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Since: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 3128
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:17 am
Post subject: Re: So what? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>comp>periphs>videocards>ati, others (more info?)
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"Tomcat (Tom)" <tom_dallas31.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1167377354.642699.310850@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
>
> GT-Force wrote:
>> > Did you mean the 360 was trailing???
>> > http://www.playfuls.com:80/news_05653_Wii_No_1_PS3_No_2_Xbox_360_No3_i...re_Chri
>>
>> I'm sure he meant the "overall" sales. Since 360 was out for a long time,
>> others need time to catch up. The link you provided shows ONLY
>> pre-christmas
>> sale numbers, not the TOTAL number of units sold so far.
>
> Also, if I'm reading the article right, it looks like it's only
> Japanese sales that are being reported. Everybody knows sales in Japan
> for the Wii and PS3, especially sales shortly after launch, are going
> to be much higher than the 360.
>
Yes, that is correct, Branden posted an article regarding Japanese sales
only. I don't think he realized what the data demographics were. But, if the
PS3 got as many to the shelves before Xmas as reported, then they will have
out sold the 360 during its first two months by a very good figure. Now,
that isn't saying much because MS had big trouble producing them enough to
keep up for almost the first 4 months. Sony looks like it may be doing
better at getting the production up for the same period. |
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Since: Dec 03, 2006
Posts: 59
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:20 am
Post subject: Re: So what? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:33 am
Post subject: Re: PS3-X360 developer spills his experience: ATI Xenos GPU in X360 is superior to Nvidia RSX in PS3 for graphics rendering [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> You're an idot. This is over 6 months old from that lazy programmer.
> This has been known for over a year. He mentions to use the SPU but
> he's too lazy. He talks about other workarounds, but he's too lazy.
> It's one thing to be an idiot like AirRaid, it's another to be an
> idot fanboy.
And I guess you are lazy to erase some text when you reply?
--
Ne postoji nešto što ne postoji. (Bare) >> Stay informed about: PS3-X360 developer spills his experience: ATI Xenos GPU in.. |
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External
Since: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 484
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:54 am
Post subject: Re: So what? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Android wrote:
> The relative power of a video game system has *never* been the determining
> factor for sales during the past 30 years of gaming.
I agree that it hasn't been the determining factor. However, the 360
also has a current sales lead, cheaper price point and better games at
the moment. Sony is losing exclusives fast and the major 'system
sellers' (Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy) are all still
some way off. They definitely still have the image lead with the average
man in the street.....but I'm not sure they're going to be buying a PS3
until the price drops. >> Stay informed about: PS3-X360 developer spills his experience: ATI Xenos GPU in.. |
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Since: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 484
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:22 am
Post subject: Re: So what? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 484
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:23 am
Post subject: Re: PS3-X360 developer spills his experience: ATI Xenos GPU in X360 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Roller wrote:
> "AirRaid Mach 2.5" <AirRaid1500 DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1167345663.950171.77830@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37033
>>
>> QUOTE:
>>
>> "I'm a programmer I assure you, been one for 12 years in the games
>> industry. No, I can't say my employers name because my comments could
>> be construed as representing their opinion, which would get me into
>> trouble."
>>
>>
>>
>> "There are *very* few instances where one would pick the PS3 gpu over
>> the 360's because the PS3's gpu is weak compared to 360's. That's not
>> just my opinion, ask other devs how they feel about it. Sony chose
>> poorly when they chose the video hardware. Performance wise, the 360's
>> video will out render the PS3's everytime if you feed it the same 3d
>> scene. The only way to make the PS3 keep pace is to leverage its spu's
>> to preprocess your 3d scene."
