Pibbur says hello!

På Fri, 25 Jan 2008 19:17:13 +0100, skrev Ashikaga
<citizenashi.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>:

> Polychromic of the Cavern #8 howled:
>> I was wondering what he was doing these days (since he hasn't posted
>> since
>> November) and sent him an email. I guess he's feeling depressed again
>> but
>> he said to pass along his "hello" to the newsgroup so here it is.
>
> Yeah, somehow I feel I am responsible for his depression. I need to be
> more cheerful. Depression is a sensitive thing. When someone in the
> group
> is in a bad mood, it's easy to spread, especially to the one who has a
> history. Tell Pibbur I hope he recovers soon. We shall have a happy
> time
> together as a group. Give him a splut for me. Sugar is always
> good.
>
No, you're in no way responsible for my current episode of depression.
It's mainly a biological process, I will go in and out of depressive
episodes for as long as I live. It can't be stopped, but there is reason
to believe that my therapy and medication will make the episodes
eventually become lighter, and they won't happen as often.

This time I have been able to remain partially at work. On previous
occasions I've always needed some weeks on 100% sick leave. So things are
improving.

Thanks for the kind words. And hello to you all - good to be back.

--
Pibbur
 >> Stay informed about: Pibbur says hello! 

Pibbur of the Cavern #33 howled:
> skrev Ashikaga:
>> Polychromic of the Cavern #8 howled:
>>> I was wondering what he was doing these days (since he hasn't posted
>>> since
>>> November) and sent him an email. I guess he's feeling depressed again
>>> but
>>> he said to pass along his "hello" to the newsgroup so here it is.
>>
>> Yeah, somehow I feel I am responsible for his depression. I need to be
>> more cheerful. Depression is a sensitive thing. When someone in the
>> group
>> is in a bad mood, it's easy to spread, especially to the one who has a
>> history. Tell Pibbur I hope he recovers soon. We shall have a happy
>> time
>> together as a group. Give him a splut for me. Sugar is always
>> good.
>>
> No, you're in no way responsible for my current episode of depression.
> It's mainly a biological process, I will go in and out of depressive
> episodes for as long as I live. It can't be stopped, but there is reason
> to believe that my therapy and medication will make the episodes
> eventually become lighter, and they won't happen as often.
>
> This time I have been able to remain partially at work. On previous
> occasions I've always needed some weeks on 100% sick leave. So things are
> improving.
>
> Thanks for the kind words. And hello to you all - good to be back.

It's very nice you are back! Having friends around having good
conversation will keep depression coming back or at least alleviate it.
It's nice to know you are feeling better. You still have Pascal right? I
had a dream about someone's cat who was antagonistic to me.... It was a
snobbish lady's cat.... Probably too much The Devil Wears Prada for me
(since that woman had that Merryl Streep's character). That was
off-tangent....

--
Ashikaga -a29
 >> Stay informed about: Pibbur says hello! 

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:29:03 -0800, Ashikaga <citizenashi.DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Pibbur of the Cavern #33 howled:
>> skrev Ashikaga:
>>> Polychromic of the Cavern #8 howled:
>>>> I was wondering what he was doing these days (since he hasn't posted
>>>> since
>>>> November) and sent him an email. I guess he's feeling depressed again
>>>> but
>>>> he said to pass along his "hello" to the newsgroup so here it is.

He's here, he's here! <pointing down>

>>>
>> No, you're in no way responsible for my current episode of depression.
>> It's mainly a biological process, I will go in and out of depressive
>> episodes for as long as I live. It can't be stopped, but there is reason
>> to believe that my therapy and medication will make the episodes
>> eventually become lighter, and they won't happen as often.
>>
>> This time I have been able to remain partially at work. On previous
>> occasions I've always needed some weeks on 100% sick leave. So things are
>> improving.

That sounds like a real interference. Any of my "depression" has been
event-related, which some people would yell at me for even calling
depression. (I know one person who has a fit if you used that word
outside of a 'clinical, biological' sort of meaning. So I'm not quite
sure I know what she expects me to call it.)

