and the price had dropped. Sales-wise, Fallout
and Fallout 2 were never considered great successes, but they didn't
sit on the shelves waiting for word of mouth to catch up with them.

>I think the reason people think it didn't sell well is because there
>was no sequel.

That, and I recall Interplay saying they were disappointed with it.
Maybe they did manage to make a profit on it in the end but there was
reason why a Planescape sequel was never even considered. Even if
the intelectual property rights for the game were still in Interplay's
hands, I don't see anyone paying the kind of money Bethesda paid for
the Fallout IP.

Ross Ridge

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge.TakeThisOut@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/
db //
 >> Stay informed about: Planescape 2 

Vincenzo Beretta wrote:
>> There are so many paper & dice people out there playing Planescape games
>> (search Ebay if you don't believe me) that there must be a market for
>> another release.
>
> This is so true ) I spent over $200 this Christmas on eBay to complete my
> collection of Planescape gemes, and I'm running a campaign that involves the
> setting since 1999 - when I discovered it playing Torment.
>
> Regarding "Planescape 2", I spoke with Feargus Urquhart last year in Paris,
> at a media event (his preemptive opening line at media events is "Let's
> answer the first question: when there will be a sequel to Torment?") and he
> said the problem basically is that Hasbro regarded the setting as the least
> "family friendly" among those inherited from TSR - thus no conversion for
> D&D 3ed, but only some books that allowed to the player to do the conversion
> by themselves (those that I now use for my D&D 3.5 campaign).
>
>> Yes I'd love the same dialogue based game, but it never sold very well did
>> it ?
>
> I think that, over the years, it sold its entire run - this is why now you
> have to go to eBay to find it.
>
> Regarding the table version for D&D, in 1999 my hobby shop has the four base
> Planescape boxes gatering dust in a corner. I bought them all for under $80,
> and then I collected all the supplements I could find, usually at "bargain
> bin" prices ranging from $5 to $ 15 (and I'm speaking about Italy, so
> originally their prices were inflated by import taxes, weak currency etc.).
> Confront these prices with what they ask for a suppement on eBay these days.
> I think that a new Planescape PC game would generate a lot of buzz.
>
> The only thing that worries me is the quality of writing. The script of the
> first game is so stellar that, even if given all the money in the world,
> nothing assures that the developers would be able to pull such monumental
> creative feat again.

Here's the only thing I'm aware of that might calm you PST grognards
down for a while:

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/12/planescape-trilogy-planned-for-nwn2/
(not sure why the main page is currently down)

--
Nostromo
 >> Stay informed about: Planescape 2