>>
>>
>> "I have a shader that needs 8 vertex inputs, Position, Normal, Color,
>> and Texcoord1 thru Texcoord5. Assume all inputs are packed (ie, .x, .y,
>> .z and .w are all used). Further, I need this shader to be applied to a
>> mass of 100 enemies that are all close to the camera (and hence using
>> their best lod) and are 5000 verticies each. Or if you prefer, imagine
>> that it needs to be used on a 3d scene of 500,000 verts. These
>> scenarios are quite common, and they *kill* RSX performance. If you
>> don't believe me, just read the RSX docs, its right in there and it
>> literally says "this kills RSX performance". The only way to
>> accommodate these scenarios is to precull using the spu's. If you just
>> rely on the RSX to do it for you, then you will never match the xenon's
>> framerate, period. This isn't conjecture or opinion, its hardware
>> design fact. Again, I encourage you to read the RSX docs as well as PS3
>> dev forums, I'm not the only one complaining about this."
>>
>>
>> "I'm a 360/PS3 programmer by trade, focusing on graphics and
>> optimization. It's fairly rare that I post, but I just got off a long
>> crunch and have been browsing the forums more than normal to unwind
>> Incidentally most of that crunch was spent trying to get the PS3 to
>> match the 360's frame rate. It falls short, but it hits 30fps so we're
>> ok.
>>
>> The Gran Turismo image posted above is a good shot, but its a testament
>> to the talent of the dev crew, not just the hardware. Vertex/pixel
>> shaders are written in HLSL and can be compiled to run on either
>> PS3/360 although you can tweak them to suit the console. I guess my
>> point here is that if you take that same vehicle 3d model and those
>> same shaders that make it look all pretty, and compile/run them on the
>> 360, it will look the same and run at a higher framerate than on the
>> PS3. This is because the PS3's gpu isn't as good as the 360's."
>>
>>
>> "I'm assuming you also know that the PS3's vertex processing units are
>> terrible, since each extra vertex shader input ads one cycle of delay.
>> Likewise, you probably also know that the only way currently around
>> this limitation on PS3 is to use the spu's to preprocess all geometry
>> by backface culling them first on cell before feeding them to the gpu.
>> But then you are still stuck with other PS3 gpu limitations, such as
>> not being able to do anti aliasing with floating point render targets
>> so you can't have MSAA and HDR simultaneously."
>>
>> "The vertex pipeline doesn't matter when you have to waste one cycle
>> per vertex input. In other words, the gpu stalls untill it can fetch
>> all the data it needs before it can even start executing the vertex
>> shader. Why is this important? Because next gen games needs lots of
>> lookup maps to look nice, which means lots of u/v coordinates and other
>> data that needs to be passed to the vertex shader, ie, lots of inputs.
>> In RSX's case, that means gpu stalls. This is the RSX's well known
>> achiles heel and is well documented. The only known work around at the
>> moment is to use the cell spu's as another 'gpu', in this case a
>> culling gpu, to limit the number of verts actually sent to the RSX.
>> Whether or not RSX+SPU culling will help PS3 meet or exceed xenon's gpu
>> performance isn't known at this point."
>>
>> "You don't think no msaa with floating point buffers isn't a huge
>> limitation? There are other color spaces, but they are useless to me. I
>> don't need 8/8/8/8 int. I need 8/8/8/8 float. In RSX's case you have no
>> choice but to use FP16 (16/16/16/16), compared to FP8 on xenon. So you
>> are forced to move around twice the memory on RSX if you want a
>> floating point buffer, which means less framerate. Just try it! I'll
>> assume your a game dev. Switch your PS3 game from FP16 to an 8/8/8/8
>> int format and see your framerate jump. Of course, you'll have to forgo
>> HDR on your shipping title, but you can then do msaa. Or, go back to
>> FP16 since HDR looks so cool, but oh ya, you then have to turn off
>> msaa. I just don't have these headaches on 360, but I have to deal with
>> them PS3."
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>>
>> sounds like he knows what he is talking about and is not bullshitting.
>> everything he is saying fits well with what other developers have been
>> saying for many months, even a year or more.
>>
>
> You're an idot. This is over 6 months old from that lazy programmer. This
> has been known for over a year. He mentions to use the SPU but he's too
> lazy. He talks about other workarounds, but he's too lazy. It's one thing
> to be an idiot like AirRaid, it's another to be an idot fanboy.