But... I do have anxiety problems, which can be closely related. I
absolutely hate pills. I actually about cried the first time I had to
take one of my high blood pressure pills cause I knew I'd probably be
on them the rest of my life, and I really, really do hate pills.
(Well, I don't hate vitamins and herbs and such, nor do I hate
temporary things like anti-biotics, though I had to do steroids for 10
days once, which give me the willies.) So the idea of actually taking
a pill for anxiety just totally went against my grain. That's what I
call "psycho-drugs." But I'd had problems for years and not
recognized it, so by time we discovered it, it was pretty well out of
hand, and none of the therapy stuff really ever worked that well. So
I'm stuck on medication and basically have zero life without it.
Which really annoys me. But it did take something like that to make
me realize I can't avoid pills the rest of my life and am going to
just have to learn to deal with it.

>>
>> Thanks for the kind words. And hello to you all - good to be back.
>
>It's very nice you are back! Having friends around having good
>conversation will keep depression coming back or at least alleviate it.

Hmm, Ashi. You obviously don't get it. If it was that simple, don't
you think he'd just hang around friends a lot instead of having to
take weeks off work? Hello!

OK, so I just answered three different people in one post.
--

Erimess Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-

d++e+NT++Om UK!1!2!3!A!L!
U+uCuFuG+++uLB+uA+ nC+nH+nP+nS++nT-xa5

Never compare yourself to the best others can do,
but rather to the best you can do.
 >> Stay informed about: Pibbur says hello! 

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 04:42:23 +0100, Pibbur
<oopsREM.OVE512.DeleteThis@tele2capi.talsno> wrote:

>På Wed, 30 Jan 2008 02:05:05 +0100, skrev Ashikaga
><citizenashi.DeleteThis@hotmail.com>:
>
>> erimess of the Cavern #68 howled:
>>> Ashikaga wrote:
>>>> Pibbur of the Cavern #33 howled:
>> <snip>
>>>>> No, you're in no way responsible for my current episode of depression.
>>>>> It's mainly a biological process, I will go in and out of depressive
>>>>> episodes for as long as I live. It can't be stopped, but there is
>>>>> reason
>>>>> to believe that my therapy and medication will make the episodes
>>>>> eventually become lighter, and they won't happen as often.
>>>>>
>>>>> This time I have been able to remain partially at work. On previous
>>>>> occasions I've always needed some weeks on 100% sick leave. So things
>>>>> are
>>>>> improving.
>>>
>>> That sounds like a real interference. Any of my "depression" has been
>>> event-related, which some people would yell at me for even calling
>>> depression. (I know one person who has a fit if you used that word
>>> outside of a 'clinical, biological' sort of meaning. So I'm not quite
>>> sure I know what she expects me to call it.)
>>
>> That's because a real depression is supposed to be non-event related
>
>Sorry Ashi, but this is plainly wrong. We used to divide depressions into
>two groups: Endogenic depressions which essentially were an all-internal
>process, unrelated to external events, and exogenic depressions where the
>main cuase were just that, real life events.
>
>The division between those two groups are not as clear as we thought, so
>the terms are not used anymore. Still there are depressions where external
>events are the main contributing factor, and depressions which are mainly
>biology related. Recurring depressiions usually indicate a significant
>biological component.

Interesting. I think the person who got upset that I called what I
was feeling depression was, um, probably being defensive. She's
manic-depressive, and think so much of her life is surrounded in that,
that perhaps she may be too sensitive to the difference between
getting depressed "over something" and what she's calling her clinical
depression. Or, she was just getting nonsense jibberish from her
psychologist.

I tend to take things very hard, so when I do get depressed from
something, it's pretty bad. But I'm also extremely sensitive (if you
hadn't noticed ). I get over it. Though at one point there were
just so many things happening too close together that I did wonder if
would get over it. That was before any of you even knew me.

>>
>
>Of course some patients with depression may unload their anger externally.
>It depends on personality and it depends on the degree of depression. And
>it depends on what he/she has learned in for instance therapy.
>
>As for the manic condition, here are a few of the cardinal symptoms (the
>set of symptoms will differ from patient to patient)
>- Elevated mood - some of them can be reallty joyful
>- Elevated level of activity - life moves very fast

Of course life moves very fast. It gets faster every year I get
older.

>- Loss of critical sense - "I'm going to be a famous musician, so I need a
>piano on every floor"
>
>As for agression, some are overly agressive, some are not. There's a
>huuuge difference between normal agression/frustration and a manic state.
>And among the angry ones, only a very small minority may be dangerous,
>entertaining thougts of murder, and in that case it would be directed at
>specific persons, not "everyone".