>
He was just talking about the respective GPU's. His workarounds don't
use the GPU. >> Stay informed about: PS3-X360 developer spills his experience: ATI Xenos GPU in.. |
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Since: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 484
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:25 am
Post subject: Re: PS3-X360 developer spills his experience: ATI Xenos GPU in X360 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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RMZ wrote:
> Sony put all their focus into the cell processor, it may be "bleeding
> edge", but how much better than the 360 is yet to be determined. The
> first run games look no better than 360 titles. The processing power
> alone is nothing without a quality real-time rendering engine to
> utilize that power. It's up to Sony to meet that challenge and give
> developers the tools to tap into the power of the PS3, so far it sounds
> like they have not. That will be a challenge for them, because it takes
> some really brilliant minds to push the envelope with 3D engine
> technology and in order to do that the engineers must first fully
> understand the hardware.
>
> But In a recent interview one Playstation representative said
> "developers will never fully tap the power of the PS3...", with that
> comment I'm thinking. great, then you'll never need a PS4.
I was fairly astonished by that comment. He said it as if it was a good
thing where instead it essentially confirms the theory that the PS3 is a
bugger to program for. No point in having all that power if noone can
actually use it! >> Stay informed about: PS3-X360 developer spills his experience: ATI Xenos GPU in.. |
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Since: Jul 02, 2006
Posts: 865
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:44 pm
Post subject: Re: PS3-X360 developer spills his experience: ATI Xenos GPU in X360 is superior to Nvidia RSX in PS3 for graphics rendering [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Apr 11, 2004
Posts: 4590
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:13 pm
Post subject: Re: So what? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 2095
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:44 pm
Post subject: Re: So what? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Jonah Falcon wrote:
>
> "Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop DeleteThis @blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:45945876.BEA2F918@blueyonder.co.uk...
> > Android wrote:
> >>
> >> The relative power of a video game system has *never* been the
> >> determining
> >> factor for sales during the past 30 years of gaming.
>
> Yes, but price HAS. How much did the Neo*Geo cost again?
wasn't my post... and that was a machine I could only wonder why
people would spend that kind of money
--
Paul (Need a lift she said much obliged)
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/ >> Stay informed about: PS3-X360 developer spills his experience: ATI Xenos GPU in.. |
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Since: Nov 12, 2006
Posts: 384
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: So what? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Brenden D. Chase wrote:
> "Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop.RemoveThis@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4594C0D5.6B651AC0@blueyonder.co.uk...
> > GT-Force wrote:
> >>
> >> > Did you mean the 360 was trailing???
> >> > http://www.playfuls.com:80/news_05653_Wii_No_1_PS3_No_2_Xbox_360_No3_i...re_Chri
> >>
> >> I'm sure he meant the "overall" sales. Since 360 was out for a long time,
> >> others need time to catch up. The link you provided shows ONLY
> >> pre-christmas
> >> sale numbers, not the TOTAL number of units sold so far. Just an educated
> >> guess though, I do not have time to dig the numbers for you (you do that,
> >> if
> >> you have to). 
> >>
> >> GT
> >
> > But the fanboys would use that as a stick, doesn't matter how exact it
> > is, as long as it backs up their arguments. Pity some of them can't
> > spend more time playing and less time searching for tidbits on the
> > net. (Note is used the tidbits spelling in case any of them got any
> > funny ideas and we had to put up with shaky writing?)
>
> I get Google alert emails for certain subjects, PS3 being one of them. It
> was one of the few headlines talking about sales. I found it interesting
> that Blig hadn't seen it yet and posted it to holy hell, so I used it.
>
> I spend more time playing games than on here now that I've gotten a PS3.
Good for you. Shame your PS2 didn't provide you with much entertainment
before, I just hope the PS3 doesn't go the same way  >> Stay informed about: PS3-X360 developer spills his experience: ATI Xenos GPU in.. |
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Since: Nov 12, 2006
Posts: 384
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:27 pm
Post subject: Re: So what? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Nov 12, 2006
Posts: 384
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(Msg. 28) Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:33 pm
Post subject: Re: So what? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Brenden D. Chase wrote:
> "Sammus McMouldenus" <bigboobs_linda RemoveThis @lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1167438463.534216.245730@k21g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Brenden D. Chase wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Mind fetching me a link for this dumping of consoles?? And what makes
> >> you
> >> think its not just those Ebaying idiots trying to get their monies back??