Er... there's manic people entertaining thoughts of murder? I've only
known two manic-depressive people and neither were like that. In
fact, I never really saw much of their manic states. I do hope it
really is a small minority.

>
>NOTHING in Erimess's behaviour here, NOTHING of what she has written
>justifies suggesting that she may be in a manic state. Whether she in
>reality epxperienc manic episodes I can't say, of course, but she doesn't
>show any sign of that here. Period!

Thank you. Obviously you haven't seen everything of me, but you know
I have a temper, and that I'm also silly at the same time. I'm moody,
but only cause I'm a Gemini. (It's not my fault.) I admit that I can
get pretty hyper, but nothing I'd call manic. I'm not even sure what
manic is, but my brother does (who is not afraid to tell me anything),
and none of the councelors I've been to ever said a word about it.

And why am I sitting here defending myself?

Now, the weather we're having out there -- I'd call it pretty manic.
I'm waiting for one the of windows on the back porch to break. Sounds
like the wicked witch of the West came back to life and is having her
revenge.
--

Erimess Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-

d++e+NT++Om UK!1!2!3!A!L!
U+uCuFuG+++uLB+uA+ nC+nH+nP+nS++nT-xa5

Never compare yourself to the best others can do,
but rather to the best you can do.
 >> Stay informed about: Pibbur says hello! 

På Wed, 30 Jan 2008 02:05:05 +0100, skrev Ashikaga
<citizenashi.DeleteThis@hotmail.com>:

> erimess of the Cavern #68 howled:
>> Ashikaga wrote:
>>> Pibbur of the Cavern #33 howled:
> <snip>
>>>> No, you're in no way responsible for my current episode of depression.
>>>> It's mainly a biological process, I will go in and out of depressive
>>>> episodes for as long as I live. It can't be stopped, but there is
>>>> reason
>>>> to believe that my therapy and medication will make the episodes
>>>> eventually become lighter, and they won't happen as often.
>>>>
>>>> This time I have been able to remain partially at work. On previous
>>>> occasions I've always needed some weeks on 100% sick leave. So things
>>>> are
>>>> improving.
>>
>> That sounds like a real interference. Any of my "depression" has been
>> event-related, which some people would yell at me for even calling
>> depression. (I know one person who has a fit if you used that word
>> outside of a 'clinical, biological' sort of meaning. So I'm not quite
>> sure I know what she expects me to call it.)
>
> That's because a real depression is supposed to be non-event related

Sorry Ashi, but this is plainly wrong. We used to divide depressions into
two groups: Endogenic depressions which essentially were an all-internal
process, unrelated to external events, and exogenic depressions where the
main cuase were just that, real life events.

The division between those two groups are not as clear as we thought, so
the terms are not used anymore. Still there are depressions where external
events are the main contributing factor, and depressions which are mainly
biology related. Recurring depressiions usually indicate a significant
biological component.

> (and
> it must last for some indefinite prolonged period of time).

Correct.

> An event can
> trigger it or exacerbate it. Since a lot of people calling a mood swing
> a
> depression, so maybe that's why they yelled at you. Were you constantly
> suicidal without reason (or any reason would give you an excuse to commit
> suicide)?
....

> BTW, did your therapist talk to you about bipolar (manic/depression)? I
> don't think you are in depression stage, but in manic stage, because
> people
> who can still unload their temper externally can't be in depression.
> (I'm
> not putting you down, but want you to rethink about your diagnosis).
>
> Manic is like Goth. Depression is like emo. One wants to kill
> everyone (but totally don't know/remember why it's wrong), the other
> wants
> to kill himself (and totally clueless as for why either). Yeah,
> obviously
> I don't get it..., because I am no longer in that trap.
>

Of course some patients with depression may unload their anger externally.
It depends on personality and it depends on the degree of depression. And
it depends on what he/she has learned in for instance therapy.

As for the manic condition, here are a few of the cardinal symptoms (the
set of symptoms will differ from patient to patient)
- Elevated mood - some of them can be reallty joyful
- Elevated level of activity - life moves very fast
- Loss of critical sense - "I'm going to be a famous musician, so I need a
piano on every floor"

As for agression, some are overly agressive, some are not. There's a
huuuge difference between normal agression/frustration and a manic state.
And among the angry ones, only a very small minority may be dangerous,
entertaining thougts of murder, and in that case it would be directed at
specific persons, not "everyone".

As for "not knowing that it's wrong" - that would indicate being in a
psychotic state. Some are, some are not - it has nothing to do with mania
per se. Same goes for depressions - some are psychotic, most are not.

NOTHING in Erimess's behaviour here, NOTHING of what she has written
justifies suggesting that she may be in a manic state. Whether she in
reality epxperienc manic episodes I can't say, of course, but she doesn't
show any sign of that here. Period!

> Anyways, watch Thumbsucker. I highly recommend it.
>
> Anyways, happier things.... Cats help A LOT on high-blood pressure.
>

--
Pibbur
 >> Stay informed about: Pibbur says hello! 

På Wed, 30 Jan 2008 07:50:46 +0100, skrev <erimess>:

> On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 04:42:23 +0100, Pibbur
> <oopsREM.OVE512.DeleteThis@tele2capi.talsno> wrote:
>
>> På Wed, 30 Jan 2008 02:05:05 +0100, skrev Ashikaga
>> <citizenashi.DeleteThis@hotmail.com>:
>>
>>> erimess of the Cavern #68 howled:
>>>> Ashikaga wrote:
>>>>> Pibbur of the Cavern #33 howled:
>>> <snip>
>>>>>> No, you're in no way responsible for my current episode of
>>>>>> depression.
>>>>>> It's mainly a biological process, I will go in and out of
>>>>>> depressive
>>>>>> episodes for as long as I live. It can't be stopped, but there is
>>>>>> reason
>>>>>> to believe that my therapy and medication will make the episodes
>>>>>> eventually become lighter, and they won't happen as often.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This time I have been able to remain partially at work. On previous
>>>>>> occasions I've always needed some weeks on 100% sick leave. So
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> improving.
>>>>
>>>> That sounds like a real interference. Any of my "depression" has been
>>>> event-related, which some people would yell at me for even calling
>>>> depression. (I know one person who has a fit if you used that word
>>>> outside of a 'clinical, biological' sort of meaning. So I'm not quite
>>>> sure I know what she expects me to call it.)
>>>
>>> That's because a real depression is supposed to be non-event related
>>
>> Sorry Ashi, but this is plainly wrong. We used to divide depressions
>> into
>> two groups: Endogenic depressions which essentially were an all-internal
>> process, unrelated to external events, and exogenic depressions where
>> the
>> main cuase were just that, real life events.
>>
>> The division between those two groups are not as clear as we thought, so
>> the terms are not used anymore. Still there are depressions where
>> external
>> events are the main contributing factor, and depressions which are
>> mainly
>> biology related. Recurring depressiions usually indicate a significant
>> biological component.
>
> Interesting. I think the person who got upset that I called what I
> was feeling depression was, um, probably being defensive.

I think you are right. I too can become defensive. For instance in Norway
antidepressants are in the news usually referred to as "happy pills". That
really pisses me off. These drugs don't make me happy, in fact I'm very
rarely happy. But they make me a little less sad. And they remove suicidal
thoughts (although I've never been really suicidal). And they make it
possible for me to go to work when I'm down.

They are not an easy way to happiness.

So, if you want semi-angry posts from Pibbur, just mentiond the word
"Happy pills". I'm predictable that way. Another piece of ... oh, sorry.

> She's
> manic-depressive, and think so much of her life is surrounded in that,
> that perhaps she may be too sensitive to the difference between
> getting depressed "over something" and what she's calling her clinical
> depression. Or, she was just getting nonsense jibberish from her
> psychologist.
>
> I tend to take things very hard, so when I do get depressed from
> something, it's pretty bad. But I'm also extremely sensitive (if you
> hadn't noticed ). I get over it. Though at one point there were
> just so many things happening too close together that I did wonder if
> would get over it. That was before any of you even knew me.
>

I have noticed that you have have more temper than I have (correct
english?). And I've noticed that you are sensitive. But I've also noticed
that you are very good at verbalizing your feelings (at least that's how
it seems to me). But, for what it's worth, I've never had the
thought/feeling that "that Erimess surely is weird". Never.