> >
> > I did earlier, and how exactly are they getting their monies back by
> > exchanging for a Wii?
> >
>
> 1.. An item of value between two parties used for the exchange of goods or
> services.
>
> You don't think that the Wii is valuable?? I'm sure there's got to be some
> store credit coming their way as well... maybe some accessories, etc.
eah, hatever. >> Stay informed about: PS3-X360 developer spills his experience: ATI Xenos GPU in.. |
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Since: Mar 16, 2005
Posts: 594
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(Msg. 29) Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:18 pm
Post subject: Re: So what? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop RemoveThis @blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4594C0D5.6B651AC0@blueyonder.co.uk...
> GT-Force wrote:
>>
>> > Did you mean the 360 was trailing???
>> > http://www.playfuls.com:80/news_05653_Wii_No_1_PS3_No_2_Xbox_360_No3_i...re_Chri
>>
>> I'm sure he meant the "overall" sales. Since 360 was out for a long time,
>> others need time to catch up. The link you provided shows ONLY
>> pre-christmas
>> sale numbers, not the TOTAL number of units sold so far. Just an educated
>> guess though, I do not have time to dig the numbers for you (you do that,
>> if
>> you have to).
>>
>> GT
>
> But the fanboys would use that as a stick, doesn't matter how exact it
> is, as long as it backs up their arguments. Pity some of them can't
> spend more time playing and less time searching for tidbits on the
> net. (Note is used the tidbits spelling in case any of them got any
> funny ideas and we had to put up with shaky writing?)
I get Google alert emails for certain subjects, PS3 being one of them. It
was one of the few headlines talking about sales. I found it interesting
that Blig hadn't seen it yet and posted it to holy hell, so I used it.
I spend more time playing games than on here now that I've gotten a PS3. >> Stay informed about: PS3-X360 developer spills his experience: ATI Xenos GPU in.. |
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Since: Mar 16, 2005
Posts: 594
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(Msg. 30) Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:23 pm
Post subject: Re: So what? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Tom" <noway.TakeThisOut@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:xbGdnSHMFPDxmgjYnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@insightbb.com...
>
> "Tomcat (Tom)" <tom_dallas31.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1167377354.642699.310850@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> GT-Force wrote:
>>> > Did you mean the 360 was trailing???
>>> > http://www.playfuls.com:80/news_05653_Wii_No_1_PS3_No_2_Xbox_360_No3_i...re_Chri
>>>
>>> I'm sure he meant the "overall" sales. Since 360 was out for a long
>>> time,
>>> others need time to catch up. The link you provided shows ONLY
>>> pre-christmas
>>> sale numbers, not the TOTAL number of units sold so far.
>>
>> Also, if I'm reading the article right, it looks like it's only
>> Japanese sales that are being reported. Everybody knows sales in Japan
>> for the Wii and PS3, especially sales shortly after launch, are going
>> to be much higher than the 360.
>>
>
> Yes, that is correct, Branden posted an article regarding Japanese sales
> only. I don't think he realized what the data demographics were. But, if
> the PS3 got as many to the shelves before Xmas as reported, then they will
> have out sold the 360 during its first two months by a very good figure.
> Now, that isn't saying much because MS had big trouble producing them
> enough to keep up for almost the first 4 months. Sony looks like it may be
> doing better at getting the production up for the same period.
To be honest i didnt notice the "japan only" of the figures. I only posted
it as a joke, I wasnt trying to troll it. I didnt even read the article. (i
have now) I read the headline during my morning email routine, and when i
came across Android's post, i throught it in there blindly. I gladly
retract.
> >> Stay informed about: PS3-X360 developer spills his experience: ATI Xenos GPU in.. |
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