>>>
>>
>> Of course some patients with depression may unload their anger
>> externally.
>> It depends on personality and it depends on the degree of depression.
>> And
>> it depends on what he/she has learned in for instance therapy.
>>
>> As for the manic condition, here are a few of the cardinal symptoms (the
>> set of symptoms will differ from patient to patient)
>> - Elevated mood - some of them can be reallty joyful
>> - Elevated level of activity - life moves very fast
>
> Of course life moves very fast. It gets faster every year I get
> older.

Here's an example from my Psychiatry book:

A man in his fifties was in a clothing shop. He wanted to buy 50 shirts.
He spoke very fast, and often in rhymes. When the clothes-selling-people
asked him if he really should buy that many shirts, he got angry and
thrashed the counter.

>
>> - Loss of critical sense - "I'm going to be a famous musician, so I
>> need a
>> piano on every floor"
>>
>> As for agression, some are overly agressive, some are not. There's a
>> huuuge difference between normal agression/frustration and a manic
>> state.
>> And among the angry ones, only a very small minority may be dangerous,
>> entertaining thougts of murder, and in that case it would be directed at
>> specific persons, not "everyone".
>
> Er... there's manic people entertaining thoughts of murder? I've only
> known two manic-depressive people and neither were like that. In
> fact, I never really saw much of their manic states. I do hope it
> really is a small minority.
>

Sorry, I was a bit imprecise here. What I meant to say is that some manic
people may become violent if they feel they are being obstructed. And some
of those may be dangerous. AFAIK they do not contemplate a revenge against
society, or going on a killing spree. Not because of their mania at least.

>>
>> NOTHING in Erimess's behaviour here, NOTHING of what she has written
>> justifies suggesting that she may be in a manic state. Whether she in
>> reality epxperienc manic episodes I can't say, of course, but she
>> doesn't
>> show any sign of that here. Period!
>
> Thank you. Obviously you haven't seen everything of me, but you know
> I have a temper, and that I'm also silly at the same time. I'm moody,
> but only cause I'm a Gemini. (It's not my fault.) I admit that I can
> get pretty hyper, but nothing I'd call manic. I'm not even sure what
> manic is, but my brother does (who is not afraid to tell me anything),
> and none of the councelors I've been to ever said a word about it.
>

I don't believe in astrology, that's because I'm a Capricorn.

> And why am I sitting here defending myself?
>

You don't have to defend yourself against me, I don't suppose you were.

I have no doubt that Ashi had the best intentions behind what he said,
still I find it ill adviced, and it's no surprise to me if you got angry
because of it. I got a bit angry, even though the statements were (I
think) not directed at me.

> Now, the weather we're having out there -- I'd call it pretty manic.
> I'm waiting for one the of windows on the back porch to break. Sounds
> like the wicked witch of the West came back to life and is having her
> revenge.

You know of course already that I am a bit crazy. I'm playing Morrowind at
the moment. And I've found how I can configure the game so that there's
rain and storm everywhere and always. Yay!!!
--
Pibbur, the ashlander
 >> Stay informed about: Pibbur says hello! 

Pibbur of the Cavern #168 howled:
> skrev <erimess>:
>> Pibbur skrev:
<snip>
>>> NOTHING in Erimess's behaviour here, NOTHING of what she has written
>>> justifies suggesting that she may be in a manic state. Whether she in
>>> reality epxperienc manic episodes I can't say, of course, but she
>>> doesn't
>>> show any sign of that here. Period!
>>
>> Thank you. Obviously you haven't seen everything of me, but you know
>> I have a temper, and that I'm also silly at the same time. I'm moody,
>> but only cause I'm a Gemini. (It's not my fault.) I admit that I can
>> get pretty hyper, but nothing I'd call manic. I'm not even sure what
>> manic is, but my brother does (who is not afraid to tell me anything),
>> and none of the councelors I've been to ever said a word about it.

You are a Gemini? That totally explains your radical judgement of people
(i.e., either love them or hate them). I am a Taurus, so forgive my
stubbornness.

> I don't believe in astrology, that's because I'm a Capricorn.

I don't believe it wholely either, but it's nice to have something as a
reference to correct one's shortcoming. I am trying to be less stubborn as
a grow older.

>> And why am I sitting here defending myself?
>
> You don't have to defend yourself against me, I don't suppose you were.
>
> I have no doubt that Ashi had the best intentions behind what he said,
> still I find it ill adviced, and it's no surprise to me if you got angry
> because of it. I got a bit angry, even though the statements were (I
> think) not directed at me.

No, it was not directed at you. It was directed at erimess, but I don't
want to say that because I noticed she can be a little sensitive and get
very personal about it. You must be wondering why it's directed at her and
yet I'm expecting her not to take it personally..., but it actually makes
sense. I was talking about manic depression in an academic manner (though
perhaps ill-adviced, but that's what I got out of it after I read many
articles about it without any actual professionals to interpret it for me).
I was not suggesting everything I described must be her. I was suggesting
to erimess a second opinion may be a possibility. I have absolutely no
ill-intend but perhaps a very great concern for her that's gone way too
passionate (because it's a personal issue /for me/).

I am very unhappy about how some people are ill-diagnosed with depression
or other illness, so I want to give erimess a thought that maybe she is
perfectly normal and needs no treatment. My father is on anti-depressant
and he is totally normal, or at least his symptom is almost trivial when
compared with me at my worst time). I can totally understand it when
erimess said once she is on the high blood pressure drug, there is no going
back. And I really wish people don't take "the pill" so casually as if
it's the panacea for depression. That's why I suggest Thumbsucker to watch
(it's a film about a drug on ADD and substance abuse), because I know I am
not always the best authority, so I need to refer to another source to back
my comment.

--
Ashikaga -a29
 >> Stay informed about: Pibbur says hello! 

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:23:00 +0100, Pibbur
<oopsREM.OVE512 RemoveThis @tele2capi.talsno> wrote:

>As I've said - I have no doubt that your intentions are good. I think that
>you are basically a nice person - I have for instance always appreciated
>you wishing me welcome back whenever I've returned after being away for
>some time. But when you're saying things like you've done here - if it has
>any consequence at all, in my eyes you may easily do harm in stead of good.

Wait, someone here has been taking Ashi seriously? Isn't that against the
charter? I thought the fact that he makes broad generalizations based on
little or no information was one of his defining characteristics. Well,
it's easy to love folly in a child.
--
The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
Webpage http://macecil.googlepages.com/index.htm
RGCUD Dragon Gallery http://home.roadrunner.com/~rgcud/
Chuck Norris: Afraid of NOTHING, except John McCain's 95 year-old mother.
 >> Stay informed about: Pibbur says hello! 

På Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:44:25 +0100, skrev Ashikaga
<citizenashi.DeleteThis@hotmail.com>:

> Pibbur of the Cavern #168 howled:
>> skrev <erimess>:
>>> Pibbur skrev:
> <snip>
>>>> NOTHING in Erimess's behaviour here, NOTHING of what she has written
>>>> justifies suggesting that she may be in a manic state. Whether she in
>>>> reality epxperienc manic episodes I can't say, of course, but she
>>>> doesn't
>>>> show any sign of that here. Period!
>>>
>>> Thank you. Obviously you haven't seen everything of me, but you know
>>> I have a temper, and that I'm also silly at the same time. I'm moody,
>>> but only cause I'm a Gemini. (It's not my fault.) I admit that I can
>>> get pretty hyper, but nothing I'd call manic. I'm not even sure what
>>> manic is, but my brother does (who is not afraid to tell me anything),
>>> and none of the councelors I've been to ever said a word about it.
>
> You are a Gemini? That totally explains your radical judgement of people
> (i.e., either love them or hate them). I am a Taurus, so forgive my
> stubbornness.
>
>> I don't believe in astrology, that's because I'm a Capricorn.
>
> I don't believe it wholely either, but it's nice to have something as a
> reference to correct one's shortcoming. I am trying to be less stubborn
> as
> a grow older.
>
>>> And why am I sitting here defending myself?
>>
>> You don't have to defend yourself against me, I don't suppose you were.
>>
>> I have no doubt that Ashi had the best intentions behind what he said,
>> still I find it ill adviced, and it's no surprise to me if you got angry
>> because of it. I got a bit angry, even though the statements were (I
>> think) not directed at me.
>
> No, it was not directed at you. It was directed at erimess, but I don't
> want to say that because I noticed she can be a little sensitive and get
> very personal about it. You must be wondering why it's directed at her
> and
> yet I'm expecting her not to take it personally..., but it actually makes
> sense. I was talking about manic depression in an academic manner
> (though
> perhaps ill-adviced, but that's what I got out of it after I read many
> articles about it without any actual professionals to interpret it for
> me).
> I was not suggesting everything I described must be her. I was
> suggesting
> to erimess a second opinion may be a possibility. I have absolutely no
> ill-intend but perhaps a very great concern for her that's gone way too
> passionate (because it's a personal issue /for me/).
>
> I am very unhappy about how some people are ill-diagnosed with depression
> or other illness, so I want to give erimess a thought that maybe she is
> perfectly normal and needs no treatment. My father is on anti-depressant
> and he is totally normal, or at least his symptom is almost trivial when
> compared with me at my worst time). I can totally understand it when
> erimess said once she is on the high blood pressure drug, there is no
> going
> back. And I really wish people don't take "the pill" so casually as if
> it's the panacea for depression. That's why I suggest Thumbsucker to
> watch
> (it's a film about a drug on ADD and substance abuse), because I know I
> am
> not always the best authority, so I need to refer to another source to
> back
> my comment.
>
I'm replying to you because you responded to me. My purpose is not to
defend Erimess - she is fully able to defend herself. But you touch upon
issues which are principally important.

This is what you wrote: "I don't think you are in depression stage, but in
manic stage, because people
who can still unload their temper externally can't be in depression."

Let's for now ignore that the second part of your statement is wrong. But,
you explicitely say you think she is manic. Despite your good intentions,
this was in my opinion a rotten thing to do. Except in the most trivial
cases, I would never suggest a diagnosis (or suggest that a given
diagnosis was wrong) to anyone, unless asked, and had access to all
relevant information. I would especially not do that on an open newsgroup,
unless I was given explicit permission. And contrary to you, I am
qualified to do this.

Based upon what you have written now, and on previous occasions, it seems
to me that you know very little about psychiatry. You have your personal
experiences, you've probably learnt something from those. You have read a
few articles (but as I interprete it without really understanding them,
due to lack of professional guidance). But in the end, the "knowledge" you
present here is insufficient, inaccurate and in many cases plainly wrong.
You're knowledge is probably not less than the average person - but afaik,
the average person usually don't try to play a psychiatrist/psychologist.
You put on shoes which are far too big for you.

As I've said - I have no doubt that your intentions are good. I think that
you are basically a nice person - I have for instance always appreciated
you wishing me welcome back whenever I've returned after being away for
some time. But when you're saying things like you've done here - if it has
any consequence at all, in my eyes you may easily do harm in stead of good.

--
dr Pibbur
 >> Stay informed about: Pibbur says hello! 

Pibbur of the Cavern #107 howled:
<snip>
> I'm replying to you because you responded to me. My purpose is not to
> defend Erimess - she is fully able to defend herself. But you touch upon
> issues which are principally important.
>
> This is what you wrote: "I don't think you are in depression stage, but in
> manic stage, because people
> who can still unload their temper externally can't be in depression."
>
> Let's for now ignore that the second part of your statement is wrong. But,
> you explicitely say you think she is manic. Despite your good intentions,
> this was in my opinion a rotten thing to do. Except in the most trivial
> cases, I would never suggest a diagnosis (or suggest that a given
> diagnosis was wrong) to anyone, unless asked, and had access to all
> relevant information. I would especially not do that on an open newsgroup,
> unless I was given explicit permission. And contrary to you, I am
> qualified to do this.
>
> Based upon what you have written now, and on previous occasions, it seems
> to me that you know very little about psychiatry. You have your personal
> experiences, you've probably learnt something from those. You have read a
> few articles (but as I interprete it without really understanding them,
> due to lack of professional guidance). But in the end, the "knowledge" you
> present here is insufficient, inaccurate and in many cases plainly wrong.
> You're knowledge is probably not less than the average person - but afaik,
> the average person usually don't try to play a psychiatrist/psychologist.
> You put on shoes which are far too big for you.
>
> As I've said - I have no doubt that your intentions are good. I think that
> you are basically a nice person - I have for instance always appreciated
> you wishing me welcome back whenever I've returned after being away for
> some time. But when you're saying things like you've done here - if it has
> any consequence at all, in my eyes you may easily do harm in stead of good.

I'll try to refrain from playing a psychiatrist from now on. Yes, it's not
something I should be doing.

--
Ashikaga -a29
 >> Stay informed about: Pibbur says hello! 

Polychromic of the Cavern #18 howled:
> Pibbur wrote:
>
>>As I've said - I have no doubt that your intentions are good. I think that
>>you are basically a nice person - I have for instance always appreciated
>>you wishing me welcome back whenever I've returned after being away for
>>some time. But when you're saying things like you've done here - if it has
>>any consequence at all, in my eyes you may easily do harm in stead of good.
>
> Wait, someone here has been taking Ashi seriously? Isn't that against the
> charter? I thought the fact that he makes broad generalizations based on
> little or no information was one of his defining characteristics. Well,
> it's easy to love folly in a child.

HEY! That's not nice. What do you mean by base on "little or no"
information? Usually you need to know something to make a fool out of
oneself because of over-confidence. :-p Anyways, I am classically trained
(in term of research and support of statements). It's just that I am a
little lazy to look it up to reconfirm some of my information (not about
this particular subject, but on various stuff in general), and my brain has
been unreliable..., which you guys have all been observing.

In any case, take my words with a grain of salt.... (*throws some salt on
Poly*)

Anyways, Pibbur's last words of the above paragraph remind me of a quote.
The most serious harm are often well-intended. Anyways, next time warn me
if I get carried away. A friend did a funny fortune-telling skit on me and
said I am like her, we make decision with our hearts rather than our minds.
I guess it's true.

Anyways, back to Poly. Next time tell me /why/ I am dumb rather than just
state the fact I'm dumb. :-p

--
Ashikaga -a29
 >> Stay informed about: Pibbur says hello! 

På Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:04:43 +0100, skrev Ashikaga
<citizenashi.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>:

> Pibbur of the Cavern #107 howled:
> <snip>
>> I'm replying to you because you responded to me. My purpose is not to
>> defend Erimess - she is fully able to defend herself. But you touch upon
>> issues which are principally important.
>>
>> This is what you wrote: "I don't think you are in depression stage, but
>> in
>> manic stage, because people
>> who can still unload their temper externally can't be in depression."
>>
>> Let's for now ignore that the second part of your statement is wrong.
>> But,
>> you explicitely say you think she is manic. Despite your good
>> intentions,
>> this was in my opinion a rotten thing to do. Except in the most trivial
>> cases, I would never suggest a diagnosis (or suggest that a given
>> diagnosis was wrong) to anyone, unless asked, and had access to all
>> relevant information. I would especially not do that on an open
>> newsgroup,
>> unless I was given explicit permission. And contrary to you, I am
>> qualified to do this.
>>
>> Based upon what you have written now, and on previous occasions, it
>> seems
>> to me that you know very little about psychiatry. You have your personal
>> experiences, you've probably learnt something from those. You have read
>> a
>> few articles (but as I interprete it without really understanding them,
>> due to lack of professional guidance). But in the end, the "knowledge"
>> you
>> present here is insufficient, inaccurate and in many cases plainly
>> wrong.
>> You're knowledge is probably not less than the average person - but
>> afaik,
>> the average person usually don't try to play a
>> psychiatrist/psychologist.
>> You put on shoes which are far too big for you.
>>
>> As I've said - I have no doubt that your intentions are good. I think
>> that
>> you are basically a nice person - I have for instance always appreciated
>> you wishing me welcome back whenever I've returned after being away for
>> some time. But when you're saying things like you've done here - if it
>> has
>> any consequence at all, in my eyes you may easily do harm in stead of
>> good.
>
> I'll try to refrain from playing a psychiatrist from now on. Yes, it's
> not
> something I should be doing.
>
Good. That's a mature way of handling it!

--
Pibbur
 >> Stay informed about: Pibbur says hello! 

Pibbur of the Cavern #59 howled:
> skrev Ashikaga:
<snip>
>> I'll try to refrain from playing a psychiatrist from now on. Yes, it's
>> not something I should be doing.
>>
> Good. That's a mature way of handling it!

That's because you point my flaw out nicely. Actually I've watched a
TV program about the subject, but it's easy to forget what's the right
thing to do in the mid of things.... It's very nice of you to put me back
in the right track, and treat me like an adult.

--
Ashikaga -a29
 >> Stay informed about: Pibbur says hello!